DiSEqC™ 1.2...

[Michael Terrell]

Has anyone worked with DiSEqC™ 1.2 or other versions that communicate with a positioner for a kU band dish?
Commercial units are typically $400 and up. I\'ve found a few old references to a DIY controller using a PIC, but no code or much else. A Horizon to Horizon mount isn\'t difficult to build, and a gear drive with a stepper would be fairly simple as well. I want to try FTA satellite TV, without spending $1000.

 

[Johann Klammer]

On 09/27/2020 03:22 AM, Michael Terrell wrote:

Has anyone worked with DiSEqC™ 1.2 or other versions that communicate with a positioner for a kU band dish?
Commercial units are typically $400 and up. I\'ve found a few old references to a DIY controller using a PIC, but no code or much else. A Horizon to Horizon mount isn\'t difficult to build, and a gear drive with a stepper would be fairly simple as well. I want to try FTA satellite TV, without spending $1000.

you can turn the dish with your hand.

 

[Michael Terrell]

On Sunday, September 27, 2020 at 9:55:04 AM UTC-4, Johann Klammer wrote:

On 09/27/2020 03:22 AM, Michael Terrell wrote:
Has anyone worked with DiSEqC™ 1.2 or other versions that communicate with a positioner for a kU band dish?
Commercial units are typically $400 and up. I\'ve found a few old references to a DIY controller using a PIC, but no code or much else. A Horizon to Horizon mount isn\'t difficult to build, and a gear drive with a stepper would be fairly simple as well. I want to try FTA satellite TV, without spending $1000.

you can turn the dish with your hand.

Not when it has to be over 15 feet in the air, to clear a tree. I\'m disabled and I have trouble walking. I\'m not about to drag out a ladder and climb it every time I want to change channels. The receiver can store the positions, along with the channels so you just use the remote to select the channel.

 

[Clifford Heath]

On 27/9/20 11:22 am, Michael Terrell wrote:
> Has anyone worked with DiSEqC™

No idea about DiSEqC, but...

> I\'ve found a few old references to a DIY controller using a PIC, but no code or much else. A Horizon to Horizon mount isn\'t difficult to build, and a gear drive with a stepper would be fairly simple as well. I want to try FTA satellite TV, without spending $1000.

I\'ve been thinking about building a home-brew alt-az rotator for my 1.5m
galvanised steel dish. The trouble is to make the mechanism strong and
stable enough to withstand wind gusts.

My thoughts have run along the idea of using two lazy-susan bearings
mounted on a round pole, say 50-100cm apart in height, with timber
verticals joining them. A windscreen-wiper motor below the bottom one
can deal with azimuth, using a bicycle chain drive for example.

Then the dish itself is mounted near the top on a see-saw pivot with a
counter-weight, and using a linear actuator that forms a triangle from a
bottom pivot attached near the bottom lazy susan. That would deal with
altitude.

It shouldn\'t require much or any metal fabrication to make this
reasonably strong and durable. It might be interesting keeping the
encoders dry though.

Let me know if you do build something, Michael.

Clifford Heath

 

[Jeff Liebermann]

On Sat, 26 Sep 2020 18:22:49 -0700 (PDT), Michael Terrell
<terrell.michael.a@gmail.com> wrote:

Has anyone worked with DiSEqC™ 1.2 or other versions that
communicate with a positioner for a kU band dish?

Nope. All the DBS stuff I installed or repaired used a fixed Ku or Ka
band dish, and multiple LNB\'s to switch between satellites. The only
motors I\'ve had to deal with were in ancient C-band dishes and fine
alignment large (12 meter) dishes that had to deal with separating
multiple satellites in a single orbital slot. If there was any DiSeq
technology involved, it was well hidden inside the controllers and
actuators.

Commercial units are typically $400 and up. I\'ve found a few old
references to a DIY controller using a PIC, but no code or much
else.

A Horizon to Horizon mount isn\'t difficult to build,

You mean an equatorial mount? They might be easy to build, but they
are a nightmare to align properly. The satellites are spaced 2
degrees apart with an accuracy of 0.1 degrees. To insure that you
don\'t get interference from the satellites in an adjacent slot, you\'ll
need about +/-0.6 degree horizontal positioning accuracy. That\'s not
easy to do with either an \"arm-strong\" rotator, or an
electromechanical equivalent. The typical home C-band dish is
basically an equatorial mount driven by a linear actuator. That\'s
probably what you will end up using.

How many of these birds can you see?
<https://www.ftalist.com/satellites.php>

Incidentally, when I was involved in moving these dishes around the
property:
<http://www.learnbydestroying.com/jeffl/antennas/dish-move-project/index.html>
<http://www.learnbydestroying.com/jeffl/antennas/dish-new-install-project/index.html>
<http://www.learnbydestroying.com/jeffl/antennas/dish-move-03/index.html>
I had considerable difficulty just finding the right satellite, much
less positioning the dish to the optimum location. Never mind the
protocols or code. Worry about the mechanical problems first.

>and a gear drive with a stepper would be fairly simple as well.

If you\'re going to do it with worm or spur gears, think about backlash
problems. I suggest you start with a simple Ku band 0.6 meter dish
and J-mount and use it to try an find a satellite. That should give
you a clue as to how critical dish alignment can be. Incidentally,
for Ku FTA, the minimum dish size is about 1.0 meters dia. DBS
(DirecTV and Dish) dishes won\'t work.

>I want to try FTA satellite TV, without spending $1000.

I might have a present for you. I inherited several older FTH (Free
To Air) receivers and pile of DISEq switches from a friend. The
receivers have been modified to decrypt Dish DBS programming. I think
that I can put the original firmware back so you can use it for FTH.
The catch is that I just closed down the office and everything is now
scattered around the house and decks. I can\'t find anything. It will
rain in about a month and everything on the decks will likely be
soaked. Can you wait a month or more? Email in signature works.
Remind me if I forget.

\"Free to Air (FTA) Satellite Dish Setup\"
<https://www.instructables.com/id/Free-To-Air-FTA-Satellite-Dish-setup/>

--
Jeff Liebermann jeffl@cruzio.com
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

 

[Michael Terrell]

On Sunday, September 27, 2020 at 11:25:33 PM UTC-4, Jeff Liebermann wrote:

On Sat, 26 Sep 2020 18:22:49 -0700 (PDT), Michael Terrell wrote:

Has anyone worked with DiSEqC™ 1.2 or other versions that
communicate with a positioner for a kU band dish?
Nope. All the DBS stuff I installed or repaired used a fixed Ku or Ka
band dish, and multiple LNB\'s to switch between satellites. The only
motors I\'ve had to deal with were in ancient C-band dishes and fine
alignment large (12 meter) dishes that had to deal with separating
multiple satellites in a single orbital slot. If there was any DiSeq
technology involved, it was well hidden inside the controllers and
actuators.
Commercial units are typically $400 and up. I\'ve found a few old
references to a DIY controller using a PIC, but no code or much
else.

A Horizon to Horizon mount isn\'t difficult to build,
You mean an equatorial mount?

Yes, I was thinking of the old portable RADAR systems that I serviced.

They might be easy to build, but they
are a nightmare to align properly. The satellites are spaced 2
degrees apart with an accuracy of 0.1 degrees. To insure that you
don\'t get interference from the satellites in an adjacent slot, you\'ll
need about +/-0.6 degree horizontal positioning accuracy. That\'s not
easy to do with either an \"arm-strong\" rotator, or an
electromechanical equivalent. The typical home C-band dish is
basically an equatorial mount driven by a linear actuator. That\'s
probably what you will end up using.

Those C band actuators are actually 24 volt trailer jacks. /they use an internal leadscrew to adjust the length of the arm. I\'ve rebuilt many of them, and even straightened one that was bend by high winds.

How many of these birds can you see?
https://www.ftalist.com/satellites.php

Incidentally, when I was involved in moving these dishes around the
property:
http://www.learnbydestroying.com/jeffl/antennas/dish-move-project/index.html
http://www.learnbydestroying.com/jeffl/antennas/dish-new-install-project/index.html
http://www.learnbydestroying.com/jeffl/antennas/dish-move-03/index.html
I had considerable difficulty just finding the right satellite, much
less positioning the dish to the optimum location. Never mind the
protocols or code. Worry about the mechanical problems first.
and a gear drive with a stepper would be fairly simple as well.
If you\'re going to do it with worm or spur gears, think about backlash
problems. I suggest you start with a simple Ku band 0.6 meter dish
and J-mount and use it to try an find a satellite.

They recommend a 30\" minimum dish, but I should have one of those old dishes from the Radio Shack systems that was 1.5 meters..
A rigid mount with the dish on a good set of bearing blocks will take care of play in the mount. Driving the leadscrew directly from a stepper , and adjustable end bearings will take care of the backlash. Unlike C-band, the entire arc is from 87 to 125 degrees, or 38 degrees from end to end. That simplifies the design, compared to large and heavy C-band antennas.

SES 2 (87.0 W)
Galaxy 28 (89.0 W)
Galaxy 17 (91.0 W)
Galaxy 3C (95.0 W)
Galaxy 19 (97.0 W)
Galaxy 16 (99.0 W)
SES 3 (103.0 W)
AMC 15 (105.0 W)
Eutelsat113 (113.0 W)
Eutelsat117 (116.8 W)
Galaxy 18 (123.0 W)
AMC 21 (125.0 W)

I had to replace a C-band dish that was ripped off the steel pipe, and the pipe was bent. I couldn\'t convince the owner that it had to be plumb, and it was over 15% off after a storm. I ended up usingg a wide nylon towing strap and his customize van to repeatedly jerk the top of the pipe until it was usable.

Jeff, I installed and maintained multiple feed 5 Meter dishes for CATV Headends. That included converting them from Cassegrain to prime focus. One was real fun. It was a SA dish, and conversion kit. The assembly drawings were wrong. the way it was drawn had the wrong focal length. I could sweep it 15 degrees and still have a poor signal through the entire range. Once we had the proper instructions, it worked like a charm. I installed an early Dish system for my dad. It wasn\'t that hard to aim, and fine tune.

That should give
you a clue as to how critical dish alignment can be. Incidentally,
for Ku FTA, the minimum dish size is about 1.0 meters dia. DBS
(DirecTV and Dish) dishes won\'t work.
I want to try FTA satellite TV, without spending $1000.
I might have a present for you. I inherited several older FTH (Free
To Air) receivers and pile of DISEq switches from a friend. The
receivers have been modified to decrypt Dish DBS programming. I think
that I can put the original firmware back so you can use it for FTH.
The catch is that I just closed down the office and everything is now
scattered around the house and decks. I can\'t find anything. It will
rain in about a month and everything on the decks will likely be
soaked. Can you wait a month or more? Email in signature works.
Remind me if I forget.

Thanks. I have a new in the box FTA receiver sitting here, along with a new LNB and mounting bracket so don\'t worry about it, for now. it is a GTMedia V8X HD Satellite Receiver.

\"Free to Air (FTA) Satellite Dish Setup\"
https://www.instructables.com/id/Free-To-Air-FTA-Satellite-Dish-setup/

I am using kA band for internet.It sucks, but it was the only service available after Spectrum refused to repair thir crap. It looks like Fiber is getting closer to my place. I\'ve seen the county\'s trucks installing plastic conduit into new areas. I will gladly dump Hughesnet, if it becomes available.

 

[Michael Terrell]

On Saturday, September 26, 2020 at 9:22:55 PM UTC-4, Michael Terrell wrote:

Has anyone worked with DiSEqC™ 1.2 or other versions that communicate with a positioner for a kU band dish?
Commercial units are typically $400 and up. I\'ve found a few old references to a DIY controller using a PIC, but no code or much else. A Horizon to Horizon mount isn\'t difficult to build, and a gear drive with a stepper would be fairly simple as well. I want to try FTA satellite TV, without spending $1000.

It looks like I will have to design and build an analyzer for DiSEqC™ 1.2 too see the commands being sent to steer the motor, along with the commands to store positions, and to recall them before I can build a working positioner.

 

[Jeff Liebermann]

On Wed, 30 Sep 2020 11:28:48 -0700 (PDT), Michael Terrell
<terrell.michael.a@gmail.com> wrote:

On Saturday, September 26, 2020 at 9:22:55 PM UTC-4, Michael Terrell wrote:
Has anyone worked with DiSEqC™ 1.2 or other versions that communicate with a positioner for a kU band dish?
Commercial units are typically $400 and up. I\'ve found a few old references to a DIY controller using a PIC, but no code or much else. A Horizon to Horizon mount isn\'t difficult to build, and a gear drive with a stepper would be fairly simple as well. I want to try FTA satellite TV, without spending $1000.


It looks like I will have to design and build an analyzer for DiSEqC™ 1.2 too see the commands being sent to steer the motor, along with the commands to store positions, and to recall them before I can build a working positioner.

Eutelsat DiSEQc specs:
<https://de.eutelsat.com/en/support/technical-support/diseqc.html>
See the bus specs and positioner app notes.

DiSEqC Protocol and Low-Noise Block Voltage
Regulator TPS65235 for Satellite – STB/TV
<https://www.ti.com/lit/an/slva863/slva863.pdf>

More:
<https://www.google.com/search?q=diseqc%20protocol%20specification%20-site%3Apinterest.*>

--
Jeff Liebermann jeffl@cruzio.com
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

 

[Michael Terrell]

On Wednesday, September 30, 2020 at 5:22:45 PM UTC-4, Jeff wrote:

On Wed, 30 Sep 2020 11:28:48 -0700 (PDT), Michael Terrell wrote:

On Saturday, September 26, 2020 at 9:22:55 PM UTC-4, Michael Terrell wrote:
Has anyone worked with DiSEqC™ 1.2 or other versions that communicate with a positioner for a kU band dish?
Commercial units are typically $400 and up. I\'ve found a few old references to a DIY controller using a PIC, but no code or much else. A mount to allow tracking isn\'t difficult to build, and a gear drive with a stepper driving a leadscrew would be fairly simple as well. I want to try FTA satellite TV, without spending $1000.


It looks like I will have to design and build an analyzer for DiSEqC™ 1.2 too see the commands being sent to steer the motor, along with the commands to store positions, and to recall them before I can build a working positioner.

Eutelsat DiSEQc specs:
https://de.eutelsat.com/en/support/technical-support/diseqc.html
See the bus specs and positioner app notes.

I found a zip file of all their documents after my last post
https://www.eutelsat.com/files/PDF/DiSEqC-documentation.zip

DiSEqC Protocol and Low-Noise Block Voltage
Regulator TPS65235 for Satellite – STB/TV
https://www.ti.com/lit/an/slva863/slva863.pdf

More:
https://www.google.com/search?q=diseqc%20protocol%20specification%20-site%3Apinterest.*

I also found where someone used an Arduino to track the sun with DiSEqC™ 1.2 I will download their code to see if it has anything useful. It is the opposite of what I need, but it might lead to another project. Maybe a test set to test the switches and motors.
https://github.com/acrerd/Arduino-Diseqc-solar-tracker

Thanks, Jeff.

 

[Jeff Liebermann]

On Wed, 30 Sep 2020 21:30:54 -0700 (PDT), Michael Terrell
<terrell.michael.a@gmail.com> wrote:

On Wednesday, September 30, 2020 at 5:22:45 PM UTC-4, Jeff wrote:
On Wed, 30 Sep 2020 11:28:48 -0700 (PDT), Michael Terrell wrote:

On Saturday, September 26, 2020 at 9:22:55 PM UTC-4, Michael Terrell wrote:
Has anyone worked with DiSEqC™ 1.2 or other versions that communicate with a positioner for a kU band dish?
Commercial units are typically $400 and up. I\'ve found a few old references to a DIY controller using a PIC, but no code or much else. A mount to allow tracking isn\'t difficult to build, and a gear drive with a stepper driving a leadscrew would be fairly simple as well. I want to try FTA satellite TV, without spending $1000.


It looks like I will have to design and build an analyzer for DiSEqC™ 1.2 too see the commands being sent to steer the motor, along with the commands to store positions, and to recall them before I can build a working positioner.

Eutelsat DiSEQc specs:
https://de.eutelsat.com/en/support/technical-support/diseqc.html
See the bus specs and positioner app notes.

I found a zip file of all their documents after my last post
https://www.eutelsat.com/files/PDF/DiSEqC-documentation.zip

DiSEqC Protocol and Low-Noise Block Voltage
Regulator TPS65235 for Satellite – STB/TV
https://www.ti.com/lit/an/slva863/slva863.pdf

More:
https://www.google.com/search?q=diseqc%20protocol%20specification%20-site%3Apinterest.*

I also found where someone used an Arduino to track the sun with DiSEqC™ 1.2 I will download their code to see if it has anything useful. It is the opposite of what I need, but it might lead to another project. Maybe a test set to test the switches and motors.
https://github.com/acrerd/Arduino-Diseqc-solar-tracker

Nice. I\'ve wanted to build something like that for a solar power
tracker using commonly available TVRO hardware. Yet another project.

I also found manual exert on controlling LNB\'s and Diseqc switches.
Might be useful for something:
\"DiSEqC COMMANDS\"
<https://www.promaxelectronics.com/downloads/manuals/English/diseqc-commands.pdf>
It\'s part of the manual on their RangerNeo 2 spectrum analyzer. See
the manual sections highlighted in bold text at:
<https://www.promaxelectronics.com/ing/products/tv-cable-and-satellite-field-strength-meters/ranger-neo-2/professional-field-strength-meter-and-spectrum-analyzer/>
On the data sheet (Pg 22):
<https://www.promaxelectronics.com/downloads/products/ing/ranger-neo-2.pdf>
it indicates that it has a built in Diseqc controller:
DiSEqC commands
Elementary DiSEqC commands are available from a drop-down
list. They can be combined to form macros which can also
be associated to a channel table.
and:
DiSEqC 2.x generator (DiSEqC 1.2 commands implemented)
dCSS / SCD 2 (EN50607) and SATCR/SCD (EN50494)

Drivel: Looks like fire weather again on the left coast. It will be
104F today, low humidity, with possible high winds. If a fire starts
today, it will likely spread quickly. Instead of playing on the
computer, I\'m going to load the car up with my survival kit and hope
for the best. To be continued, I hope.

--
Jeff Liebermann jeffl@cruzio.com
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

 

[Michael Terrell]

On Thursday, October 1, 2020 at 2:37:52 PM UTC-4, Jeff Liebermann wrote:

On Wed, 30 Sep 2020 21:30:54 -0700 (PDT), Michael Terrell wrote:

I also found where someone used an Arduino to track the sun with DiSEqC™ 1.2 I will download their code to see if it has anything useful. It is the opposite of what I need, but it might lead to another project. Maybe a test set to test the switches and motors.
https://github.com/acrerd/Arduino-Diseqc-solar-tracker
Nice. I\'ve wanted to build something like that for a solar power
tracker using commonly available TVRO hardware. Yet another project.

I also found manual exert on controlling LNB\'s and Diseqc switches.
Might be useful for something:
\"DiSEqC COMMANDS\"
https://www.promaxelectronics.com/downloads/manuals/English/diseqc-commands.pdf
It\'s part of the manual on their RangerNeo 2 spectrum analyzer. See
the manual sections highlighted in bold text at:
https://www.promaxelectronics.com/ing/products/tv-cable-and-satellite-field-strength-meters/ranger-neo-2/professional-field-strength-meter-and-spectrum-analyzer/
On the data sheet (Pg 22):
https://www.promaxelectronics.com/downloads/products/ing/ranger-neo-2.pdf
it indicates that it has a built in Diseqc controller:
DiSEqC commands
Elementary DiSEqC commands are available from a drop-down
list. They can be combined to form macros which can also
be associated to a channel table.
and:
DiSEqC 2.x generator (DiSEqC 1.2 commands implemented)
dCSS / SCD 2 (EN50607) and SATCR/SCD (EN50494)

I\'ll check those out, and if I find anything else interesting, I\'ll share it here.

Drivel: Looks like fire weather again on the left coast. It will be
104F today, low humidity, with possible high winds. If a fire starts
today, it will likely spread quickly. Instead of playing on the
computer, I\'m going to load the car up with my survival kit and hope
for the best. To be continued, I hope.

It was 60F here in N Central Florida yesterday morning. We finally had a break in the rain. I try not to go outside when it\'s wet, because I\'f fallen several times.

I leave some supplies in my van, in case I have to bug out. Take care, and God Bless!