Dot Matrix Printer - WTB

[mpm]

Can someone recommend a (sub-$900) new, current production model dot matrix printer? I plan to use it on Windows-7, USB.

My strong preference is for a wide carriage, but I could probably live with 80 columns given some compelling reasons, such as performance or reliability, etc..
I'm looking at: OKI62434101 - Oki Microline 691 24-Pin Wide Carriage Dot Matrix Printer.

If anyone has personal experience with this exact model (or even the smaller 690) I'd really appreciate hearing your thoughts and experience with it.

I just want something that is reliable and prints with reasonably good speed (for a dot matrix) and quality. The application is making printouts for assembly language programs.

I realize a laser or inkjet is the modern-day alternative, if one were going to print it at all.

But I actually PREFER to archive, review and update code the old-fashioned way - i.e., having the printout in a Presstex/ACCO hanging binder.

My last dot matrix (a Panasonic) finally died, and while I have spent most of this past year trying to get accustomed to different bindings, it just isn't happening. (Note: That's a sure sign of getting old!)

OKI and Epson seem to be the only ones making these things anymore?

Thanks in advance, as always.
-mpm

 

[bitrex]

On 10/6/19 11:45 AM, mpm wrote:

Can someone recommend a (sub-$900) new, current production model dot matrix printer? I plan to use it on Windows-7, USB.

My strong preference is for a wide carriage, but I could probably live with 80 columns given some compelling reasons, such as performance or reliability, etc..
I'm looking at: OKI62434101 - Oki Microline 691 24-Pin Wide Carriage Dot Matrix Printer.

If anyone has personal experience with this exact model (or even the smaller 690) I'd really appreciate hearing your thoughts and experience with it.

I just want something that is reliable and prints with reasonably good speed (for a dot matrix) and quality. The application is making printouts for assembly language programs.

I realize a laser or inkjet is the modern-day alternative, if one were going to print it at all.

But I actually PREFER to archive, review and update code the old-fashioned way - i.e., having the printout in a Presstex/ACCO hanging binder.

My last dot matrix (a Panasonic) finally died, and while I have spent most of this past year trying to get accustomed to different bindings, it just isn't happening. (Note: That's a sure sign of getting old!)

OKI and Epson seem to be the only ones making these things anymore?

Thanks in advance, as always.
-mpm

i'd go with whatever you expect will have the best ribbon availability
down the road. I'll expect you'll still be able to buy Epson ribbons,
but "Okidata"??

 

[Jeff Liebermann]

On Sun, 6 Oct 2019 08:45:52 -0700 (PDT), mpm <mpmillard@aol.com>
wrote:

Can someone recommend a (sub-$900) new, current production
model dot matrix printer? I plan to use it on Windows-7, USB.

No, I can't recommend dot matrix printer. Unless you have a lifetime
supply of multi-part NCR (no carbon required) forms, I don't see it as
a good idea.

I have to deal with a customer that has exactly that problem. My
guess is they have about 8 working Oki 320/321, 390/391, 420/421
series printers, and an equal number of printers I've been slowly
rebuilding or cannibalizing for parts. Most are running on parallel
ports. I've tried to talk them out of using these dinosaurs many
times, but when someone re-ordered an additional lifetime supply of
NCR forms, I realized it was hopeless. My current billing for Oki
printer repair is probably several times the cost of a cheap (Brother)
printer.

My strong preference is for a wide carriage, but I could probably
live with 80 columns given some compelling reasons, such as
performance or reliability, etc..

Reliability? In automobiles, machinery, kitchen appliances, and
printers, IF IT MOVES, IT BREAKS.

As a repair-person, all I see are the broken printers. I'm sure that
there might be someone using dot matrix printers that never break, but
it's not me. Shredded ribbons, broken printhead pins, mangled ribbon
guides, stripped plastic gears and clutches, wrinkled patens, fried
power supplies, and such are common. Dot matrix printers require
constant attention, cleaning, and lubrication. They live on a diet of
spare parts. If you're looking for performance and reliability, dot
matrix is not the answer.

Hint: Any machine that makes a pounding, grinding, screaming,
banging, or any similar loud noise, is probably pounding some
component to death. Such noises are characteristic of all dot matrix
printers.

I'm looking at: OKI62434101 - Oki Microline 691 24-Pin Wide Carriage
Dot Matrix Printer.

24 pin is about as thin a pin wire that can be made that is both
flexible and strong. Keeping the pin wires from work hardening and
subsequently breaking is difficult. The stock Oki heads are quite
good. The cheaper rebuilds usually substitute something else for the
wire, which quickly breaks. While 9 pin heads look awful and 24 pin
heads don't last, 18 pin print heads (Fujitsu) seem to be a good
compromise:
<http://www.microlys.it/eng/printheads/ph_home.asp>

If anyone has personal experience with this exact model (or even
the smaller 690) I'd really appreciate hearing your thoughts and
experience with it.

The aforementioned is why I do NOT have any experience with the 690
series printers. I would like to take this opportunity to thank the
printer gods for NOT inflicting this experience upon me.

I just want something that is reliable and prints with reasonably
good speed (for a dot matrix) and quality. The application is making
printouts for assembly language programs.

Printouts? Is that like with green bar paper and perforated feed
paper? How retro. Do you own a museum?

If you're serious about speed and reliability, you also consider cost
of ownership. Laser printers cost MUCH less than dot matrix to own an
operate. The initial cost is about the same, but the operating and
maintenance costs, quality, and speed are much less. You also find
parts for most printers. Some are so cheap that they are cheaper to
replace than to repair (i.e. refurbished Brother lasers). In the race
to flood the world with paper, the dot matrix isn't even in the
running. Think laser.

So, you want to make printouts. I guess you could setup your computer
to print green bars in the background, with a simulated dot matrix
font:
<https://www.1001fonts.com/dot-matrix-fonts.html>
<https://www.dafont.com/dot-matrix.font>
<https://www.fontspace.com/category/dot%20matrix>
I suppose one could edit the font to include a few imperfections to
more closely emulate a worn out dot matrix printer. However, I don't
know of any small laser printers that accept roll fed or sprocket fed
paper. If you need roll feed, you'll probably need to use an inkjet
printer.

I realize a laser or inkjet is the modern-day alternative, if one
were going to print it at all.

You might "realize" that this is a bad idea, but I suspect that it
will take some more convincing to turn you into a true laser printer
believer.

But I actually PREFER to archive, review and update code the
old-fashioned way - i.e., having the printout in a Presstex/ACCO
hanging binder.

Never mind my retro computing compliment. This is beginning to border
on masochism. I have a similar problem which might explain why I'm a
lousy programmist. I learned to program on an IBM 1620 with punched
cards. Somewhat later, the cards were replaced by paper rolls feeding
a Teletype Model 33ASR teleprinter. My style of debugging, probably
similar to yours, was to unroll the program in the hallway, mark my
changes on the roll with a red felt tip pen, enter the changes into
computer, punch a new copy on paper tape, and print a new program
listing. That worked nicely in the late 1960's.

Roll forward 50 years, and computing has made spectacular progress.
Unfortunately, during the same 50 years, I've made very little. I
still prefer to dump a trail of printouts on the hallway floor,
scribble corrections with a red felt tip pen, and do my editing using
a line editor (vi). We all tend to stop learning at some stage where
we feel comfortable. I stopped in the 1960's, while you seem to have
stopped about 15-20 years later. Neither of us seem interested in
embarrassing a later technology, probably because the old ways still
work fairly well.

>My last dot matrix (a Panasonic) finally died,

I recently tossed all my Panasonic printer service manuals. I was
tempted to celebrate with a large bon fire, but suspected that I might
have difficulties explaining my motivation to the local fire
department.

and while I have spent most of this past year trying to get accustomed
to different bindings, it just isn't happening. (Note: That's a
sure sign of getting old!)

I haven't tried very many different bindings due to the lack of a
willing partner. Are bindings a form of B&D (bondage and discipline)?

>OKI and Epson seem to be the only ones making these things anymore?

Fujitsu makes some nice dot matrix printers:
<https://www.fujitsu.com/global/products/computing/peripheral/printers/>
I've only seen them, but never used any. I do have some experience
with their desktop scanners and generally like what I see. They seem
to be the scanning standard with the local law offices.

Lexmark also makes a series of small dot matrix form printers:
<https://www.lexmark.com/en_xc/products/hardware/enterprise-and-large-business.html?type=dotmatrix>

Thanks in advance, as always.
-mpm

Good luck.

--
Jeff Liebermann jeffl@cruzio.com
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

 

[bitrex]

On 10/6/19 10:33 PM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:

On Sun, 6 Oct 2019 08:45:52 -0700 (PDT), mpm <mpmillard@aol.com
wrote:

Can someone recommend a (sub-$900) new, current production
model dot matrix printer? I plan to use it on Windows-7, USB.

No, I can't recommend dot matrix printer. Unless you have a lifetime
supply of multi-part NCR (no carbon required) forms, I don't see it as
a good idea.

I have to deal with a customer that has exactly that problem. My
guess is they have about 8 working Oki 320/321, 390/391, 420/421
series printers, and an equal number of printers I've been slowly
rebuilding or cannibalizing for parts. Most are running on parallel
ports. I've tried to talk them out of using these dinosaurs many
times, but when someone re-ordered an additional lifetime supply of
NCR forms, I realized it was hopeless. My current billing for Oki
printer repair is probably several times the cost of a cheap (Brother)
printer.

My strong preference is for a wide carriage, but I could probably
live with 80 columns given some compelling reasons, such as
performance or reliability, etc..

Reliability? In automobiles, machinery, kitchen appliances, and
printers, IF IT MOVES, IT BREAKS.

As a repair-person, all I see are the broken printers. I'm sure that
there might be someone using dot matrix printers that never break, but
it's not me. Shredded ribbons, broken printhead pins, mangled ribbon
guides, stripped plastic gears and clutches, wrinkled patens, fried
power supplies, and such are common. Dot matrix printers require
constant attention, cleaning, and lubrication. They live on a diet of
spare parts. If you're looking for performance and reliability, dot
matrix is not the answer.

Hint: Any machine that makes a pounding, grinding, screaming,
banging, or any similar loud noise, is probably pounding some
component to death. Such noises are characteristic of all dot matrix
printers.

So electric cars should be pretty reliable?

 

[bitrex]

On 10/6/19 11:36 PM, bitrex wrote:

On 10/6/19 11:23 PM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
On Sun, 6 Oct 2019 22:39:00 -0400, bitrex <user@example.net> wrote:

On 10/6/19 10:33 PM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
Hint:  Any machine that makes a pounding, grinding, screaming,
banging, or any similar loud noise, is probably pounding some
component to death.  Such noises are characteristic of all dot matrix
printers.

So electric cars should be pretty reliable?

No.  You skipped over my first law of mechanics.  Repeating:

   Reliability?  In automobiles, machinery, kitchen appliances, and
   printers, IF IT MOVES, IT BREAKS.

Your electric car moves.  Therefore, it can and will break.  It
probably won't be the motor or drive components that will fail.  It
will likely be the moving door hinges, sliding ash tray, electric
windows, trunk hinge, hood hinge, windshield wipers, or some other
obscure and insignificant moving part.  If you hear any of these begin
to make unusual noises, the end is near.

Ash trays and cigarette lighters almost never even come stock in new
cars anymore you usually have to add a "smoker's package" as an option,
if it's available. So that's good news.

The motors do break it "sounds like a skill-saw":

https://youtu.be/ecnQvl0lX94

Note: Fake engine noises are not considered an indication of a problem
and the additional of noise canceling technology to reduce interior
noise levels is not considered a proper solution:
https://www.inverse.com/article/37383-elon-musk-tesla-car-sounds

Pedestrians often don't hear my girlfriend's 2019 Elantra 4-banger
approaching either. The Volt just sounds kinda like an air conditioner
when it's going slow. It doesn't seem to work any better or worse.

The pedestrians in situations that might benefit the most seem to be the
most oblivious, only a full-throttle V8 roar might alert them as they
wander around the parking lot wondering where they put their car

The first generation had a "polite horn" or "country horn" (as I think
it's called in the UK) on the turn signal stick it just went "bloop beep
boop" and people would know you were there. The most effective solution
of all if you could actually see them. For whatever reason they removed
it for gen 2.

 

[bitrex]

On 10/6/19 11:23 PM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:

On Sun, 6 Oct 2019 22:39:00 -0400, bitrex <user@example.net> wrote:

On 10/6/19 10:33 PM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
Hint: Any machine that makes a pounding, grinding, screaming,
banging, or any similar loud noise, is probably pounding some
component to death. Such noises are characteristic of all dot matrix
printers.

So electric cars should be pretty reliable?

No. You skipped over my first law of mechanics. Repeating:

Reliability? In automobiles, machinery, kitchen appliances, and
printers, IF IT MOVES, IT BREAKS.

Your electric car moves. Therefore, it can and will break. It
probably won't be the motor or drive components that will fail. It
will likely be the moving door hinges, sliding ash tray, electric
windows, trunk hinge, hood hinge, windshield wipers, or some other
obscure and insignificant moving part. If you hear any of these begin
to make unusual noises, the end is near.

Ash trays and cigarette lighters almost never even come stock in new
cars anymore you usually have to add a "smoker's package" as an option,
if it's available. So that's good news.

The motors do break it "sounds like a skill-saw":

<https://youtu.be/ecnQvl0lX94>

Note: Fake engine noises are not considered an indication of a problem
and the additional of noise canceling technology to reduce interior
noise levels is not considered a proper solution:
https://www.inverse.com/article/37383-elon-musk-tesla-car-sounds

Pedestrians often don't hear my girlfriend's 2019 Elantra 4-banger
approaching either. The Volt just sounds kinda like an air conditioner
when it's going slow. It doesn't seem to work any better or worse.

The pedestrians in situations that might benefit the most seem to be the
most oblivious, only a full-throttle V8 roar might alert them as they
wander around the parking lot wondering where they put their car

 

[Jeff Liebermann]

On Sun, 6 Oct 2019 22:39:00 -0400, bitrex <user@example.net> wrote:

On 10/6/19 10:33 PM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
Hint: Any machine that makes a pounding, grinding, screaming,
banging, or any similar loud noise, is probably pounding some
component to death. Such noises are characteristic of all dot matrix
printers.

So electric cars should be pretty reliable?

No. You skipped over my first law of mechanics. Repeating:

Reliability? In automobiles, machinery, kitchen appliances, and
printers, IF IT MOVES, IT BREAKS.

Your electric car moves. Therefore, it can and will break. It
probably won't be the motor or drive components that will fail. It
will likely be the moving door hinges, sliding ash tray, electric
windows, trunk hinge, hood hinge, windshield wipers, or some other
obscure and insignificant moving part. If you hear any of these begin
to make unusual noises, the end is near.

Note: Fake engine noises are not considered an indication of a problem
and the additional of noise canceling technology to reduce interior
noise levels is not considered a proper solution:
<https://www.inverse.com/article/37383-elon-musk-tesla-car-sounds>



--
Jeff Liebermann jeffl@cruzio.com
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

 

[Jasen Betts]

On 2019-10-06, bitrex <user@example.net> wrote:

On 10/6/19 11:45 AM, mpm wrote:
Can someone recommend a (sub-$900) new, current production model dot matrix printer? I plan to use it on Windows-7, USB.

My strong preference is for a wide carriage, but I could probably live with 80 columns given some compelling reasons, such as performance or reliability, etc..
I'm looking at: OKI62434101 - Oki Microline 691 24-Pin Wide Carriage Dot Matrix Printer.

If anyone has personal experience with this exact model (or even the smaller 690) I'd really appreciate hearing your thoughts and experience with it.

I just want something that is reliable and prints with reasonably good speed (for a dot matrix) and quality. The application is making printouts for assembly language programs.

I realize a laser or inkjet is the modern-day alternative, if one were going to print it at all.

But I actually PREFER to archive, review and update code the old-fashioned way - i.e., having the printout in a Presstex/ACCO hanging binder.

My last dot matrix (a Panasonic) finally died, and while I have spent most of this past year trying to get accustomed to different bindings, it just isn't happening. (Note: That's a sure sign of getting old!)

OKI and Epson seem to be the only ones making these things anymore?

Thanks in advance, as always.
-mpm


i'd go with whatever you expect will have the best ribbon availability
down the road. I'll expect you'll still be able to buy Epson ribbons,
but "Okidata"??

Okidata has been making industrial quality printers since forever.

Around 1993 I got a used one (possibly the 691 mentioned above) with a
broken pin for $3 and was able to disassemble the head and swap the bad
pin to a less inconvenient location.

--
When I tried casting out nines I made a hash of it.

 

[Jeff Liebermann]

On Sun, 6 Oct 2019 23:36:49 -0400, bitrex <user@example.net> wrote:

Ash trays and cigarette lighters almost never even come stock in new
cars anymore you usually have to add a "smoker's package" as an option,
if it's available. So that's good news.

My car is 18 years old. It has an ash tray (to store some keys and
spare parts) and a cigarette igniter (for the USB phone charger).
Unfortunately, it's "new" enough to come with a very marginal spare
tire. Progress blunders onward.

The motors do break it "sounds like a skill-saw":
https://youtu.be/ecnQvl0lX94

My worm gear drive saws are much louder. Besides, that was a Chevy
Volt, not a Tesla. Anyway, it does demonstrate my principle. If it
moves, it breaks(tm).

Pedestrians often don't hear my girlfriend's 2019 Elantra 4-banger
approaching either. The Volt just sounds kinda like an air conditioner
when it's going slow. It doesn't seem to work any better or worse.

Car makers are working on the problem:
"Fake engine noise for Tesla EVs is Harman's sound synthesis
tech hard at work"
<https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xX5Phiu623s>
I have no idea what the final result might be. Flying saucer noises
will probably be standard. I would prefer something attention
getting, such as the sound of a car coming to a screeching stop. Maybe
also spray some essence of burning rubber to enhance the effect.

The pedestrians in situations that might benefit the most seem to be the
most oblivious, only a full-throttle V8 roar might alert them as they
wander around the parking lot wondering where they put their car

Maybe, but I suspect their smartphone recovery time might be too long
for the pedestrian to perform any useful evasive maneuvers. If this
is true, then it's the responsibility of the Tesla driver to respond
quickly. Perhaps radar activated air bags along the front bumper will
help. Requiring a beacon transmitter in all smartphones to provide an
early warning to motorists, might also be useful.

--
Jeff Liebermann jeffl@cruzio.com
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

 

[bitrex]

On 10/7/19 12:19 PM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:

On Sun, 6 Oct 2019 23:36:49 -0400, bitrex <user@example.net> wrote:

Ash trays and cigarette lighters almost never even come stock in new
cars anymore you usually have to add a "smoker's package" as an option,
if it's available. So that's good news.

My car is 18 years old. It has an ash tray (to store some keys and
spare parts) and a cigarette igniter (for the USB phone charger).
Unfortunately, it's "new" enough to come with a very marginal spare
tire. Progress blunders onward.

The motors do break it "sounds like a skill-saw":
https://youtu.be/ecnQvl0lX94

My worm gear drive saws are much louder. Besides, that was a Chevy
Volt, not a Tesla. Anyway, it does demonstrate my principle. If it
moves, it breaks(tm).

Pedestrians often don't hear my girlfriend's 2019 Elantra 4-banger
approaching either. The Volt just sounds kinda like an air conditioner
when it's going slow. It doesn't seem to work any better or worse.

Car makers are working on the problem:
"Fake engine noise for Tesla EVs is Harman's sound synthesis
tech hard at work"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xX5Phiu623s
I have no idea what the final result might be. Flying saucer noises
will probably be standard. I would prefer something attention
getting, such as the sound of a car coming to a screeching stop. Maybe
also spray some essence of burning rubber to enhance the effect.

The pedestrians in situations that might benefit the most seem to be the
most oblivious, only a full-throttle V8 roar might alert them as they
wander around the parking lot wondering where they put their car

Maybe, but I suspect their smartphone recovery time might be too long
for the pedestrian to perform any useful evasive maneuvers. If this
is true, then it's the responsibility of the Tesla driver to respond
quickly. Perhaps radar activated air bags along the front bumper will
help. Requiring a beacon transmitter in all smartphones to provide an
early warning to motorists, might also be useful.

Yep. It's the job of a pedestrian detection system to alert the
_driver_, they're in the best position to react, not sound some alert
tone to the pedestrian in the (possibly futile) hope they'll recognize
it and know what to do

 

[mpm]

On Sunday, October 6, 2019 at 10:33:34 PM UTC-4, Jeff Liebermann wrote:

Hint: Any machine that makes a pounding, grinding, screaming,
banging, or any similar loud noise, is probably pounding some
component to death. Such noises are characteristic of all dot matrix
printers.

Jeff - you are a genius!!
What we need to make is an MP3 player that will emulate that dot-matrix sound anytime someone prints to the office laserjet.

Note: We have a few interns who I can practically guarantee would not recognize the sound.

 

[mpm]

On Sunday, October 6, 2019 at 7:46:06 PM UTC-4, bitrex wrote:

i'd go with whatever you expect will have the best ribbon availability
down the road. I'll expect you'll still be able to buy Epson ribbons,
but "Okidata"??

Good advice.
Although with Amazon, you can pretty much get everything these days.

That said, I found a less expensive Epson wide-carriage (FX-2190II) 9-pin.
Since it's probably going to be a single-purpose printer, I really don't need all that near-letter quality stuff, speed, etc...

Someone else mentioned that Dot Matrix has gone the way of the dinosaur (or at least the wired MP3 player), but that's not entirely true. There is still a strong niche market for dot-matrix in settings that require multiple copies of the same form (i.e., NCR paper), particularly in cases where the customer has to sign the document. (Auto repair, warehouse pickup slips, etc...)

Though it is likewise true that some other stores will opt for an entirely wireless experience, where the customer signs a iPad (or whatever).

I'll give you one guess what I think about that? (Old fart that I am...)

If I get the printer, I'll promise to upload an "unboxing" video, complete with 24-bit Dolby sound of the print-head. (Translation: Don't hold your breath.)

 

[mpm]

On Sunday, October 6, 2019 at 10:33:34 PM UTC-4, Jeff Liebermann wrote:

No, I can't recommend dot matrix printer. ...

Guilty as charged on all accounts.

It really boils down to this: I just like to review code in that format, with pages printed on both sides. Yes, I could absolutely do this with a Word macro (or ?), and a double-sided printer. And that last thought makes we think about pulling all my teeth out with dull pliers! I've never found one I like.

In fact, printers in general remind me of that scene from Office Space.
There's a color laser printer in the office I'd like to see meet a similar fate.

Anyway - fast forward....
I haven't pulled the trigger yet, but I have an Epson FX-2190II wide carriage dot matrix in my Amazon cart for $504. Probably not as nice as the Okidata, but the reality you mention is worth considering: This is probably the only application I'll use it for, and..., it's really NOT a necessity.

I'm going to sleep on it. It's only money.

And you're right... you must be about 10-12 years older than me.
Child of the early '60's here. I "missed out" on punch cards, paper tape, vacuum tubes, and even magnetic tape (mostly). By the time I got really interested in electronics, the Z80 and 8085's were just getting into full swing. Along with CB radio.

 

[mpm]

On Sunday, October 6, 2019 at 11:23:54 PM UTC-4, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
> Your electric car moves. Therefore, it can and will break.

One of the owners at work drives a Tesla.
She's had something like 4 flat tires this year.

This last time, I asked her if she recently shopped at Home Depot.
"Sure", not making the connection.

I then mentioned that the Home Depot parking lot is a perfect place to find nails that have dropped of worker's trucks.

You could almost see the light bulb going off.

BTW: Same person, same Tesla... "Permanent Sleep Mode".
(Yet another reason an old-ish fart / luddite like me doesn't really want an electric vehicle.)

 

[Jeff Liebermann]

On Mon, 7 Oct 2019 17:08:12 -0700 (PDT), mpm <mpmillard@aol.com>
wrote:

On Sunday, October 6, 2019 at 10:33:34 PM UTC-4, Jeff Liebermann wrote:

Hint: Any machine that makes a pounding, grinding, screaming,
banging, or any similar loud noise, is probably pounding some
component to death. Such noises are characteristic of all dot matrix
printers.

Jeff - you are a genius!!

Yep. I'm also smart enough not to mention it in public.

What we need to make is an MP3 player that will emulate that
dot-matrix sound anytime someone prints to the office laserjet.

No problem and who is this "we"?
<https://freesound.org/people/viertelnachvier/sounds/181420/>
<https://whitenoisemarket.com/sound/dot-matrix-printer>
<https://www.audioblocks.com/stock-audio/dot-matrix-printer-slmb9s6h8dhk0wxxrmu.html>
<https://www.skyesaudio.com/vintage-dot-matrix-printer-sound-effects-library>
<https://www.freesfx.co.uk/sfx/dot-matrix>
<https://www.pond5.com/sound-effects/1/dot-matrix-printer.html#1>
etc... Playing a medley loop of dot matrix noises all night should be
sufficient to satisfy your noise addiction and is far cheaper than
buying and feeding a real dot matrix printer.

Drivel: Ever notice that until only a few years ago, both TV and
radio news was accompanied by the sound of a teletype machine
clattering in the background? Up to about 1985, it was considered
essential for news broadcasts, even though none of the stations
involved had owned or used a teletype machine for 10 years or more. Of
course, the teletype machine was a recording.

More drivel: The TV and movie incantation of a computer room is full
of impressive looking racks, comfortable chairs, elaborate consoles,
spinning tape reels, and almost total silence.
<https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NeESf9aCZHQ>
The reality is that such computer rooms are some of the noisiest
places to work on the planet. The air conditioning system alone is
sufficiently loud to deafen an OSHA inspector. I spent some time
running cables through the raised floor while everything was operating
and had to use sign language to communicate with my helpers. When
there was a noisy dot matrix printer or teletype machine present, I
could barely hear it. (Chain printers are the worst). Here's 10 hrs
of data center noise:
<https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rVLpDz43lnQ>

>Note: We have a few interns who I can practically guarantee would not recognize the sound.

You have 50+ year old interns? What manner of sweat shop are you
operating?

Incidentally, the way to keep a dot matrix printer alive is to add oil
to the felt pad that lubricates the pins in the print head. Also,
clean and oil the polished round bar or dull sheet metal stamping on
which the head moves horizontally. The thin metal "shield" between
the head and the paper also tends to wear and should be replaced
before the paper sharpens and polishes the edges to a razor edge. This
will eventually cut the paper, which will then crumple. When the
print head pins hit this crumpled mess, the pins will break when the
head moves in any direction. In other words, fix it BEFORE it breaks.



--
Jeff Liebermann jeffl@cruzio.com
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

 

[Robert Baer]

mpm wrote:

Can someone recommend a (sub-$900) new, current production model dot matrix printer? I plan to use it on Windows-7, USB.

My strong preference is for a wide carriage, but I could probably live with 80 columns given some compelling reasons, such as performance or reliability, etc..
I'm looking at: OKI62434101 - Oki Microline 691 24-Pin Wide Carriage Dot Matrix Printer.

If anyone has personal experience with this exact model (or even the smaller 690) I'd really appreciate hearing your thoughts and experience with it.

I just want something that is reliable and prints with reasonably good speed (for a dot matrix) and quality. The application is making printouts for assembly language programs.

I realize a laser or inkjet is the modern-day alternative, if one were going to print it at all.

But I actually PREFER to archive, review and update code the old-fashioned way - i.e., having the printout in a Presstex/ACCO hanging binder.

My last dot matrix (a Panasonic) finally died, and while I have spent most of this past year trying to get accustomed to different bindings, it just isn't happening. (Note: That's a sure sign of getting old!)

OKI and Epson seem to be the only ones making these things anymore?

Thanks in advance, as always.
-mpm

Oki, HP, Lexmark, Canon, Samsung.
Newegg.
Their search does not recognize "wide carriage".

 

[Robert Baer]

Jeff Liebermann wrote:

On Sun, 6 Oct 2019 08:45:52 -0700 (PDT), mpm <mpmillard@aol.com
wrote:

Can someone recommend a (sub-$900) new, current production
model dot matrix printer? I plan to use it on Windows-7, USB.

No, I can't recommend dot matrix printer. Unless you have a lifetime
supply of multi-part NCR (no carbon required) forms, I don't see it as
a good idea.

I have to deal with a customer that has exactly that problem. My
guess is they have about 8 working Oki 320/321, 390/391, 420/421
series printers, and an equal number of printers I've been slowly
rebuilding or cannibalizing for parts. Most are running on parallel
ports. I've tried to talk them out of using these dinosaurs many
times, but when someone re-ordered an additional lifetime supply of
NCR forms, I realized it was hopeless. My current billing for Oki
printer repair is probably several times the cost of a cheap (Brother)
printer.
* CHEAP is he watchword, "fur" shure.

My strong preference is for a wide carriage, but I could probably
live with 80 columns given some compelling reasons, such as
performance or reliability, etc..

Reliability? In automobiles, machinery, kitchen appliances, and
printers, IF IT MOVES, IT BREAKS.

As a repair-person, all I see are the broken printers. I'm sure that
there might be someone using dot matrix printers that never break, but
it's not me. Shredded ribbons, broken printhead pins, mangled ribbon
guides, stripped plastic gears and clutches, wrinkled patens, fried
power supplies, and such are common. Dot matrix printers require
constant attention, cleaning, and lubrication. They live on a diet of
spare parts. If you're looking for performance and reliability, dot
matrix is not the answer.

* Housesomeever,i have had a Panasonic for over 10 years - needing only
ribbons and (for some wierd reason) paper.

Hint: Any machine that makes a pounding, grinding, screaming,
banging, or any similar loud noise, is probably pounding some
component to death. Such noises are characteristic of all dot matrix
printers.

I'm looking at: OKI62434101 - Oki Microline 691 24-Pin Wide Carriage
Dot Matrix Printer.

24 pin is about as thin a pin wire that can be made that is both
flexible and strong. Keeping the pin wires from work hardening and
subsequently breaking is difficult. The stock Oki heads are quite
good. The cheaper rebuilds usually substitute something else for the
wire, which quickly breaks. While 9 pin heads look awful and 24 pin
heads don't last, 18 pin print heads (Fujitsu) seem to be a good
compromise:
http://www.microlys.it/eng/printheads/ph_home.asp

If anyone has personal experience with this exact model (or even
the smaller 690) I'd really appreciate hearing your thoughts and
experience with it.

The aforementioned is why I do NOT have any experience with the 690
series printers. I would like to take this opportunity to thank the
printer gods for NOT inflicting this experience upon me.

I just want something that is reliable and prints with reasonably
good speed (for a dot matrix) and quality. The application is making
printouts for assembly language programs.

Printouts? Is that like with green bar paper and perforated feed
paper? How retro. Do you own a museum?

If you're serious about speed and reliability, you also consider cost
of ownership. Laser printers cost MUCH less than dot matrix to own an
operate. The initial cost is about the same, but the operating and
maintenance costs, quality, and speed are much less. You also find
parts for most printers. Some are so cheap that they are cheaper to
replace than to repair (i.e. refurbished Brother lasers). In the race
to flood the world with paper, the dot matrix isn't even in the
running. Think laser.

So, you want to make printouts. I guess you could setup your computer
to print green bars in the background, with a simulated dot matrix
font:
https://www.1001fonts.com/dot-matrix-fonts.html
https://www.dafont.com/dot-matrix.font
https://www.fontspace.com/category/dot%20matrix
I suppose one could edit the font to include a few imperfections to
more closely emulate a worn out dot matrix printer. However, I don't
know of any small laser printers that accept roll fed or sprocket fed
paper. If you need roll feed, you'll probably need to use an inkjet
printer.

I realize a laser or inkjet is the modern-day alternative, if one
were going to print it at all.

You might "realize" that this is a bad idea, but I suspect that it
will take some more convincing to turn you into a true laser printer
believer.

But I actually PREFER to archive, review and update code the
old-fashioned way - i.e., having the printout in a Presstex/ACCO
hanging binder.

Never mind my retro computing compliment. This is beginning to border
on masochism. I have a similar problem which might explain why I'm a
lousy programmist. I learned to program on an IBM 1620 with punched
cards. Somewhat later, the cards were replaced by paper rolls feeding
a Teletype Model 33ASR teleprinter. My style of debugging, probably
similar to yours, was to unroll the program in the hallway, mark my
changes on the roll with a red felt tip pen, enter the changes into
computer, punch a new copy on paper tape, and print a new program
listing. That worked nicely in the late 1960's.

Roll forward 50 years, and computing has made spectacular progress.
Unfortunately, during the same 50 years, I've made very little. I
still prefer to dump a trail of printouts on the hallway floor,
scribble corrections with a red felt tip pen, and do my editing using
a line editor (vi). We all tend to stop learning at some stage where
we feel comfortable. I stopped in the 1960's, while you seem to have
stopped about 15-20 years later. Neither of us seem interested in
embarrassing a later technology, probably because the old ways still
work fairly well.

My last dot matrix (a Panasonic) finally died,

I recently tossed all my Panasonic printer service manuals. I was
tempted to celebrate with a large bon fire, but suspected that I might
have difficulties explaining my motivation to the local fire
department.

and while I have spent most of this past year trying to get accustomed
to different bindings, it just isn't happening. (Note: That's a
sure sign of getting old!)

I haven't tried very many different bindings due to the lack of a
willing partner. Are bindings a form of B&D (bondage and discipline)?

OKI and Epson seem to be the only ones making these things anymore?

Fujitsu makes some nice dot matrix printers:
https://www.fujitsu.com/global/products/computing/peripheral/printers/
I've only seen them, but never used any. I do have some experience
with their desktop scanners and generally like what I see. They seem
to be the scanning standard with the local law offices.

Lexmark also makes a series of small dot matrix form printers:
https://www.lexmark.com/en_xc/products/hardware/enterprise-and-large-business.html?type=dotmatrix

Thanks in advance, as always.
-mpm

Good luck.

 

[bitrex]

On 10/7/19 8:14 PM, mpm wrote:

On Sunday, October 6, 2019 at 11:23:54 PM UTC-4, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
Your electric car moves. Therefore, it can and will break.

One of the owners at work drives a Tesla.
She's had something like 4 flat tires this year.

This last time, I asked her if she recently shopped at Home Depot.
"Sure", not making the connection.

I then mentioned that the Home Depot parking lot is a perfect place to find nails that have dropped of worker's trucks.

You could almost see the light bulb going off.

BTW: Same person, same Tesla... "Permanent Sleep Mode".
(Yet another reason an old-ish fart / luddite like me doesn't really want an electric vehicle.)

If you lease an electric vehicle with gas prices currently below $3/gal
getting too many flat tires can trash any fuel savings you might have
accrued (as compared to the user-costs of leasing an ICE car of
comparable value and performance)

Low rolling resistance tires tend to be more vulnerable to damage from
debris, and good-quality low rolling resistance tires aren't cheap,
pushing 200 bucks per, and sometimes it makes sense to replace two when
you replace one. Many new cars don't come with a spare, not even a
donut. Even the top of the line Model S, doesn't.

If you want to "save money" by leasing one (as compared to the
user-costs of leasing an ICE car of comparable value and performance)
driving one you have to be a little smart on how you manage its operation.

 

[bitrex]

On 10/8/19 2:36 PM, bitrex wrote:

On 10/7/19 8:14 PM, mpm wrote:
On Sunday, October 6, 2019 at 11:23:54 PM UTC-4, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
Your electric car moves.  Therefore, it can and will break.

One of the owners at work drives a Tesla.
She's had something like 4 flat tires this year.

This last time, I asked her if she recently shopped at Home Depot.
"Sure", not making the connection.

I then mentioned that the Home Depot parking lot is a perfect place to
find nails that have dropped of worker's trucks.

You could almost see the light bulb going off.

BTW:  Same person, same Tesla...  "Permanent Sleep Mode".
(Yet another reason an old-ish fart / luddite like me doesn't really
want an electric vehicle.)



If you lease an electric vehicle with gas prices currently below $3/gal
getting too many flat tires can trash any fuel savings you might have
accrued (as compared to the user-costs of leasing an ICE car of
comparable value and performance)

Low rolling resistance tires tend to be more vulnerable to damage from
debris, and good-quality low rolling resistance tires aren't cheap,
pushing 200 bucks per, and sometimes it makes sense to replace two when
you replace one. Many new cars don't come with a spare, not even a
donut. Even the top of the line Model S, doesn't.

If you want to "save money" by leasing one (as compared to the
user-costs of leasing an ICE car of comparable value and performance)
driving one you have to be a little smart on how you manage its operation.

But honestly, nobody buys or leases the ones that are at $80,000 or
$100,000 price points to "save money."

 

On Monday, 7 October 2019 00:46:06 UTC+1, bitrex wrote:

On 10/6/19 11:45 AM, mpm wrote:

Can someone recommend a (sub-$900) new, current production model dot matrix printer? I plan to use it on Windows-7, USB.

snip

i'd go with whatever you expect will have the best ribbon availability
down the road. I'll expect you'll still be able to buy Epson ribbons,
but "Okidata"??

DMs have no end of downsides as Jeff explained, and some he didn't, but that above's the one point that's not really an issue. There aren't many sizes in use, and it doesn't matter at all what make or model a ribbon was sold to fit, it just has to be the right width. That of course assumes you're happy to transplant it into the old ribbon casing. If you're happy to live with a DM, you should have no objection to regular reinking of ribbons, installing a homebrewed ink reservoir, mixing ink and replacing ribbbons when they become a hazard to the pins. /Don't/ neglect the latter or your print head will be deaded.

Don't forget to put it in a different room to the one you're in. They really are noisy. And slow. And in consumer grade machines they stop frequently as the heads overheat. And sit them on rubber pads on a wobbly table to minimise noise transmission.

Colour DMs did exist - but you get few colours as well as junk resolution as each pixel can't be modulated. When I looked for a replacement ribbon decades ago the cost was a bit outrageous, and they're much harder to reink.

I suspect ribbons could be made from haberdashery supplies, but I've never considered doing it. I have however used white printing ribbons from little reels of correction film.

Another downside is that the 'violet' ink often used slowly fades to nothing. Put it in direct summer sun & it can be vanished in a day. Varying fading print density is ever an issue of course.

The only upsides I can think of is that the ink was extremely cheap & the printers free.

Daisy wheels were better if you only wanted to print plain text. Golfballs used to hammer the crap out of anything they sat on.


NT