DAC buffer with negative VOUT in shutdown state

P

Piotr Wyderski

Guest
Hi,

TL;DR: a precision linear MOSFET pre-driver capable of putting negative
voltage on the gate in order to shut the current flow down. Quickly and
hard to eliminate spurious noise-induced turn-ons.

Detailed:

I have a precision unbuffered 16-bit DAC that outputs 0--4.095V. The
analog subsystem uses +12/-5V supplies in order to place the opamps
(OPA4192)
well within the linear region. Now I would like to buffer the VDAC
voltage, but also augment the buffer with the ability to output some
negative VNEG voltage in shutdown state. The closer VNEG is to the VEE
rail the better, but the exact value is unimportant. I can see 3
possible scenarios based on a DG419 SPDT switch:

1. Create a follower and add the mux to the input, switching between
VDAC and VEE. But this can add noise/nonlinearities to the precision path.

2. As above, but put the mux at the follower's output. This would add me
~30 Ohms to the output impedance.

3. Connect the DAC directly to the +input of the opamp and put the
switch between
the output and the -input and VCC. In one position the mux would make
the opamp act as a follower, in the other the inverting input's voltage
would
be much higher than the non-inverting one, so the open loop gain would
make the output saturate somewhere close to VEE.

Other requirements and don't cares:

- the switching frequency between the DAC voltage (VDAC) and the
negative output voltage (VNEG) is negligible (<10Hz).

- the transition time between VDAC ad VNEG should be as fast as possible.

- the transition time between VNEG and VDAC is not important, but
the VOUT should have no significant overshoot above VDAC.

In other words, the slow path must be precise and the negative
VOUT path must be fast.

I'm tempted to use the solution number 3, but I'm afraid of the
open-loop connection. Or should I do it in a completely different way?

Best regards, Piotr
 
On 02/06/2019 15:21, Piotr Wyderski wrote:
Hi,

TL;DR: a precision linear MOSFET pre-driver capable of putting negative
voltage on the gate in order to shut the current flow down. Quickly and
hard to eliminate spurious noise-induced turn-ons.

Detailed:

I have a precision unbuffered 16-bit DAC that outputs 0--4.095V. The
analog subsystem uses +12/-5V supplies in order to place the opamps
(OPA4192)
well within the linear region. Now I would like to buffer the VDAC
voltage, but also augment the buffer with the ability to output some
negative VNEG voltage in shutdown state. The closer VNEG is to the VEE
rail the better, but the exact value is unimportant. I can see 3
possible scenarios based on a DG419 SPDT switch:

1. Create a follower and add the mux to the input, switching between
VDAC and VEE. But this can add noise/nonlinearities to the precision path.

2. As above, but put the mux at the follower's output. This would add me
~30 Ohms to the output impedance.

3. Connect the DAC directly to the +input of the opamp and put the
switch between
the output and the -input and VCC. In one position the mux would make
the opamp act as a follower, in the other the inverting input's voltage
would
be much higher than the non-inverting one, so the open loop gain would
make the output saturate somewhere close to VEE.

Other requirements and don't cares:

- the switching frequency between the DAC voltage (VDAC) and the
negative output voltage (VNEG) is negligible (<10Hz).

- the transition time between VDAC ad VNEG should be as fast as possible.

- the transition time between VNEG and VDAC is not important, but
the VOUT should have no significant overshoot above VDAC.

In other words, the slow path must be precise and the negative
VOUT path must be fast.

I'm tempted to use the solution number 3, but I'm afraid of the
open-loop connection. Or should I do it in a completely different way?

Best regards, Piotr

Why not simply have resistor between DAC and follower and transistor
switch between follower input and -vee. Size resistor low enough for
speed and high enough to keep current load on DAC output below Abs-max
when switch is on?

piglet
 
Piglet wrote:

Why not simply have resistor between DAC and follower and transistor
switch between follower input and -vee. Size resistor low enough for
speed and high enough to keep current load on DAC output below Abs-max
when switch is on?

I didn't want to distort the precision path by introducing a voltage
divider (the resistor + the transistor's leakage current). The risk
of DAC destruction/latchup caused by pulling its output below GND is
perhaps also non-negligible.

Best regards, Piotr
 
Piotr Wyderski wrote...
Piglet wrote:

Why not simply have resistor between DAC and follower and transistor
switch between follower input and -vee. Size resistor low enough for
speed and high enough to keep current load on DAC output below Abs-max
when switch is on?

I didn't want to distort the precision path by introducing a voltage
divider (the resistor + the transistor's leakage current). The risk
of DAC destruction/latchup caused by pulling its output below GND is
perhaps also non-negligible.

Why not put the spdt switch between the 5V DAC and
the op-amp input? CMOS switches work properly up
to a diode drop (usually spec'd 0.3 volts) beyond
their supply rails, would -0.3 volts be enough?
Also, some low-voltage switches have Vee pins,
and can switch up to +/-5 volts.


--
Thanks,
- Win
 
Winfield Hill wrote:

Why not put the spdt switch between the 5V DAC and
the op-amp input?

This is the proposal #1 on my list.

Best regards, Piotr
 
Piotr Wyderski wrote...
Winfield Hill wrote:

Why not put the spdt switch between the 5V DAC and
the op-amp input?

This is the proposal #1 on my list.

Good, that would be my vote.


--
Thanks,
- Win
 
On Sun, 2 Jun 2019 16:21:31 +0200, Piotr Wyderski
<peter.pan@neverland.mil> wrote:

Hi,

TL;DR: a precision linear MOSFET pre-driver capable of putting negative
voltage on the gate in order to shut the current flow down. Quickly and
hard to eliminate spurious noise-induced turn-ons.

Detailed:

I have a precision unbuffered 16-bit DAC that outputs 0--4.095V. The
analog subsystem uses +12/-5V supplies in order to place the opamps
(OPA4192)
well within the linear region. Now I would like to buffer the VDAC
voltage, but also augment the buffer with the ability to output some
negative VNEG voltage in shutdown state. The closer VNEG is to the VEE
rail the better, but the exact value is unimportant. I can see 3
possible scenarios based on a DG419 SPDT switch:

1. Create a follower and add the mux to the input, switching between
VDAC and VEE. But this can add noise/nonlinearities to the precision path.

2. As above, but put the mux at the follower's output. This would add me
~30 Ohms to the output impedance.

3. Connect the DAC directly to the +input of the opamp and put the
switch between
the output and the -input and VCC. In one position the mux would make
the opamp act as a follower, in the other the inverting input's voltage
would
be much higher than the non-inverting one, so the open loop gain would
make the output saturate somewhere close to VEE.

Other requirements and don't cares:

- the switching frequency between the DAC voltage (VDAC) and the
negative output voltage (VNEG) is negligible (<10Hz).

- the transition time between VDAC ad VNEG should be as fast as possible.

- the transition time between VNEG and VDAC is not important, but
the VOUT should have no significant overshoot above VDAC.

In other words, the slow path must be precise and the negative
VOUT path must be fast.

I'm tempted to use the solution number 3, but I'm afraid of the
open-loop connection. Or should I do it in a completely different way?

Best regards, Piotr

Mux before the follower?


--

John Larkin Highland Technology, Inc

lunatic fringe electronics
 
John Larkin wrote:

> Mux before the follower?

Option 1, the most obvious solution. But will it be good for a precision
application?

Best regards, Piotr
 
On Sun, 2 Jun 2019 16:21:31 +0200, Piotr Wyderski
<peter.pan@neverland.mil> wrote:

Hi,

TL;DR: a precision linear MOSFET pre-driver capable of putting negative
voltage on the gate in order to shut the current flow down. Quickly and
hard to eliminate spurious noise-induced turn-ons.

Detailed:

I have a precision unbuffered 16-bit DAC that outputs 0--4.095V. The
analog subsystem uses +12/-5V supplies in order to place the opamps
(OPA4192)
well within the linear region. Now I would like to buffer the VDAC
voltage, but also augment the buffer with the ability to output some
negative VNEG voltage in shutdown state. The closer VNEG is to the VEE
rail the better, but the exact value is unimportant. I can see 3
possible scenarios based on a DG419 SPDT switch:

1. Create a follower and add the mux to the input, switching between
VDAC and VEE. But this can add noise/nonlinearities to the precision path.

2. As above, but put the mux at the follower's output. This would add me
~30 Ohms to the output impedance.

3. Connect the DAC directly to the +input of the opamp and put the
switch between
the output and the -input and VCC. In one position the mux would make
the opamp act as a follower, in the other the inverting input's voltage
would
be much higher than the non-inverting one, so the open loop gain would
make the output saturate somewhere close to VEE.

Other requirements and don't cares:

- the switching frequency between the DAC voltage (VDAC) and the
negative output voltage (VNEG) is negligible (<10Hz).

- the transition time between VDAC ad VNEG should be as fast as possible.

- the transition time between VNEG and VDAC is not important, but
the VOUT should have no significant overshoot above VDAC.

In other words, the slow path must be precise and the negative
VOUT path must be fast.

I'm tempted to use the solution number 3, but I'm afraid of the
open-loop connection. Or should I do it in a completely different way?

How about an opamp with an output enable or shutdown? Add a resistor
from its output to VEE.
 
On Mon, 3 Jun 2019 00:51:17 +0200, Piotr Wyderski
<peter.pan@neverland.mil> wrote:

John Larkin wrote:

Mux before the follower?

Option 1, the most obvious solution. But will it be good for a precision
application?

Best regards, Piotr

Aside from adding a little capacitance, a cmos analog mux will add
way-sub-microvolt offset and picoamps of leakage.


--

John Larkin Highland Technology, Inc

lunatic fringe electronics
 

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