economists are useless, or worse...

J

John Larkin

Guest
https://www.breitbart.com/economy/2022/06/29/fed-chairman-powell-realizes-how-little-we-understand-about-inflation/

--

If a man will begin with certainties, he shall end with doubts,
but if he will be content to begin with doubts he shall end in certainties.
Francis Bacon
 
On Wed, 29 Jun 2022 17:50:45 -0700, John Larkin
<jlarkin@highland_atwork_technology.com> wrote:

https://www.breitbart.com/economy/2022/06/29/fed-chairman-powell-realizes-how-little-we-understand-about-inflation/

Canadian economists are no better.

https://wolfstreet.com/2022/06/24/inflation-forecasts-arent-worth-the-paper-theyre-written-on-this-is-about-the-bank-of-canadas-reaction-to-inflation-but-its-the-same-in-the-us-a/

--

If a man will begin with certainties, he shall end with doubts,
but if he will be content to begin with doubts he shall end in certainties.
Francis Bacon
 
On Friday, July 1, 2022 at 5:51:53 AM UTC+10, John Larkin wrote:
On Wed, 29 Jun 2022 17:50:45 -0700, John Larkin
jlarkin@highland_atwork_technology.com> wrote:


https://www.breitbart.com/economy/2022/06/29/fed-chairman-powell-realizes-how-little-we-understand-about-inflation/

Canadian economists are no better.

https://wolfstreet.com/2022/06/24/inflation-forecasts-arent-worth-the-paper-theyre-written-on-this-is-about-the-bank-of-canadas-reaction-to-inflation-but-its-the-same-in-the-us-a/

And why should we pay any more attention to Wolf Richter\'s opinions than we pay to Breitbart\'s or John Larkin\'s?

He pander\'s to the ill-informed, and when it comes to economics few are as poorly informed as John Larkin.

> If a man will begin with certainties, he shall end with doubts,

John Larkin is certain that economists are useless.

--
Bill Sloman, Sydney
 
John Larkin wrote:
https://www.breitbart.com/economy/2022/06/29/fed-chairman-powell-realizes-how-little-we-understand-about-inflation/

The Fed isn\'t completely abut economics.

Try themoneyillusion.com. Scott Sumner.

He wants NGDP targeting, which looks like crude \"controls\" controls
( as in PID, Kalman ) but actually has an underlying story even I
can understand.

And, FWIW:

\"Real gross domestic product (GDP) decreased at an annual rate
of 1.6 percent in the first quarter of 2022, according to the \"third\"
estimate released by the Bureau of Economic Analysis. In the fourth
quarter of 2021, real GDP increased6.9 percent.
\"
https://www.bea.gov/sites/default/files/2022-06/gdp1q22_3rd.pdf

plus wages are up like 17% year over year.

Short, sharp recession after all the jiggery pokery from 2020/2021 and
then a return to the same-old, same old.

--
Les Cargill
 
Ed Lee wrote:
On Wednesday, June 29, 2022 at 5:50:55 PM UTC-7, John Larkin wrote:
https://www.breitbart.com/economy/2022/06/29/fed-chairman-powell-realizes-how-little-we-understand-about-inflation/


I doubt that he doesn\'t understand increased liquidity (pandemic or
otherwise) drives inflation. But it\'s easier to say I didn\'t know
than to say I lied to you.

Yeah, but *when*? Variable lags will kill your ability to predict things.

--
Les Cargill
 
rbowman wrote:
On 06/29/2022 08:17 PM, jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
On Wed, 29 Jun 2022 18:39:44 -0700 (PDT), Ed Lee
edward.ming.lee@gmail.com> wrote:

On Wednesday, June 29, 2022 at 5:50:55 PM UTC-7, John Larkin wrote:
https://www.breitbart.com/economy/2022/06/29/fed-chairman-powell-realizes-how-little-we-understand-about-inflation/


I doubt that he doesn\'t understand increased liquidity (pandemic or
otherwise) drives inflation.  But it\'s easier to say I didn\'t know
than to say I lied to you.

Or he doesn\'t understand basic economics.


Considering about 400 Ph.D economists work for the Fed you\'d think one
or two would have some grasp.

Considering more than 400 engineers work for Boeing, you\'d think
the 737MAX would work.

It\'s like that...

--
Les Cargill
 
On Fri, 1 Jul 2022 19:11:15 -0500, Les Cargill <lcargil99@gmail.com>
wrote:

Ed Lee wrote:
On Wednesday, June 29, 2022 at 5:50:55 PM UTC-7, John Larkin wrote:
https://www.breitbart.com/economy/2022/06/29/fed-chairman-powell-realizes-how-little-we-understand-about-inflation/


I doubt that he doesn\'t understand increased liquidity (pandemic or
otherwise) drives inflation. But it\'s easier to say I didn\'t know
than to say I lied to you.


Yeah, but *when*? Variable lags will kill your ability to predict things.

If people don\'t understand control theory.

--

If a man will begin with certainties, he shall end with doubts,
but if he will be content to begin with doubts he shall end in certainties.
Francis Bacon
 
On Saturday, July 2, 2022 at 10:19:21 AM UTC+10, John Larkin wrote:
On Fri, 1 Jul 2022 19:11:15 -0500, Les Cargill <lcar...@gmail.com
wrote:
Ed Lee wrote:
On Wednesday, June 29, 2022 at 5:50:55 PM UTC-7, John Larkin wrote:
https://www.breitbart.com/economy/2022/06/29/fed-chairman-powell-realizes-how-little-we-understand-about-inflation/


I doubt that he doesn\'t understand increased liquidity (pandemic or
otherwise) drives inflation. But it\'s easier to say I didn\'t know
than to say I lied to you.


Yeah, but *when*? Variable lags will kill your ability to predict things..

If people don\'t understand control theory.

The economy is a complex non-linear system. Control theory works for linear systems, or systems you can linearise. Real systems tend to stop looking linear or linearisable when they hit the rails. John Larkin seems to think that economists ought to be able to do as well at controlling a really complex system as he can do on much simpler systems, so the failure of understanding is all his.

--
Bill Sloman, Sydney
 
John Larkin wrote:
On Fri, 1 Jul 2022 19:11:15 -0500, Les Cargill <lcargil99@gmail.com
wrote:

Ed Lee wrote:
On Wednesday, June 29, 2022 at 5:50:55 PM UTC-7, John Larkin wrote:
https://www.breitbart.com/economy/2022/06/29/fed-chairman-powell-realizes-how-little-we-understand-about-inflation/


I doubt that he doesn\'t understand increased liquidity (pandemic or
otherwise) drives inflation. But it\'s easier to say I didn\'t know
than to say I lied to you.


Yeah, but *when*? Variable lags will kill your ability to predict things.

If people don\'t understand control theory.

Right. That\'s the problem.

--
Les Cargill
 
On 07/01/2022 06:19 PM, John Larkin wrote:
On Fri, 1 Jul 2022 19:11:15 -0500, Les Cargill <lcargil99@gmail.com
wrote:

Ed Lee wrote:
On Wednesday, June 29, 2022 at 5:50:55 PM UTC-7, John Larkin wrote:
https://www.breitbart.com/economy/2022/06/29/fed-chairman-powell-realizes-how-little-we-understand-about-inflation/


I doubt that he doesn\'t understand increased liquidity (pandemic or
otherwise) drives inflation. But it\'s easier to say I didn\'t know
than to say I lied to you.


Yeah, but *when*? Variable lags will kill your ability to predict things.

If people don\'t understand control theory.

If PID loops worked like economists the world would be filled with
industrial disasters.
 
On 07/01/2022 06:12 PM, Les Cargill wrote:
rbowman wrote:
On 06/29/2022 08:17 PM, jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
On Wed, 29 Jun 2022 18:39:44 -0700 (PDT), Ed Lee
edward.ming.lee@gmail.com> wrote:

On Wednesday, June 29, 2022 at 5:50:55 PM UTC-7, John Larkin wrote:
https://www.breitbart.com/economy/2022/06/29/fed-chairman-powell-realizes-how-little-we-understand-about-inflation/


I doubt that he doesn\'t understand increased liquidity (pandemic or
otherwise) drives inflation. But it\'s easier to say I didn\'t know
than to say I lied to you.

Or he doesn\'t understand basic economics.


Considering about 400 Ph.D economists work for the Fed you\'d think one
or two would have some grasp.

Considering more than 400 engineers work for Boeing, you\'d think
the 737MAX would work.

It\'s like that...

https://www.cnn.com/2022/06/30/politics/us-hypersonic-missile-test-fails/index.html


When I graduated in the \'60s RPI, the oldest technological university in
the US, was ranked in the top 3, trading places with MIT and Cal Tech.
Now it\'s tied with Florida State at #55, but it has one hell of a
performing arts center:

https://www.empac.rpi.edu/about

Maybe Boeing, General Atomics, and so forth didn\'t get the memo... This
was decades ago but when my brother worked for Boeing they would hire a
fresh crop of engineers and fire most of them after evaluating their
performance for a year. Chopping out deadwood probably is a lot harder
in these kinder times. Unfortunately reality intrudes when you\'re
dealing with missiles and aircraft.

Parenthetically, the CHGB is destined for the Zumwalt, another expensive
design that doesn\'t work too well.
 
On Friday, July 1, 2022 at 5:19:21 PM UTC-7, John Larkin wrote:
On Fri, 1 Jul 2022 19:11:15 -0500, Les Cargill <lcar...@gmail.com
wrote:
Ed Lee wrote:
On Wednesday, June 29, 2022 at 5:50:55 PM UTC-7, John Larkin wrote:
https://www.breitbart.com/economy/2022/06/29/fed-chairman-powell-realizes-how-little-we-understand-about-inflation/


I doubt that he doesn\'t understand increased liquidity (pandemic or
otherwise) drives inflation. But it\'s easier to say I didn\'t know
than to say I lied to you.

Yeah, but *when*? Variable lags will kill your ability to predict things.

If people don\'t understand control theory.

Nah; if it were only control theory, they\'d have had it sussed. What fails,
is human response - like when they think someone\'s lying. FDR could
convince folk to trust banks after a bank holiday... that\'s not an economics
science application, it\'s effective social engineering.
 
On Saturday, July 2, 2022 at 12:13:50 PM UTC+10, rbowman wrote:
On 07/01/2022 06:19 PM, John Larkin wrote:
On Fri, 1 Jul 2022 19:11:15 -0500, Les Cargill <lcar...@gmail.com
wrote:

Ed Lee wrote:
On Wednesday, June 29, 2022 at 5:50:55 PM UTC-7, John Larkin wrote:
https://www.breitbart.com/economy/2022/06/29/fed-chairman-powell-realizes-how-little-we-understand-about-inflation/


I doubt that he doesn\'t understand increased liquidity (pandemic or
otherwise) drives inflation. But it\'s easier to say I didn\'t know
than to say I lied to you.


Yeah, but *when*? Variable lags will kill your ability to predict things.

If people don\'t understand control theory.

If PID loops worked like economists the world would be filled with
industrial disasters.

You don\'t use PID loops to control complex systems with non-linear transfer function and lots of cross-connected inputs and outputs.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Econometrics

is designed to collect the information you\'d need to set up a control system that might work.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mathematical_economics

does seem to suggest that we haven\'t collected enough yet.

--
Bill Sloman, Sydney
 
rbowman wrote:
On 07/01/2022 06:12 PM, Les Cargill wrote:
rbowman wrote:
On 06/29/2022 08:17 PM, jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
On Wed, 29 Jun 2022 18:39:44 -0700 (PDT), Ed Lee
edward.ming.lee@gmail.com> wrote:

On Wednesday, June 29, 2022 at 5:50:55 PM UTC-7, John Larkin wrote:
https://www.breitbart.com/economy/2022/06/29/fed-chairman-powell-realizes-how-little-we-understand-about-inflation/



I doubt that he doesn\'t understand increased liquidity (pandemic or
otherwise) drives inflation.  But it\'s easier to say I didn\'t know
than to say I lied to you.

Or he doesn\'t understand basic economics.


Considering about 400 Ph.D economists work for the Fed you\'d think one
or two would have some grasp.

Considering more than 400 engineers work for Boeing, you\'d think
the 737MAX would work.

It\'s like that...

https://www.cnn.com/2022/06/30/politics/us-hypersonic-missile-test-fails/index.html



When I graduated in the \'60s RPI, the oldest technological university in
the US, was ranked in the top 3, trading places with MIT and Cal Tech.
Now it\'s tied with Florida State at #55, but it has one hell of a
performing arts center:

https://www.empac.rpi.edu/about

Maybe Boeing, General Atomics, and so forth didn\'t get the memo...  This
was decades ago but when my brother worked for Boeing they would hire a
fresh crop of engineers and fire most of them after evaluating their
performance for a year. Chopping out deadwood probably is a lot harder
in these kinder times. Unfortunately reality intrudes when you\'re
dealing with missiles and aircraft.

Parenthetically, the CHGB is destined for the Zumwalt, another expensive
design that doesn\'t work too well.

Boeing et al are run by the finance people. After all, the anthropic
principle is a harsh mistress.

Chopping out deadwood probably is a lot harder
in these kinder times.

Engineering labor is a seller\'s market now. It\'s not
out of kindness, either. It\'s all the billions sloshing towards
Gomorrah... er, Silicon Valley.

We\'re overdue for a nice bust, I think. No, not *that* kind of bust -
an economic one.

--
Les Cargill
 
whit3rd wrote:
On Friday, July 1, 2022 at 5:19:21 PM UTC-7, John Larkin wrote:
On Fri, 1 Jul 2022 19:11:15 -0500, Les Cargill <lcar...@gmail.com
wrote:
Ed Lee wrote:
On Wednesday, June 29, 2022 at 5:50:55 PM UTC-7, John Larkin wrote:
https://www.breitbart.com/economy/2022/06/29/fed-chairman-powell-realizes-how-little-we-understand-about-inflation/


I doubt that he doesn\'t understand increased liquidity (pandemic or
otherwise) drives inflation. But it\'s easier to say I didn\'t know
than to say I lied to you.

Yeah, but *when*? Variable lags will kill your ability to predict things.

If people don\'t understand control theory.

Nah; if it were only control theory, they\'d have had it sussed. What fails,
is human response - like when they think someone\'s lying. FDR could
convince folk to trust banks after a bank holiday... that\'s not an economics
science application, it\'s effective social engineering.

But controlling the money supply - which, having been done badly was the
root cause of the bank holidays - is somewhat closer to controls.

How close?

We don\'t really know. But there are at least no more WIN buttons.

--
Les Cargill
 
On Sunday, July 3, 2022 at 8:57:48 AM UTC+10, Les Cargill wrote:
rbowman wrote:
On 07/01/2022 06:12 PM, Les Cargill wrote:
rbowman wrote:
On 06/29/2022 08:17 PM, jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
On Wed, 29 Jun 2022 18:39:44 -0700 (PDT), Ed Lee
edward....@gmail.com> wrote:

On Wednesday, June 29, 2022 at 5:50:55 PM UTC-7, John Larkin wrote:
https://www.breitbart.com/economy/2022/06/29/fed-chairman-powell-realizes-how-little-we-understand-about-inflation/

I doubt that he doesn\'t understand increased liquidity (pandemic or
otherwise) drives inflation. But it\'s easier to say I didn\'t know
than to say I lied to you.

It\'s unlikely that anybody lied. John Doe posts a lot of untruth\'s but he isn\'t lying - he\'s just too dim and informed to realise that he is lying.

> >>>> Or he doesn\'t understand basic economics.

Even less likely.

> >>> Considering about 400 Ph.D economists work for the Fed you\'d think one or two would have some grasp.

Rbowman doesn\'t have enough grasp of economics to know what he wants them to know.

Considering more than 400 engineers work for Boeing, you\'d think the 737MAX would work.

It\'s like that...

https://www.cnn.com/2022/06/30/politics/us-hypersonic-missile-test-fails/index.html

When I graduated in the \'60s RPI, the oldest technological university in
the US, was ranked in the top 3, trading places with MIT and Cal Tech.
Now it\'s tied with Florida State at #55, but it has one hell of a
performing arts center:

https://www.empac.rpi.edu/about

Maybe Boeing, General Atomics, and so forth didn\'t get the memo... This
was decades ago but when my brother worked for Boeing they would hire a
fresh crop of engineers and fire most of them after evaluating their
performance for a year. Chopping out deadwood probably is a lot harder
in these kinder times. Unfortunately reality intrudes when you\'re
dealing with missiles and aircraft.

The performing arts make a lot of money, and they make it faster than you do if spends years developing a better hypersonic mouse-trap. That\'s probably the reality that is intruding here.

> > Parenthetically, the CHGB (Common-Hypersonic Glide Body) is destined for the Zumwalt, another expensive design that doesn\'t work too well.

Not all that surprising, since the weapons systems it was originally designed to lug around kept on getting cancelled.

Boeing et al are run by the finance people. After all, the anthropic principle is a harsh mistress.

Chopping out deadwood probably is a lot harder in these kinder times.

And once the word got around, the new hires weren\'t going to be all that interested in taking a job fro,m which they\'d probably be fired after the first year.
The kind of over-confident twit who is convinced that they will end up as one of the favoured few doesn\'t make a great engineer.

Engineering labor is a seller\'s market now. It\'s not out of kindness, either. It\'s all the billions sloshing towards Gomorrah... er, Silicon Valley.

We\'re overdue for a nice bust, I think. No, not *that* kind of bust - an economic one.

Economists - for all their perceived incompetence - have gotten a lot better at avoiding full-fledged depressions in recent decades.

They may not know enough about the beast they are trying to be able use control theory to keep it pointed exactly in the right direction, but they do seem to know enough to keep going in more or less the right direction.

--
Bill Sloman, Sydney
 
On Sunday, July 3, 2022 at 12:43:28 PM UTC+10, John Doe wrote:
Anthony William Sloman <bill....@ieee.org> wrote:
On Sunday, July 3, 2022 at 8:57:48 AM UTC+10, Les Cargill wrote:
rbowman wrote:
On 07/01/2022 06:12 PM, Les Cargill wrote:
rbowman wrote:
On 06/29/2022 08:17 PM, jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
On Wed, 29 Jun 2022 18:39:44 -0700 (PDT), Ed Lee
edward....@gmail.com> wrote:
On Wednesday, June 29, 2022 at 5:50:55 PM UTC-7, John Larkin wrote:

<snip>

We\'re overdue for a nice bust, I think. No, not *that* kind of bust - an economic one.

Economists - for all their perceived incompetence - have gotten a lot better at avoiding full-fledged depressions in recent decades.

They may not know enough about the beast they are trying to be able use control theory to keep it pointed exactly in the right direction, but they do seem to know enough to keep going in more or less the right direction.

John Doe knows what he doesn\'t like, but he can\'t say why, so he posts abuse recycled from other threads (which I\'ve snipped). It is a waste of bandwidth, but then again so is this.

--
Bill Sloman, Sydney
 
John Dope stated the following in message-id
<svsh05$lbh$5@dont-email.me>
(http://al.howardknight.net/?ID=164904625100) posted Fri, 4 Mar 2022
08:01:09 -0000 (UTC):

Compared to other regulars, Bozo contributes practically nothing
except insults to this group.

Yet, since Wed, 5 Jan 2022 04:10:38 -0000 (UTC) John Dope\'s post ratio
to USENET (**) has been 67.3% of its posts contributing \"nothing except
insults\" to USENET.

** Since Wed, 5 Jan 2022 04:10:38 -0000 (UTC) John Dope has posted at
least 2565 articles to USENET. Of which 176 have been pure insults and
1549 have been John Dope \"troll format\" postings.

The Troll Doe stated the following in message-id
<sdhn7c$pkp$4@dont-email.me>:

> The troll doesn\'t even know how to format a USENET post...

And the Troll Doe stated the following in message-id
<sg3kr7$qt5$1@dont-email.me>:

The reason Bozo cannot figure out how to get Google to keep from
breaking its lines in inappropriate places is because Bozo is
CLUELESS...

And yet, the clueless Troll Doe has itself posted yet another
incorrectly formatted USENET posting on Sun, 3 Jul 2022 02:43:22 -0000
(UTC) in message-id <t9qvoa$2rt8a$3@dont-email.me>.

FHvQNtztlMeL
 
On Wednesday, June 29, 2022 at 11:16:27 PM UTC-4, rbowman wrote:
On 06/29/2022 08:17 PM, jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
On Wed, 29 Jun 2022 18:39:44 -0700 (PDT), Ed Lee
edward....@gmail.com> wrote:

On Wednesday, June 29, 2022 at 5:50:55 PM UTC-7, John Larkin wrote:
https://www.breitbart.com/economy/2022/06/29/fed-chairman-powell-realizes-how-little-we-understand-about-inflation/

I doubt that he doesn\'t understand increased liquidity (pandemic or otherwise) drives inflation. But it\'s easier to say I didn\'t know than to say I lied to you.

Or he doesn\'t understand basic economics.

Considering about 400 Ph.D economists work for the Fed you\'d think one
or two would have some grasp.

You know better?

--

Rick C.

- Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging
- Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209
 
On Friday, July 1, 2022 at 8:26:59 PM UTC-4, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
On Saturday, July 2, 2022 at 10:19:21 AM UTC+10, John Larkin wrote:
On Fri, 1 Jul 2022 19:11:15 -0500, Les Cargill <lcar...@gmail.com
wrote:
Ed Lee wrote:
On Wednesday, June 29, 2022 at 5:50:55 PM UTC-7, John Larkin wrote:
https://www.breitbart.com/economy/2022/06/29/fed-chairman-powell-realizes-how-little-we-understand-about-inflation/


I doubt that he doesn\'t understand increased liquidity (pandemic or
otherwise) drives inflation. But it\'s easier to say I didn\'t know
than to say I lied to you.


Yeah, but *when*? Variable lags will kill your ability to predict things.

If people don\'t understand control theory.
The economy is a complex non-linear system. Control theory works for linear systems, or systems you can linearise. Real systems tend to stop looking linear or linearisable when they hit the rails. John Larkin seems to think that economists ought to be able to do as well at controlling a really complex system as he can do on much simpler systems, so the failure of understanding is all his.

One thing I know, is the only thing more pointless than reading Larkin\'s imaginings, is responding to his posts on his imaginings.

Sometimes this group is such a sad place to visit. Or maybe pathetic is a better word.

--

Rick C.

+ Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging
+ Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209
 

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