DIY Total Closure for a car

[Simon Burrows]

Hi all,

First of all, apologies for the cross-post! It's gone to some car ngs aswell
as electronics ones for both sides of the story

I'm just having a little play around with the idea of adding a circuit to my
car's stock alarm that will create a total closure system (i.e if
windows/sunroof are open they will be closed automatically).

In theory, I guess this should be pretty simple... all the windows/sunroof
etc are electric so I just need a circuit that switches to either positive
or negative (depending on which the window switch needs) when the doors
lock.

Unfortunately my electronics has got a bit rusty over the last few years
(since I stopped studying it when I was 15!) so I was wondering if anyone
could help me out with the sort of thing I should be looking for?

From memory, this is the sort of thing a 555 timer could control, isn't it?
I've found a prebuilt PCB based around the 555 timer (the K2579 Universal
Timer) which has a variable resistor to control the length of the delay.
Would this be suitable for my application?

Thanks for any help,
Simon Burrows

 

[Scott M]

Simon Burrows wrote:

From memory, this is the sort of thing a 555 timer could control, isn't it?
I've found a prebuilt PCB based around the 555 timer (the K2579 Universal
Timer) which has a variable resistor to control the length of the delay.
Would this be suitable for my application?

Only as long as the windows/sunroof have end-of-travel sensors to cut
motor power. A lot of makers don't bother simply letting the motor stall
which, if you're doing this for 15s each time you lock the car, they'll
soon burn out.

As to choice of unit - a simple transistor/resistor/capacitor/relay
circuit would do. Last time I used a 555 in the car it literally[1] blew
itself into pieces the first time the engine was fired up. It was a
super low power version though - I've had success before with the
"normal" sorts.

--
Scott

Where are we going and why am I in this handbasket?

[1] And I used the word in its precise sense

 

[Simon Burrows]

"Scott M" <smorris_12@delete_this.yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:3F379D0E.9B9E36FD@delete_this.yahoo.com...

Simon Burrows wrote:

From memory, this is the sort of thing a 555 timer could control, isn't
it?
I've found a prebuilt PCB based around the 555 timer (the K2579
Universal
Timer) which has a variable resistor to control the length of the delay.
Would this be suitable for my application?

Only as long as the windows/sunroof have end-of-travel sensors to cut
motor power. A lot of makers don't bother simply letting the motor stall
which, if you're doing this for 15s each time you lock the car, they'll
soon burn out.

As to choice of unit - a simple transistor/resistor/capacitor/relay
circuit would do. Last time I used a 555 in the car it literally[1] blew
itself into pieces the first time the engine was fired up. It was a
super low power version though - I've had success before with the
"normal" sorts.

--
Scott

Cheers, so theoretically it should work. I'm fairly sure my windows have end
of travel sensors... but I'll check that they do. The driver's window has a
one-touch up and down switch, so that must have end of travel sensors to
avoid burning the motor out. The passenger one I'm not so sure about. Same
with the sunroof, that has a one-touch closure button, so I'd assume that
has sensors too.

Thanks a lot for the tips

 

[Grog]

Cheers, so theoretically it should work. I'm fairly sure my windows have
end
of travel sensors... but I'll check that they do. The driver's window has
a
one-touch up and down switch, so that must have end of travel sensors to
avoid burning the motor out. The passenger one I'm not so sure about. Same
with the sunroof, that has a one-touch closure button, so I'd assume that
has sensors too.

Thanks a lot for the tips

There are commercial units available to do this, sold as add-ons / optional
extras.
But if you really want to do it yourself, here's a couple of pointers...

You won't usually find limit switches, typically the controller senses the
increase of the motor current when it stalls. This is normally at the end of
each travel direction but also includes when something gets in the way.
Children and dogs to name a few.

The 'one touch' buttons are best described as resetable circuit breakers.
At the end of travel the current goes up and cuts off the switch.

One of the smarter controllers I have used was sensing the motor brush
noise instead of the current. Noisy while the motor turns, quiet when it
stops. Very tricky I thought at the time, a long time ago..

This one was also sequenced and could drive up to four devices. By
sequenced, I mean that it only did one at a time. When one finished closing
the next one would start, etc... etc...
Doing it that way makes for a happier battery...

Small Japanese (car's) windows were often lower power and easy to close
but a Mercedes or big old Chevy were much more power hungry. The
current sensing controllers often struggled with these.
The sequenced controller was also useful for closing a convertible(roof) in
that the roof must be closed fully before the windows go up.

Even did a rain sensor for one installation too, closing a sunroof and
windows if the driver forgot about it.. Save him from a soggy seat.

Food for thought I hope... ;-)

Greg the Grog

 

[Richard Kilpatrick]

Previously, <MiPZa.28622$bo1.12366@news-server.bigpond.net.au>, Grog
<shem_an_na@SPAM_ME_NOThotmail.com> dipped their finger in oil and
wrote:

You won't usually find limit switches, typically the controller senses the
increase of the motor current when it stalls. This is normally at the end of
each travel direction but also includes when something gets in the way.
Children and dogs to name a few.

And idiotic 'mates' - the bloke who was supposed to buy my Golf GTI when
I first got it ended up buying an X reg Golf GTI 1.8T instead (his
girlfriend made him finance a newer car, instead of running a 'banger').
So far he's ended up with a few hiccups, but the best must be the mate
seeing if the windows did that 'stopping thing' when something gets in
the way.

They sortof do. The window mechanism broke.
Then the door trim broke when he tried to fix it.

Citroens have stall type shutoffs, as do Volvos - later 480s have total
closure, in fact.

Richard
--
306 Cabrio - reliable, topless, fast - yet boring... |\ _,,,---,,_
Citroen XM Exclusive - still awaiting repairs. /,`.-'`' -. ;-;;,
VW Golf GTI 5dr - lovely, relaxing. 'Car' defined. |,4- ) )-,_. ,\ ( `'::.
'----''(_/--' `-'\_)Morticia

 

[marko]

Go buy a mk2 (with curvy bumpers/bonnet bulge/grille) Rover 800 and
take the window motors (with position sensors); centre locking motors;
'CCU' unit; keyfob and IR receiver; the whole wiring loom then graft
that onto chosen car.

One shot up/down on all windows/roof; current sensing on all windows
and sunroof; sequenced total closure/lazy locking; 1 minute delay
after ignition off to let people close the windows; you name it it
does it. If it still works anyhow; the rbush sensors on the motors die
and the switchpacks die - replace these and you're fine for 10 years
until they die again.

 

[Simon Burrows]

"marko" <markocosic@yahoo.co.uk> wrote in message
news:950fc49.0308120137.3c5c4183@posting.google.com...

Go buy a mk2 (with curvy bumpers/bonnet bulge/grille) Rover 800 and
take the window motors (with position sensors); centre locking motors;
'CCU' unit; keyfob and IR receiver; the whole wiring loom then graft
that onto chosen car.

One shot up/down on all windows/roof; current sensing on all windows
and sunroof; sequenced total closure/lazy locking; 1 minute delay
after ignition off to let people close the windows; you name it it
does it. If it still works anyhow; the rbush sensors on the motors die
and the switchpacks die - replace these and you're fine for 10 years
until they die again.

Very nice idea, but I don't really wanna rip too much of the car apart as
it's not that old and still worth a fair bit on resale (V reg, new shape
Celica).

Anyone had any experience with Microscan alarms? They do a total closure
add-on module which I bet could be adapted to do the job...?

 

[Richard Kilpatrick]

Previously, <no3_a.4286$5K2.976@news-binary.blueyonder.co.uk>, Simon
Burrows <simon@NOSPAMwinscombe.screaming.net> dipped their finger in oil
and wrote:

Very nice idea, but I don't really wanna rip too much of the car apart as
it's not that old and still worth a fair bit on resale (V reg, new shape
Celica).

Yargh, why are you wanting to bodge a V-reg Celica!

Don't Clifford do good modular alarm systems, or am I still living in
1996?

Richard
--
306 Cabrio - reliable, topless, fast - yet boring... |\ _,,,---,,_
Citroen XM Exclusive - still awaiting repairs. /,`.-'`' -. ;-;;,
VW Golf GTI 5dr - lovely, relaxing. 'Car' defined. |,4- ) )-,_. ,\ ( `'::.
'----''(_/--' `-'\_)Morticia

 

[Jamesy]

snip

Yargh, why are you wanting to bodge a V-reg Celica!

Don't Clifford do good modular alarm systems, or am I still living in
1996?

They do modular systems - "good" is another matter. Apparently they have
improved recently but the past few years have seen /lots/ os dissatisfied
Clifford customers.

Richard
--
306 Cabrio - reliable, topless, fast - yet boring... |\ _,,,---,,_
Citroen XM Exclusive - still awaiting repairs. /,`.-'`' -. ;-;;,
VW Golf GTI 5dr - lovely, relaxing. 'Car' defined. |,4- ) )-,_. ,\ (
`'::.
'----''(_/--'
`-'\_)Morticia

 

[Nom]

"Richard Kilpatrick" <richard@dmc12.demon.co.uk> wrote in message
news:4z8Gu$PtWMO$EwxV@dmc12.demon.co.uk...

Previously, <no3_a.4286$5K2.976@news-binary.blueyonder.co.uk>, Simon
Burrows <simon@NOSPAMwinscombe.screaming.net> dipped their finger in oil
and wrote:
Very nice idea, but I don't really wanna rip too much of the car apart as
it's not that old and still worth a fair bit on resale (V reg, new shape
Celica).

Yargh, why are you wanting to bodge a V-reg Celica!

Agreed !

Phone your local Car Audio place, and buy a top-spec alarm system. Will cost
well under a grand, including fitting, and will do everything you want.

 

[Simon Burrows]

"Richard Kilpatrick" <richard@dmc12.demon.co.uk> wrote in message
news:4z8Gu$PtWMO$EwxV@dmc12.demon.co.uk...

Previously, <no3_a.4286$5K2.976@news-binary.blueyonder.co.uk>, Simon
Burrows <simon@NOSPAMwinscombe.screaming.net> dipped their finger in oil
and wrote:
Very nice idea, but I don't really wanna rip too much of the car apart as
it's not that old and still worth a fair bit on resale (V reg, new shape
Celica).

Yargh, why are you wanting to bodge a V-reg Celica!

Don't Clifford do good modular alarm systems, or am I still living in
1996?

Richard
--
306 Cabrio - reliable, topless, fast - yet boring... |\ _,,,---,,_
Citroen XM Exclusive - still awaiting repairs. /,`.-'`' -. ;-;;,
VW Golf GTI 5dr - lovely, relaxing. 'Car' defined. |,4- ) )-,_. ,\ (
`'::.
'----''(_/--'
`-'\_)Morticia

I am going to put a new alarm on the car in the long term.. this was just a
short term fix for an annoying problem. Shouldn't really require much
bodging, literally just adding a circuit into the mix.

If it starts to look too hard and it's possible that I might mess something
up, obviously I'll just wait until I can spare the cash for the full new
alarm system (quite fancy one of the Cliffords with remote engine start
etc)...