Electronic Challenge Help Requested

[ABLE1]

Hello all,



Not sure how much activity is in this group so this is a test
posting. I have an electronic challenge and was wondering if there
was anyone in here that would like to brainstorm a bit to find a
resolve.



What I have is a exterior flood light motion detector head. When
the output is connected to the bulbs(resistance) the output is
zero(0). When not connected to the bulbs the output is 120vac. I
believe this because the motion is using a triac or similar device.
I need a way or component that will make the output a zero(0)vac and
upon activation will allow the output to goes HI at 120vac.



The reason is that I am trying to control the lights two different
ways. One thru a automation device and the other thru the motion
detector.



The automation device has a sensing input. In other words it just
needs a voltage input at 120vac to then turn on the output to the
lights. However because of the configuration of the motion detector
it needs to see the resistance of the bulbs to keep the output at
zero(0) voltage. Without this resistance value the output is
120vac. This 120vac voltage then triggers the input of the
automation module and turns on the lights and they will not turn
off.



What I think I am looking for is some sort of device that I can
install on the output of the motion detector to ground or neutral
that will make it think it sees the bulbs and put the voltage at
zero(0)vac. Then when the motion trips it will need to handle
120vac at 20 amps so that the voltage can go HI and can be seen by
the automation device.



Anyone know a proper device that can do this and be small enough to
fit into the electrical box behind the fixture??



Thanks in advance input.



Les

 

[Phil Allison]

"ABLE1"

What I have is a exterior flood light motion detector head. When the
output is connected to the bulbs(resistance) the output is zero(0). When
not connected to the bulbs the output is 120vac. I believe this because
the motion is using a triac or similar device.

** Your wording is very confused.

Does " not connected to the bulbs " = there are no bulbs installed ??

I need a way or component that will make the output a zero(0)vac and upon
activation will allow the output to goes HI at 120vac.

** Install some bulbs maybe ?

God knows WTF you are on about.


.... Phil

 

[ABLE1]

"Phil Allison" <phil_a@tpg.com.au> wrote in message
news:9sieoaFentU1@mid.individual.net...

"ABLE1"

What I have is a exterior flood light motion detector head. When
the output is connected to the bulbs(resistance) the output is
zero(0). When not connected to the bulbs the output is 120vac.
I believe this because the motion is using a triac or similar
device.


** Your wording is very confused.

Does " not connected to the bulbs " = there are no bulbs
installed ??


I need a way or component that will make the output a zero(0)vac
and upon activation will allow the output to goes HI at 120vac.


** Install some bulbs maybe ?

God knows WTF you are on about.


... Phil

Phil, thanks for the response.

Very sorry for the confusion. I just tired and stressed, so I do
apologize. It is difficult to type out this issue since it does not
conform with the norm. I will attempt to clarify. If I knew more
about the internal circuitry of the motion head I might not be
asking the question or could explain it better.

This motion head does NOT have a conventional open contact relay.
When bulbs are installed and the unit is powered up the output to
the bulbs is at zero(0). If the bulbs are not connected or
installed the output is 120vac. I am trying to install a device
that that will be connected to bulbs to control the on/off function.
The output of the motion must be at zero(0) when all is stable, then
when motion is detected a 120vac output would trigger the device to
turn on the lights thru a sensing input. Since the output of the
motion is already at 120vac when the bulbs are NOT connected the
lights turn on and stay on.

What I am looking for is a device or component that could be tapped
into the output of the motion and connected to neutral that would
keep the output at zero(0) until motion is detected. In other words
trick the circuitry to make the output at zero(0).

I really don't know how else to explain. I am more of a hands on
person and as such have difficulty trying to explain by typing. If
I still have you confused please tell me where and I will try and
fill in the blanks.

Thanks for any help.

Les

 

[Peter Bennett]

On Sat, 17 Mar 2012 10:46:00 -0400, "ABLE1"
<royboynospam@somewhere.net> wrote:

Very sorry for the confusion. I just tired and stressed, so I do
apologize. It is difficult to type out this issue since it does not
conform with the norm. I will attempt to clarify. If I knew more
about the internal circuitry of the motion head I might not be
asking the question or could explain it better.

This motion head does NOT have a conventional open contact relay.
When bulbs are installed and the unit is powered up the output to
the bulbs is at zero(0). If the bulbs are not connected or
installed the output is 120vac. I am trying to install a device
that that will be connected to bulbs to control the on/off function.
The output of the motion must be at zero(0) when all is stable, then
when motion is detected a 120vac output would trigger the device to
turn on the lights thru a sensing input. Since the output of the
motion is already at 120vac when the bulbs are NOT connected the
lights turn on and stay on.

What I am looking for is a device or component that could be tapped
into the output of the motion and connected to neutral that would
keep the output at zero(0) until motion is detected. In other words
trick the circuitry to make the output at zero(0).

I really don't know how else to explain. I am more of a hands on
person and as such have difficulty trying to explain by typing. If
I still have you confused please tell me where and I will try and
fill in the blanks.

Thanks for any help.

Les

The voltage that you see when no bulb is connected is just "leakage" -
there may be enough leakage current to make your meter read 120V, but
if you put any significant load (resistor, relay coil, etc.) on the
device, the output voltage should go to zero (or close).


--
Peter Bennett, VE7CEI
peterbb (at) telus.net
GPS and NMEA info: http://vancouver-webpages.com/peter
Vancouver Power Squadron: http://vancouver.powersquadron.ca

 

[ABLE1]

"Peter Bennett" <peterbb@somewhere.invalid> wrote in message
news:d0f9m7hv48cjm0ph0ir69udf7dulld6bav@news.supernews.com...

On Sat, 17 Mar 2012 10:46:00 -0400, "ABLE1"
royboynospam@somewhere.net> wrote:



Very sorry for the confusion. I just tired and stressed, so I do
apologize. It is difficult to type out this issue since it does
not
conform with the norm. I will attempt to clarify. If I knew more
about the internal circuitry of the motion head I might not be
asking the question or could explain it better.

This motion head does NOT have a conventional open contact relay.
When bulbs are installed and the unit is powered up the output to
the bulbs is at zero(0). If the bulbs are not connected or
installed the output is 120vac. I am trying to install a device
that that will be connected to bulbs to control the on/off
function.
The output of the motion must be at zero(0) when all is stable,
then
when motion is detected a 120vac output would trigger the device
to
turn on the lights thru a sensing input. Since the output of the
motion is already at 120vac when the bulbs are NOT connected the
lights turn on and stay on.

What I am looking for is a device or component that could be
tapped
into the output of the motion and connected to neutral that would
keep the output at zero(0) until motion is detected. In other
words
trick the circuitry to make the output at zero(0).

I really don't know how else to explain. I am more of a hands on
person and as such have difficulty trying to explain by typing.
If
I still have you confused please tell me where and I will try and
fill in the blanks.

Thanks for any help.

Les

The voltage that you see when no bulb is connected is just
"leakage" -
there may be enough leakage current to make your meter read 120V,
but
if you put any significant load (resistor, relay coil, etc.) on
the
device, the output voltage should go to zero (or close).


--
Peter Bennett, VE7CEI
peterbb (at) telus.net
GPS and NMEA info: http://vancouver-webpages.com/peter
Vancouver Power Squadron: http://vancouver.powersquadron.ca

Peter,

I agree it is leakage and to do as you suggest. However, my concern
would be to place the correct device or value to pull the voltage to
zero. I need a device at some value that will not pop when full
voltage is applied when motion is detected. The "leakage" voltage
presently is enough to show up on my meter as well as to trigger the
input to the module. What I was thinking was some sort of diode or
resistor, but it is the rating that concerns me. What would be the
recommendation?? I plan on doing some experimentation but need a
starting point.

Thanks for the input.

Les

 

[Winston]

Peter Bennett wrote:

On Sat, 17 Mar 2012 10:46:00 -0400, "ABLE1"
royboynospam@somewhere.net> wrote:

(...)

The voltage that you see when no bulb is connected is just "leakage" -
there may be enough leakage current to make your meter read 120V, but
if you put any significant load (resistor, relay coil, etc.) on the
device, the output voltage should go to zero (or close).

Hey Les:

I normally use the term 'bulb' and 'light' to mean the
same thing.

If you tell me the bulb turns on, I know you mean that
the bulb, lamp, indicator, light, lightbulb, filament,
illuminator, light source has gone from a state of
darkness to one of light.

The phase that confuses the heck out of me is:

Since the output of the motion is already at 120vac
when the bulbs are NOT connected the
lights turn on and stay on."

It would be very helpful if you would provide a
link to the actual unit you are using and point
out which part of it is the 'bulb' and which part
is the 'light'.

Your phrase above indicates to me that if you remove
the bulbs from the circuit, they begin glowing brightly
when motion is detected. This is outside my experience.
I think we are separated by a common language.


--Winston

 

[Tom Biasi]

On Sat, 17 Mar 2012 14:09:29 -0400, "ABLE1"
<royboynospam@somewhere.net> wrote:

"Peter Bennett" <peterbb@somewhere.invalid> wrote in message
news:d0f9m7hv48cjm0ph0ir69udf7dulld6bav@news.supernews.com...
On Sat, 17 Mar 2012 10:46:00 -0400, "ABLE1"
royboynospam@somewhere.net> wrote:



Very sorry for the confusion. I just tired and stressed, so I do
apologize. It is difficult to type out this issue since it does
not
conform with the norm. I will attempt to clarify. If I knew more
about the internal circuitry of the motion head I might not be
asking the question or could explain it better.

This motion head does NOT have a conventional open contact relay.
When bulbs are installed and the unit is powered up the output to
the bulbs is at zero(0). If the bulbs are not connected or
installed the output is 120vac. I am trying to install a device
that that will be connected to bulbs to control the on/off
function.
The output of the motion must be at zero(0) when all is stable,
then
when motion is detected a 120vac output would trigger the device
to
turn on the lights thru a sensing input. Since the output of the
motion is already at 120vac when the bulbs are NOT connected the
lights turn on and stay on.

What I am looking for is a device or component that could be
tapped
into the output of the motion and connected to neutral that would
keep the output at zero(0) until motion is detected. In other
words
trick the circuitry to make the output at zero(0).

I really don't know how else to explain. I am more of a hands on
person and as such have difficulty trying to explain by typing.
If
I still have you confused please tell me where and I will try and
fill in the blanks.

Thanks for any help.

Les

The voltage that you see when no bulb is connected is just
"leakage" -
there may be enough leakage current to make your meter read 120V,
but
if you put any significant load (resistor, relay coil, etc.) on
the
device, the output voltage should go to zero (or close).


--
Peter Bennett, VE7CEI
peterbb (at) telus.net
GPS and NMEA info: http://vancouver-webpages.com/peter
Vancouver Power Squadron: http://vancouver.powersquadron.ca


Peter,

I agree it is leakage and to do as you suggest. However, my concern
would be to place the correct device or value to pull the voltage to
zero. I need a device at some value that will not pop when full
voltage is applied when motion is detected. The "leakage" voltage
presently is enough to show up on my meter as well as to trigger the
input to the module. What I was thinking was some sort of diode or
resistor, but it is the rating that concerns me. What would be the
recommendation?? I plan on doing some experimentation but need a
starting point.

Thanks for the input.

Les

The way I interpret what you are asking is you want the bulb socket at
zero volts when the unit is in on state but not triggered. Put a 120
VAC relay coil across the bulb input and the output will be zero until
triggered and then go to 120 VAC and pull in the relay.
Maybe you could explain why you need this condition.

Tom

 

[Baron]

Winston Inscribed thus:

Peter Bennett wrote:
On Sat, 17 Mar 2012 10:46:00 -0400, "ABLE1"
royboynospam@somewhere.net> wrote:

(...)

The voltage that you see when no bulb is connected is just "leakage"
- there may be enough leakage current to make your meter read 120V,
but if you put any significant load (resistor, relay coil, etc.) on
the device, the output voltage should go to zero (or close).

Hey Les:

I normally use the term 'bulb' and 'light' to mean the
same thing.

If you tell me the bulb turns on, I know you mean that
the bulb, lamp, indicator, light, lightbulb, filament,
illuminator, light source has gone from a state of
darkness to one of light.

The phase that confuses the heck out of me is:
Since the output of the motion is already at 120vac
when the bulbs are NOT connected the
lights turn on and stay on."

It would be very helpful if you would provide a
link to the actual unit you are using and point
out which part of it is the 'bulb' and which part
is the 'light'.

Your phrase above indicates to me that if you remove
the bulbs from the circuit, they begin glowing brightly
when motion is detected. This is outside my experience.
I think we are separated by a common language.


--Winston

He could have a faulty unit and looking to fix it !

--
Best Regards:
Baron.

 

[ABLE1]

The phase that confuses the heck out of me is:
Since the output of the motion is already at 120vac
when the bulbs are NOT connected the
lights turn on and stay on."

It would be very helpful if you would provide a
link to the actual unit you are using and point
out which part of it is the 'bulb' and which part
is the 'light'.

Your phrase above indicates to me that if you remove
the bulbs from the circuit, they begin glowing brightly
when motion is detected. This is outside my experience.
I think we are separated by a common language.


--Winston

He could have a faulty unit and looking to fix it !

--
Best Regards:
Baron.

Tom, Winston, Baron,

Again sorry for any confusion. I agree terminologies may be part of
the problem here. It really does make sense to me, really.

Here is a .pdf of the Outside Motion Head that turns ON Flood Lights
at night.

http://www.rabweb.com/downloads/instructions/stl110.pdf

Look at page 5, it shows the wiring configuration. In it's present
condition the unit works just fine. What I am trying to do is
utilize a automation device to turn ON the lights when a the alarm
system goes into alarm.

This is the quick start guide for the automation device. See page
2.
http://www.smarthome.com/manuals/2475S2qsg.pdf

This set up works just fine with most motion heads. Since the sense
input to the module will see a zero volts due to it being connected
thru a open contact of a relay.

However with the above motion head it has this sneak voltage leak
that when connected turns on the module. I am looking for a work
around to make this work.

Again, I think I need some component of some value that would get
installed between the output of the motion detector and neutral to
pull down the voltage to zero vac. What would be that component??
I have a space restriction so installing a 120vac relay or coil
won't work.

I hope this makes more sense now. Thanks for all the thoughts. I
know someone in here know the answer to the question just having
trouble spelling out the question.

Thanks again,

Les

 

[ABLE1]

"Jamie" <jamie_ka1lpa_not_valid_after_ka1lpa_@charter.net> wrote in
message news:Xq79r.17139$Ic5.2911@newsfe01.iad...

ABLE1 wrote:


"Phil Allison" <phil_a@tpg.com.au> wrote in message
news:9sieoaFentU1@mid.individual.net...


"ABLE1"

What I have is a exterior flood light motion detector head.
When the output is connected to the bulbs(resistance) the
output is zero(0). When not connected to the bulbs the output
is 120vac. I believe this because the motion is using a triac
or similar device.



** Your wording is very confused.

Does " not connected to the bulbs " = there are no bulbs
installed ??


I need a way or component that will make the output a
zero(0)vac and upon activation will allow the output to goes HI
at 120vac.



** Install some bulbs maybe ?

God knows WTF you are on about.


... Phil



Phil, thanks for the response.

Very sorry for the confusion. I just tired and stressed, so I do
apologize. It is difficult to type out this issue since it does
not conform with the norm. I will attempt to clarify. If I knew
more about the internal circuitry of the motion head I might not
be asking the question or could explain it better.

This motion head does NOT have a conventional open contact relay.
When bulbs are installed and the unit is powered up the output to
the bulbs is at zero(0). If the bulbs are not connected or
installed the output is 120vac. I am trying to install a device
that that will be connected to bulbs to control the on/off
function. The output of the motion must be at zero(0) when all is
stable, then when motion is detected a 120vac output would
trigger the device to turn on the lights thru a sensing input.
Since the output of the motion is already at 120vac when the
bulbs are NOT connected the lights turn on and stay on.

What I am looking for is a device or component that could be
tapped into the output of the motion and connected to neutral
that would keep the output at zero(0) until motion is detected.
In other words trick the circuitry to make the output at zero(0).

I really don't know how else to explain. I am more of a hands on
person and as such have difficulty trying to explain by typing.
If I still have you confused please tell me where and I will try
and fill in the blanks.

Thanks for any help.

Les

Your problem is simple.
THe device most likely has a Triac or something of that nature
with components, most likely a snubber, that is passing the signal
to your meter or device. You need to simply place a load on the
output.

Myself, I would just stick a 120v coiled relay on the output and
then
use the dry contacts of that relay to operate the device..

Jamie

Jamie, Thanks for the response. I agree but I have a space
restriction. I have filled up the box already with the module and a
120 volt relay will not fit, unless it is very small. That is why I
am looking for some component to do the job. Something that can
handle the voltage when the motion turns on. Any extra thoughts??

Les

 

[Jamie]

ABLE1 wrote:

"Phil Allison" <phil_a@tpg.com.au> wrote in message
news:9sieoaFentU1@mid.individual.net...


"ABLE1"

What I have is a exterior flood light motion detector head. When the
output is connected to the bulbs(resistance) the output is zero(0).
When not connected to the bulbs the output is 120vac. I believe this
because the motion is using a triac or similar device.



** Your wording is very confused.

Does " not connected to the bulbs " = there are no bulbs installed ??


I need a way or component that will make the output a zero(0)vac and
upon activation will allow the output to goes HI at 120vac.



** Install some bulbs maybe ?

God knows WTF you are on about.


... Phil



Phil, thanks for the response.

Very sorry for the confusion. I just tired and stressed, so I do
apologize. It is difficult to type out this issue since it does not
conform with the norm. I will attempt to clarify. If I knew more about
the internal circuitry of the motion head I might not be asking the
question or could explain it better.

This motion head does NOT have a conventional open contact relay. When
bulbs are installed and the unit is powered up the output to the bulbs
is at zero(0). If the bulbs are not connected or installed the output
is 120vac. I am trying to install a device that that will be connected
to bulbs to control the on/off function. The output of the motion must
be at zero(0) when all is stable, then when motion is detected a 120vac
output would trigger the device to turn on the lights thru a sensing
input. Since the output of the motion is already at 120vac when the
bulbs are NOT connected the lights turn on and stay on.

What I am looking for is a device or component that could be tapped into
the output of the motion and connected to neutral that would keep the
output at zero(0) until motion is detected. In other words trick the
circuitry to make the output at zero(0).

I really don't know how else to explain. I am more of a hands on person
and as such have difficulty trying to explain by typing. If I still
have you confused please tell me where and I will try and fill in the
blanks.

Thanks for any help.

Les

Your problem is simple.
THe device most likely has a Triac or something of that nature with
components, most likely a snubber, that is passing the signal to your
meter or device. You need to simply place a load on the output.

Myself, I would just stick a 120v coiled relay on the output and then
use the dry contacts of that relay to operate the device..

Jamie

 

[Winston]

ABLE1 wrote:

The phase that confuses the heck out of me is:
Since the output of the motion is already at 120vac
when the bulbs are NOT connected the
lights turn on and stay on."

It would be very helpful if you would provide a
link to the actual unit you are using and point
out which part of it is the 'bulb' and which part
is the 'light'.

Your phrase above indicates to me that if you remove
the bulbs from the circuit, they begin glowing brightly
when motion is detected. This is outside my experience.
I think we are separated by a common language.


--Winston

He could have a faulty unit and looking to fix it !

--
Best Regards:
Baron.

Tom, Winston, Baron,

Again sorry for any confusion. I agree terminologies may be part of the problem here. It really does make sense to me,
really.

Here is a .pdf of the Outside Motion Head that turns ON Flood Lights at night.

http://www.rabweb.com/downloads/instructions/stl110.pdf

Look at page 5, it shows the wiring configuration. In it's present condition the unit works just fine. What I am trying
to do is utilize a automation device to turn ON the lights when a the alarm system goes into alarm.

Let me see if I have this right.

You have a PIR motion detection head installed and it works properly.
It's this one, wired as shown:
http://www.rabweb.com/downloads/instructions/stl110.pdf

You would like to connect an In-LineLincTM Relay - INSTEONŽ On/Off Module
(This one http://www.smarthome.com/manuals/2475S2qsg.pdf .....
so that it controls your flood lights (through the PIR head) in response to
a carrier current signal from a security system sorta like this one:
<http://www.smarthome.com/128301D/INSTEON-Compatible-Elk-M1-Gold-Kit-and-ISY-99i-Controller-with-Dual-Band-INSTEON-Interface/p.aspx>

You have measured between neutral and the red pigtail *output* of the
PIR motion detection head and discovered 120 VAC is present when
there is no lamp connected between this *output* and neutral.
You've also found that when a slave lamp is connected between this
*output* and neutral, there is virtually no voltage powering the
slave lamp until the PIR head is activated, at which time 120 VAC
causes the slave lamp to illuminate.

Your question:
"I want to connect the *output* of my PIR motion detection head to the
*input* of my _In-LineLincTM Relay - INSTEONŽ On/Off Module_ in
such a way that the _Module_ controls the power to the PIR motion
detection head, somehow. How do I do that?"

Based on this information, I suggest that you connect your _Module_
so that *its* output powers your PIR floodlight fixture as shown in
the instructions. But first, clip and tape the secondary red wire
from the *output* of your PIR motion sensor in such a way that it
never comes into contact with anything again.


Do I have that right?



--Winston

 

[ABLE1]

"Winston" <Winston@Bigbrother.net> wrote in message
news:jk34am01msa@news4.newsguy.com...

ABLE1 wrote:
The phase that confuses the heck out of me is:
Since the output of the motion is already at 120vac
when the bulbs are NOT connected the
lights turn on and stay on."

It would be very helpful if you would provide a
link to the actual unit you are using and point
out which part of it is the 'bulb' and which part
is the 'light'.

Your phrase above indicates to me that if you remove
the bulbs from the circuit, they begin glowing brightly
when motion is detected. This is outside my experience.
I think we are separated by a common language.


--Winston

He could have a faulty unit and looking to fix it !

--
Best Regards:
Baron.

Tom, Winston, Baron,

Again sorry for any confusion. I agree terminologies may be part
of the problem here. It really does make sense to me,
really.

Here is a .pdf of the Outside Motion Head that turns ON Flood
Lights at night.

http://www.rabweb.com/downloads/instructions/stl110.pdf

Look at page 5, it shows the wiring configuration. In it's
present condition the unit works just fine. What I am trying
to do is utilize a automation device to turn ON the lights when a
the alarm system goes into alarm.

Let me see if I have this right.

You have a PIR motion detection head installed and it works
properly.
It's this one, wired as shown:
http://www.rabweb.com/downloads/instructions/stl110.pdf

You would like to connect an In-LineLincTM Relay - INSTEONŽ On/Off
Module
(This one http://www.smarthome.com/manuals/2475S2qsg.pdf .....
so that it controls your flood lights (through the PIR head) in
response to
a carrier current signal from a security system sorta like this
one:
http://www.smarthome.com/128301D/INSTEON-Compatible-Elk-M1-Gold-Kit-and-ISY-99i-Controller-with-Dual-Band-INSTEON-Interface/p.aspx

You have measured between neutral and the red pigtail *output* of
the
PIR motion detection head and discovered 120 VAC is present when
there is no lamp connected between this *output* and neutral.
You've also found that when a slave lamp is connected between this
*output* and neutral, there is virtually no voltage powering the
slave lamp until the PIR head is activated, at which time 120 VAC
causes the slave lamp to illuminate.

Your question:
"I want to connect the *output* of my PIR motion detection head to
the
*input* of my _In-LineLincTM Relay - INSTEONŽ On/Off Module_ in
such a way that the _Module_ controls the power to the PIR motion
detection head, somehow. How do I do that?"

Based on this information, I suggest that you connect your
_Module_
so that *its* output powers your PIR floodlight fixture as shown
in
the instructions. But first, clip and tape the secondary red wire
from the *output* of your PIR motion sensor in such a way that it
never comes into contact with anything again.


Do I have that right?



--Winston

Almost Winston. You had it all quite well until you got to here.

Your question:
"I want to connect the *output* of my PIR motion detection head to
the
*input* of my _In-LineLincTM Relay - INSTEONŽ On/Off Module_ in
such a way that the _Module_ controls the power to the PIR motion
detection head, somehow. How do I do that?"

Based on this information, I suggest that you connect your
_Module_
so that *its* output powers your PIR floodlight fixture as shown
in
the instructions. But first, clip and tape the secondary red wire
from the *output* of your PIR motion sensor in such a way that it
never comes into contact with anything again.

The module and the motion need to have power all the time. The
Flood Lights will be powered by through the module only when the
alarm system is triggered by the means of a Line Carrier Signal and
the motion head when it triggers the Sense wire of the module. The
motion head will only trigger at night due to a photo cell but that
has nothing to do with the problem.

It is this leakage voltage that is the problem.

Thanks for the input. We are getting closer.

Les

 

[Winston]

Winston wrote:

(Some nonsense blather about the instructions being correct.)

Let me try again. The instructions are not correct.

Step one. Snip off and insulate the secondary red wire from
your PIR floodlight. It will not be used for anything.

Step two. Disconnect the black wire from your PIR flood
light from the wall switch or hot wire that powers it now.

Step three. Connect your _Module_ as shown in its diagram
except that the red switched wire from the _Module_ should
connect to the black wire that used to power the PIR
sensor.

Step four. Turn the breaker back on and test everything.

My apologies for leaping to the conclusion that the
instructions were right.

--Winston

 

[Winston]

ABLE1 wrote:

(...)

Thanks for the input. We are getting closer.

OK. Short answer is to replace your PIR motion sensor with
one that allows you to connect separate power to the lamps
it normally drives and the wire to detect PIR sensing,
as shown in the instructions.

(Blush)

--Winston

 

[ABLE1]

"Winston" <Winston@Bigbrother.net> wrote in message
news:jk35k0034b@news3.newsguy.com...

Winston wrote:

(Some nonsense blather about the instructions being correct.)

Let me try again. The instructions are not correct.

Step one. Snip off and insulate the secondary red wire from
your PIR floodlight. It will not be used for anything.

Step two. Disconnect the black wire from your PIR flood
light from the wall switch or hot wire that powers it now.

Step three. Connect your _Module_ as shown in its diagram
except that the red switched wire from the _Module_ should
connect to the black wire that used to power the PIR
sensor.

Step four. Turn the breaker back on and test everything.

My apologies for leaping to the conclusion that the
instructions were right.

--Winston

Winston,

If I follow your instructions then when power is first applied
nothing will happen. Then when the sun goes down since the motion
head has no power the lights won't turn on. The only time the
lights will come on is when the module is activated which will be
when the alarm system goes into alarm. This is not the action that
I am looking for.

As for replacing the motion heads with a different model. That is
not a good option since the current units (7 ea.) are new and paid
for by the customer.

Thanks for the thoughts but I think that is the wrong path.

Les

 

[Winston]

ABLE1 wrote:

(...)

If I follow your instructions then when power is first applied nothing will happen. Then when the sun goes down since
the motion head has no power the lights won't turn on. The only time the lights will come on is when the module is
activated which will be when the alarm system goes into alarm. This is not the action that I am looking for.

As for replacing the motion heads with a different model. That is not a good option since the current units (7 ea.) are
new and paid for by the customer.

Thanks for the thoughts but I think that is the wrong path.

Can you write a macro for the system that cycles power on
at the floodlight control as default, then 'off' and 'on'
a couple times to command 'on' during alarm?

--Winston

 

[Winston]

Winston wrote:

(...)

Can you write a macro for the system that cycles power on
at the floodlight control as default, then 'off' and 'on'
a couple times to command 'on' during alarm?

--Winston

If
Control '07.D5.27.1' is switched Off
Then
Set '07.D5.27.1' On

Else
If AlarmIn
Set '07.D5.27.1' Off
Set '07.D5.27.1' On
Set '07.D5.27.1' Off
Set '07.D5.27.1' On

Sorta like that?
Yes I pulled the sense 'AlarmIn' out of my....hat.

--Winston

 

[ABLE1]

"Winston" <Winston@Bigbrother.net> wrote in message
news:jk3a0v07cf@news3.newsguy.com...

Winston wrote:

(...)

Can you write a macro for the system that cycles power on
at the floodlight control as default, then 'off' and 'on'
a couple times to command 'on' during alarm?

--Winston

If
Control '07.D5.27.1' is switched Off
Then
Set '07.D5.27.1' On

Else
If AlarmIn
Set '07.D5.27.1' Off
Set '07.D5.27.1' On
Set '07.D5.27.1' Off
Set '07.D5.27.1' On

Sorta like that?
Yes I pulled the sense 'AlarmIn' out of my....hat.

--Winston

No the panel is not a Elk M1 so macros are not possible. I only
have a relay output that I can program to change state when there is
an alarm. This would then send a dry input to a controller module
which sends out a Line Carrier signal to turn on the modules. I
know you are thinking on this issue.

I believe it really needs some kind of load that can be place inside
the box to pull the voltage leak down to zero. Doing that will
solve the problem. I may start searching for a extra small relay
that will operate at 120vac. This will do the trick but getting it
to fit will be the problem.

Again thanks,

Les

 

[Winston]

ABLE1 wrote:

(...)

No the panel is not a Elk M1 so macros are not possible. I only have a relay output that I can program to change state
when there is an alarm. This would then send a dry input to a controller module which sends out a Line Carrier signal to
turn on the modules. I know you are thinking on this issue.

I believe it really needs some kind of load that can be place inside the box to pull the voltage leak down to zero.

Let's say you leave your PIR light connected as is but you place your new relay
coil between the red wire PIR head *output* and neutral.

Now the relay will turn on any time the PIR light turns on.

How do you connect the contacts so that your Module controls your existing
PIR light, as if it is in series with the wall switch?

I don't understand the plan here.


--Winston