Designing a 1 bit cpu ?

[Skybuck Flying]

Hi,

I just learned that electronics can be designed via languages... COOL =D

This is related to the variable bit cpu.

Can you design a 1 bit cpu ? (I could help you with some concepts/designs to
get it going )

Ofcourse first we have to work out a bit more how it would all work but
still..

Do you think you could do it in say VHDL ?

How long would it take you to design a 1 bit cpu ?

Bye,
Skybuck =D

 

[jabara]

"Skybuck Flying" <nospam@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:dcmgq4$73c$1@news6.zwoll1.ov.home.nl...

Hi,

I just learned that electronics can be designed via languages... COOL =D

This is related to the variable bit cpu.

Can you design a 1 bit cpu ? (I could help you with some concepts/designs
to
get it going )

Ofcourse first we have to work out a bit more how it would all work but
still..

Do you think you could do it in say VHDL ?

How long would it take you to design a 1 bit cpu ?

Is that 1 bit serial or parallel?

 

[John Popelish]

Skybuck Flying wrote:

Hi,

I just learned that electronics can be designed via languages... COOL =D

This is related to the variable bit cpu.

Can you design a 1 bit cpu ? (I could help you with some concepts/designs to
get it going )

Ofcourse first we have to work out a bit more how it would all work but
still..

Do you think you could do it in say VHDL ?

How long would it take you to design a 1 bit cpu ?

Bye,
Skybuck =D


Its been done. Have you seen the MC14500B?

http://www.datasheet4u.com/html/M/C/1/MC14500BCL_MotorolaInc.pdf.html

 

[robertwessel2@yahoo.com]

Skybuck Flying wrote:

Hi,

I just learned that electronics can be designed via languages... COOL =D

This is related to the variable bit cpu.

Can you design a 1 bit cpu ? (I could help you with some concepts/designs to
get it going )

Ofcourse first we have to work out a bit more how it would all work but
still..

Do you think you could do it in say VHDL ?

How long would it take you to design a 1 bit cpu ?

While there aren't any one bit CPUs, there are a couple of dozen CPU
designs at www.opencores.org, from eight-bit PIC and AVR compatibles to
32 bit designs, most with source in Verilog or VHDL.

One bit CPUs are largely pointless. First, you're almost certainly
talking about a microcontroller architecture, so only data memory and
registers are actually one bit wide, and the trade off for program size
vs. the (few) gates saved in the ALU will be really bad for almost all
applications. There are a few uses of four-bit microcontrollers but
only where the very small cost differential from an eight-bit can be
collected over a very large number of units made, and then they're only
applicable to a rather small number of applications.

However, a simple RISC or eight-bitter is well within the capabilities
of someone with some background designing stuff ASICs or using the
larger programmable logic parts, and with a few free months on their
hands. You will quickly discover that the problem is not getting a CPU
to execute a few opcodes, but building a software tool-chain so that
you can do anything interesting with it.

 

[Bob Monsen]

Skybuck Flying wrote:

Hi,

I just learned that electronics can be designed via languages... COOL =D

This is related to the variable bit cpu.

Can you design a 1 bit cpu ? (I could help you with some concepts/designs to
get it going )

Ofcourse first we have to work out a bit more how it would all work but
still..

Do you think you could do it in say VHDL ?

How long would it take you to design a 1 bit cpu ?

Bye,
Skybuck =D

I like the idea of a two-bit cpu much better. I bet you'll soon be able
to get uCs in volume for a quarter.

--
Regards,
Bob Monsen

If a little knowledge is dangerous, where is the man who has
so much as to be out of danger?
Thomas Henry Huxley, 1877

 

[keith]

On Tue, 02 Aug 2005 03:05:44 +0200, Skybuck Flying wrote:

Hi,

I just learned that electronics can be designed via languages... COOL =D

Isn't that the whole point behind VHDL and Verilog?

This is related to the variable bit cpu.

It's been done.

Can you design a 1 bit cpu ?

Define "1-bit". The PDP-8I (or was it E) had a 1-bit ALU. If you're
looking at one-bit "registers", Google "touring machine".

(I could help you with some concepts/designs to
get it going )

Why? Sounds boring.

Ofcourse first we have to work out a bit more how it would all work but
still..

Do you think you could do it in say VHDL ?

Certainly. That's my choice of HDL.

How long would it take you to design a 1 bit cpu ?

It depends on your definition of "1 bit CPU" and how much money you have.
I already have a day job though. ;-)

--
Keith

 

[keith]

On Mon, 01 Aug 2005 20:26:17 -0500, jabara wrote:

"Skybuck Flying" <nospam@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:dcmgq4$73c$1@news6.zwoll1.ov.home.nl...
Hi,

I just learned that electronics can be designed via languages... COOL =D

This is related to the variable bit cpu.

Can you design a 1 bit cpu ? (I could help you with some concepts/designs
to
get it going )

Ofcourse first we have to work out a bit more how it would all work but
still..

Do you think you could do it in say VHDL ?

How long would it take you to design a 1 bit cpu ?


Is that 1 bit serial or parallel?

Serial in, parallel out. ;-)

--
Keith

 

[Skybuck Flying]

"jabara" <nospam@invalid.com> wrote in message
news:42eecba9$0$3429$892e7fe2@authen.white.readfreenews.net...

"Skybuck Flying" <nospam@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:dcmgq4$73c$1@news6.zwoll1.ov.home.nl...
Hi,

I just learned that electronics can be designed via languages... COOL =D

This is related to the variable bit cpu.

Can you design a 1 bit cpu ? (I could help you with some
concepts/designs
to
get it going )

Ofcourse first we have to work out a bit more how it would all work but
still..

Do you think you could do it in say VHDL ?

How long would it take you to design a 1 bit cpu ?


Is that 1 bit serial or parallel?

I get it, good joke

Though in serial... it should remember the carry. And when it does the next
calculation it takes carry into account

Maybe I should have called it a two bit cpu.

It's like this:

-- bitstream A --->
add CPU -- bitstream C --->
-- bitstream B --->

Bye,
Skybuck.

 

[Skybuck Flying]

"Bob Monsen" <rcsurname@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:UcmdnbhTLoH4Q3PfRVn-sQ@comcast.com...

Skybuck Flying wrote:
Hi,

I just learned that electronics can be designed via languages... COOL =D

This is related to the variable bit cpu.

Can you design a 1 bit cpu ? (I could help you with some
concepts/designs to
get it going )

Ofcourse first we have to work out a bit more how it would all work but
still..

Do you think you could do it in say VHDL ?

How long would it take you to design a 1 bit cpu ?

Bye,
Skybuck =D



I like the idea of a two-bit cpu much better. I bet you'll soon be able
to get uCs in volume for a quarter.

You might be right about that...

See my other post... where I explain further

Maybe it should have been called a 2 bit cpu

Or did you mean something else ?

Bye,
Skybuck.

 

[Bob Monsen]

Skybuck Flying wrote:

"Bob Monsen" <rcsurname@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:UcmdnbhTLoH4Q3PfRVn-sQ@comcast.com...

Skybuck Flying wrote:

Hi,

I just learned that electronics can be designed via languages... COOL =D

This is related to the variable bit cpu.

Can you design a 1 bit cpu ? (I could help you with some

concepts/designs to

get it going )

Ofcourse first we have to work out a bit more how it would all work but
still..

Do you think you could do it in say VHDL ?

How long would it take you to design a 1 bit cpu ?

Bye,
Skybuck =D



I like the idea of a two-bit cpu much better. I bet you'll soon be able
to get uCs in volume for a quarter.


You might be right about that...

See my other post... where I explain further

Maybe it should have been called a 2 bit cpu

Or did you mean something else ?

Sorry, a silly pun, two bits is a quarter for people born during the
dark ages.

--
Regards,
Bob Monsen

If a little knowledge is dangerous, where is the man who has
so much as to be out of danger?
Thomas Henry Huxley, 1877

 

[keith]

On Tue, 02 Aug 2005 05:12:47 +0200, Skybuck Flying wrote:

"jabara" <nospam@invalid.com> wrote in message
news:42eecba9$0$3429$892e7fe2@authen.white.readfreenews.net...

"Skybuck Flying" <nospam@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:dcmgq4$73c$1@news6.zwoll1.ov.home.nl...
Hi,

I just learned that electronics can be designed via languages... COOL =D

This is related to the variable bit cpu.

Can you design a 1 bit cpu ? (I could help you with some
concepts/designs
to
get it going )

Ofcourse first we have to work out a bit more how it would all work but
still..

Do you think you could do it in say VHDL ?

How long would it take you to design a 1 bit cpu ?


Is that 1 bit serial or parallel?

I get it, good joke

Though in serial... it should remember the carry. And when it does the next
calculation it takes carry into account

That's been done a thousand times.

Maybe I should have called it a two bit cpu.

No, one bit works. As I said before, one of the PDP8's had a single-bit
(serial) ALU. It is *not* something new.

It's like this:

-- bitstream A ---
add CPU -- bitstream C ---
-- bitstream B ---

Trivial. Do you want to that to go on forever, or is there some condition
that makes it stop so you can at least figure out what sign the result is? ;-)

--
Keith

 

[Don Taylor]

"Skybuck Flying" <nospam@hotmail.com> writes:

I just learned that electronics can be designed via languages... COOL =D

This is related to the variable bit cpu.

Can you design a 1 bit cpu ? (I could help you with some concepts/designs to
get it going )

Motorola had a 1 bit cpu for sale in the late 1970's I believe.
The part number was something like the 14001 if I have not forgotten,
not to be confused with the 4001.

Ofcourse first we have to work out a bit more how it would all work but
still..

I think I remember you used an external n bit counter for the program
counter, that continually incremented. That streamed 4 bit instructions
out of a program rom to feed the processor. The data path was one
bit wide. Branches were implemented with an internal flip flop
that would put the processor into "skip mode" where it would ignore
instructions until it reached an instruction that toggeled the flip
flop back. Both 0000 and 1111 were treated as no-ops, so that you
didn't have to program the whole rom, and so you could use roms
with either high or low bits in the unprogrammed state.

Years ago I had the data manual for this but I doubt I could find
it again. Finding and reading that might give you some ideas.

Do you think you could do it in say VHDL ?

How long would it take you to design a 1 bit cpu ?

Depends on how much experience you have writing VHDL.

 

[TheDoc]

"Skybuck Flying" <nospam@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:dcmgq4$73c$1@news6.zwoll1.ov.home.nl...

Hi,

I just learned that electronics can be designed via languages... COOL =D

This is related to the variable bit cpu.

Can you design a 1 bit cpu ? (I could help you with some concepts/designs
to
get it going )

Yawn..

try Motorola MC14500BCP.. they did it over 20 years ago..

Ofcourse first we have to work out a bit more how it would all work but
still..

Do you think you could do it in say VHDL ?

How long would it take you to design a 1 bit cpu ?

Bye,
Skybuck =D

 

[jabara]

"keith" <krw@att.bizzzz> wrote in message
newsan.2005.08.02.03.27.59.555385@att.bizzzz...

On Tue, 02 Aug 2005 05:12:47 +0200, Skybuck Flying wrote:


"jabara" <nospam@invalid.com> wrote in message
news:42eecba9$0$3429$892e7fe2@authen.white.readfreenews.net...

"Skybuck Flying" <nospam@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:dcmgq4$73c$1@news6.zwoll1.ov.home.nl...
Hi,

I just learned that electronics can be designed via languages... COOL
=D

This is related to the variable bit cpu.

Can you design a 1 bit cpu ? (I could help you with some
concepts/designs
to
get it going )

Ofcourse first we have to work out a bit more how it would all work
but
still..

Do you think you could do it in say VHDL ?

How long would it take you to design a 1 bit cpu ?


Is that 1 bit serial or parallel?

I get it, good joke

Though in serial... it should remember the carry. And when it does the
next
calculation it takes carry into account

That's been done a thousand times.

Maybe I should have called it a two bit cpu.

No, one bit works. As I said before, one of the PDP8's had a single-bit
(serial) ALU. It is *not* something new.

It's like this:

-- bitstream A ---
add CPU -- bitstream C ---
-- bitstream B ---

Trivial. Do you want to that to go on forever, or is there some condition
that makes it stop so you can at least figure out what sign the result is?
;-)

--
Keith

PDP8, gad I had forgotten those. Paper Tape Reader?
Extra Point Question: Name a code used on the paper tape storage.

 

[Skybuck Flying]

"keith" <krw@att.bizzzz> wrote in message
newsan.2005.08.02.03.27.59.555385@att.bizzzz...

On Tue, 02 Aug 2005 05:12:47 +0200, Skybuck Flying wrote:


"jabara" <nospam@invalid.com> wrote in message
news:42eecba9$0$3429$892e7fe2@authen.white.readfreenews.net...

"Skybuck Flying" <nospam@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:dcmgq4$73c$1@news6.zwoll1.ov.home.nl...
Hi,

I just learned that electronics can be designed via languages... COOL
=D

This is related to the variable bit cpu.

Can you design a 1 bit cpu ? (I could help you with some
concepts/designs
to
get it going )

Ofcourse first we have to work out a bit more how it would all work
but
still..

Do you think you could do it in say VHDL ?

How long would it take you to design a 1 bit cpu ?


Is that 1 bit serial or parallel?

I get it, good joke

Though in serial... it should remember the carry. And when it does the
next
calculation it takes carry into account

That's been done a thousand times.

Maybe I should have called it a two bit cpu.

No, one bit works. As I said before, one of the PDP8's had a single-bit
(serial) ALU. It is *not* something new.

It's like this:

-- bitstream A ---
add CPU -- bitstream C ---
-- bitstream B ---

Trivial. Do you want to that to go on forever, or is there some condition
that makes it stop so you can at least figure out what sign the result is?
;-)

All bitstreams are interleaved with "markers"

For example:

Encoding 1:

Data:
ddddddeeeeeeefff
Markers:
000001000001001

(one ending marker)

Alternatively:

Encoding 2:

Data:
ddddddeeeeeeefff
Markers:
100001100001101

(start and stop marker)

Encoding 3:

Data:
0dddddd0eeeeeee0fff0
Markers:
0111111011111101110

Data and Marker fields seperated by zero content and zero marker.

All content bits have an interleaved 1 marker bit.

In all cases it's easy for the CPU to detect when the end of a field in the
bitstream has been reached.

Once the end of a bitstream is reached the cpu will replace the register
with zero in case of addition.

The other bitstream will simply continue.

This would allow variable bit length fields to be streamed through the
processor and create a bitstream out...

So in otherwords variable bit stream addition etc.

Bye,
Skybuck.

 

[Skybuck Flying]

"TheDoc" <TheDoc@ev1.net> wrote in message
news:joCHe.95353$X76.12802@tornado.texas.rr.com...

"Skybuck Flying" <nospam@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:dcmgq4$73c$1@news6.zwoll1.ov.home.nl...
Hi,

I just learned that electronics can be designed via languages... COOL =D

This is related to the variable bit cpu.

Can you design a 1 bit cpu ? (I could help you with some
concepts/designs
to
get it going )


Yawn..

try Motorola MC14500BCP.. they did it over 20 years ago..

Can it do infinite integer arithmetic ?

Bye,
Skybuck.

 

[Skybuck Flying]

"John Popelish" <jpopelish@rica.net> wrote in message
news:0uGdncOq8IBcTXPfRVn-rA@adelphia.com...

Skybuck Flying wrote:
Hi,

I just learned that electronics can be designed via languages... COOL =D

This is related to the variable bit cpu.

Can you design a 1 bit cpu ? (I could help you with some
concepts/designs to
get it going )

Ofcourse first we have to work out a bit more how it would all work but
still..

Do you think you could do it in say VHDL ?

How long would it take you to design a 1 bit cpu ?

Bye,
Skybuck =D


Its been done. Have you seen the MC14500B?
http://www.datasheet4u.com/html/M/C/1/MC14500BCL_MotorolaInc.pdf.html

Can it do infinite integer arithmetic ?

Bye,
Skybuck.

 

[grunt]

Skybuck Flying wrote:

Hi,

I just learned that electronics can be designed via languages... COOL =D

This is related to the variable bit cpu.

Can you design a 1 bit cpu ? (I could help you with some concepts/designs to
get it going )

Among the possible futilities would foremost be the need for
serializing data, (with architecture and speed overhead), to express a
range greater then 1. Without this, you have at best 2 registers, and
2 memory locations, and one command (reserving the 0 for the nop). I'm
pretty sure now that when you explore this idea deeply enough, you can
reduce it to a flip-flop for simplicity, and your competitors will come
out with a NAND gate that can do the same job much faster. Even if you
tossed out the NOP command to extend the languange to two operations
I'm certain that all this chip could do is chase it's tail.

Your's is a good question though, and fun to ponder.

Agent X

 

[Skybuck Flying]

"grunt" <geoffreygallo@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1122960022.963096.44750@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...

Skybuck Flying wrote:
Hi,

I just learned that electronics can be designed via languages... COOL =D

This is related to the variable bit cpu.

Can you design a 1 bit cpu ? (I could help you with some
concepts/designs to
get it going )

Among the possible futilities would foremost be the need for
serializing data, (with architecture and speed overhead), to express a
range greater then 1. Without this, you have at best 2 registers, and
2 memory locations, and one command (reserving the 0 for the nop). I'm
pretty sure now that when you explore this idea deeply enough, you can
reduce it to a flip-flop for simplicity, and your competitors will come
out with a NAND gate that can do the same job much faster. Even if you
tossed out the NOP command to extend the languange to two operations
I'm certain that all this chip could do is chase it's tail.

Your's is a good question though, and fun to ponder.

Read up on the marker concept

Actually I don't blame you for not knowing it.

I just reinvented it a day ago.

1 bit cpu's aren't as limited as you might now think.

They can do conceptually anything that modern intel pentium's or athlon's
can do and even beyond, since they allow infinite integers and rational
numbers

Bye,
Skybuck.

 

[MK]

"keith" <krw@att.bizzzz> wrote in message
newsan.2005.08.02.03.06.53.422527@att.bizzzz...

On Tue, 02 Aug 2005 03:05:44 +0200, Skybuck Flying wrote:

Hi,

I just learned that electronics can be designed via languages... COOL =D

Isn't that the whole point behind VHDL and Verilog?

This is related to the variable bit cpu.

It's been done.

Can you design a 1 bit cpu ?

Define "1-bit". The PDP-8I (or was it E) had a 1-bit ALU. If you're
looking at one-bit "registers", Google "touring machine".

Snip

Keith

I think you mean Turing Machine (named after British mathematician).

It's a theoretical 1 bit machine and the point is that it can do anything
that a more complex machine can (but not always efficiently).

Michael Kellett