Electronics Workbench Version 7

Tom Burns · Dec 22, 2003

To all,

Have any of you formed an opinion of the Electronics Workbench packages?
That would be Multisim, Ultiboard and Ultiroute.

I have an opportunity to get version 7 for a decent price (about $3500.00),
but have not used EWB in the past. I am familiar with OrCAD Capture and
Layout, but they are VERY expensive to own for home use.

I need to be able to draw complex digital schematics and have decent board
layout capabilities for 2 to 8 layer boards with BGA and other common SMT
packages. Forward and back-annotation capability are a must.

It looks like the Power Pro version of the Electronics Workbench tools suite
does this effectively, but it's a fair amount of money to spend without
having used it.

Any comments from you guys??

Thanks
Tom Burns
tomburns@att.net

Active8 · Dec 22, 2003

On Mon, 22 Dec 2003 01:59:07 GMT, tomburns@att.net said...

To all,

Have any of you formed an opinion of the Electronics Workbench packages?
That would be Multisim, Ultiboard and Ultiroute.

I have an opportunity to get version 7 for a decent price (about $3500.00),
but have not used EWB in the past. I am familiar with OrCAD Capture and
Layout, but they are VERY expensive to own for home use.

I need to be able to draw complex digital schematics and have decent board
layout capabilities for 2 to 8 layer boards with BGA and other common SMT
packages. Forward and back-annotation capability are a must.

It looks like the Power Pro version of the Electronics Workbench tools suite
does this effectively, but it's a fair amount of money to spend without
having used it.

Any comments from you guys??

Thanks
Tom Burns
tomburns@att.net

Try the demo first. Beat it hard. I tried (breifly) years ago and

didn't like it. Someone else in this group did like it, so maybe it
isn't so bad.

I hope it works for you.

BRs,
Mike

Duane Hague · Dec 23, 2003

In article <LdsFb.63497$Dt6.1492646@twister.tampabay.rr.com>,
tomburns@att.net says...

To all,

Have any of you formed an opinion of the Electronics Workbench packages?
That would be Multisim, Ultiboard and Ultiroute.

I have an opportunity to get version 7 for a decent price (about $3500.00),
but have not used EWB in the past. I am familiar with OrCAD Capture and
Layout, but they are VERY expensive to own for home use.

I need to be able to draw complex digital schematics and have decent board
layout capabilities for 2 to 8 layer boards with BGA and other common SMT
packages. Forward and back-annotation capability are a must.

It looks like the Power Pro version of the Electronics Workbench tools suite
does this effectively, but it's a fair amount of money to spend without
having used it.

Any comments from you guys??

Thanks
Tom Burns
tomburns@att.net

Be warned, I got slightly burnt on EWB-V6.x almost two years ago.

The final "killer" was when I found that Multisim had an un-documented
300-pin limit on individual drawing symbols. If you want to use the
larger BGAs, check carefully. I must say that they were very good about
a "return & refund".

Good Luck from Duane

Jim Thompson · Dec 23, 2003

On Tue, 23 Dec 2003 00:09:13 GMT, Duane Hague <dhague@neo.rr.com>
wrote:

In article <LdsFb.63497$Dt6.1492646@twister.tampabay.rr.com>,
tomburns@att.net says...
To all,

Have any of you formed an opinion of the Electronics Workbench packages?
That would be Multisim, Ultiboard and Ultiroute.

I have an opportunity to get version 7 for a decent price (about $3500.00),
but have not used EWB in the past. I am familiar with OrCAD Capture and
Layout, but they are VERY expensive to own for home use.

I need to be able to draw complex digital schematics and have decent board
layout capabilities for 2 to 8 layer boards with BGA and other common SMT
packages. Forward and back-annotation capability are a must.

It looks like the Power Pro version of the Electronics Workbench tools suite
does this effectively, but it's a fair amount of money to spend without
having used it.

Any comments from you guys??

Thanks
Tom Burns
tomburns@att.net

Be warned, I got slightly burnt on EWB-V6.x almost two years ago.
The final "killer" was when I found that Multisim had an un-documented
300-pin limit on individual drawing symbols. If you want to use the
larger BGAs, check carefully. I must say that they were very good about
a "return & refund".

Good Luck from Duane

480)460-2350 | |
| E-mail Address at Website Fax

Gary A. Crowell Sr. · Dec 27, 2003

We bought a copy a few years ago, but it sat almost unused/unusable because of
its dongle/limited install security. The dongle only allowed something absurd
like three installs then quits - not worth the trouble messing with it.

Gary Crowell

On Mon, 22 Dec 2003 01:59:07 GMT, "Tom Burns" <tomburns@att.net> wrote:

To all,

Have any of you formed an opinion of the Electronics Workbench packages?
That would be Multisim, Ultiboard and Ultiroute.

I have an opportunity to get version 7 for a decent price (about $3500.00),
but have not used EWB in the past. I am familiar with OrCAD Capture and
Layout, but they are VERY expensive to own for home use.

I need to be able to draw complex digital schematics and have decent board
layout capabilities for 2 to 8 layer boards with BGA and other common SMT
packages. Forward and back-annotation capability are a must.

It looks like the Power Pro version of the Electronics Workbench tools suite
does this effectively, but it's a fair amount of money to spend without
having used it.

Any comments from you guys??

Thanks
Tom Burns
tomburns@att.net

(__ (__ (_____ (______ TM
(__ (__ (__ (__ (__ (__
(__ (__ (__ (__ (__
(__ (__ (__ (________ V1.64
(__ (__ (__ (__
(_____ (____ (__ (__ Freeware CP/CG Calculator
(____ (______ (__ (c)1996 Gary A. Crowell Sr.
vcp@cableone.net
http://myweb.cableone.net/cjcrowell

Tom Burns · Dec 29, 2003

Thanks Gary,

I have that old dongle-based version myself. I wasn't too impressed then
and didn't the program much. But they have changed so much, and added so
many new features. You can import OrCAD files, create microvias, specify
controlled impedance traces, etc. Supposedly do cross-probing from your PCB
layout to the schematic so you can see what effet your board layout is
having on signal integrity for high-speed design.

Oh, and they don't require a dongle anymore.

I went ahead and sprung for the Power Pro package. It should arrive in a
few days. I'll post a message on how it compares to OrCAD Capture and
Layout once I get used to the new version a bit.

Regards,
Tom

<Gary A. Crowell Sr.> wrote in message
news:v7rruvgqgpeiov12h2ipsesnasash4doh6@4ax.com...

We bought a copy a few years ago, but it sat almost unused/unusable
because of
its dongle/limited install security. The dongle only allowed something
absurd
like three installs then quits - not worth the trouble messing with it.

Gary Crowell

On Mon, 22 Dec 2003 01:59:07 GMT, "Tom Burns" <tomburns@att.net> wrote:

To all,

Have any of you formed an opinion of the Electronics Workbench packages?
That would be Multisim, Ultiboard and Ultiroute.

I have an opportunity to get version 7 for a decent price (about
$3500.00),
but have not used EWB in the past. I am familiar with OrCAD Capture and
Layout, but they are VERY expensive to own for home use.

I need to be able to draw complex digital schematics and have decent
board
layout capabilities for 2 to 8 layer boards with BGA and other common SMT
packages. Forward and back-annotation capability are a must.

It looks like the Power Pro version of the Electronics Workbench tools
suite
does this effectively, but it's a fair amount of money to spend without
having used it.

Any comments from you guys??

Thanks
Tom Burns
tomburns@att.net

(__ (__ (_____ (______ TM
(__ (__ (__ (__ (__ (__
(__ (__ (__ (__ (__
(__ (__ (__ (________ V1.64
(__ (__ (__ (__
(_____ (____ (__ (__ Freeware CP/CG Calculator
(____ (______ (__ (c)1996 Gary A. Crowell Sr.
vcp@cableone.net
http://myweb.cableone.net/cjcrowell

Stefan Schmidt · Dec 31, 2003

Hi,

i must say that i am a beginner in the field of simulation.
I saw more times that Multisim is easy to use and i wanted to try it.
So i downloaded the Multisim 7 Demo on their site and i must say that
it is very simple to use and i liked these virtual instruments.
I saw the price of that software and said, wow it must be good for
that money.
On the university, however we have Orcad and i heard that this should
also be very good.
So i thought both are good, but Multisim 7 looks more friendly to me
as a beginner.
So i really wanted to buy this software.
Then one day i had to solve a very easy problem; so i solved it first
on the paper and then i wanted to check what the simulation software
says about that.
I built up the circuit and simulated it, but i got a different voltage
compared to that i calculated.
So i thought either i made a mistake in building up the circuit or I
calculated it wrongly.
I checked the circuit in Multisim 7 more times but everything seemed
to be correct to me.
I checked my calculation with Maple and everything seemed to be
correct.
So i called Electronics Workbench and first they said me it can only
be my mistake than one of their engineers asked me if i could send him
the schematic; so i made a screenshot and sent it.
Next day i got the response that i made the mistake.
Let me first explain you which circuit i am talking about, so you can
follow better.
The circuit consists of a rotary circuit generator (sorry for my
englich if it's wrong); the 3 voltages of the generator are rotating
to the right side and it is a symmetric generator.
after that you have some loads; and the aim is to calculate a voltage.
And because you still don't know how the ciruit looks like one of my
good friends at the unversity made this circuit with Orcad and sent me
the netlist.
He said, the netlist is the best way to describe a circuit.
so here is it:

* source PRCIR
R_R2 N01244 N01268 40
V_V1 N00488 0
+SIN 0 230 50 0 0 0
R_R3 N00525 N01222 160
R_R4 N00980 N01409 80
R_R5 N00960 N01268 20
V_V2 N00525 0
+SIN 0 230 50 0 0 240
C_C1 N01409 N00960 17.683uF
V_V3 N00980 0
+SIN 0 230 50 0 0 120
L_L1 N01222 N01268 0.190986H
R_R1 N00488 N01244 250

And the voltage i want to calculate is the voltage on R1.
My calculation says: the peek value of this voltage after a long time
is 314 V.
But Multisim said sth. about 109V.
So i got the response from Electronics Workbench next day that i made
the mistake and i can't build the circuit the way i did, because i had
to use the implemented rotary current generator from multisim 7 and
then i get the right results.
Then i tried it and i really got the results i calculated but i also
considered that the generator which is implemented in Multisim is left
turning ( with left turning i mean first voltage phase: 0° ; 2.voltage
phase: 120° 3. voltage phase: 240°); So it was not the same circuit i
built up and calculated with Maple.
So i calculated it with Maple for a left turning generator and i got
109 V for
the voltage.
So Multisim 7 gives me 109 V for right turning and 314 V for the left
turning generator over R1.
Maple gives me 314 V for the right turning and 109 V for the left
turning system.
My friend from university with the power of Orcad gives me the same
Maple gives me.
And i give you the netlist and you can build up the circuit in
Multisim and check it; and you can calulate it on your own.
O i forgot to say: I then wrote an email to Electronics Workbench. The
response was: We don't have to show you that our software works.
Everybody uses it so it works. We can't help you more or you pay us
for support.
So i don't like Multisim and i'll dear go to my university and use
Oracad but i won't give money for Multisim.

Have a nice day
Bye

"Tom Burns" <tomburns@att.net> wrote in message news:<LdsFb.63497$Dt6.1492646@twister.tampabay.rr.com>...

To all,

Have any of you formed an opinion of the Electronics Workbench packages?
That would be Multisim, Ultiboard and Ultiroute.

I have an opportunity to get version 7 for a decent price (about $3500.00),
but have not used EWB in the past. I am familiar with OrCAD Capture and
Layout, but they are VERY expensive to own for home use.

I need to be able to draw complex digital schematics and have decent board
layout capabilities for 2 to 8 layer boards with BGA and other common SMT
packages. Forward and back-annotation capability are a must.

It looks like the Power Pro version of the Electronics Workbench tools suite
does this effectively, but it's a fair amount of money to spend without
having used it.

Any comments from you guys??

Thanks
Tom Burns
tomburns@att.net

Chaos Master · Dec 31, 2003

Stefan Schmidt[maxwelleb@hotmail.com] said this in sci.electronics.cad, at 30 Dec
2003 19:04:39 -0800, in article <bc66c9a6.0312301904.7c412073@posting.google.com>.
I can prove it. And thus I reply:

[snip Multisim rant]

So i don't like Multisim and i'll dear go to my university and use
Oracad but i won't give money for Multisim.

http://www.linear.com/ get LTSpice - one of the best simulators - free

or

http://www.catena.uk.com/ SIMetrix - excellent software, expensive (starts at U$$
2500 last time I checked - and that's for the version without IC design support)
and somewhat buggy (sometimes, it loses communication between interface/simulator)
but demo allows you to do quite big circuits. Just get some models (e.g.
Zetex/Philips/TI libs), load them and you're ready to go.

or

http://www.anasoft.co.uk/ SuperSpice - also very good.

PS: I have NO, NONE, ZERO, 00000, 0.000, 0E+00, 0d0+0, ZIP, ZILCH, NENHUMA,
NINGUŃA, NOP, NOPE, relations to any software/device manufacturer.

--
ChaosŽ - posting from Brazil
Please ask for e-mail address.

Kevin Aylward · Dec 31, 2003

Stefan Schmidt wrote:

Hi,

So Multisim 7 gives me 109 V for right turning and 314 V for the left
turning generator over R1.
Maple gives me 314 V for the right turning and 109 V for the left
turning system.
My friend from university with the power of Orcad gives me the same
Maple gives me.
And i give you the netlist and you can build up the circuit in
Multisim and check it; and you can calulate it on your own.
O i forgot to say: I then wrote an email to Electronics Workbench. The
response was: We don't have to show you that our software works.
Everybody uses it so it works. We can't help you more or you pay us
for support.

If you want free support, by a real analogue design engineer, then I
will suggest the obvious, SuperSpice

http://www.anasoft.co.uk

Kevin Aylward
salesEXTRACT@anasoft.co.uk
http://www.anasoft.co.uk
SuperSpice, a very affordable Mixed-Mode
Windows Simulator with Schematic Capture,
Waveform Display, FFT's and Filter Design.

That which is mostly observed, is that which replicates the most.
http://www.anasoft.co.uk/replicators/index.html

Electronics Workbench Version 7

Tom Burns

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Active8

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Duane Hague

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Jim Thompson

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Gary A. Crowell Sr.

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Tom Burns

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Stefan Schmidt

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Chaos Master

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Kevin Aylward

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