Credit card fraud.

[The real Andy]

After a recent experience with thieves racking up around $3000 of
transactions (in 1 hour) on my Mastercard, i happened to stumble across some
girl trying to sell me an AMEX card with a U-beaut smart card chip inbuilt.
As I was walking out of a tandy store where the thieves purchased a mobile
phone, she cornered me in one of those stalls set up inside a shopping mall.
I promptly asked the girl "Can your wonderful card prevent this" as I waved
a wad of reprinted transactions that were made by the thieves. She replied
"Yes it can, it has this ultra-secure whizz-bang chip installed into your
card". Anyway, turns out you still need to sign when you make a transaction
and they dont use the chip, so what is the point?? Do these smart cards
actually get used, or are they just there as a marketing tool, simply
providing a false sense of security to the poor consumer that is silly
enough to sign up??

You got to love modern technology, i have printed copies of all the invoices
that theives had to sign to get the goods. I have descriptions, car
registration, video footage. I have the serial numbers of the 2 phones thye
bought, which I have since used to put stops on phones. I now even have
social security numbers and an address. Stupid thieves. Pity the police
won't do anything. I guess it doesn't really matter anyway since MAstercard
foots the bill (i think)..

 

On Fri, 8 Aug 2003 20:23:23 +1000, "The real Andy"
<ihatehifitrolls@yahoo.com.au> wrote:

and they dont use the chip, so what is the point?? Do these smart cards
actually get used, or are they just there as a marketing tool, simply
providing a false sense of security to the poor consumer that is silly
enough to sign up??

I thought they were going to put photos on the cards, got to be one of
the cheapest options available -- Pity only a few banks use it.

You got to love modern technology, i have printed copies of all the invoices
that theives had to sign to get the goods. I have descriptions, car
registration, video footage. I have the serial numbers of the 2 phones thye
bought, which I have since used to put stops on phones. I now even have
social security numbers and an address. Stupid thieves. Pity the police
won't do anything. I guess it doesn't really matter anyway since MAstercard
foots the bill (i think)..

No, the retailer.

If mastercard paid the bill then we'd have to provide dna everytime we
want to buy something instead of signing a piece of paper which they
don't even check.

 

[Arpit]

On Fri, 08 Aug 2003 21:09:52 +1000, David Sauer wrote:

On Fri, 8 Aug 2003 20:23:23 +1000, "The real Andy"
ihatehifitrolls@yahoo.com.au> wrote:

and they dont use the chip, so what is the point?? Do these smart cards
actually get used, or are they just there as a marketing tool, simply
providing a false sense of security to the poor consumer that is silly
enough to sign up??

I thought they were going to put photos on the cards, got to be one of
the cheapest options available -- Pity only a few banks use it.

I know theres transaction history on there. Ive got an appliance which
reads the info off the chips.

You got to love modern technology, i have printed copies of all the invoices
that theives had to sign to get the goods. I have descriptions, car
registration, video footage. I have the serial numbers of the 2 phones thye
bought, which I have since used to put stops on phones. I now even have
social security numbers and an address. Stupid thieves. Pity the police
won't do anything. I guess it doesn't really matter anyway since MAstercard
foots the bill (i think)..

No, the retailer.

If mastercard paid the bill then we'd have to provide dna everytime we
want to buy something instead of signing a piece of paper which they
don't even check.

 

[Terry Collins]

....snip......

MAstercard
foots the bill (i think)..

No, the retailer.

No wonder the retailers are so keen to help me. So far i have DSE, Tandy,
Retravision, BP and Autobarn all willing to provide me with whatever
information i require.

Its a shame the retailers have to cop the bill though, the theif copied my
wife's signature very well. I couldn't tell the difference.

Yep, the retailer gets hit. Customer walks, signs slip, takes goods,
then up to 12 months later can say "I didn't buy that" and gets
transaction reversed on credit card.

Retailer is told, "you prove they purchased it" and has to wear cost.

....snip.....

Mastercard dont give a shit. I told them today that I have plenty of
information for them. They are not interested. The person i spoke to said if
I want to pursue fraud charges with the police that it was up to me,
mastercard dont care.

I am curious as to why "you" and not the merchant has to pursue fraud
charges.

.......

Do you complain about collecting GST for the government?
Well, the banks have been collecting a minor GST for quite a few years
now and it is fool proof. I think they still try to charge the surcharge
on challenged transactions anyway.

--
Terry Collins {}}} email: terryc at woa.com.au www:
http://www.woa.com.au
Wombat Outdoor Adventures <Bicycles, Computers, GIS, Printing,
Publishing>

"People without trees are like fish without clean water"

 

[Rod Speed]

<David Sauer> wrote in message news117jvogqdce0cr04lesn898ilg7msa2q6@4ax.com...

On Fri, 8 Aug 2003 20:23:23 +1000, "The real Andy"
ihatehifitrolls@yahoo.com.au> wrote:

and they dont use the chip, so what is the point?? Do these smart cards
actually get used, or are they just there as a marketing tool, simply
providing a false sense of security to the poor consumer that is silly
enough to sign up??

I thought they were going to put photos on the cards, got to be one of
the cheapest options available -- Pity only a few banks use it.

You got to love modern technology, i have printed copies of all the invoices
that theives had to sign to get the goods. I have descriptions, car
registration, video footage. I have the serial numbers of the 2 phones thye
bought, which I have since used to put stops on phones. I now even have
social security numbers

No such animal in this country.

and an address. Stupid thieves. Pity the police won't do anything. I guess
it doesn't really matter anyway since MAstercard foots the bill (i think)..

No, the retailer.

Depends on the detail of whether the card has been notified
as stolen, and if the merchant bothered with an authorisation.

If mastercard paid the bill

In some situations they do.

then we'd have to provide dna everytime we
want to buy something instead of signing a
piece of paper which they don't even check.

Nope, they just build those losses into the fees
and charges and the interest rate they charge.

 

[Rod Speed]

Terry Collins <terryc@woa.com.au> wrote in
message news:3F345434.C2AE91F1@woa.com.au...

MAstercard foots the bill (i think)..

No, the retailer.

No wonder the retailers are so keen to help me. So far
i have DSE, Tandy, Retravision, BP and Autobarn all
willing to provide me with whatever information i require.

Its a shame the retailers have to cop the bill though, the theif
copied my wife's signature very well. I couldn't tell the difference.

Yep, the retailer gets hit.

Not necessarily, depends on whether they got the transaction authorised.

Customer walks, signs slip, takes goods, then
up to 12 months later can say "I didn't buy that"
and gets transaction reversed on credit card.

It aint as black and white as that with a stolen card.

Retailer is told, "you prove they purchased it" and has to wear cost.

Wrong, particularly if they got the transaction authorised.

Mastercard dont give a shit. I told them today that I have
plenty of information for them. They are not interested. The
person i spoke to said if I want to pursue fraud charges
with the police that it was up to me, mastercard dont care.

I am curious as to why "you" and not the
merchant has to pursue fraud charges.

The merchant is completely irrelevant with a stolen card.

 

[The real Andy]

"Terry Collins" <terryc@woa.com.au> wrote in message
news:3F345434.C2AE91F1@woa.com.au...

...snip......

MAstercard
foots the bill (i think)..

No, the retailer.

No wonder the retailers are so keen to help me. So far i have DSE,
Tandy,
Retravision, BP and Autobarn all willing to provide me with whatever
information i require.

Its a shame the retailers have to cop the bill though, the theif copied
my
wife's signature very well. I couldn't tell the difference.

Yep, the retailer gets hit. Customer walks, signs slip, takes goods,
then up to 12 months later can say "I didn't buy that" and gets
transaction reversed on credit card.

Retailer is told, "you prove they purchased it" and has to wear cost.

...snip.....

Mastercard dont give a shit. I told them today that I have plenty of
information for them. They are not interested. The person i spoke to
said if
I want to pursue fraud charges with the police that it was up to me,
mastercard dont care.

I am curious as to why "you" and not the merchant has to pursue fraud
charges.

I am chasing it up becasue i want to see these people get done. Alas, it
seems that the police are going to do nothing. I am sure the retailers could
also pursue costs, but i don't know how. I am more than happy to provide
them with details, and have already done so with one manager.

 

[Terry Collins]

Rod Speed wrote:

Yep, the retailer gets hit.

Not necessarily, depends on whether they got the transaction authorised.

This is not the information that I am getting from merchants who have
been hit.

--
Terry Collins {}}} email: terryc at woa.com.au www:
http://www.woa.com.au
Wombat Outdoor Adventures <Bicycles, Computers, GIS, Printing,
Publishing>

"People without trees are like fish without clean water"

 

[Terry Collins]

The real Andy wrote:

....snip......

I am curious as to why "you" and not the merchant has to pursue fraud
charges.

I am chasing it up becasue i want to see these people get done. Alas, it
seems that the police are going to do nothing. I am sure the retailers could
also pursue costs, but i don't know how. I am more than happy to provide
them with details, and have already done so with one manager.

Unfortunately, the importance of crime is directly proportional to the
amount of $$$ involved, with a side factor of "how much pull you have"
(donate to polies in power/public opinion).



--
Terry Collins {}}} email: terryc at woa.com.au www:
http://www.woa.com.au
Wombat Outdoor Adventures <Bicycles, Computers, GIS, Printing,
Publishing>

"People without trees are like fish without clean water"

 

[budgie]

On Sat, 9 Aug 2003 18:24:24 +1000, "The real Andy"
<ihatehifitrolls@yahoo.com.au> wrote:

I am chasing it up becasue i want to see these people get done. Alas, it
seems that the police are going to do nothing. I am sure the retailers could
also pursue costs, but i don't know how. I am more than happy to provide
them with details, and have already done so with one manager.

It's moments like these that some media attention sometimes triggers
their arse-covering reflex.

 

[Rod Speed]

Terry Collins <terryc@woa.com.au> wrote in
message news:3F34DF7F.8D26F59A@woa.com.au...

Rod Speed wrote:

Yep, the retailer gets hit.

Not necessarily, depends on whether
they got the transaction authorised.

This is not the information that I am
getting from merchants who have been hit.

Presumably the card was listed as stolen and the
retailer was stupid enough to not bother to check that.

 

[Terry Collins]

Rod Speed wrote:

Terry Collins <terryc@woa.com.au> wrote in
message news:3F34DF7F.8D26F59A@woa.com.au...
Rod Speed wrote:

Yep, the retailer gets hit.

Not necessarily, depends on whether
they got the transaction authorised.

This is not the information that I am
getting from merchants who have been hit.

Presumably the card was listed as stolen and the
retailer was stupid enough to not bother to check that.

Nope, not stolen. Telephone order, delivered, signature on courier's
docket, delivery address matches card holders address, but card holder
says didn't order it & didn't receive it. Merchant shafted.

I think the operative word is Telephone order, so no paperwork for
merchant to produce. Also, I could never find out if you have an online
CC system, if all transactions are automatically authorised. I have the
feeling that they aren't and banks charge extra for it.



Sufficent to say, I do not take credit cards in my sales and require
people to establish a good history before I take big orders. About once
a years (thankfully) I get a big order from someone new and my brain is
saying fraud. Explain new customer procedure and ask for cheque (or
direct deposit if you don't have a cheque account), then you usually get
some sob story abou how they can not get to bank and really need it now
blah, blah, blah. As far as I'm concerned, it isn't worth the risk to
take credit cards.



--
Terry Collins {}}} email: terryc at woa.com.au www:
http://www.woa.com.au
Wombat Outdoor Adventures <Bicycles, Computers, GIS, Printing,
Publishing>

"People without trees are like fish without clean water"

 

[Rod Speed]

Terry Collins <terryc@woa.com.au> wrote in
message news:3F35896F.29C6609B@woa.com.au...

Rod Speed wrote:
Terry Collins <terryc@woa.com.au> wrote
Rod Speed wrote:

Yep, the retailer gets hit.

Not necessarily, depends on whether
they got the transaction authorised.

This is not the information that I am
getting from merchants who have been hit.

Presumably the card was listed as stolen and the
retailer was stupid enough to not bother to check that.

Nope, not stolen.

The original was clearly talking about a STOLEN card.

Telephone order, delivered, signature on courier's docket,
delivery address matches card holders address, but card
holder says didn't order it & didn't receive it. Merchant shafted.

Wasnt what was being discussed, a STOLEN card.

I think the operative word is Telephone order,
so no paperwork for merchant to produce.

Wasnt what was being discussed, a STOLEN card.

Also, I could never find out if you have an online CC
system, if all transactions are automatically authorised.

They dont have to be. They can treat it like
a phone order as far as that is concerned.

I have the feeling that they aren't

Usually they are, because my net banking shows a reduction in
the amount I have available on the card very quickly, in minutes.

and banks charge extra for it.

Maybe, but in that case if the merchant didnt bother to get
it authorised, he's clearly taking a risk of a STOLEN card.

Sufficent to say, I do not take credit cards in my sales and require
people to establish a good history before I take big orders.

Presumably even you have noticed that the absolute
vast bulk of normal retail outlets do take the cards.

The only real exception are those so small that
the bank wont give them a merchant card account.

About once a years (thankfully) I get a big order from someone
new and my brain is saying fraud. Explain new customer procedure
and ask for cheque (or direct deposit if you don't have a cheque
account), then you usually get some sob story abou how they can
not get to bank and really need it now blah, blah, blah. As far as
I'm concerned, it isn't worth the risk to take credit cards.

I've had a few problems with phone credit card use
with the purchase of substantial items like VCRs etc.

On one occasion I actually monstered the boss because
the salesfool had said that they would take a credit card
over the phone and he appeared to have told her that
he wasnt prepared to. I kept telling him that legally he
had already had the salesfool agree to accept a credit
card and he appeared to decide that its a tad unlikely
that someone attempting card fraud would do that
and he rather reluctantly agreed to ship it and did.

 

[The real Andy]

"budgie" <budgie@nowhere.cantech.net.au> wrote in message
news:3f34ee98.1653898@news.cantech.net.au...

On Sat, 9 Aug 2003 18:24:24 +1000, "The real Andy"
ihatehifitrolls@yahoo.com.au> wrote:

I am chasing it up becasue i want to see these people get done. Alas, it
seems that the police are going to do nothing. I am sure the retailers
could
also pursue costs, but i don't know how. I am more than happy to provide
them with details, and have already done so with one manager.

It's moments like these that some media attention sometimes triggers
their arse-covering reflex.

I'm giving the police till tomorrow to do something, then I will use some
super powers to force them to do something. It just so happens that I have a
close relative who is the chief inspector of the distric that I reside. I
will be dropping in to see him tomorrow.