different hfe's on these transistors

Johan Wagener · May 7, 2004

I bought the following transistors for an amplifier project. 2N5416
and 2N3440 made by CDIL.

I checked their hfe's and had the following result:

All the 2N5416's have hfe of 100 except one which had hfe of 66.

2N3440's had hfe's of about 69-72 except one which had a hfe of 58.

Is this ok?

Is the hfe of these transistors high enough? I checked the datasheets
and the specify hfe's of 40-160 for 2N3440 and 30-150 of 2N5415

Can I use transistors with different hfe's?

CWatters · May 7, 2004

"Johan Wagener" <johanwagener@webmail.co.za> wrote in message
news:c86a2c09.0405071042.7cae4988@posting.google.com...

<snip>

Can I use transistors with different hfe's?

A good electronics engineer will design his circuit to tollerate worse case
parts. The spec says hfe can be as low as 40 or 30 and yours are higher than
that so you should be ok.

CWatters · May 7, 2004

I forgot.... sometimes it is necessary to use parts with a specific minimum
hfe. Normally in such cases the designer will specify you need the C version
of a transistor. For example they will specify you need a BC109C rather than
just a BC109....however this is very bad practice. It's much better to
design out the need for a specific hfe.

John Popelish · May 7, 2004

Johan Wagener wrote:

I bought the following transistors for an amplifier project. 2N5416
and 2N3440 made by CDIL.

I checked their hfe's and had the following result:

All the 2N5416's have hfe of 100 except one which had hfe of 66.

2N3440's had hfe's of about 69-72 except one which had a hfe of 58.

Is this ok?

Is the hfe of these transistors high enough? I checked the datasheets
and the specify hfe's of 40-160 for 2N3440 and 30-150 of 2N5415

Can I use transistors with different hfe's?

So you are saying that all your transistors are within datasheet
limits.

hfe is not a very well controlled parameter (typically varying over a
3 to 1 range in production). You had better learn how to design
circuits to handle this range of variation or trim every circuit by
hand.

--
John Popelish

Sofie · May 7, 2004

Johan Wagoner:
Your actual test results of the transistors were well within the
manufacturer's specified range that you posted.
If you need matched pairs for push-pull or parallel circuitry considerations
then you can use selected transistors based on the results of your tests,
otherwise they all meet specifications.
--
Best Regards,
Daniel Sofie
Electronics Supply & Repair
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

"Johan Wagener" <johanwagener@webmail.co.za> wrote in message
news:c86a2c09.0405071042.7cae4988@posting.google.com...

I bought the following transistors for an amplifier project. 2N5416
and 2N3440 made by CDIL.

I checked their hfe's and had the following result:

All the 2N5416's have hfe of 100 except one which had hfe of 66.

2N3440's had hfe's of about 69-72 except one which had a hfe of 58.

Is this ok?

Is the hfe of these transistors high enough? I checked the datasheets
and the specify hfe's of 40-160 for 2N3440 and 30-150 of 2N5415

Can I use transistors with different hfe's?

John Larkin · May 7, 2004

On 7 May 2004 11:42:47 -0700, johanwagener@webmail.co.za (Johan
Wagener) wrote:

I bought the following transistors for an amplifier project. 2N5416
and 2N3440 made by CDIL.

I checked their hfe's and had the following result:

All the 2N5416's have hfe of 100 except one which had hfe of 66.

2N3440's had hfe's of about 69-72 except one which had a hfe of 58.

Is this ok?

They're in spec.

Is the hfe of these transistors high enough?

Depends on what you need.

I checked the datasheets
and the specify hfe's of 40-160 for 2N3440 and 30-150 of 2N5415

Can I use transistors with different hfe's?

Decent circuit designs are beta-variation-tolerant. Fixed base current
linear design is called "suicide bias"... some transistors may work,
and some may not. Design to work over the transistor's spec'd beta
range, or worse.

John

Johan Wagener · May 8, 2004

John Larkin <jjlarkin@highSNIPlandTHIStechPLEASEnology.com> wrote in message news:<vqmn90hnje358npupmlhk6mljdre4ra7q8@4ax.com>...

On 7 May 2004 11:42:47 -0700, johanwagener@webmail.co.za (Johan
Wagener) wrote:

I bought the following transistors for an amplifier project. 2N5416
and 2N3440 made by CDIL.

I checked their hfe's and had the following result:

All the 2N5416's have hfe of 100 except one which had hfe of 66.

2N3440's had hfe's of about 69-72 except one which had a hfe of 58.

Is this ok?

They're in spec.

Is the hfe of these transistors high enough?

Depends on what you need.

I checked the datasheets
and the specify hfe's of 40-160 for 2N3440 and 30-150 of 2N5415

Can I use transistors with different hfe's?

Decent circuit designs are beta-variation-tolerant. Fixed base current
linear design is called "suicide bias"... some transistors may work,
and some may not. Design to work over the transistor's spec'd beta
range, or worse.

John

This is for use in the leach amplifier.

Jason D. · May 9, 2004

On 7 May 2004 11:42:47 -0700, johanwagener@webmail.co.za (Johan
Wagener) wrote:

I bought the following transistors for an amplifier project. 2N5416
and 2N3440 made by CDIL.

I checked their hfe's and had the following result:

All the 2N5416's have hfe of 100 except one which had hfe of 66.

2N3440's had hfe's of about 69-72 except one which had a hfe of 58.

Is this ok?

Is the hfe of these transistors high enough? I checked the datasheets
and the specify hfe's of 40-160 for 2N3440 and 30-150 of 2N5415

Can I use transistors with different hfe's?

I never heard of CDIL, but that markings usually screams "GENERIC"!
Didn't you got them for good price? If so that's the reason and and
are faked.

I got few stuff made by NSC and few of them looked real and had
correct brands too marked and I don't trust them either because of too
good to be true prices.

In audio stuff, close hfe values usually is preferred to get smaller
0V crossing distortations.

The large transistors made for high power audio stuff are in 20 to 40
dollars range not 5 bux range that generics abounds.

Cheers,

Wizard

Al · May 9, 2004

In article <409de4c7.34488093@news1.on.sympatico.ca>,
jpero@sympatico.ca (Jason D.) wrote:

On 7 May 2004 11:42:47 -0700, johanwagener@webmail.co.za (Johan
Wagener) wrote:

I bought the following transistors for an amplifier project. 2N5416
and 2N3440 made by CDIL.

I checked their hfe's and had the following result:

All the 2N5416's have hfe of 100 except one which had hfe of 66.

2N3440's had hfe's of about 69-72 except one which had a hfe of 58.

Is this ok?

Is the hfe of these transistors high enough? I checked the datasheets
and the specify hfe's of 40-160 for 2N3440 and 30-150 of 2N5415

Can I use transistors with different hfe's?

I never heard of CDIL, but that markings usually screams "GENERIC"!
Didn't you got them for good price? If so that's the reason and and
are faked.

I got few stuff made by NSC and few of them looked real and had
correct brands too marked and I don't trust them either because of too
good to be true prices.

In audio stuff, close hfe values usually is preferred to get smaller
0V crossing distortations.

The large transistors made for high power audio stuff are in 20 to 40
dollars range not 5 bux range that generics abounds.

Hfes from one transistor lot should be close. Variations are to be
expected between lots. That's why the range in the spec is so high. If
you want them close, you will pay extra for it. And most likely the mfgr
will just select them for you.

As an example, years ago, we tested a large lot of resistors of one
value we had purchased. The purchase tolerance was +-5%. Yes, They were
all in that range. But...there was a big hole in the plot at +- 1%. It
looks like the mfgr had separated out all the resistors that were +- 1%
from the lot and sold them as such. We got he +- 5%, which is what we
had asked for. We were too stupid to specify a normal distribution in
the resistor values.

The same will hold for almost any component you buy.

Al

--
There's never enough time to do it right the first time.......

John Larkin · May 9, 2004

On 8 May 2004 03:26:07 -0700, johanwagener@webmail.co.za (Johan
Wagener) wrote:

John Larkin <jjlarkin@highSNIPlandTHIStechPLEASEnology.com> wrote in message news:<vqmn90hnje358npupmlhk6mljdre4ra7q8@4ax.com>...
On 7 May 2004 11:42:47 -0700, johanwagener@webmail.co.za (Johan
Wagener) wrote:

I bought the following transistors for an amplifier project. 2N5416
and 2N3440 made by CDIL.

I checked their hfe's and had the following result:

All the 2N5416's have hfe of 100 except one which had hfe of 66.

2N3440's had hfe's of about 69-72 except one which had a hfe of 58.

Is this ok?

They're in spec.

Is the hfe of these transistors high enough?

Depends on what you need.

I checked the datasheets
and the specify hfe's of 40-160 for 2N3440 and 30-150 of 2N5415

Can I use transistors with different hfe's?

Decent circuit designs are beta-variation-tolerant. Fixed base current
linear design is called "suicide bias"... some transistors may work,
and some may not. Design to work over the transistor's spec'd beta
range, or worse.

John

This is for use in the leach amplifier.

Oh, audio. In that case, all rational design considerations are void.
File the corners off the packages or dip them in red wine or whatever
makes it sound best.

John

Jim Thompson · May 9, 2004

On Sun, 09 May 2004 09:56:37 -0700, John Larkin
<jjlarkin@highlandSNIPtechTHISnologyPLEASE.com> wrote:

On 8 May 2004 03:26:07 -0700, johanwagener@webmail.co.za (Johan
Wagener) wrote:

[snip]
This is for use in the leach amplifier.

Oh, audio. In that case, all rational design considerations are void.
File the corners off the packages or dip them in red wine or whatever
makes it sound best.

John

480)460-2350 | |
| E-mail Address at Website Fax

Watson A.Name \"Watt Sun · May 11, 2004

Jim Thompson wrote:

On Sun, 09 May 2004 09:56:37 -0700, John Larkin
jjlarkin@highlandSNIPtechTHISnologyPLEASE.com> wrote:

On 8 May 2004 03:26:07 -0700, johanwagener@webmail.co.za (Johan
Wagener) wrote:

[snip]

This is for use in the leach amplifier.

Oh, audio. In that case, all rational design considerations are void.
File the corners off the packages or dip them in red wine or whatever
makes it sound best.

John

ROTFLMAO!

...Jim Thompson

Yous guys should start circulating a claim among the audiophiles that
only amps and other audio electronics sound excellent if they were
designed and drafted with pencil and drafting board. Any audio
component won't have the right sound if it was designed with a lowly
computter program!

Jim Thompson · May 11, 2004

On Tue, 11 May 2004 07:31:21 -0700, "Watson A.Name \"Watt Sun - the
Dark Remover\"" <NOSPAM@dslextreme.com> wrote:

Jim Thompson wrote:

On Sun, 09 May 2004 09:56:37 -0700, John Larkin
jjlarkin@highlandSNIPtechTHISnologyPLEASE.com> wrote:

On 8 May 2004 03:26:07 -0700, johanwagener@webmail.co.za (Johan
Wagener) wrote:

[snip]

This is for use in the leach amplifier.

Oh, audio. In that case, all rational design considerations are void.
File the corners off the packages or dip them in red wine or whatever
makes it sound best.

John

ROTFLMAO!

...Jim Thompson

Yous guys should start circulating a claim among the audiophiles that
only amps and other audio electronics sound excellent if they were
designed and drafted with pencil and drafting board. Any audio
component won't have the right sound if it was designed with a lowly
computter program!

480)460-2350 | |
| E-mail Address at Website Fax

John Larkin · May 11, 2004

On Tue, 11 May 2004 07:41:01 -0700, Jim Thompson
<thegreatone@example.com> wrote:

On Tue, 11 May 2004 07:31:21 -0700, "Watson A.Name \"Watt Sun - the
Dark Remover\"" <NOSPAM@dslextreme.com> wrote:

Jim Thompson wrote:

On Sun, 09 May 2004 09:56:37 -0700, John Larkin
jjlarkin@highlandSNIPtechTHISnologyPLEASE.com> wrote:

On 8 May 2004 03:26:07 -0700, johanwagener@webmail.co.za (Johan
Wagener) wrote:

[snip]

This is for use in the leach amplifier.

Oh, audio. In that case, all rational design considerations are void.
File the corners off the packages or dip them in red wine or whatever
makes it sound best.

John

ROTFLMAO!

...Jim Thompson

Yous guys should start circulating a claim among the audiophiles that
only amps and other audio electronics sound excellent if they were
designed and drafted with pencil and drafting board. Any audio
component won't have the right sound if it was designed with a lowly
computter program!

What do you mean start circulating a "claim", it's TRUE ;-)

...Jim Thompson

The best audio interconnects are gold-plated, custom-bent hardline
coaxial cables with SMA connectors.

John

Jim Thompson · May 11, 2004

On Tue, 11 May 2004 08:04:08 -0700, John Larkin
<jjlarkin@highlandSNIPtechTHISnologyPLEASE.com> wrote:

[snip]

The best audio interconnects are gold-plated, custom-bent hardline
coaxial cables with SMA connectors.

John

Not necessarily so!

I had a fellow working for me that bought a Heapshit Preamp Kit many
years ago.

He didn't like the looks of the audio coax included with the kit, so
he substituted some nice ultra-small diameter teflon cable (shielded)
that we had in the lab.

Bye, bye, high frequency response.

...Jim Thompson
--
| James E.Thompson, P.E. | mens |
| Analog Innovations, Inc. | et |
| Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems | manus |
| Phoenix, Arizona Voice

480)460-2350 | |
| E-mail Address at Website Fax

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