Deoxt

[Ralph Mowery]

I have not used it but just bought a spray can of Deoxit. From reading
about it, it seems to be the greatest stuff for cleaning contacts.

I have an old Tectronix Scope 465B that one chanel has a flakey input
switch. The manual says only to use isopropal alcohol to clean it
with, I did that with some 99% and it helped some, but thinking of
using some of the Deoxit on the switch. Would that be ok or not.

I would hate to mess up the switches as they would be almost impossiable
to find replacements for .

 

When in doubt, put some Deoxit on a Qtip and rub the plastic body of the switch. Check it for any softening. Try to scratch it with a dental pick. Then try to scratch an untouched one.

The danger is not to the contacts. I have seen acetone and Qdope thinner (which is toluene) do some very nasty things to plastic. If Deoxit has either in it you might be much better off sticking with the alcohol. Plus, Deoxit uses a chemical known as a reducer which actually uncorrodes the metal - thus the name. I really do ot know about the properties of that stuff.

 

[Dave Platt]

I have not used it but just bought a spray can of Deoxit. From reading
about it, it seems to be the greatest stuff for cleaning contacts.

I have an old Tectronix Scope 465B that one chanel has a flakey input
switch. The manual says only to use isopropal alcohol to clean it
with, I did that with some 99% and it helped some, but thinking of
using some of the Deoxit on the switch. Would that be ok or not.

I would hate to mess up the switches as they would be almost impossiable
to find replacements for .

First recommendation would be "stick to the manufacturer's
rules". They may know something we don't.

I've read a number of comments (Hi, Jeff!) that DeOxIt is *not* a good
thing to use on gold-plated contacts. Gold plating is often somewhat
porous, and the DeOxIt can creep through the pores down to the base
metal and may actually attack it. This can cause the gold plating to
fail.

CAIG makes a different product ("ProGold") which is intended for
gold-plated contacts, and if I understand correctly, it's intended to
avoid this problem.

Your Tek's switch may actually be suffering from contact wear, rather
than contact surface contamination. If I recall properly, the
delicate contact fingers in the switch do "rub" slightly on the
contact pads when the switch is activated, and over time this can wear
away the gold plating, and the contact don't work well after that.
Cleaning (with ispropanol or anything else) isn't going to help this
situation more than very temporarily.

I haven't found a solution (so to speak ) for this sort of
problem, other than an actual repair of the switch (replace the
contact fingers) and as you note, this may not be possible due to lack
of available parts.

 

[Phil Allison]

Ralph Mowery wrote:

As stated above I have been repairing some electronics over the last 40
years as a hobby and never tried the Deoxit. As all reports seem to say
this stuff cures anything that WD 40 won't.. ( I never use WD 40 by the
way for various reasons.)

** IME, good old WD40 cures many contact problems that DeOxit will not - particularly when penetration deep into a mechanism is required.

There are many similar products too, like CRC2-26 that have the same formulation and so do exactly the same job while costing more.

What the heck do you use ?


..... Phil

It has been a while from the last time I looked in the scope, but best I
remember that while the part you turn is a rotary switch, the contacts
are actually slide switches of sorts. Then as it was mentioned it may
attack the plastic. Some cleaners do and some don't. I used to use LPS
cleaner and never found plastic that it would affect.

 

[Phil Allison]

Jeff Liebermann wrote:

I also found that I can make things worse
by mixing my own and using too much oleic acid. It will not attack
gold or silver plated contacts, so those are safe. So, if you're
using the old stuff with oleic acid, wash off the contacts with
alcohol after you've removed the black silver oxide coating.

** The dark coating that forms on silver is *silver sulphate* (aka Ag2S).

Luckily it is quite soft and wears off switch contacts in normal use so a build up may occur which can be flushed clean with products like WD40.

The idea of using oleic acid on electrical contacts worries as it must become conductive under enough voltage.


..... Phil

 

[Ralph Mowery]

In article <4fdd5d-fvu.ln1@coop.radagast.org>, dplatt@coop.radagast.org
says...

First recommendation would be "stick to the manufacturer's
rules". They may know something we don't.

I've read a number of comments (Hi, Jeff!) that DeOxIt is *not* a good
thing to use on gold-plated contacts. Gold plating is often somewhat
porous, and the DeOxIt can creep through the pores down to the base
metal and may actually attack it. This can cause the gold plating to
fail.

CAIG makes a different product ("ProGold") which is intended for
gold-plated contacts, and if I understand correctly, it's intended to
avoid this problem.

Your Tek's switch may actually be suffering from contact wear, rather
than contact surface contamination. If I recall properly, the
delicate contact fingers in the switch do "rub" slightly on the
contact pads when the switch is activated, and over time this can wear
away the gold plating, and the contact don't work well after that.
Cleaning (with ispropanol or anything else) isn't going to help this
situation more than very temporarily.

I haven't found a solution (so to speak ) for this sort of
problem, other than an actual repair of the switch (replace the
contact fingers) and as you note, this may not be possible due to lack
of available parts.

Usually it is best to stay with what the manufacturer recommends, but in
this case the Deoxit was probably thought of years after the scope was
made.

Thanks for the advice of the Deoxit Gold. Maybe I will try that at some
point instead of the kind I have.

As stated above I have been repairing some electronics over the last 40
years as a hobby and never tried the Deoxit. As all reports seem to say
this stuff cures anything that WD 40 won't.. ( I never use WD 40 by the
way for various reasons.)

It has been a while from the last time I looked in the scope, but best I
remember that while the part you turn is a rotary switch, the contacts
are actually slide switches of sorts. Then as it was mentioned it may
attack the plastic. Some cleaners do and some don't. I used to use LPS
cleaner and never found plastic that it would affect.

 

[Jeff Liebermann]

On Mon, 11 Jul 2016 13:51:16 -0700, dplatt@coop.radagast.org (Dave
Platt) wrote:

I've read a number of comments (Hi, Jeff!) that DeOxIt is *not* a good
thing to use on gold-plated contacts.

That wasn't me. The problem is that Caig has juggled the formulation
for Deoxit and/or Cramolin has changed over the years. My main
problem with the old stuff was that it uses oleic acid. Nothing wrong
with that since it's the acid that removes the oxides from the
contacts. The problem is that it will also attack copper if left on
the contacts for too long. I also found that I can make things worse
by mixing my own and using too much oleic acid. It will not attack
gold or silver plated contacts, so those are safe. So, if you're
using the old stuff with oleic acid, wash off the contacts with
alcohol after you've removed the black silver oxide coating.

Gold does not oxidize so using an oxide remover on gold contacts is a
total waste of time. At worst, gold contacts will have a layer of tar
produced by the last attempt to lubricate the contacts.

The rest of the formulation is some form of naphtha. Lots of things
contain various forms and mixes of naphtha. Usually, lighter fluid is
mentioned, but that might be to volatile. I use Coleman camp fuel,
which works well enough. Or, just buy the pure stuff:
<https://www.google.com/#q=naphtha&tbm=shop>
They all work.

Now, for the switches... Think about what you're trying to
accomplish. You're trying to remove a layer of some kind of oxide
from the contacts. You're also trying to remove any tar left over
from the previous attempt to lube the contacts. Any mild acid and
organic solvent will do that. You don't need anything super strong.
If you want something with some lubricant added, use contact cleaner,
or maybe mix in your favorite oil. Just make sure it doesn't turn
into a sticky tar when it evaporates.

Summary:
- If it's gold contacts, use alcohol because there's no oxides.
- If it's silver contacts, use contact cleaner, Deoxit, Cramolin, or
whatever removes the black silver oxide from the contacts. Then wash
it off with alcohol and leave it alone.
- I'm not a big fan of grease and oil as a contact lubricant.

--
Jeff Liebermann jeffl@cruzio.com
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

 

[Ralph Mowery]

In article <f0d57e1f-3bb5-4750-8010-ba75c696de20@googlegroups.com>,
pallison49@gmail.com says...

** IME, good old WD40 cures many contact problems that DeOxit will not - particularly when penetration deep into a mechanism is required.

There are many similar products too, like CRC2-26 that have the same formulation and so do exactly the same job while costing more.

What the heck do you use ?


.... Phil

Depends on what I am doing. Where many would use WD40 as a cleaner, I
use Kroil as a penetrating type of oil and a few other usages.

For some cleaning of the grease off large pieces of metal
I use Ed's Red.

 

[Phil Allison]

"Nutcase Kook " wrote:

Doesn't WD40 attack certain plastic,

** More paranoid drivel from the resident looney.

Yawwnnnnnnnnnnnn......


FYI:

None of the plastics used for switches, pots or connectors in electronics is affected by using WD40 - even when soaked in the liquid.

In any case, the volatile part evaporates in a short time leaving behind only a thin mineral oil residue.



..... Phil

 

[N_Cook]

On 12/07/2016 04:40, Ralph Mowery wrote:

In article <f0d57e1f-3bb5-4750-8010-ba75c696de20@googlegroups.com>,
pallison49@gmail.com says...




** IME, good old WD40 cures many contact problems that DeOxit will not - particularly when penetration deep into a mechanism is required.

There are many similar products too, like CRC2-26 that have the same formulation and so do exactly the same job while costing more.

What the heck do you use ?


.... Phil


Depends on what I am doing. Where many would use WD40 as a cleaner, I
use Kroil as a penetrating type of oil and a few other usages.

For some cleaning of the grease off large pieces of metal
I use Ed's Red.

Doesn't WD40 attack certain plastic, and unless you know what plastic is
in a switch, try on a scrapper example first

 

[Wond]

On Mon, 11 Jul 2016 19:35:29 -0700, Phil Allison wrote:

Ralph Mowery wrote:



As stated above I have been repairing some electronics over the last 40
years as a hobby and never tried the Deoxit. As all reports seem to
say this stuff cures anything that WD 40 won't.. ( I never use WD 40
by the way for various reasons.)


** IME, good old WD40 cures many contact problems that DeOxit will not
- particularly when penetration deep into a mechanism is required.

There are many similar products too, like CRC2-26 that have the same
formulation and so do exactly the same job while costing more.

What the heck do you use ?


.... Phil

My favourite is Nu-Trol from MG Chemicals.

 

[pfjw@aol.com]

On Tuesday, July 12, 2016 at 12:44:28 PM UTC-4, Ralph Mowery wrote:

The Deoxit I bought a few days ago must not contain any of the oleic
acid. Not mentioned on the can. This is Deoxit D5. The can says it
protects surfaces so doubt this is a copper eating compound.

When I was working overseas in a country where all products were required to have all contents listed in clear terms, Cramolin Red had a paper label on it that stated: Ingredients: Oleic Acid 5% Petroleum hydrocarbons and propellants 95%. It also cost only about $4 for a 300 ml. spray can. Oleic acid has been around the metals cleaning, clock-making and fine machinery industries for well over 100 years and has been used primarily as a degreaser and oxide remover, primarily for those metals containing copper, tin or zinc.. Covers much of what we do here.

In the US, Caig once had a relationship with Cramolin - selling Cramolin's products packaged for US markets. That relationship failed. And - the story behind the Caig Company, DeOxit, Cramolin and Cramolin Red is fascinating and does not reflect well on Caig.

I will not use Caig's products. Full Stop.

Peter Wieck
Melrose Park, PA

 

[Phil Hobbs]

On 07/12/2016 04:12 AM, N_Cook wrote:

On 12/07/2016 04:40, Ralph Mowery wrote:
In article <f0d57e1f-3bb5-4750-8010-ba75c696de20@googlegroups.com>,
pallison49@gmail.com says...




** IME, good old WD40 cures many contact problems that DeOxit will
not - particularly when penetration deep into a mechanism is required.

There are many similar products too, like CRC2-26 that have the same
formulation and so do exactly the same job while costing more.

What the heck do you use ?


.... Phil


Depends on what I am doing. Where many would use WD40 as a cleaner, I
use Kroil as a penetrating type of oil and a few other usages.

For some cleaning of the grease off large pieces of metal
I use Ed's Red.



Doesn't WD40 attack certain plastic, and unless you know what plastic is
in a switch, try on a scrapper example first

Especially since the switches later Tek portable scopes have plastic
parts that fail often. Dunno if the 465 has them or not, but the 485 does.

Cheers

Phil Hobbs

--
Dr Philip C D Hobbs
Principal Consultant
ElectroOptical Innovations LLC
Optics, Electro-optics, Photonics, Analog Electronics

160 North State Road #203
Briarcliff Manor NY 10510

hobbs at electrooptical dot net
http://electrooptical.net

 

[Jeff Liebermann]

On Mon, 11 Jul 2016 19:48:43 -0700 (PDT), Phil Allison
<pallison49@gmail.com> wrote:

Jeff Liebermann wrote:


I also found that I can make things worse
by mixing my own and using too much oleic acid. It will not attack
gold or silver plated contacts, so those are safe. So, if you're
using the old stuff with oleic acid, wash off the contacts with
alcohol after you've removed the black silver oxide coating.

** The dark coating that forms on silver is *silver sulphate* (aka Ag2S).

I stand half way corrected. Y'er right. Most of the tarnish is
silver sulphide.
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Silver_sulfide>
"This dense black solid constitutes the tarnish that
forms over time on silverware and other silver objects."
Also, silver oxide is also dark colored:
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Silver_oxide>
"Tarnish" is a mixture of silver oxide and silver sulphide, in
proportions that vary with whatever is causing the silver to tarnish.
Silver sulphide tarnishes rather quickly in the presence of sulphur
bearing compounds, while silver oxide takes months to accumulate.
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Silver_oxide>
"...silver needs hydrogen sulfide to tarnish, although
it may tarnish with oxygen over time."

Luckily it is quite soft and wears off switch contacts in normal use
so a build up may occur which can be flushed clean with products
like WD40.

The idea of using oleic acid on electrical contacts worries as it
must become conductive under enough voltage.

What do you mean "must become conductive"? Do you mean that the oleic
acid becomes conductive, or perhaps the contact cleaner? Unlikely
because the oleic acid will attack copper and therefore must be washed
off by something after its used to clean the oxides, sulphides, crud,
dirt, tar, and oils off the contacts.

--
Jeff Liebermann jeffl@cruzio.com
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

 

[Ralph Mowery]

In article <me4aoblk09e4q0h1r6aff0sbdi451fa0jn@4ax.com>,
jeffl@cruzio.com says...

On Mon, 11 Jul 2016 19:48:43 -0700 (PDT), Phil Allison
pallison49@gmail.com> wrote:


The idea of using oleic acid on electrical contacts worries as it
must become conductive under enough voltage.

What do you mean "must become conductive"? Do you mean that the oleic
acid becomes conductive, or perhaps the contact cleaner? Unlikely
because the oleic acid will attack copper and therefore must be washed
off by something after its used to clean the oxides, sulphides, crud,
dirt, tar, and oils off the contacts.

The Deoxit I bought a few days ago must not contain any of the oleic
acid. Not mentioned on the can. This is Deoxit D5. The can says it
protects surfaces so doubt this is a copper eating compound.

The directions say to spray and activate the knobs. Then give it a
short spray and wait 2 minutes before turning the equipment on. I guess
that the wait time is to make sure any thaing that burns has evaporated.
There is no mention of cleaning it off, but really should be left on the
contacts from the way I read it.

 

The MSDS should list all of the chemical ingredients. Check there.

 

[Jeff Liebermann]

On Tue, 12 Jul 2016 10:45:58 -0700 (PDT), "pfjw@aol.com"
<pfjw@aol.com> wrote:

In the US, Caig once had a relationship with Cramolin - selling
Cramolin's products packaged for US markets. That relationship
failed. And - the story behind the Caig Company, DeOxit,
Cramolin and Cramolin Red is fascinating and does not reflect
well on Caig.

I will not use Caig's products. Full Stop.

Peter Wieck
Melrose Park, PA

Here's part of the story:
<http://www.pitt.edu/~szekeres/caigcram.htm>
I'm not sure if the story allegedly from Mr Graham, prez of Caig rings
totally true. The "hazardous material" story seems to be a cover for
a financial arrangement that went awry.

I still have a small bottle of Deoxit R-100L. Over about 20 years,
I've only used half the bottle, mostly because I dispensed it by the
drop with a syringe. Q-tips and sprays are wasteful. However, for my
day to day stuff, I mix my own secret formula cleaner. It's secret
because I never mix the stuff accurately or twice the same way. I
also can't recall exactly what I tossed into the stew last. I think
it's mostly naphtha (Coleman lantern fuel), a little oleic acid, and
some automobile engine oil phosphorescent dye so I can see where I
slopped the stuff with a UV light. Or, maybe it was some solvent red
26 dye. Ask me again in about 5 years when I'm scheduled to run out
and need to mix another batch.



--
Jeff Liebermann jeffl@cruzio.com
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

 

[Jeff Liebermann]

On Tue, 12 Jul 2016 12:44:20 -0400, Ralph Mowery
<rmowery28146@earthlink.net> wrote:

The Deoxit I bought a few days ago must not contain any of the oleic
acid.

It probably doesn't.

Not mentioned on the can. This is Deoxit D5. The can says it
protects surfaces so doubt this is a copper eating compound.

The problem here is the MSDS only lists ingredients that are deemed
hazardous. Oleic acid is food safe and might not be listed.
If you look on the can somewhere, you might find the product number.
Then look it up here to see what's inside:
<http://store.caig.com/s.nl/sc.18/category.291/.f>
Don't be surprised if it says "proprietary ingredient" or something
similar. The SDS sheet is nearly useless.

Taking a wild guess, I blundered upon:
<http://store.caig.com/core/media/media.nl?id=1902&c=ACCT113328&h=669fee694d58ba7465c0&whence=>
which offers:
PETROLEUM NAPHTHA 75%
DIFLUOROETHANE 20%
DeoxITŽ D100L TRADE SECRET 5%
Oh well. That's probably the Deoxit product that Caig was reselling
back in the 1980's.

The directions say to spray and activate the knobs. Then give it a
short spray and wait 2 minutes before turning the equipment on. I guess
that the wait time is to make sure any thaing that burns has evaporated.
There is no mention of cleaning it off, but really should be left on the
contacts from the way I read it.

Find a piece of copper. Drip on some Deoxit. See if there's any
green colored corrosion. You may need a microscope to see it.

--
Jeff Liebermann jeffl@cruzio.com
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

 

[whit3rd]

On Tuesday, July 12, 2016 at 10:46:02 AM UTC-7, pf...@aol.com wrote:

On Tuesday, July 12, 2016 at 12:44:28 PM UTC-4, Ralph Mowery wrote:

The Deoxit I bought a few days ago must not contain any of the oleic
acid. Not mentioned on the can. This is Deoxit D5. The can says it
protects surfaces so doubt this is a copper eating compound.


When I was working overseas in a country where all products were required to have all contents listed in clear terms, Cramolin Red had a paper label on it that stated: Ingredients: Oleic Acid 5% Petroleum hydrocarbons and propellants 95%.

The red was a CLEANER, was labeled as a rinse-off-after product. The contact enhancer
was the blue, apply-and-forget. The enhancer works well, but the patent has expired, so Caig literature is rather obscure on the ingredient labels. DeOxit Shield S has NATO stock number
NSN 6850-00-450-5821, and hasn't changed since that number was issued... 47 years ago?

 

This is one of those things for which there is no easy answer. But I'll bring up something here :

Slick 50.

For those overseas or simply not into cars, Slick 50 was an oil additive for higher mileage cars that improved performance ad extended the life of the engine. It was effective, in fact orders of magnitude more effective than anything that was on the market.

Its effects were measurable, more compression and power. Easier starting. Sometimes people claimed it made it run cooler but I don't personally know of that ad don't really see how unless the oil pressure was so low before it was about to blow anyway.

The secret to Slick 50's success was PTFE resin, which is a for of Teflon actually. When put int the crankcase it coated and impregnated yous bearing surfaces, valve guides, piston rings and of course the gears in the oil pump.

The had a pretty good run with their patent, I don't remember how many years. During that time they had PTFE resin locked up and nobody else could sell it. They charged like fifty bucks a quart for it. And people swore by it, they were happy to pay that because the shit simply is that good.

The patent ran out eventually and others came out with PTFE resin based engine treatments. Some people stuck with the original and even though they did the price went down. They no longer had a lock on the market.

When it comes to Deoxit, people make the mistake of thinking it is removig the oxidation. It is not. The active ingredient actually removes the oxidant (usually oxygen) from the metal. A chemist calls this type of chemical a reducer. They come in many forms, but for this application you need one that is totally non conductive, or at least becomes that way, and that is safe for plastics.

There are pots, sliders specifically, I have noticed on equalizers that you just can't use anything on. Some parts of them are that cheap white almost translucent plastic, I don't know if it is a type of nylon or styrene or what, but ANYTHING makes them sticky. And I mean anything. I tried TF based cleaner (back when you could get it), LPS2, WD40 and who knows what else. I am starting to think the propellant in the can is what attacks the stuff.

O late, I am having a problem with rotary encoders. Clean it and a few days later it is again operating erratically. I looked for them online and they seem to be like $20+, and not even optical. I can tell on the scope, when the pulse drops to zero it really is zero.

But we'll burn that bridge when we come to it. All of the units need a factory modification before they can be shipped or they are all going to fry. I have to burn that bridge first. At what I make now, I'll get around to it when I damn well please.

Trade secrets are bad enough in this field. So what I am getting is that this stuff is so secret that they won't even patent it ? If they patented it you can get the formula.

The REAL problem is when they apply it to foods. Realize that in this country they do not tell you they put a virus in milk that attacks the bacteria that makes it go sour. Extends the shelf life. I know there is zero evidence of this on the net but you can prove it yourself. Just leave some milk out of the fridge and let it go bad. It no longer goes sour, it goes bitter.

And these milk companies in all their good hearts tried to gewt milk reclassified as a soft drink so they could add aspartame WITHOUT LABELING IT. They can already add anything they want but they have to label it. they wanted to sneak that shit into your kids without you knowing it. For what reason ? Best I can figure is to give them a sweet tooth sell more sweetener later..

And then there was a push to make it illegal to label food as "NON-GMO", their case ? That it would hurt the sales of GMO foods. And don't give me this "they are safe" shit, you cannot possibly know that. What's more, since there is more yield per acre this garbage is almost completely devoid of nutrients.

Trade secrets. This is not an easy issue because if you force complete disclosure that removes alot of the incentive. You might be able to enforce intellectual property rights here, but there is nothing stopping someone in China from copying the product and even if they can't sell it here, they can cost you the (rest of the) world market.

Maybe there is no answer and it will be a point of contention until we are extinct.