Driving a design via TCP/IP

N

Nial Stewart

Guest
Hello all,

I've had an enquiry in about a project that is mostly simple enough,
I'll be using an FPGA for what's required, the fly in the ointment is
the client wants the thing unit via TCP/IP.

All the ethernet interface is going to be used for is driving and reading
internal registers, it could very easily be done via RS-422 (which is an
option) but it looks like they definitely want TCP/IP.

One approach would be to implement a NIOS core with OS and network stacks,
I'd have to outsource setting this all up. This really does seem to be
a lot of added complexity required both in FPGA resource and external
components required to support the NIOS.

It would also require licensing the NIOS IPS-Embedded suite and an
OS (or does it?) which isn't cheap.

Another approach would be to use a microcontroler with embedded TCP/IP
stack and MAC and use this to drive the FPGA via an external bus,
although I think an SPI bus might be sufficient.

I have designed a couple of boards with an ethernet interface but this
was to an ARM device where a SW engineer had the responsibility of getting
it all set up and working.

Can anyone comment on the difficulty of implementing an ethernet interface
with a NIOS core, or advise on a small simple microcontroller that would
make this all much simpler.

Thanks in advance,

Nial.
 
On Wed, 6 Oct 2010 16:32:26 +0100, "Nial Stewart"
<nial*REMOVE_THIS*@nialstewartdevelopments.co.uk> wrote:

Hello all,

I've had an enquiry in about a project that is mostly simple enough,
I'll be using an FPGA for what's required, the fly in the ointment is
the client wants the thing unit via TCP/IP.

All the ethernet interface is going to be used for is driving and reading
internal registers, it could very easily be done via RS-422 (which is an
option) but it looks like they definitely want TCP/IP.

One approach would be to implement a NIOS core with OS and network stacks,
I'd have to outsource setting this all up. This really does seem to be
a lot of added complexity required both in FPGA resource and external
components required to support the NIOS.

It would also require licensing the NIOS IPS-Embedded suite and an
OS (or does it?) which isn't cheap.

Another approach would be to use a microcontroler with embedded TCP/IP
stack and MAC and use this to drive the FPGA via an external bus,
although I think an SPI bus might be sufficient.

I have designed a couple of boards with an ethernet interface but this
was to an ARM device where a SW engineer had the responsibility of getting
it all set up and working.

Can anyone comment on the difficulty of implementing an ethernet interface
with a NIOS core, or advise on a small simple microcontroller that would
make this all much simpler.
Click to expand...
Depending on where you are on the build/buy curve, the little XPort
gizmos are often an easy answer. From the inside of the box, looking
out, it appears as a serial port. From the outside it handles UDP/IP or
TCP/IP (configurable). Could be a good fit for configuration & status.

<http://www.lantronix.com/device-networking/embedded-device-servers/xport.html>

--
Rich Webb Norfolk, VA
 
On 10/6/2010 4:32 PM, Nial Stewart wrote:

Can anyone comment on the difficulty of implementing an ethernet interface
with a NIOS core, or advise on a small simple microcontroller that would
make this all much simpler.

Thanks in advance,

Nial.
Click to expand...

http://www.fpga4fun.com/10BASE-T.html

Any help?

Syms.
 
Depending on where you are on the build/buy curve, the little XPort
gizmos are often an easy answer. From the inside of the box, looking
out, it appears as a serial port. From the outside it handles UDP/IP or
TCP/IP (configurable). Could be a good fit for configuration & status.

http://www.lantronix.com/device-networking/embedded-device-servers/xport.html
Click to expand...


Thanks Rich, I'm completely open to any solution which simply provides
TCP/IP access to the unit.

That looks like an ideal solution!


Nial.
 
http://www.fpga4fun.com/10BASE-T.html
Any help?
Syms.
Click to expand...

Aye possibly although I'd prefer a 'canned' solution where possible.

From what I've got so far the main portion of the design is a week
or two's work. I don't want to have to spend another month getting the
e'net connectivity working.


Nial.
 
Rich Webb wrote:

On Wed, 6 Oct 2010 16:32:26 +0100, "Nial Stewart"

Can anyone comment on the difficulty of implementing an ethernet interface
with a NIOS core, or advise on a small simple microcontroller that would
make this all much simpler.

Depending on where you are on the build/buy curve, the little XPort
gizmos are often an easy answer. From the inside of the box, looking
out, it appears as a serial port. From the outside it handles UDP/IP or
TCP/IP (configurable). Could be a good fit for configuration & status.

http://www.lantronix.com/device-networking/embedded-device-
servers/xport.html
Click to expand...

A similar device providing the equivalent of four AF_INET sockets on a chip
and speaking SPI or memory-bus connection is

<http://www.wiznet.co.kr/Sub_Modules/en/product/Product_Detail.asp?cate1=5&cate2=7&cate3=26&pid=1011>

or a module based on it

<http://www.saelig.com/BRD/ETH027.htm>

These chips/boards are the ones I used. There are probably more recent
versions.

Mel.
 
On 10/6/2010 4:59 PM, Nial Stewart wrote:
http://www.fpga4fun.com/10BASE-T.html
Any help?
Syms.


Aye possibly although I'd prefer a 'canned' solution where possible.

From what I've got so far the main portion of the design is a week
or two's work. I don't want to have to spend another month getting the
e'net connectivity working.


Nial.


Yep, the solutions from the other posts are much better. A bit like
Click to expand...
those USB thingies from FTDI.

Syms.
 
Yep, the solutions from the other posts are much better. A bit like those USB thingies from FTDI.
Click to expand...

Aye that's what I'm looking for, I don't want to have to do anything
actually difficult!

:)


Nial.
 
"Nial Stewart" <nial*REMOVE_THIS*@nialstewartdevelopments.co.uk>
wrote:

Hello all,

I've had an enquiry in about a project that is mostly simple enough,
I'll be using an FPGA for what's required, the fly in the ointment is
the client wants the thing unit via TCP/IP.

All the ethernet interface is going to be used for is driving and reading
internal registers, it could very easily be done via RS-422 (which is an
option) but it looks like they definitely want TCP/IP.

One approach would be to implement a NIOS core with OS and network stacks,
I'd have to outsource setting this all up. This really does seem to be
a lot of added complexity required both in FPGA resource and external
components required to support the NIOS.

It would also require licensing the NIOS IPS-Embedded suite and an
OS (or does it?) which isn't cheap.

Another approach would be to use a microcontroler with embedded TCP/IP
stack and MAC and use this to drive the FPGA via an external bus,
although I think an SPI bus might be sufficient.

I have designed a couple of boards with an ethernet interface but this
was to an ARM device where a SW engineer had the responsibility of getting
it all set up and working.

Can anyone comment on the difficulty of implementing an ethernet interface
with a NIOS core, or advise on a small simple microcontroller that would
make this all much simpler.
Click to expand...
FreeRtos (freertos.org) + NXP LPC17xx.

--
Failure does not prove something is impossible, failure simply
indicates you are not using the right tools...
nico@nctdevpuntnl (punt=.)
--------------------------------------------------------------
 
Nial Stewart wrote:
Hello all,

I've had an enquiry in about a project that is mostly simple enough,
I'll be using an FPGA for what's required, the fly in the ointment is
the client wants the thing unit via TCP/IP.

All the ethernet interface is going to be used for is driving and reading
internal registers, it could very easily be done via RS-422 (which is an
option) but it looks like they definitely want TCP/IP.
Click to expand...
If it is not specified how the TCP/IP is to be used,
you can design a simple request-response exchange
based on simple UDP packets. It is not too tedious
to implement the protocol stack up to UDP even for
raw silicon. The difficult beast is TCP.

Another approach would be to use a microcontroler with embedded TCP/IP
stack and MAC and use this to drive the FPGA via an external bus,
although I think an SPI bus might be sufficient.
Click to expand...
Get a controller with Ethernet and SPI, e.g.
Stellaris LM3S6965. The dev board is pretty inexpensive
(less than 100 USD, IIRC) and you should be able to do
the required networking with it for testing.

--

Tauno Voipio
tauno voipio (at) iki fi
 
Tauno Voipio <tauno.voipio@notused.fi.invalid> writes:

Get a controller with Ethernet and SPI, e.g.
Stellaris LM3S6965. The dev board is pretty inexpensive
(less than 100 USD, IIRC) and you should be able to do
the required networking with it for testing.
Click to expand...
Seem to be quite similar to the FreeScale MCF5223X. Are there any
other TCP/IP stacks other than Internice available for the LM3S6965?

Petter
--
..sig removed by request.
 
On Wed, 6 Oct 2010 16:32:26 +0100, "Nial Stewart"
<nial*REMOVE_THIS*@nialstewartdevelopments.co.uk> wrote:

Can anyone comment on the difficulty of implementing an ethernet interface
with a NIOS core, or advise on a small simple microcontroller that would
make this all much simpler.
Click to expand...
There are any number of 32 bit single-chip controllers with enough
on-chip Flash and RAM to run a TCP/IP stack and a an application.
We've used plenty of NXP devices from the LPC23xx and LPC17xx
families. There are also the Stellaris/TI devices LM3S9B9x.
Freescale have plenty of Coldfire devices, e.g. MCF52259.
Some of these have external bus interfaces if that makes
interfacing the FPGA any easier.

Stephen


--
Stephen Pelc, stephenXXX@mpeforth.com
MicroProcessor Engineering Ltd - More Real, Less Time
133 Hill Lane, Southampton SO15 5AF, England
tel: +44 (0)23 8063 1441, fax: +44 (0)23 8033 9691
web: http://www.mpeforth.com - free VFX Forth downloads
 
Nial Stewart wrote:

Hello all,

I've had an enquiry in about a project that is mostly simple enough,
I'll be using an FPGA for what's required, the fly in the ointment is
the client wants the thing unit via TCP/IP.

All the ethernet interface is going to be used for is driving and reading
internal registers, it could very easily be done via RS-422 (which is an
option) but it looks like they definitely want TCP/IP.
Click to expand...

Not the only place but if the RS422 option is what you feel comfortable with
you could use one of these as the Ethernet interface.

<http://www1.shopping.com/physical-interface-module-ic485ip-1/products>

Might save you some work if the network speed you require is not that fast.

--
********************************************************************
Paul E. Bennett...............<email://Paul_E.Bennett@topmail.co.uk>
Forth based HIDECS Consultancy
Mob: +44 (0)7811-639972
Tel: +44 (0)1235-510979
Going Forth Safely ..... EBA. www.electric-boat-association.org.uk..
********************************************************************
 
Petter Gustad wrote:
Tauno Voipio <tauno.voipio@notused.fi.invalid> writes:

Get a controller with Ethernet and SPI, e.g.
Stellaris LM3S6965. The dev board is pretty inexpensive
(less than 100 USD, IIRC) and you should be able to do
the required networking with it for testing.

Seem to be quite similar to the FreeScale MCF5223X. Are there any
other TCP/IP stacks other than Internice available for the LM3S6965?
Click to expand...
There are uIP and LwIP with the dev kit. I'm running my own.

--

Tauno Voipio
 
FreeRtos (freertos.org) + NXP LPC17xx.
Click to expand...

Thanks Nico but this isn't much simpler than implementing an OS & TCP/IP
on a NIOS (I presume).


Nial.
 
Thanks Nico but this isn't much simpler than implementing an OS & TCP/IP
on a NIOS (I presume).

Yes it is. It's way, way, way, simpler.

I've used a NIOS core. There's nothing even remotely simple about it.
Click to expand...
I'm OK with setting the NIOS system up, it's integrating the OS and
TCP/IP stack I haven't got a clue about.


It looks like the Lantronix XPort or a Wiznet chip (if volumes are big
enough) is the easiest way for me to get this done.

Thanks all for your feedback.


Nial.
 
On 2010-10-07, Nial Stewart <nial*REMOVE_THIS*@nialstewartdevelopments.co.uk> wrote:
FreeRtos (freertos.org) + NXP LPC17xx.


Thanks Nico but this isn't much simpler than implementing an OS & TCP/IP
on a NIOS (I presume).
Click to expand...
Yes it is. It's way, way, way, simpler.

I've used a NIOS core. There's nothing even remotely simple about it.
[And we never did get the OpenCores Ethernet MAC to work very well.]

--
Grant Edwards grant.b.edwards Yow! I'm thinking about
at DIGITAL READ-OUT systems
gmail.com and computer-generated
IMAGE FORMATIONS ...
 
On Oct 7, 3:26 pm, "Nial Stewart"
<nial*REMOVE_TH...@nialstewartdevelopments.co.uk> wrote:
Thanks Nico but this isn't much simpler than implementing an OS & TCP/IP
on a NIOS (I presume).

Yes it is.  It's way, way, way, simpler.

I've used a NIOS core.  There's nothing even remotely simple about it..

I'm OK with setting the NIOS system up, it's integrating the OS and
TCP/IP stack I haven't got a clue about.

[And we never did get the OpenCores Ethernet MAC to work very well.]

It looks like the Lantronix XPort or a Wiznet chip (if volumes are big
enough) is the easiest way for me to get this done.

Thanks all for your feedback.

Nial.
Click to expand...
Hi Nial

I have been using Wiznet in a number of 'in production' designs for
the last 4 years. Currently the W5300 or module with the same would be
the best choice. I evaluated the other options but required > 50Mb/s
and ability to use only UDP (harsh industial heavy welding
environments along with real time data meant TCP retries would not be
desirable to say the least).
A few registers to set up (from the client side) and thereafter it's
akin to FTDI.
The Wiznet chip cost is in the same ball park as a separate PHY or MAC/
PHY in 100 to 1k volume. Can buy from Wiznet (watch out for the new
VAT customs rubbish) or from their UK disty (Hero?)

Regards

DG
 
I have been using Wiznet in a number of 'in production' designs for
the last 4 years. Currently the W5300 or module with the same would be
the best choice. I evaluated the other options but required > 50Mb/s
and ability to use only UDP (harsh industial heavy welding
environments along with real time data meant TCP retries would not be
desirable to say the least).
A few registers to set up (from the client side) and thereafter it's
akin to FTDI.
Click to expand...

Thanks David, it's an industrial environment this is going into so this
is useful to know.



Nial.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Welcome to EDABoard.com

Sponsor

Back
Top