Electricity meter checking, NSW

[Trevor Wilson]

I recieved a letter yesterday, telling me that Ausgrid wish to perform
maintenance on my meter. Smells like a con to me. In almost 40 years as
an electricity consumer, I've never heard of a meter requiring
maintenance. I suspect they simply wish to fit my home with a 'smart
meter'. I don't want a smart meter.

Anyone else recieved this bullshit?


--
Trevor Wilson www.rageaudio.com.au

 

[F Murtz]

Trevor Wilson wrote:

I recieved a letter yesterday, telling me that Ausgrid wish to perform
maintenance on my meter. Smells like a con to me. In almost 40 years as
an electricity consumer, I've never heard of a meter requiring
maintenance. I suspect they simply wish to fit my home with a 'smart
meter'. I don't want a smart meter.

Anyone else recieved this bullshit?

If they want to fit a smart meter they probably will.

 

[Sylvia Else]

On 1/10/2013 9:52 AM, F Murtz wrote:

Trevor Wilson wrote:
I recieved a letter yesterday, telling me that Ausgrid wish to perform
maintenance on my meter. Smells like a con to me. In almost 40 years as
an electricity consumer, I've never heard of a meter requiring
maintenance. I suspect they simply wish to fit my home with a 'smart
meter'. I don't want a smart meter.

Anyone else recieved this bullshit?



If they want to fit a smart meter they probably will.

The new meters allow remote reading, which is probably the primary
motivation for installing them.

I can't find anything to suggest that people can be forced onto a time
of use tariff.

Sylvia.

 

[F Murtz]

Sylvia Else wrote:

On 1/10/2013 9:52 AM, F Murtz wrote:
Trevor Wilson wrote:
I recieved a letter yesterday, telling me that Ausgrid wish to perform
maintenance on my meter. Smells like a con to me. In almost 40 years as
an electricity consumer, I've never heard of a meter requiring
maintenance. I suspect they simply wish to fit my home with a 'smart
meter'. I don't want a smart meter.

Anyone else recieved this bullshit?



If they want to fit a smart meter they probably will.

The new meters allow remote reading, which is probably the primary
motivation for installing them.

I can't find anything to suggest that people can be forced onto a time
of use tariff.

Sylvia.

Smart meters are made that can selective switch circuits remotely and
the wheels are already turning in backroom brains wanting to control use
in high peak times.
tests are already happening in some groups with permission.
They are also testing remote control of fridges which have control
circuits built in which shut down for short enough periods that food
does not go off.

 

[Sylvia Else]

On 1/10/2013 5:55 PM, F Murtz wrote:

Sylvia Else wrote:
On 1/10/2013 9:52 AM, F Murtz wrote:
Trevor Wilson wrote:
I recieved a letter yesterday, telling me that Ausgrid wish to perform
maintenance on my meter. Smells like a con to me. In almost 40 years as
an electricity consumer, I've never heard of a meter requiring
maintenance. I suspect they simply wish to fit my home with a 'smart
meter'. I don't want a smart meter.

Anyone else recieved this bullshit?



If they want to fit a smart meter they probably will.

The new meters allow remote reading, which is probably the primary
motivation for installing them.

I can't find anything to suggest that people can be forced onto a time
of use tariff.

Sylvia.


Smart meters are made that can selective switch circuits remotely and
the wheels are already turning in backroom brains wanting to control use
in high peak times.
tests are already happening in some groups with permission.
They are also testing remote control of fridges which have control
circuits built in which shut down for short enough periods that food
does not go off.

I don't see the point. What happens when the power is restored?
Obviously, the pump runs until the temperature returns to the set point.
If disconnecting the power has prevented the pump from running earlier,
it will now run for that much longer because the temperature has risen
further. Net result on energy consumption(leaving out the second order
effect of a higher average temperature, which the consumer would
compensate for by turning the thermostat down) - nil.

The same applies to air conditioners.

Sylvia.

Sylvia.

 

[Glenn B]

On 1/10/2013 6:17 PM, Sylvia Else wrote:

On 1/10/2013 5:55 PM, F Murtz wrote:
Sylvia Else wrote:
On 1/10/2013 9:52 AM, F Murtz wrote:
Trevor Wilson wrote:
I recieved a letter yesterday, telling me that Ausgrid wish to perform
maintenance on my meter. Smells like a con to me. In almost 40
years as
an electricity consumer, I've never heard of a meter requiring
maintenance. I suspect they simply wish to fit my home with a 'smart
meter'. I don't want a smart meter.

Anyone else recieved this bullshit?



If they want to fit a smart meter they probably will.

The new meters allow remote reading, which is probably the primary
motivation for installing them.

I can't find anything to suggest that people can be forced onto a time
of use tariff.

Sylvia.


Smart meters are made that can selective switch circuits remotely and
the wheels are already turning in backroom brains wanting to control use
in high peak times.
tests are already happening in some groups with permission.
They are also testing remote control of fridges which have control
circuits built in which shut down for short enough periods that food
does not go off.

I don't see the point. What happens when the power is restored?
Obviously, the pump runs until the temperature returns to the set point.
If disconnecting the power has prevented the pump from running earlier,
it will now run for that much longer because the temperature has risen
further. Net result on energy consumption(leaving out the second order
effect of a higher average temperature, which the consumer would
compensate for by turning the thermostat down) - nil.

The same applies to air conditioners.

Sylvia.

Sylvia.

Nil net energy saving, but a possible load smoothing?

 

[Sylvia Else]

On 1/10/2013 9:13 PM, Glenn B wrote:

On 1/10/2013 6:17 PM, Sylvia Else wrote:
On 1/10/2013 5:55 PM, F Murtz wrote:
Sylvia Else wrote:
On 1/10/2013 9:52 AM, F Murtz wrote:
Trevor Wilson wrote:
I recieved a letter yesterday, telling me that Ausgrid wish to
perform
maintenance on my meter. Smells like a con to me. In almost 40
years as
an electricity consumer, I've never heard of a meter requiring
maintenance. I suspect they simply wish to fit my home with a 'smart
meter'. I don't want a smart meter.

Anyone else recieved this bullshit?



If they want to fit a smart meter they probably will.

The new meters allow remote reading, which is probably the primary
motivation for installing them.

I can't find anything to suggest that people can be forced onto a time
of use tariff.

Sylvia.


Smart meters are made that can selective switch circuits remotely and
the wheels are already turning in backroom brains wanting to control use
in high peak times.
tests are already happening in some groups with permission.
They are also testing remote control of fridges which have control
circuits built in which shut down for short enough periods that food
does not go off.

I don't see the point. What happens when the power is restored?
Obviously, the pump runs until the temperature returns to the set point.
If disconnecting the power has prevented the pump from running earlier,
it will now run for that much longer because the temperature has risen
further. Net result on energy consumption(leaving out the second order
effect of a higher average temperature, which the consumer would
compensate for by turning the thermostat down) - nil.

The same applies to air conditioners.

Sylvia.

Sylvia.


Nil net energy saving, but a possible load smoothing?

Taken over thousands of households, I'd be very surprised if there was
much noticeable variation in load as refrigerators and/or
airconditioners turn themselves on and off. I'd expect the inherent
randomness of the process to even things out.

If we're talking about turning them off for hours - load shifting - then
things are different, but the temperature in a fridge rises
significantly over that timescale, and, of course, it's the last thing
one wants with an airconditioner - in effect, to be able to use it only
when it's not needed.

Sylvia.

 

[F Murtz]

Sylvia Else wrote:

On 1/10/2013 9:13 PM, Glenn B wrote:
On 1/10/2013 6:17 PM, Sylvia Else wrote:
On 1/10/2013 5:55 PM, F Murtz wrote:
Sylvia Else wrote:
On 1/10/2013 9:52 AM, F Murtz wrote:
Trevor Wilson wrote:
I recieved a letter yesterday, telling me that Ausgrid wish to
perform
maintenance on my meter. Smells like a con to me. In almost 40
years as
an electricity consumer, I've never heard of a meter requiring
maintenance. I suspect they simply wish to fit my home with a 'smart
meter'. I don't want a smart meter.

Anyone else recieved this bullshit?



If they want to fit a smart meter they probably will.

The new meters allow remote reading, which is probably the primary
motivation for installing them.

I can't find anything to suggest that people can be forced onto a time
of use tariff.

Sylvia.


Smart meters are made that can selective switch circuits remotely and
the wheels are already turning in backroom brains wanting to control
use
in high peak times.
tests are already happening in some groups with permission.
They are also testing remote control of fridges which have control
circuits built in which shut down for short enough periods that food
does not go off.

I don't see the point. What happens when the power is restored?
Obviously, the pump runs until the temperature returns to the set point.
If disconnecting the power has prevented the pump from running earlier,
it will now run for that much longer because the temperature has risen
further. Net result on energy consumption(leaving out the second order
effect of a higher average temperature, which the consumer would
compensate for by turning the thermostat down) - nil.

The same applies to air conditioners.

Sylvia.

Sylvia.


Nil net energy saving, but a possible load smoothing?

Taken over thousands of households, I'd be very surprised if there was
much noticeable variation in load as refrigerators and/or
airconditioners turn themselves on and off. I'd expect the inherent
randomness of the process to even things out.

If we're talking about turning them off for hours - load shifting - then
things are different, but the temperature in a fridge rises
significantly over that timescale, and, of course, it's the last thing
one wants with an airconditioner - in effect, to be able to use it only
when it's not needed.

Sylvia.


one article

http://www.project.nsearch.com/profiles/blogs/big-brother-to-switch-off-your-fridge-power-giants-to-make

 

[yaputya]

"F Murtz" <haggisz@hotmail.com> wrote in message news:l2ehfq$uqg$1@dont-email.me...

Sylvia Else wrote:
On 1/10/2013 9:13 PM, Glenn B wrote:
On 1/10/2013 6:17 PM, Sylvia Else wrote:
On 1/10/2013 5:55 PM, F Murtz wrote:
Sylvia Else wrote:
On 1/10/2013 9:52 AM, F Murtz wrote:
Trevor Wilson wrote:
I recieved a letter yesterday, telling me that Ausgrid wish to
perform
maintenance on my meter. Smells like a con to me. In almost 40
years as
an electricity consumer, I've never heard of a meter requiring
maintenance. I suspect they simply wish to fit my home with a 'smart
meter'. I don't want a smart meter.

Anyone else recieved this bullshit?



If they want to fit a smart meter they probably will.

The new meters allow remote reading, which is probably the primary
motivation for installing them.

I can't find anything to suggest that people can be forced onto a time
of use tariff.

Sylvia.


Smart meters are made that can selective switch circuits remotely and
the wheels are already turning in backroom brains wanting to control
use
in high peak times.
tests are already happening in some groups with permission.
They are also testing remote control of fridges which have control
circuits built in which shut down for short enough periods that food
does not go off.

I don't see the point. What happens when the power is restored?
Obviously, the pump runs until the temperature returns to the set point.
If disconnecting the power has prevented the pump from running earlier,
it will now run for that much longer because the temperature has risen
further. Net result on energy consumption(leaving out the second order
effect of a higher average temperature, which the consumer would
compensate for by turning the thermostat down) - nil.

The same applies to air conditioners.

Sylvia.

Sylvia.


Nil net energy saving, but a possible load smoothing?

Taken over thousands of households, I'd be very surprised if there was
much noticeable variation in load as refrigerators and/or
airconditioners turn themselves on and off. I'd expect the inherent
randomness of the process to even things out.

If we're talking about turning them off for hours - load shifting - then
things are different, but the temperature in a fridge rises
significantly over that timescale, and, of course, it's the last thing
one wants with an airconditioner - in effect, to be able to use it only
when it's not needed.

Sylvia.


one article

http://www.project.nsearch.com/profiles/blogs/big-brother-to-switch-off-your-fridge-power-giants-to-make

According to that source, the fridge etc. would monitor the incoming mains frequ. and react according to whether it is over or under
the nominal 50Hz.
I suppose the fridge would switch to a low-power mode where it doesn't run the compressor and lets the temp go higher than normal.
Hopefully, the fridge would have previously cooled to a lower than normal temp (running longer when the mains freq. was higher), so
ya tinnies wouldn't get to disgusting Pommie temps!

 

[Jeßus]

On Tue, 01 Oct 2013 09:05:57 +1000, Trevor Wilson
<trevor@SPAMBLOCKrageaudio.com.au> wrote:

I recieved a letter yesterday, telling me that Ausgrid wish to perform
maintenance on my meter. Smells like a con to me. In almost 40 years as
an electricity consumer, I've never heard of a meter requiring
maintenance. I suspect they simply wish to fit my home with a 'smart
meter'. I don't want a smart meter.

Anyone else recieved this bullshit?

Things are not going to improve over time, why not go solar?

 

[Trevor Wilson]

On 2/10/2013 6:58 AM, Jeßus wrote:

On Tue, 01 Oct 2013 09:05:57 +1000, Trevor Wilson
trevor@SPAMBLOCKrageaudio.com.au> wrote:

I recieved a letter yesterday, telling me that Ausgrid wish to perform
maintenance on my meter. Smells like a con to me. In almost 40 years as
an electricity consumer, I've never heard of a meter requiring
maintenance. I suspect they simply wish to fit my home with a 'smart
meter'. I don't want a smart meter.

Anyone else recieved this bullshit?

Things are not going to improve over time, why not go solar?

**Too many trees sheilding my roofs. I'm looking at amorphous cells, in
series/parallel that may mitigate the worst of the problems.

--
Trevor Wilson www.rageaudio.com.au

 

[Phil Allison]

"F Murtz"

one article

http://www.project.nsearch.com/profiles/blogs/big-brother-to-switch-off-your-fridge-power-giants-to-make

** You would have to be very stupid to swallow one word of that drivel -
load and supply frequency are NOT related in the simplistic way being
suggested.

Blackouts, when they do occur, are not across the *whole supply grid* but
particular sub stations that experience faults or overheating of the
transformers.

For example: NSW, SA, VIC and QLD are all one grid and so share a common
frequency - which is derived and controlled from hydro generators in the
Snowy mountains.

Anyone who cares to check the frequency will see that variations from 50Hz
are small ( typically +/- 0.1Hz ) and are largely independent of the time
of day or weather.

FYI.

Tasmania shares power with VIC via an under sea cable - but that cable uses
DC so the frequency in Tasmania is not locked to the main grid.



..... Phil

 

[Sylvia Else]

On 2/10/2013 8:37 AM, Phil Allison wrote:

"F Murtz"

one article

http://www.project.nsearch.com/profiles/blogs/big-brother-to-switch-off-your-fridge-power-giants-to-make


** You would have to be very stupid to swallow one word of that drivel -
load and supply frequency are NOT related in the simplistic way being
suggested.

Blackouts, when they do occur, are not across the *whole supply grid* but
particular sub stations that experience faults or overheating of the
transformers.

For example: NSW, SA, VIC and QLD are all one grid and so share a common
frequency - which is derived and controlled from hydro generators in the
Snowy mountains.

Anyone who cares to check the frequency will see that variations from 50Hz
are small ( typically +/- 0.1Hz ) and are largely independent of the time
of day or weather.

FYI.

Tasmania shares power with VIC via an under sea cable - but that cable uses
DC so the frequency in Tasmania is not locked to the main grid.



.... Phil

A short term drop in frequency is an indicator that power demand is
momentarily exceeding supply. Essentially it means that the rotational
energy in the generators is being consumed, slowing them down. The way
this is handled in the normal way of things is for certain generator
operators be paid to provide "frequency control" whereby their
generators respond to the drop in frequency by throttling up (and to an
increase in frequency by throttling down). This ultimately is what keeps
the frequency within limits.

But I shudder to think what happens when you have a million appliances
around the place that drop their demand when the frequency falls. They
then become part of the control feedback loop. That seems more likely to
cause blackouts then prevent them.

Sylvia.

 

[Phil Allison]

"Sylvia Else"

On 2/10/2013 8:37 AM, Phil Allison wrote:
"F Murtz"

one article

http://www.project.nsearch.com/profiles/blogs/big-brother-to-switch-off-your-fridge-power-giants-to-make


** You would have to be very stupid to swallow one word of that drivel -
load and supply frequency are NOT related in the simplistic way being
suggested.

Blackouts, when they do occur, are not across the *whole supply grid* but
particular sub stations that experience faults or overheating of the
transformers.

For example: NSW, SA, VIC and QLD are all one grid and so share a common
frequency - which is derived and controlled from hydro generators in the
Snowy mountains.

Anyone who cares to check the frequency will see that variations from
50Hz
are small ( typically +/- 0.1Hz ) and are largely independent of the
time
of day or weather.

FYI.

Tasmania shares power with VIC via an under sea cable - but that cable
uses
DC so the frequency in Tasmania is not locked to the main grid.



A short term drop in frequency is an indicator that power demand is
momentarily exceeding supply.

** No it is not.




... Phil

 

[Sylvia Else]

On 2/10/2013 11:57 AM, Phil Allison wrote:

"Sylvia Else"
On 2/10/2013 8:37 AM, Phil Allison wrote:
"F Murtz"

one article

http://www.project.nsearch.com/profiles/blogs/big-brother-to-switch-off-your-fridge-power-giants-to-make


** You would have to be very stupid to swallow one word of that drivel -
load and supply frequency are NOT related in the simplistic way being
suggested.

Blackouts, when they do occur, are not across the *whole supply grid* but
particular sub stations that experience faults or overheating of the
transformers.

For example: NSW, SA, VIC and QLD are all one grid and so share a common
frequency - which is derived and controlled from hydro generators in the
Snowy mountains.

Anyone who cares to check the frequency will see that variations from
50Hz
are small ( typically +/- 0.1Hz ) and are largely independent of the
time
of day or weather.

FYI.

Tasmania shares power with VIC via an under sea cable - but that cable
uses
DC so the frequency in Tasmania is not locked to the main grid.



A short term drop in frequency is an indicator that power demand is
momentarily exceeding supply.

** No it is not.

The usual cogent argument from Phil.

Think about the physics of it.

Sylvia.

 

[Glenn B]

On 2/10/2013 10:40 AM, Sylvia Else wrote:

On 2/10/2013 11:57 AM, Phil Allison wrote:
"Sylvia Else"
On 2/10/2013 8:37 AM, Phil Allison wrote:
"F Murtz"

one article

http://www.project.nsearch.com/profiles/blogs/big-brother-to-switch-off-your-fridge-power-giants-to-make



** You would have to be very stupid to swallow one word of that
drivel -
load and supply frequency are NOT related in the simplistic way being
suggested.

Blackouts, when they do occur, are not across the *whole supply
grid* but
particular sub stations that experience faults or overheating of the
transformers.

For example: NSW, SA, VIC and QLD are all one grid and so share a
common
frequency - which is derived and controlled from hydro generators in
the
Snowy mountains.

Anyone who cares to check the frequency will see that variations from
50Hz
are small ( typically +/- 0.1Hz ) and are largely independent of the
time
of day or weather.

FYI.

Tasmania shares power with VIC via an under sea cable - but that cable
uses
DC so the frequency in Tasmania is not locked to the main grid.



A short term drop in frequency is an indicator that power demand is
momentarily exceeding supply.

** No it is not.

The usual cogent argument from Phil.

Think about the physics of it.

Sylvia.

Does anyone know anything about a catastrophic unloading of a generator
turbine at the East Perth power station that resulted in the generator
rotor literally leaving the building?

Supposedly in the 60's

 

[Phil Allison]

"Glenn B"

Does anyone know anything about a catastrophic unloading of a generator
turbine at the East Perth power station that resulted in the generator
rotor literally leaving the building?

Supposedly in the 60's

** Pretty much the only way something like that can happen is if the turbine
suddenly stops rotating.

Like in an instant - if the main bearings totally cease cos there is no
lubrication.

Exit one turbine - left stage ...

Right through the wall and into the wild blue younder.



..... Phil

 

[John G]

Phil Allison laid this down on his screen :

"Glenn B"


Does anyone know anything about a catastrophic unloading of a generator
turbine at the East Perth power station that resulted in the generator
rotor literally leaving the building?

Supposedly in the 60's


** Pretty much the only way something like that can happen is if the turbine
suddenly stops rotating.

Like in an instant - if the main bearings totally cease cos there is no
lubrication.

Exit one turbine - left stage ...

Right through the wall and into the wild blue younder.



.... Phil

I believe it happened at the old Wangi Power station in about 1957.
Turbine jammed, Alternator,50 megawatts, motored on driven by the rest
of NSW and centre bearing left the room thru a window and landed in the
transformer yard.

Wangi is on Lake Macquarie not far from Eraring PS.

--
John G

 

[Glenn B]

On 2/10/2013 7:39 PM, John G wrote:

Phil Allison laid this down on his screen :
"Glenn B"


Does anyone know anything about a catastrophic unloading of a
generator turbine at the East Perth power station that resulted in
the generator rotor literally leaving the building?

Supposedly in the 60's


** Pretty much the only way something like that can happen is if the
turbine suddenly stops rotating.

Like in an instant - if the main bearings totally cease cos there
is no lubrication.

Exit one turbine - left stage ...

Right through the wall and into the wild blue younder.



.... Phil

I believe it happened at the old Wangi Power station in about 1957.
Turbine jammed, Alternator,50 megawatts, motored on driven by the rest
of NSW and centre bearing left the room thru a window and landed in the
transformer yard.

Wangi is on Lake Macquarie not far from Eraring PS.

I heard the East Perth power station from different ex-State Energy
Commission guys - I'm not sure I believe them but it seems to be a
widespread story. Supposedly some bits ended up in the adjacent river.


Perhaps the east perth story is a time distorted version of the Wangi
incident.

 

[Bob Milutinovic]

"Trevor Wilson" <trevor@SPAMBLOCKrageaudio.com.au> wrote in message
news:bb10b1Fd0m9U1@mid.individual.net...

On 2/10/2013 6:58 AM, Jeßus wrote:
On Tue, 01 Oct 2013 09:05:57 +1000, Trevor Wilson
trevor@SPAMBLOCKrageaudio.com.au> wrote:

I recieved a letter yesterday, telling me that Ausgrid wish to perform
maintenance on my meter. Smells like a con to me. In almost 40 years as
an electricity consumer, I've never heard of a meter requiring
maintenance. I suspect they simply wish to fit my home with a 'smart
meter'. I don't want a smart meter.

Anyone else recieved this bullshit?

Things are not going to improve over time, why not go solar?


**Too many trees sheilding my roofs. I'm looking at amorphous cells, in
series/parallel that may mitigate the worst of the problems.

Round-up... Copper nails... ;-)

Seriously though, depending on the size of your yard, you might be able to
mount the cells on ancillary buildings, or create a frame specifically to
hold them - assumign the entirety of the yard isn't obscured by trees.

BTW, the plural is "rooves" - don't let the Septification of the English
language get a hold in Australia.

--
Bob Milutinovic
Cognicom