Easy PC software tool - Bad experience

[Roger]

Due to a bug in the Easy PC software tool from Numberone Systems, I've just
had a very time consuming and costly incident. Despite their faulty software
costing me a lot of money, the company have so far taken the "hard luck"
approach.

Has anyone else had any experience of Easy PC?

TIA,

Rog.

 

[MK]

"Roger" <rogerwilson@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:7LGdnRZPy6owCsjWnZ2dnUVZ8r-dnZ2d@brightview.co.uk...

Due to a bug in the Easy PC software tool from Numberone Systems, I've
just had a very time consuming and costly incident. Despite their faulty
software costing me a lot of money, the company have so far taken the
"hard luck" approach.

Has anyone else had any experience of Easy PC?

TIA,

Rog.

I've been using EasyPC for some years now - never had any problems at all.
What was your problem (and what version were you using) - if there is a hole
you can describe I might be able to avoid it !!

Michael Kellett

 

[colin]

On 19 Jan, 11:29, "Roger" <rogerwil...@hotmail.com> wrote:

Due to a bug in the Easy PC software tool from Numberone Systems, I've just
had a very time consuming and costly incident. Despite their faulty software
costing me a lot of money, the company have so far taken the "hard luck"
approach.

Has anyone else had any experience of Easy PC?

TIA,

Rog.

Roger

Our CAD department uses Mentor. We probably pay 50 times per seat the
cost of Easy PC. We ship the netlist with the gerbers and the PCB
manufacturers recently reported on one of my designs that the netlist
automatically generated from the gerbers showed power shorted directly
to ground.
Software is provided "as is", if you need to rely on its output you
need to be able to check it via such a third party.

Sorry to be blunt, I'm also trying to go self employed somehow and
hopefully I will then be able to feel your pain more accurately.

Colin

 

[Roger]

"colin" <colin_toogood@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:ab339519-5373-4065-9afb-c8ccfd14f011@p8g2000yqb.googlegroups.com...

On 19 Jan, 11:29, "Roger" <rogerwil...@hotmail.com> wrote:
Due to a bug in the Easy PC software tool from Numberone Systems, I've
just
had a very time consuming and costly incident. Despite their faulty
software
costing me a lot of money, the company have so far taken the "hard luck"
approach.

Has anyone else had any experience of Easy PC?

TIA,

Rog.

Roger

Our CAD department uses Mentor. We probably pay 50 times per seat the
cost of Easy PC. We ship the netlist with the gerbers and the PCB
manufacturers recently reported on one of my designs that the netlist
automatically generated from the gerbers showed power shorted directly
to ground.
Software is provided "as is", if you need to rely on its output you
need to be able to check it via such a third party.

Sorry to be blunt, I'm also trying to go self employed somehow and
hopefully I will then be able to feel your pain more accurately.

Colin

Hi Colin,

If only it were so simple! I appreciate that software is supplied "as is"
which is why I had to shrug my shoulders when the bug caused me hassle the
first time it occurred in July 09. When it re-appeared in my next design in
November 09 after allegedly being fixed and caused the PCBs to be written
off, that's when I started to feel somewhat aggrieved! Number One have said
it's a different fault - just one with exactly the same symptoms (!!) so I
shouldn't complain. I've approached them for some form of recompense or at
least a good will gesture but they won't even answer my e-mails now.

The thread about this saga on their forum shows basic gist if you can be
bothered: http://www.numberone.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=385

I hear what you say about checking everything i.e. basically trust nothing!
Good luck if you go self-employed. Choose your tools supplier well though,
not like me!

Rog.

 

[Roger]

"MK" <mk@nospam.please> wrote in message
news:NqidnSNgov_3BsjWnZ2dnUVZ8oudnZ2d@bt.com...

"Roger" <rogerwilson@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:7LGdnRZPy6owCsjWnZ2dnUVZ8r-dnZ2d@brightview.co.uk...
Due to a bug in the Easy PC software tool from Numberone Systems, I've
just had a very time consuming and costly incident. Despite their faulty
software costing me a lot of money, the company have so far taken the
"hard luck" approach.

Has anyone else had any experience of Easy PC?

TIA,

Rog.

I've been using EasyPC for some years now - never had any problems at all.
What was your problem (and what version were you using) - if there is a
hole you can describe I might be able to avoid it !!

Michael Kellett

Michael,

I too have been using EPC for some years (about 5) and hadn't had any
problems until now.

In July 09 (using version 12.0.5) I had a PCB which suffered from a signal
via also shorting a power and ground Cu pour area. I reported this and a bug
was found and allegedly fixed (up issue to 12.0.6). Software bugs crop up
and I didn't make a big deal of it.

In November 09 I had another design due for manufacture so I checked with
Support that I had the required software fix and submitted the design for
manufacture. This design had 3 vias that were again shorting Cu pour areas
within the board. As far as I can see the fault wasn't fixed despite being
told it was. The result to me was Ł1500 worth of PCBs being scrapped and an
unhappy customer due to a missed delivery deadline.

I was told that it was actually 2 faults that have exactly the same
consequence - one was fixed in July but the second wasn't detected until my
design came along in November. From the customer POV i.e. the important POV,
the same fault re-occurred. I've approached them for some form of recompense
or at
least a good will gesture but they won't even answer my e-mails now.

The vast majority of discussion has been via the user forum
http://www.numberone.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=385 i.e. the Manufacturing
Outputs, Gerber file corruption thread if you want to see more of this.

Good luck.

Rog.

 

[-jg]

On Jan 20, 10:01 am, "Roger" <rogerwil...@hotmail.com> wrote:

This design had 3 vias that were again shorting Cu pour areas
within the board.

Does it not have a Post-pour clearance/connectivity check ?

I've also seen a PCB FAB's tool set (CAM350) drop the ball : if you
give them Gerber FILL codes, CAM350 does not always quite get it
right...

That's why you should NOT use too much intelligence in your Gerber
data, and use your PCB tools checks....
(and a Mk1 eyeball helps too )

 

[Roger]

"-jg" <jim.granville@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:31d31451-4bcb-4f26-93ce-49c9346403a8@k19g2000yqc.googlegroups.com...

On Jan 20, 10:01 am, "Roger" <rogerwil...@hotmail.com> wrote:
This design had 3 vias that were again shorting Cu pour areas
within the board.

Does it not have a Post-pour clearance/connectivity check ?

I've also seen a PCB FAB's tool set (CAM350) drop the ball : if you
give them Gerber FILL codes, CAM350 does not always quite get it
right...

That's why you should NOT use too much intelligence in your Gerber
data, and use your PCB tools checks....
(and a Mk1 eyeball helps too )

Jim,

The DRC tool checks the clearances and connectivity of the design within the
EPC environment. The fault appears when the Gerber files are generated i.e.
the Gerbers had the Cu touching the vias whereas this wasn't the case when
still in the design environment. The DRC obviously reports no problems as it
works within the EPC environment.

Interesting what you say about the FILL codes, I've not heard of that
before.

Rog.

 

[Gabor]

On Jan 19, 3:48 pm, "Roger" <rogerwil...@hotmail.com> wrote:

"colin" <colin_toog...@yahoo.com> wrote in message

news:ab339519-5373-4065-9afb-c8ccfd14f011@p8g2000yqb.googlegroups.com...



On 19 Jan, 11:29, "Roger" <rogerwil...@hotmail.com> wrote:
Due to a bug in the Easy PC software tool from Numberone Systems, I've
just
had a very time consuming and costly incident. Despite their faulty
software
costing me a lot of money, the company have so far taken the "hard luck"
approach.

Has anyone else had any experience of Easy PC?

TIA,

Rog.

Roger

Our CAD department uses Mentor. We probably pay 50 times per seat the
cost of Easy PC. We ship the netlist with the gerbers and the PCB
manufacturers recently reported on one of my designs that the netlist
automatically generated from the gerbers showed power shorted directly
to ground.
Software is provided "as is", if you need to rely on its output you
need to be able to check it via such a third party.

Sorry to be blunt, I'm also trying to go self employed somehow and
hopefully I will then be able to feel your pain more accurately.

Colin

Hi Colin,

If only it were so simple! I appreciate that software is supplied "as is"
which is why I had to shrug my shoulders when the bug caused me hassle the
first time it occurred in July 09. When it re-appeared in my next design in
November 09 after allegedly being fixed and caused the PCBs to be written
off, that's when I started to feel somewhat aggrieved! Number One have said
it's a different fault - just one with exactly the same symptoms (!!) so I
shouldn't complain. I've approached them for some form of recompense or at
least a good will gesture but they won't even answer my e-mails now.

The thread about this saga on their forum shows basic gist if you can be
bothered:http://www.numberone.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=385

I hear what you say about checking everything i.e. basically trust nothing!
Good luck if you go self-employed. Choose your tools supplier well though,
not like me!

Rog.

I've never used EasyPC, but have had similar problems with PADS.
The main problem is the disconnect between the design database
and the Gerber output. Our company always does extensive post
design checks before sending the Gerbers to fabrication. We also
require the fab house to check the Gerbers to the IPC netlist
generated directly from the PADS database. This is where this
type of problem usually gets discovered. If the fab house only
uses the IPC netlist to run electrical test after fabrication,
you lose a lot of time and money. If you let the fab house
run the electrical tests from the Gerbers without supplying
an IPC netlist, then you can lose even more.

Regards,
Gabor

 

[-jg]

On Jan 20, 11:37 pm, "Roger" <rogerwil...@hotmail.com> wrote:

"-jg" <jim.granvi...@gmail.com> wrote in message

news:31d31451-4bcb-4f26-93ce-49c9346403a8@k19g2000yqc.googlegroups.com...

On Jan 20, 10:01 am, "Roger" <rogerwil...@hotmail.com> wrote:
This design had 3 vias that were again shorting Cu pour areas
within the board.

Does it not have a Post-pour clearance/connectivity check ?

I've also seen a PCB FAB's tool set (CAM350) drop the ball : if you
give them Gerber FILL codes, CAM350 does not always quite get it
right...

That's why you should NOT use too much intelligence in your Gerber
data, and use your PCB tools checks....
(and a Mk1  eyeball helps too )

Jim,

The DRC tool checks the clearances and connectivity of the design within the
EPC environment. The fault appears when the Gerber files are generated i.e.
the Gerbers had the Cu touching the vias whereas this wasn't the case when
still in the design environment. The DRC obviously reports no problems as it
works within the EPC environment.
?! A good tool should use the SAME dataset for DRC, as it does for

Gerber plotting.
- in fact, it is usually MORE work, to do otherwise.

Did you verify the Gerbers in a viewer ?

Interesting what you say about the FILL codes, I've not heard of that
before.

Yes, shows the risks of allowing a downstream tool, to generate copper
data. Especially if that copper data is OUTSIDE the DRC process, and
it drops the ball...

Nett Result is exactly the same issue you hit: Pour areas with too
much copper. (aka missing voids)..

Fill codes have their place for padstacks, but NOT for larger copper
areas, with voids, cutouts and what may be varying plot orders...

-jg

 

[Roger]

"-jg" <jim.granville@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:b856ac87-c122-4222-b1b4-7ab0f4f61f34@14g2000yqp.googlegroups.com...

On Jan 20, 11:37 pm, "Roger" <rogerwil...@hotmail.com> wrote:
"-jg" <jim.granvi...@gmail.com> wrote in message

news:31d31451-4bcb-4f26-93ce-49c9346403a8@k19g2000yqc.googlegroups.com...

On Jan 20, 10:01 am, "Roger" <rogerwil...@hotmail.com> wrote:
This design had 3 vias that were again shorting Cu pour areas
within the board.

Does it not have a Post-pour clearance/connectivity check ?

I've also seen a PCB FAB's tool set (CAM350) drop the ball : if you
give them Gerber FILL codes, CAM350 does not always quite get it
right...

That's why you should NOT use too much intelligence in your Gerber
data, and use your PCB tools checks....
(and a Mk1 eyeball helps too )

Jim,

The DRC tool checks the clearances and connectivity of the design within
the
EPC environment. The fault appears when the Gerber files are generated
i.e.
the Gerbers had the Cu touching the vias whereas this wasn't the case
when
still in the design environment. The DRC obviously reports no problems as
it
works within the EPC environment.
?! A good tool should use the SAME dataset for DRC, as it does for
Gerber plotting.
- in fact, it is usually MORE work, to do otherwise.

Did you verify the Gerbers in a viewer ?


Interesting what you say about the FILL codes, I've not heard of that
before.

Yes, shows the risks of allowing a downstream tool, to generate copper
data. Especially if that copper data is OUTSIDE the DRC process, and
it drops the ball...

Nett Result is exactly the same issue you hit: Pour areas with too
much copper. (aka missing voids)..

Fill codes have their place for padstacks, but NOT for larger copper
areas, with voids, cutouts and what may be varying plot orders...

-jg

Jim,

Are these the G36 and G37 codes?

Rog.

 

[-jg]

On Jan 22, 12:10 am, "Roger" <rogerwil...@hotmail.com> wrote:

Jim,

Are these the G36 and G37 codes?

Yes. Use them with caution, and I'd suggest NEVER for copper pour
areas. Restrict them to purely local 'nn nested' type entities, like
fonts, and pad-shapes.

-jg

 

On Tuesday, 19 January 2010 11:29:56 UTC, Roger wrote:

Due to a bug in the Easy PC software tool from Numberone Systems, I've just
had a very time consuming and costly incident....

I just sent off a last minute design to China with NO copper pour (deadlines mean I just had to fatten tracks and try to ignore CE TCFs etc). Worked fine on earlier version of the board but .. no go on this one. Forums full of similar complaints, but no solution.

In addition, I must be one of their 1st customers, and over the years I've spent way more than 1K on it, so Colin, don't go preaching the You get what you Pay For line .

However, I am also a software developer and I have sympathy for No1. What would be a good-will gesture that doesn't seriously hit their bottom line?

The difficulty is getting paid without doing endless updates, and with endless updates comes change, and .. it sure ain't "Easy" PC anymore. There must be something easier out there. The Help on it does my head in (I can see they've tried, but when you are sitting there thinking .. how do I do that? Don't bother looking at help!).

Summary: They could do with a clear out. Copper Pour needs a re-write. The rest needs simplifying, as after all it was never a tool for corporate needs, but it was a good tool for serious professional with low volume requirements. They have my continued support. Just.

 

[MK]

On 03/09/2014 02:42, quarrie92@googlemail.com wrote:

On Tuesday, 19 January 2010 11:29:56 UTC, Roger wrote:
Due to a bug in the Easy PC software tool from Numberone Systems, I've just
had a very time consuming and costly incident....

I just sent off a last minute design to China with NO copper pour (deadlines mean I just had to fatten tracks and try to ignore CE TCFs etc). Worked fine on earlier version of the board but .. no go on this one. Forums full of similar complaints, but no solution.

In addition, I must be one of their 1st customers, and over the years I've spent way more than 1K on it, so Colin, don't go preaching the You get what you Pay For line .

However, I am also a software developer and I have sympathy for No1. What would be a good-will gesture that doesn't seriously hit their bottom line?

The difficulty is getting paid without doing endless updates, and with endless updates comes change, and .. it sure ain't "Easy" PC anymore. There must be something easier out there. The Help on it does my head in (I can see they've tried, but when you are sitting there thinking .. how do I do that? Don't bother looking at help!).

Summary: They could do with a clear out. Copper Pour needs a re-write. The rest needs simplifying, as after all it was never a tool for corporate needs, but it was a good tool for serious professional with low volume requirements. They have my continued support. Just.

Not quite sure why you are posting this as a response to a 4 year old
post but I'm assuming that your comment is current.
I'm a long term user of EasyPC and I don't agree with most of your
comments at all. It still is a very simple and low cost tool. And
although the copper pour still has issues the general reliability of the
product is much better than the much more expensive PCB cad tools I've used.
The Help, as with anything , could be better but it's not bad.

(BTW - if you get stuck with a copper pour problem then reduce the pour
area until you locate the offending item that it won't pour round - this
will usually get you out of immediate trouble. And do tell No1 about the
problem - they do fix stuff.)

Michael Kellett