Electronic CAD

[Jamie]

I know that dedicated Electronic Cad applications already
exists out there and one seems to be popular around here and that is
"OrCad".
I know that we don't need another Cad program like many would
say how ever, i am a very dedicated Delphi/VC++ etc windows programmer
and do know the GDI insideOut. And i get by designing
electronics of what ever i need when the time comes. i am not saying
that i am an expert in the field but have done some very interesting
things over the years.
I have an Application that i have been tweaking for some 3 years
now that i use for my self when creating schematics, PC board lay outs
and enclosure layouts with templates all in one.
Now i don't have a lot of LIB symbol info currently but add (design)
as i go along..
I have been noticing that few here are always looking for LIB's
of components? i take it that it must be kind of difficult for some to
design their own or maybe its not inherently made in the app they are
using?
in any case lately i have been working on my App to make it very
simple to edit and create new components to add to a LIB and make it
shareable for others to use. with graphical help and the works..

I would be interested in getting some input on where people's minds
are base on their current tools of Cad used for electronic work?
List of Ideas that you can feed me, options that it should support?
i most likely have the most generic options in there now but i would
love to hear more
P.S.
my app is designed in such a way i am memory conscience and
resource conscience. this means your PC should not get loaded down or have
snail crawling problems when its operating! at least it works ok here
on my PC's
Thanks..

 

[Chaos Master]

Eu năo acredito que Jamie escreveu:

I have been noticing that few here are always looking for LIB's
of components? i take it that it must be kind of difficult for some to
design their own or maybe its not inherently made in the app they are
using?

Because it takes time to create a symbol. And time is money!

I would be interested in getting some input on where people's minds
are base on their current tools of Cad used for electronic work?
List of Ideas that you can feed me, options that it should support?
i most likely have the most generic options in there now but i would
love to hear more
P.S.

Some ideas:

- Built-in simulation resources (SPICE) so you can create the design and simulate
it without opening other programs.
- Gerber file generation (for PCB manufacturing)

my app is designed in such a way i am memory conscience and
resource conscience. this means your PC should not get loaded down or have
snail crawling problems when its operating! at least it works ok here
on my PC's

I use EAGLE for most of my PCB/schematics needs and it works fine on my old
Pentium 200 machine.

--
by Chaos MasterŽ - MSN: wizard_of_Yendor@hotmail.com

"A Elbereth Gilthoniel, silivren penna miriel o menel aglar elenath!
Na-chaered palan-diriel o galadhremmin ennorath,
Fanuilos, le linnathon nef aear, si nef aearon!" - The Lord of the Rings

Linux User #327480 / GNU-Win32 / Cygwin / Win98 + LiteStep

 

[Active8]

On Wed, 25 Feb 2004 14:24:35 -0800, jamie_5_not_valid_after_5
_Please@charter.net said...

I know that dedicated Electronic Cad applications already
exists out there and one seems to be popular around here and that is
"OrCad".

Probably because it does so much and in it's DOS days it didn't
have as many problems.

I know that we don't need another Cad program like many would
say how ever, i am a very dedicated Delphi/VC++ etc windows programmer
and do know the GDI insideOut.

Then install JS Pager on your machine and try your app. JS Pager is
a little deal that Virtualizes the desktop into up to 256 desktops.
Some apps foul things up. One of OrCAD Layout's windows ( I think
it's the session window. The first one that comes up, not the
design window) likes to jump to the current desktop when you
switch. It's not doing it now, but I've been leaving it maximized
(Layout never remembers it's window settings.) I don't like that,
It's really a useless, well, uneccesary window but if it's not
maximized, I have to click on the desktop before changing to a
different desktop or the session (maybe the design) window follows
me to that desktop. PITA.

Acrobat Reader... open a new file from explorer and I can watch the
reader jump to another desktop in the JS Pager monitor, jump around
a bit, dissapear and then reappear, sometimes on a different
desktop.

Gravity news reader (I'm changing to 40tude)... it'll dissapear
from *all* desktops, and if you don't kill it, it'll remember it's
position which is in the void way outside the maximun screen
coordinates, and even registry hacking won't get it back 'cause
IIRC the friggin' keys aren't self-explanatory. Sometimes using
keyboard shortcuts to activate "move" in the system menu works, but
if the app isn't responding, forget it.

Those 3 probs are due in part to the winders OS's mamory
mismanagement - or so it seems since the last 2 are more likely to
occur when I have a lot of apps open - but other apps don't have
the same problems.

Also check if certain events cause the winders start menu to fly
out. I like mine hidden and I'd rather hear an audible alert when a
process is finished. One problem I've had with my own C++ apps is
that just closing an app sometimes causes the winders start menu to
fly out. Lots of other apps do this, but I did somehow manage to
thwart that with my apps, just can't remember how. Prob something I
did in the WM_QUIT handler.

And i get by designing
electronics of what ever i need when the time comes. i am not saying
that i am an expert in the field but have done some very interesting
things over the years.
I have an Application that i have been tweaking for some 3 years
now that i use for my self when creating schematics, PC board lay outs
and enclosure layouts with templates all in one.

That's a nice feature. With OrCAD, you can use, WTF?, oh, Visual
CADD, to do the board outline (maybe do the enclosure, too.) Then
you save it as DXF and import it into Layout. If one spends a few
hours per day rereading the various manuals, he might actually be
able to modify the maxdxf.ini file to the point where a whole board
design can be moved back and forth from Layout and AutoCAD without
FUBARing the whole shebang or fouling up layer names.

So try to set that feature up to be as painless as possible. The
OrCAD docs aren't all that well organized according to normal
design flow AFAIC. What you want to shoot for is documentation
during developement with developement according to design flow.

Here, maybe others will have some input to add. Consider the design
flow...

Schematic capture and optionally, simulation. Get the basic design
down.

PCB netlist generation for PCB CAD. Now you can do an initial parts
placement to get an idea of the board size.

Board outline, mounting holes, etc., and enclosure done in parallel
in whatever works. Save as DXF. You should be able to modify the
board outline and re-import it back into PCB layout without messing
up the layout. You should also be able to merge a DXF file for an
enclosure with a board outline and split 'em apart, later.

Now i don't have a lot of LIB symbol info currently but add (design)
as i go along..

Orcad's Library manager has no way to resize or horizontally scroll
the footprint list box. You can't see the end of the footprint name
for say, a .100" 6 pin header and the stinkin' number of pins is at
the end of the footprint name, so you have to play hit and miss.
Friggin' shame, really.

I have been noticing that few here are always looking for LIB's
of components? i take it that it must be kind of difficult for some to
design their own or maybe its not inherently made in the app they are
using?

I just checked the Layout docs for info on ASCII MIN files and came
up blank. Someone posted a link for a BGA footprint generator app
that outputs ASCII MIN files. Many CADs use their own binary
implementations for parts files and one CAD won't be compatible
with others. Perhaps another reason OrCAD is so popular is because
many (?) parts mfgs supply libs for OrCAD.

The problem is, creating a part takes time and it's only gonna work
in the CAD in which it was created. There might be a pile of OrCAD
footprints available, but there aren't a pile of users who can
afford OrCAD.

in any case lately i have been working on my App to make it very
simple to edit and create new components to add to a LIB and make it
shareable for others to use. with graphical help and the works..

We'll need your app to be ale to use 'em, no? This all sounds great
and I wish you success. I'd suggest that you design your library
manager to talk to all the popular DB engines. SQL Server, MySQL,
PostgresSQL, etc.

I would be interested in getting some input on where people's minds
are base on their current tools of Cad used for electronic work?

A beta test program would probably help. Can't hardly comment on an
app I haven't tried and it might be harder to fix things later.

List of Ideas that you can feed me, options that it should support?
i most likely have the most generic options in there now but i would
love to hear more

www.pcblibraries.com
www.ipc.whatever it is

P.S.
my app is designed in such a way i am memory conscience and
resource conscience. this means your PC should not get loaded down or have
snail crawling problems when its operating! at least it works ok here
on my PC's

Heh, heh... The proof is not in the pudding, but the eating of it.
Beta test.

HTH
--
Best Regards,
Mike

 

[Jamie]

well thank you and others for replying, as i stated before i have
allot of hours working with USERS in general. i am very aware of the
problems in volved.
as far as creating the component Libs , it does not create known
existing LIB formats nor does it use them. this is one main reason the
app has it's own graphical editor which is designed with electronic eng
in mind.
you design a package if it does not already exists in the package
database, bond it with a component that your currently editing/creating.
you can then define special math calculations to take place at
selected inputs etc..
you can have generic package items or custom package item that just
may use one of the generic package items to start with.. so this is all
simple editing.
the one item that i tried to keep in line and still looking ok is the
fact that the program can work in several different aspects of your
project and yet all inter link with each other. things like making
circuit board lays and the enclosure used with other foreign items
mounted around it.
etc..
I will be posting a demo very soon.. just working out some final
touches on something at the moment..

Active8 wrote:
(many lines truncated)

I would be interested in getting some input on where people's minds
are base on their current tools of Cad used for electronic work?


A beta test program would probably help. Can't hardly comment on an
app I haven't tried and it might be harder to fix things later.


List of Ideas that you can feed me, options that it should support?
i most likely have the most generic options in there now but i would
love to hear more


www.pcblibraries.com
www.ipc.whatever it is


P.S.
my app is designed in such a way i am memory conscience and
resource conscience. this means your PC should not get loaded down or have
snail crawling problems when its operating! at least it works ok here
on my PC's


Heh, heh... The proof is not in the pudding, but the eating of it.
Beta test.

HTH
--
Best Regards,
Mike

 

[Active8]

On Sun, 29 Feb 2004 22:54:40 -0800, jamie_5_not_valid_after_5
_Please@charter.net said...

well thank you and others for replying, as i stated before i have
allot of hours working with USERS in general. i am very aware of the
problems in volved.
as far as creating the component Libs , it does not create known
existing LIB formats nor does it use them. this is one main reason the
app has it's own graphical editor which is designed with electronic eng
in mind.

I'd hope.

you design a package if it does not already exists in the package
database, bond it with a component that your currently editing/creating.

Let's call PCB packages "footrints" and schematic capture parts,
"components". The term "Packages" has another use. See below,
later.

you can then define special math calculations to take place at
selected inputs etc..

Best to generate some flavor of Spice netlist. Here, you'd best
research the ins and outs of different Spice syntax, but would
highly recommend something that can be used in LTSpice.

you can have generic package items or custom package item that just
may use one of the generic package items to start with.. so this is all
simple editing.

I think you're talking about "homogeneous" and "heterogeneous"
"Packages". In schematic capture, you want to be able to select a
PCB footprint, but, when you create a new "component", you can
create a "homogeneous package", i.e., a quad NAND gate "package"
where each instance of a NAND gate gets an "a", "b", "c", "d"
designator, or a "heterogeneous package" like a relay where you
have a coil and a switch.

the one item that i tried to keep in line and still looking ok is the
fact that the program can work in several different aspects of your
project and yet all inter link with each other.

Probably best that you're the only one working on it. Try to get a
bunch of programmers to do each separate part and you have a
clusterfuck, well, if they work at Redmond and/or have a marketing
agenda, Linux is a different story.

things like making
circuit board lays and the enclosure used with other foreign items
mounted around it.

Something I forgot. PCB component keepouts, both vertical and
horizontal, route keepouts, etc. But that's pretty deep for this
subject since I'm assuming your app doesn't yet have an auto router
or DRC.

etc..
I will be posting a demo very soon.. just working out some final
touches on something at the moment..

I'm always game to try something new. Always skeptical, too.

Active8 wrote:
(many lines truncated)
I would be interested in getting some input on where people's minds
are base on their current tools of Cad used for electronic work?


A beta test program would probably help. Can't hardly comment on an
app I haven't tried and it might be harder to fix things later.


List of Ideas that you can feed me, options that it should support?
i most likely have the most generic options in there now but i would
love to hear more


www.pcblibraries.com
www.ipc.whatever it is


P.S.
my app is designed in such a way i am memory conscience and
resource conscience. this means your PC should not get loaded down or have
snail crawling problems when its operating! at least it works ok here
on my PC's


Heh, heh... The proof is not in the pudding, but the eating of it.
Beta test.

HTH
--
Best Regards,
Mike

--
Best Regards,
Mike