DC potentiometer

J

Joe Schmucker

Guest
Easy question from a really dumb noob.

I have a 9volt DC motor that draws 500 ma current. Is there a simple
potentiometer I can put on this motor to control the speed? It is on
a wire fed welder that is either ON or OFF. I want to control the
speed of the feed motor.

Appreciate any advice. If you slam me for being a dorkus, I will take
it. I'm not too thin skinned. :)

Joe
 
On Sun, 4 Mar 2012 16:48:51 -0800 (PST), Joe Schmucker
<wingloader@gmail.com> wrote:

Easy question from a really dumb noob.

I have a 9volt DC motor that draws 500 ma current. Is there a simple
potentiometer I can put on this motor to control the speed? It is on
a wire fed welder that is either ON or OFF. I want to control the
speed of the feed motor.

Appreciate any advice. If you slam me for being a dorkus, I will take
it. I'm not too thin skinned. :)

Joe
If you just use a potentiometer the torque will drop fast and the
Click to expand...
speed regulation will be poor. You can buy kits that will control the
speed with PWM which will retain the torque and fairly good speed
regulation at lower than full speed. See the links:
http://www.canakit.com/5a-motor-speed-controller-pwm.html
http://www.electronickits.com/kit/complete/motor/ck1400.htm
This one is already assembled:
http://store.qkits.com/moreinfo.cfm/MXa066
The one at the bottom of this page is only ten bucks:
http://www.quickar.com/tkit.php
Since the welding wire experiences the same friction (pretty much)
over the speeds you will be using the motor needs to be able to
produce the same torque at lower speeds. If the speed regulation of
the wire is poor then you will have all sorts of trouble welding.
Eric
 
"Joe Schmucker"
I have a 9volt DC motor that draws 500 ma current. Is there a simple
potentiometer I can put on this motor to control the speed? It is on
a wire fed welder that is either ON or OFF. I want to control the
speed of the feed motor.
Click to expand...

** A * wire wound * pot of about 25 ohms and 5 watts rating should do the
trick.

Just wire one end to the DC supply and the wiper to the motor.



..... Phil
 
On Sun, 4 Mar 2012 16:48:51 -0800 (PST), Joe Schmucker
<wingloader@gmail.com> wrote:

Easy question from a really dumb noob.

I have a 9volt DC motor that draws 500 ma current. Is there a simple
potentiometer I can put on this motor to control the speed? It is on
a wire fed welder that is either ON or OFF. I want to control the
speed of the feed motor.

Appreciate any advice. If you slam me for being a dorkus, I will take
it. I'm not too thin skinned. :)

Joe
You already received answers but just a comment. I don't think I have
Click to expand...
seen a wire fed welder where the wire feed rate was not controllable.
What brand and model is your welder?
Tom
 
"Joe Schmucker" <wingloader@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:60b3de1f-bb0b-4091-9f6e-afdb3a7b8c6a@eb6g2000vbb.googlegroups.com...
Easy question from a really dumb noob.

I have a 9volt DC motor that draws 500 ma current. Is there a simple
potentiometer I can put on this motor to control the speed? It is on
a wire fed welder that is either ON or OFF. I want to control the
speed of the feed motor.

Appreciate any advice. If you slam me for being a dorkus, I will take
it. I'm not too thin skinned. :)

Joe
Click to expand...
You want something like this
http://www.ebay.com/itm/PWM-DC-Converter-9V-28V-Micro-DC-Motor-Speed-Controller-Adjuster-DC-Motor-Driver-/320860004870?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item4ab4bf2206

Or, go to your local electrical equipment supply, they might have something
similar

Or ask them if they know someone who could assemble one of these circuits
for you
http://www.discovercircuits.com/DJ-Circuits/simplepwm2.htm

http://pcbheaven.com/circuitpages/PWM_Fan_controller_using_a_555/

http://www.solorb.com/elect/pwm/pwm2/index.html
 
On 2012-03-05, Joe Schmucker <wingloader@gmail.com> wrote:
Easy question from a really dumb noob.

I have a 9volt DC motor that draws 500 ma current.
Click to expand...
4.5W

Is there a simple potentiometer I can put on this
motor to control the speed?
Click to expand...
to control the speed of simple DC motors you need to
control the voltage they get,

It is on a wire fed welder that is either ON or OFF. I want
to control the speed of the feed motor.
Click to expand...
you can probably buy a feed speed controller from the welding supply
place, but its probably cheeper to build one.

if you put a resistor (which is basically what a rheostat is)
in series with the motor it will mainly reduce the torque,
the result will be more feed jams.

you need to use some sort of voltage control, pussible with a surge on
start up to overcome static friction.

--
⚂⚃ 100% natural
 
On 3/4/2012 7:22 PM, etpm@whidbey.com wrote:
On Sun, 4 Mar 2012 16:48:51 -0800 (PST), Joe Schmucker
wingloader@gmail.com> wrote:

Easy question from a really dumb noob.

I have a 9volt DC motor that draws 500 ma current. Is there a simple
potentiometer I can put on this motor to control the speed? It is on
a wire fed welder that is either ON or OFF. I want to control the
speed of the feed motor.

Appreciate any advice. If you slam me for being a dorkus, I will take
it. I'm not too thin skinned. :)

Joe
If you just use a potentiometer the torque will drop fast and the
speed regulation will be poor. You can buy kits that will control the
speed with PWM which will retain the torque and fairly good speed
regulation at lower than full speed. See the links:
http://www.canakit.com/5a-motor-speed-controller-pwm.html
http://www.electronickits.com/kit/complete/motor/ck1400.htm
This one is already assembled:
http://store.qkits.com/moreinfo.cfm/MXa066
The one at the bottom of this page is only ten bucks:

http://www.quickar.com/tkit.php
The quickar webpage is terrible to look at and
Click to expand...
even worse to read.
Good example of how note to design a webpage.
Mikek
 
On Sun, 04 Mar 2012 23:22:52 -0500, Tom Biasi <tombiasi@optonline.net>
wrote:

On Sun, 4 Mar 2012 16:48:51 -0800 (PST), Joe Schmucker
wingloader@gmail.com> wrote:

Easy question from a really dumb noob.

I have a 9volt DC motor that draws 500 ma current. Is there a simple
potentiometer I can put on this motor to control the speed? It is on
a wire fed welder that is either ON or OFF. I want to control the
speed of the feed motor.

Appreciate any advice. If you slam me for being a dorkus, I will take
it. I'm not too thin skinned. :)

Joe
You already received answers but just a comment. I don't think I have
seen a wire fed welder where the wire feed rate was not controllable.
What brand and model is your welder?
Tom
A friend of mine bought a cheap welder at a garage sale that has only
Click to expand...
3 settings for the voltage and no settings for the wire speed. I
assume the welder adjustst the wire speed according to voltage
setting. No matter how it works the welder is a piece of junk and it
is hard to get good welds with it. Instead of adjusting the welder to
the material you have to change material thickness to suit the welder.
Eric
 
On Mon, 05 Mar 2012 08:06:42 -0800, etpm@whidbey.com wrote:

On Sun, 04 Mar 2012 23:22:52 -0500, Tom Biasi <tombiasi@optonline.net
wrote:

On Sun, 4 Mar 2012 16:48:51 -0800 (PST), Joe Schmucker
wingloader@gmail.com> wrote:

Easy question from a really dumb noob.

I have a 9volt DC motor that draws 500 ma current. Is there a simple
potentiometer I can put on this motor to control the speed? It is on
a wire fed welder that is either ON or OFF. I want to control the
speed of the feed motor.

Appreciate any advice. If you slam me for being a dorkus, I will take
it. I'm not too thin skinned. :)

Joe
You already received answers but just a comment. I don't think I have
seen a wire fed welder where the wire feed rate was not controllable.
What brand and model is your welder?
Tom
A friend of mine bought a cheap welder at a garage sale that has only
3 settings for the voltage and no settings for the wire speed. I
assume the welder adjustst the wire speed according to voltage
setting. No matter how it works the welder is a piece of junk and it
is hard to get good welds with it. Instead of adjusting the welder to
the material you have to change material thickness to suit the welder.
Eric
Click to expand...
OK, doesn't sound like it's worth messing with.
If you can get some fun out of it by all means play with it.
Tom
 
Joe Schmucker wrote:

Easy question from a really dumb noob.

I have a 9volt DC motor that draws 500 ma current. Is there a simple
potentiometer I can put on this motor to control the speed? It is on
a wire fed welder that is either ON or OFF. I want to control the
speed of the feed motor.

Appreciate any advice. If you slam me for being a dorkus, I will take
it. I'm not too thin skinned. :)

Joe
Click to expand...





Welder DC Power for Motor (+) polarity.

-o _/o-------+----------------+
/ | |
| |
| |
+ 100 +
.-. ___ |/
| |<-- -|___|- -| NPN power Transistor
10K POT | | |>
'-' |
+ +---+---------+
| .--+---. |
| | | |
| | Motor| |
| | | z 12V zener
| | | A
+ '---+--' |
GND | |
+--------+
===
GND
(created by AACircuit v1.28.6 beta 04/19/05 www.tech-chat.de)

heat sink mount the transistor and pay attention because the tab is
connected to the center leg on most. That is, when using a TO-220 type
package part.
These things can be gotten from radio shaft if you want to pay the price.

Jamie
 
Jamie wrote:
Joe Schmucker wrote:

Easy question from a really dumb noob.

I have a 9volt DC motor that draws 500 ma current. Is there a simple
potentiometer I can put on this motor to control the speed? It is on
a wire fed welder that is either ON or OFF. I want to control the
speed of the feed motor.

Appreciate any advice. If you slam me for being a dorkus, I will take
it. I'm not too thin skinned. :)

Joe

Welder DC Power for Motor (+) polarity.

-o _/o-------+----------------+
/ | |
| |
| |
+ 100 +
.-. ___ |/
| |<-- -|___|- -| NPN power Transistor
10K POT | | |
'-' |
+ +---+---------+
| .--+---. |
| | | |
| | Motor| |
| | | z 12V zener
| | | A
+ '---+--' |
GND | |
+--------+
===
GND
(created by AACircuit v1.28.6 beta 04/19/05 www.tech-chat.de)

heat sink mount the transistor and pay attention because the tab is
connected to the center leg on most. That is, when using a TO-220 type
package part.
These things can be gotten from radio shaft if you want to pay the price.
Click to expand...

What a crap circuit. The pot isn't intended for this application,
and the low grade radio shack pots will fail in a hurry.
Jamie
Click to expand...

--
You can't have a sense of humor, if you have no sense.
 
"Michael A. Terrell" <mike.terrell@earthlink.net> wrote in
news:-sidncPzUPfLMcjSnZ2dnUVZ_rednZ2d@earthlink.com:

Jamie wrote:

Joe Schmucker wrote:

Easy question from a really dumb noob.

I have a 9volt DC motor that draws 500 ma current. Is there a
simple potentiometer I can put on this motor to control the speed?
It is on a wire fed welder that is either ON or OFF. I want to
control the speed of the feed motor.

Appreciate any advice. If you slam me for being a dorkus, I will
take it. I'm not too thin skinned. :)

Joe

Welder DC Power for Motor (+) polarity.

-o _/o-------+----------------+
/ | |
| |
| |
+ 100 +
.-. ___ |/
| |<-- -|___|- -| NPN power Transistor
10K POT | | |
'-' |
+ +---+---------+
| .--+---. |
| | | |
| | Motor| |
| | | z 12V zener
| | | A
+ '---+--' |
GND | |
+--------+
===
GND
(created by AACircuit v1.28.6 beta 04/19/05 www.tech-chat.de)

heat sink mount the transistor and pay attention because the tab is
connected to the center leg on most. That is, when using a TO-220
type package part.
These things can be gotten from radio shaft if you want to pay the
price.


What a crap circuit. The pot isn't intended for this application,
and the low grade radio shack pots will fail in a hurry.

Jamie
Click to expand...
And what is that stupid zener doing there?
I would have used a darlington schematics in this case.
Two transistors would remove all the load from the potentiometer,
also allowing a wide range of potentiometer values.
Its what I used to control a batch of 12 volt ventilators
in an istrumentation package.
 
On Mar 6, 11:13 am, Sjouke Burry <s@b> wrote:
"Michael A. Terrell" <mike.terr...@earthlink.net> wrote innews:-sidncPzUPfLMcjSnZ2dnUVZ_rednZ2d@earthlink.com:







Jamie wrote:

Joe Schmucker wrote:

Easy question from a really dumb noob.

I have a 9volt DC motor that draws 500 ma current.  Is there a
simple potentiometer I can put on this motor to control the speed?
It is on a wire fed welder that is either ON or OFF.  I want to
control the speed of the feed motor.

Appreciate any advice.  If you slam me for being a dorkus, I will
take it.  I'm not too thin skinned.  :)

Joe

  Welder DC Power for Motor (+) polarity.

   -o _/o-------+----------------+
     /          |                |
                |                |
                |                |
                +      100       +
               .-.      ___    |/
               | |<-- -|___|- -|   NPN power Transistor
       10K POT | |             |
               '-'               |
                +                +---+---------+
                |                 .--+---.     |
                |                 |      |     |
                |                 | Motor|     |
                |                 |      |     z 12V zener
                |                 |      |     A
                +                 '---+--'     |
               GND                    |        |
                                      +--------+
                                     ==> >>                                      GND
(created by AACircuit v1.28.6 beta 04/19/05www.tech-chat.de)

heat sink mount the transistor and pay attention because the tab is
connected to the center leg on most. That is, when using a TO-220
type package part.
   These things can be gotten from radio shaft if you want to pay the
   price.

   What a crap circuit.  The pot isn't intended for this application,
and  the low grade radio shack pots will fail in a hurry.

Jamie
Click to expand...
I didn't think the circuit was that bad. (But then I do some pretty
silly circuits.)

And what is that stupid zener doing there?
Click to expand...
I thought maybe to protect the transistor? (stop it from reverse
voltage zenering)
But I don't know motors can they send some EMF back the other way?

George H.

I would have used a darlington schematics in this case.
Two transistors would remove all the load from the potentiometer,
also allowing a wide range of potentiometer values.
Its what I used to control a batch of 12 volt ventilators
in an istrumentation package.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -
Click to expand...
 
On Tue, 6 Mar 2012 10:51:58 -0800 (PST), George Herold
<gherold@teachspin.com> wrote:


   What a crap circuit.  The pot isn't intended for this application,
and  the low grade radio shack pots will fail in a hurry.

Jamie


I didn't think the circuit was that bad. (But then I do some pretty
silly circuits.)

And what is that stupid zener doing there?

I thought maybe to protect the transistor? (stop it from reverse
voltage zenering)
But I don't know motors can they send some EMF back the other way?

George H.

I would have used a darlington schematics in this case.
Two transistors would remove all the load from the potentiometer,
also allowing a wide range of potentiometer values.
Its what I used to control a batch of 12 volt ventilators
in an istrumentation package.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -
Click to expand...
George,
This is a basic group.
The circuit you presented shows some understanding of the problem and
a way to address it.
It's not the best way to solve this but there was a time when someone
would show you how to make it better without resorting to name calling
and insults.
Check into Darlington's, power MOSFET's, and PWM and see if you can
find a better circuit.

Best Regards,
Tom
 
Tom Biasi wrote:
On Tue, 6 Mar 2012 10:51:58 -0800 (PST), George Herold
gherold@teachspin.com> wrote:



What a crap circuit. The pot isn't intended for this application,
and the low grade radio shack pots will fail in a hurry.

Jamie

I didn't think the circuit was that bad. (But then I do some pretty
silly circuits.)


And what is that stupid zener doing there?

I thought maybe to protect the transistor? (stop it from reverse
voltage zenering)
But I don't know motors can they send some EMF back the other way?

George H.


I would have used a darlington schematics in this case.
Two transistors would remove all the load from the potentiometer,
also allowing a wide range of potentiometer values.
Its what I used to control a batch of 12 volt ventilators
in an istrumentation package.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -


George,
This is a basic group.
The circuit you presented shows some understanding of the problem and
a way to address it.
It's not the best way to solve this but there was a time when someone
would show you how to make it better without resorting to name calling
and insults.
Check into Darlington's, power MOSFET's, and PWM and see if you can
find a better circuit.

Best Regards,
Tom
Well, I was the one posting the original circuit and yes, it was meant
Click to expand...
to be simple to understand. :)

I may have made an error on the bias current because I thought the
motor load was spec'd as 500ma., it could have been 5000ma :) in any
case the idea was 500ma in mind and that very simple circuit would do it
just fine..
The zener is there to suppress EMF so not to destroy the emitter in
the transistor.. The motor in that application only goes one way..

The request was for a simple circuit, that is what they got and I am
sure if 500 ma was the spec, that will work just fine..

I think some just react to soon and take it over the top.


Jamie
 
Sjouke Burry wrote:

"Michael A. Terrell" <mike.terrell@earthlink.net> wrote in
news:-sidncPzUPfLMcjSnZ2dnUVZ_rednZ2d@earthlink.com:


Jamie wrote:

Joe Schmucker wrote:


Easy question from a really dumb noob.

I have a 9volt DC motor that draws 500 ma current. Is there a
simple potentiometer I can put on this motor to control the speed?
It is on a wire fed welder that is either ON or OFF. I want to
control the speed of the feed motor.

Appreciate any advice. If you slam me for being a dorkus, I will
take it. I'm not too thin skinned. :)

Joe

Welder DC Power for Motor (+) polarity.

-o _/o-------+----------------+
/ | |
| |
| |
+ 100 +
.-. ___ |/
| |<-- -|___|- -| NPN power Transistor
10K POT | | |
'-' |
+ +---+---------+
| .--+---. |
| | | |
| | Motor| |
| | | z 12V zener
| | | A
+ '---+--' |
GND | |
+--------+
===
GND
(created by AACircuit v1.28.6 beta 04/19/05 www.tech-chat.de)

heat sink mount the transistor and pay attention because the tab is
connected to the center leg on most. That is, when using a TO-220
type package part.
These things can be gotten from radio shaft if you want to pay the
price.


What a crap circuit. The pot isn't intended for this application,
and the low grade radio shack pots will fail in a hurry.

Jamie



And what is that stupid zener doing there?
I would have used a darlington schematics in this case.
Two transistors would remove all the load from the potentiometer,
also allowing a wide range of potentiometer values.
Its what I used to control a batch of 12 volt ventilators
in an istrumentation package.
Click to expand...
Really, lets see, a 500 ma load translates roughly to ~150 ma at best
for most basic transistors at the base.

Most pots are 2 Watts. this current here is ~ 1.3 watts.

I really don't see the issue here. Over complicating something just
does not make good economic sense.

Jamie
 
Tom
Well, I was the one posting the original circuit and yes, it was meant
to be simple to understand. :)

I may have made an error on the bias current because I thought the
motor load was spec'd as 500ma., it could have been 5000ma :) in any
case the idea was 500ma in mind and that very simple circuit would do it
just fine..
The zener is there to suppress EMF so not to destroy the emitter in
the transistor.. The motor in that application only goes one way..

The request was for a simple circuit, that is what they got and I am
sure if 500 ma was the spec, that will work just fine..

I think some just react to soon and take it over the top.


Jamie
Click to expand...

Sorry Jamie,
I talked to George because I was responding to his comment. I should
have addressed you.
Most of us know that you are a beginner trying to learn and will not
hesitate to ask questions.
I just don't like rude responses when they are not warranted.
I think there are many here that will help you and not rip you a new
one when you make a mistake.
Just keep doing what you are doing.

Tom
 
Philbrook the Fuckwit radio ham


-o _/o-------+----------------+
/ | |
| |
| |
+ 100 +
.-. ___ |/
| |<-- -|___|- -| NPN power Transistor
10K POT | | |
'-' |
+ +---+---------+
| .--+---. |
| | | |
| | Motor| |
| | | z 12V zener
| | | A
+ '---+--' |
GND | |
+--------+


Really, lets see, a 500 ma load translates roughly to ~150 ma at best
for most basic transistors at the base.
Click to expand...

** Absolute bollocks.

Any power transistor worth the title has a beta of over 50.


Most pots are 2 Watts.
Click to expand...
** Absolute bollocks.



I really don't see the issue here.
Click to expand...

** The circuit is fucked - it cannot possibly work.

Replace the 10k pot with a 500 ohm one and it might just be OK.




..... Phil
 
Jamie wrote:
Tom Biasi wrote:

Tom

Well, I was the one posting the original circuit and yes, it was meant
to be simple to understand. :)

I may have made an error on the bias current because I thought the
motor load was spec'd as 500ma., it could have been 5000ma :) in any
case the idea was 500ma in mind and that very simple circuit would do it
just fine..
The zener is there to suppress EMF so not to destroy the emitter in
the transistor.. The motor in that application only goes one way..

The request was for a simple circuit, that is what they got and I am
sure if 500 ma was the spec, that will work just fine..

I think some just react to soon and take it over the top.


Jamie



Sorry Jamie,
I talked to George because I was responding to his comment. I should
have addressed you.
Most of us know that you are a beginner trying to learn and will not
hesitate to ask questions.
I just don't like rude responses when they are not warranted.
I think there are many here that will help you and not rip you a new
one when you make a mistake.
Just keep doing what you are doing.

Tom
Excuse me?

A beginner?

How fucking absurd you sound...

It's obvious you sir, don't know me. what fucking place full of
clucking chickens, and you're one of them..

If you only knew what I design and work with, you'd have a totally
different view, but you don't which makes you no authority on me.

If I were the beginner as you say, then I wouldn't need a $10k Locroy
scope, a 45k Spectrum analyzer and whole lieu of other expensive toys at
my disposal and use very often. I guess that would make my employer
very incompetent, wouldn't it?

Believe what you want, I am not the beginner you say I am.. That was
a very rude and miss guided remark on your part.

I think 45 years in the field earns me the right to say so, and to
say that you have absolutely no grounds to say otherwise, except maybe,
following the advise that would rather lead you dry, because they really
don't know themselves but would rather badger others that could have an
edge on them and lose their popularity in the public eye.

Beginner my ass.

Thanks for letting me know where you stand on this, pecker head. And
hope the help from others here, works out for you. I'll be smiling as I
see the bull shitters here doing their smoke and mirror tricks.

And for the final comment..

I know the circuit is basic and is not elegant but It will work.
Have you forgotten the title on the room? I could of sat here and
designed a complete PWM driver with Mosfet switch, inductor and all that
crap, but then I guess it would get complicated for the original person
that requested it.

P.S.
I can design this shit in my sleep! I started off with a slide rule
and compiling laplace tables, and doing logs, trig, Calc on paper years
ago? how about you?

Jamie
Click to expand...
But have a nice day. ;)

Cheers

Phil Hobbs
 
Tom Biasi wrote:

Tom

Well, I was the one posting the original circuit and yes, it was meant
to be simple to understand. :)

I may have made an error on the bias current because I thought the
motor load was spec'd as 500ma., it could have been 5000ma :) in any
case the idea was 500ma in mind and that very simple circuit would do it
just fine..
The zener is there to suppress EMF so not to destroy the emitter in
the transistor.. The motor in that application only goes one way..

The request was for a simple circuit, that is what they got and I am
sure if 500 ma was the spec, that will work just fine..

I think some just react to soon and take it over the top.


Jamie



Sorry Jamie,
I talked to George because I was responding to his comment. I should
have addressed you.
Most of us know that you are a beginner trying to learn and will not
hesitate to ask questions.
I just don't like rude responses when they are not warranted.
I think there are many here that will help you and not rip you a new
one when you make a mistake.
Just keep doing what you are doing.

Tom
Excuse me?
Click to expand...

A beginner?

How fucking absurd you sound...

It's obvious you sir, don't know me. what fucking place full of
clucking chickens, and you're one of them..

If you only knew what I design and work with, you'd have a totally
different view, but you don't which makes you no authority on me.

If I were the beginner as you say, then I wouldn't need a $10k Locroy
scope, a 45k Spectrum analyzer and whole lieu of other expensive toys at
my disposal and use very often. I guess that would make my employer
very incompetent, wouldn't it?

Believe what you want, I am not the beginner you say I am.. That was
a very rude and miss guided remark on your part.

I think 45 years in the field earns me the right to say so, and to
say that you have absolutely no grounds to say otherwise, except maybe,
following the advise that would rather lead you dry, because they really
don't know themselves but would rather badger others that could have an
edge on them and lose their popularity in the public eye.

Beginner my ass.

Thanks for letting me know where you stand on this, pecker head. And
hope the help from others here, works out for you. I'll be smiling as I
see the bull shitters here doing their smoke and mirror tricks.

And for the final comment..

I know the circuit is basic and is not elegant but It will work.
Have you forgotten the title on the room? I could of sat here and
designed a complete PWM driver with Mosfet switch, inductor and all that
crap, but then I guess it would get complicated for the original person
that requested it.

P.S.
I can design this shit in my sleep! I started off with a slide rule
and compiling laplace tables, and doing logs, trig, Calc on paper years
ago? how about you?

Jamie
 
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