Drafting pen and PCB artwork touchup

O

Oparr

Guest
Marker tips are just not fine enough for touching up .25 mm or smaller
tracks without having to scrape away the excess, has anyone ever tried a
drafting pen/permanent ink combo for this? If so, any recommendations in
terms of pen and ink? Has to handle both film and bare copper.
 
Oparr wrote:

Marker tips are just not fine enough for touching up .25 mm or smaller
tracks without having to scrape away the excess, has anyone ever
tried a drafting pen/permanent ink combo for this? If so, any
recommendations in terms of pen and ink? Has to handle both film and
bare copper.
Click to expand...
we always used drafting tape for touch up
 
000 Keufel & Esser pen with Penquin ink

Oparr wrote:
Marker tips are just not fine enough for touching up .25 mm or smaller
tracks without having to scrape away the excess, has anyone ever tried a
drafting pen/permanent ink combo for this? If so, any recommendations in
terms of pen and ink? Has to handle both film and bare copper.
Click to expand...
 
On Mon, 7 Jun 2004 20:41:05 -0400, Oparr wrote:

Marker tips are just not fine enough for touching up .25 mm or smaller
tracks without having to scrape away the excess, has anyone ever tried a
drafting pen/permanent ink combo for this? If so, any recommendations in
terms of pen and ink? Has to handle both film and bare copper.
Click to expand...
You can find other inks that have been used if you google the hell
out of this.
--
Best Regards,
Mike
 
"Oparr" <oparr@nowhere.com> wrote in message news:<PS7xc.180$NU5.6541@eagle.america.net>...
Marker tips are just not fine enough for touching up .25 mm or smaller
tracks without having to scrape away the excess, has anyone ever tried a
drafting pen/permanent ink combo for this? If so, any recommendations in
terms of pen and ink? Has to handle both film and bare copper.
Click to expand...
I once modified the photograph (do they still use photography?) using
an indelible marker. I deliberately marked *both* sides of the film in
case (when) the track got scratched through.

Cheers
Robin
 
Why not talk to a PCB manufacturer... they do it all the time. In the old
days I used to touch up plots up using a good quality fine tip drafting pen
and very dark ink. this always worked well. A good quality Indian ink is
useful.. just don't buy the cheap stuff.. too much water in it.

Simon


<robin.pain@tesco.net> wrote in message
news:bd24a397.0406072352.eddc351@posting.google.com...
"Oparr" <oparr@nowhere.com> wrote in message
news:<PS7xc.180$NU5.6541@eagle.america.net>...
Marker tips are just not fine enough for touching up .25 mm or smaller
tracks without having to scrape away the excess, has anyone ever tried a
drafting pen/permanent ink combo for this? If so, any recommendations in
terms of pen and ink? Has to handle both film and bare copper.

I once modified the photograph (do they still use photography?) using
an indelible marker. I deliberately marked *both* sides of the film in
case (when) the track got scratched through.

Cheers
Robin
Click to expand...
 
"robin.pain@tesco.net" wrote:
I once modified the photograph (do they still use photography?) using
an indelible marker. I deliberately marked *both* sides of the film in
case (when) the track got scratched through.

Cheers
Robin
Click to expand...
Mark only the emulsion side unless it won't take ink. A "shadow" can
result from marking the other side.

Photographic process isn't much used by production PWB houses any more
(NC laser used instead), but is still sometimes used for curing the
photo-etch resin with a UV box by companies making their own onesy-twosy
prototypes.

Mark 'Sporky' Stapleton
Watermark Design, LLC
http://www.h2omarkdesign.com
 
Thanks to all who responded. Got a Rapidograph and two extra point sizes for
line widths .13, .18 and .25 mm. Tried 5 inks, two of which claimed to be
permanent and the rest waterproof, tested with the .13 mm point only and
touching up .010" tracks is no longer a problem. However, none of these inks
are able to withstand the etchant (ammonium persulphate) for more than a few
seconds when it comes to bare copper touchup. The so called permanent inks
on bare copper were able to withstand plain water under the same agitated
conditions for at least 20 minutes (didn't test any longer). Bottom
line.....When a marker claims to be permanent then it is on most surfaces
and under most conditions but the same cannot be said of inks that claim to
be permanent.

BTW, avoid the following for transparency or copper touchup;

Micron fine line drawing pens (.20 mm and up)
Higgins inks from Sanford (AFAIK, the same people who make Sharpie markers)

If only Sanford had a permanent ink one tenth as good as the ink in Sharpie
markers.



"Sporkman" <sporkedUNDERLINEagainMUNGE@bigfootDOT.com> wrote in message
news:40C5B456.ABFA584A@bigfootDOT.com...
"robin.pain@tesco.net" wrote:
I once modified the photograph (do they still use photography?) using
an indelible marker. I deliberately marked *both* sides of the film in
case (when) the track got scratched through.

Cheers
Robin

Mark only the emulsion side unless it won't take ink. A "shadow" can
result from marking the other side.

Photographic process isn't much used by production PWB houses any more
(NC laser used instead), but is still sometimes used for curing the
photo-etch resin with a UV box by companies making their own onesy-twosy
prototypes.

Mark 'Sporky' Stapleton
Watermark Design, LLC
http://www.h2omarkdesign.com
Click to expand...
 
Reading your post I got this image of a bunch of mangled sharpie's in a
grape press :).

Oparr wrote:

Thanks to all who responded. Got a Rapidograph and two extra point sizes for
line widths .13, .18 and .25 mm. Tried 5 inks, two of which claimed to be
permanent and the rest waterproof, tested with the .13 mm point only and
touching up .010" tracks is no longer a problem. However, none of these inks
are able to withstand the etchant (ammonium persulphate) for more than a few
seconds when it comes to bare copper touchup. The so called permanent inks
on bare copper were able to withstand plain water under the same agitated
conditions for at least 20 minutes (didn't test any longer). Bottom
line.....When a marker claims to be permanent then it is on most surfaces
and under most conditions but the same cannot be said of inks that claim to
be permanent.

BTW, avoid the following for transparency or copper touchup;

Micron fine line drawing pens (.20 mm and up)
Higgins inks from Sanford (AFAIK, the same people who make Sharpie markers)

If only Sanford had a permanent ink one tenth as good as the ink in Sharpie
markers.



"Sporkman" <sporkedUNDERLINEagainMUNGE@bigfootDOT.com> wrote in message
news:40C5B456.ABFA584A@bigfootDOT.com...

"robin.pain@tesco.net" wrote:

I once modified the photograph (do they still use photography?) using
an indelible marker. I deliberately marked *both* sides of the film in
case (when) the track got scratched through.

Cheers
Robin

Mark only the emulsion side unless it won't take ink. A "shadow" can
result from marking the other side.

Photographic process isn't much used by production PWB houses any more
(NC laser used instead), but is still sometimes used for curing the
photo-etch resin with a UV box by companies making their own onesy-twosy
prototypes.

Mark 'Sporky' Stapleton
Watermark Design, LLC
http://www.h2omarkdesign.com
Click to expand...

--

Tim Wescott
Wescott Design Services
http://www.wescottdesign.com
 
Actually, extracting the ink from Sharpie markers shouldn't be that
difficult. It's alcohol based with methanol (aka methyl/wood alcohol)
probably being the best solvent. A q-tip soaked in isopropyl (aka rubbing)
alcohol will remove it easily from transparencies, bare copper and other
non-porous surfaces. Theoretically, one should be able to break open a few
and soak them in alcohol in an airtight container then allow the right
amount of alcohol to evaporate. But why do that when there are refillable
markers out there that must use available ink? Just how permanent are these
inks is another question.

"Tim Wescott" <tim@wescottnospamdesign.com> wrote in message
news:10cf2pqna4n3v61@corp.supernews.com...
Reading your post I got this image of a bunch of mangled sharpie's in a
grape press :).

Oparr wrote:

Thanks to all who responded. Got a Rapidograph and two extra point sizes
for
line widths .13, .18 and .25 mm. Tried 5 inks, two of which claimed to
be
permanent and the rest waterproof, tested with the .13 mm point only and
touching up .010" tracks is no longer a problem. However, none of these
inks
are able to withstand the etchant (ammonium persulphate) for more than a
few
seconds when it comes to bare copper touchup. The so called permanent
inks
on bare copper were able to withstand plain water under the same
agitated
conditions for at least 20 minutes (didn't test any longer). Bottom
line.....When a marker claims to be permanent then it is on most
surfaces
and under most conditions but the same cannot be said of inks that claim
to
be permanent.

BTW, avoid the following for transparency or copper touchup;

Micron fine line drawing pens (.20 mm and up)
Higgins inks from Sanford (AFAIK, the same people who make Sharpie
markers)

If only Sanford had a permanent ink one tenth as good as the ink in
Sharpie
markers.



"Sporkman" <sporkedUNDERLINEagainMUNGE@bigfootDOT.com> wrote in message
news:40C5B456.ABFA584A@bigfootDOT.com...

"robin.pain@tesco.net" wrote:

I once modified the photograph (do they still use photography?) using
an indelible marker. I deliberately marked *both* sides of the film in
case (when) the track got scratched through.

Cheers
Robin

Mark only the emulsion side unless it won't take ink. A "shadow" can
result from marking the other side.

Photographic process isn't much used by production PWB houses any more
(NC laser used instead), but is still sometimes used for curing the
photo-etch resin with a UV box by companies making their own onesy-twosy
prototypes.

Mark 'Sporky' Stapleton
Watermark Design, LLC
http://www.h2omarkdesign.com





--

Tim Wescott
Wescott Design Services
http://www.wescottdesign.com
Click to expand...
 
I used a letraset uv marker pen when I needed to fix tracks, or to
make a solid area on bare boards. This pen had three tips, a fat one
on one end, and a double cap on the other end which gave two tip
sizes.

I used it with ferric chloride and was pleased with the results.

Because it was a uv filter ink I was also able to fix film artwork.

Bill Jenkins


On Mon, 7 Jun 2004 20:41:05 -0400, "Oparr" <oparr@nowhere.com> wrote:

Marker tips are just not fine enough for touching up .25 mm or smaller
tracks without having to scrape away the excess, has anyone ever tried a
drafting pen/permanent ink combo for this? If so, any recommendations in
terms of pen and ink? Has to handle both film and bare copper.
Click to expand...
 
You can buy these with permanent ink or empty and fill them with whatever.
They come with either .013" or .031" orifices.

http://www.antengineering.com/engineering/ANT_MET_Intro.htm


PF



"Oparr" <oparr@nowhere.com> wrote in message
news:pS7xc.180$NU5.6541@eagle.america.net...
Marker tips are just not fine enough for touching up .25 mm or smaller
tracks without having to scrape away the excess, has anyone ever tried a
drafting pen/permanent ink combo for this? If so, any recommendations in
terms of pen and ink? Has to handle both film and bare copper.
Click to expand...
 
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