could this simple solution work for solder smoke device?

A

Alex Borroughs

Guest
I've been looking for a cheap, possibly DIY solder smoke solution. I
did see the device here that someone shared, but it appears to use water
and it looks like he's adding the carbon later. I had hoped for
something simpler, then I came across this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kH5APw_SLUU


My local home improvement store has this filter:

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00TUDHPS8/ref=twister_B07YT5F24V?_encoding=UTF8&psc=1


That particular filter, although somewhat expensive (MERV=12), is
supposed to remove smoke along with a host of other pollutants. It
looks like there are one or two filters also available at even higher
MERV ratings, but more expensive and I wanted the cheapest alternative
that would still take care of the smoke. Using a filter like this in
front of the box fan and placing near my soldering area would no doubt
suck in the smoke, but what about the effectiveness? Anyone ever try it
or use this method? Also, as I wouldn't be running the combination all
the time, it should last a lot longer than 3 months.

Thanks.
 
That would certainly clear the smoke out of a room, but I think it misses the point of a smaller device that could be directed to a specific location. A fan of that size takes up considerable real-estate, makes a good deal of noise, and cannot be easily directed.

Peter Wieck
Melrose Park, PA
 
On Fri, 8 Nov 2019 12:25:02 -0500, Alex Borroughs <alexb@att.net>
wrote:

I've been looking for a cheap, possibly DIY solder smoke solution. I
did see the device here that someone shared, but it appears to use water
and it looks like he's adding the carbon later. I had hoped for
something simpler, then I came across this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kH5APw_SLUU


My local home improvement store has this filter:

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00TUDHPS8/ref=twister_B07YT5F24V?_encoding=UTF8&psc=1


That particular filter, although somewhat expensive (MERV=12), is
supposed to remove smoke along with a host of other pollutants. It
looks like there are one or two filters also available at even higher
MERV ratings, but more expensive and I wanted the cheapest alternative
that would still take care of the smoke. Using a filter like this in
front of the box fan and placing near my soldering area would no doubt
suck in the smoke, but what about the effectiveness? Anyone ever try it
or use this method? Also, as I wouldn't be running the combination all
the time, it should last a lot longer than 3 months.

Thanks.
Click to expand...

How would you know if it works?

--

John Larkin Highland Technology, Inc
picosecond timing precision measurement

jlarkin att highlandtechnology dott com
http://www.highlandtechnology.com
 
On 11/8/19 12:58 PM, pfjw@aol.com wrote:
That would certainly clear the smoke out of a room, but I think it misses the point of a smaller device that could be directed to a specific location. A fan of that size takes up considerable real-estate, makes a good deal of noise, and cannot be easily directed.

Peter Wieck
Melrose Park, PA
Click to expand...

Quite right. I liked the smaller unit posted here recently, but he's
using watered down filters. I had hoped to avoid that mess, plus he
says they take a long time to dry. If dry layers could have been used
instead, that would have been a winner for me, but I don't know enough
about it.

I liked the box fan-filter idea because it was so simple. True, it will
take up a lot more space then the other device, but I can have it ready
in a pinch and not worrying about drying out afterwards.
 
On 11/8/19 1:17 PM, John Larkin wrote:
On Fri, 8 Nov 2019 12:25:02 -0500, Alex Borroughs <alexb@att.net
wrote:

I've been looking for a cheap, possibly DIY solder smoke solution. I
did see the device here that someone shared, but it appears to use water
and it looks like he's adding the carbon later. I had hoped for
something simpler, then I came across this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kH5APw_SLUU


My local home improvement store has this filter:

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00TUDHPS8/ref=twister_B07YT5F24V?_encoding=UTF8&psc=1


That particular filter, although somewhat expensive (MERV=12), is
supposed to remove smoke along with a host of other pollutants. It
looks like there are one or two filters also available at even higher
MERV ratings, but more expensive and I wanted the cheapest alternative
that would still take care of the smoke. Using a filter like this in
front of the box fan and placing near my soldering area would no doubt
suck in the smoke, but what about the effectiveness? Anyone ever try it
or use this method? Also, as I wouldn't be running the combination all
the time, it should last a lot longer than 3 months.

Thanks.

How would you know if it works?
Click to expand...

The best way I know how might be to try burning something smoky like
incense for a few minutes and see if the smell clears the room. I know
that's probably not the best way. I was relying more on filter specs
than anything else. That seemed to be the lowest strength that filtered
smoke also.
 
John Larkin <jlarkin@highland_atwork_technology.com> wrote:

On Fri, 8 Nov 2019 12:25:02 -0500, Alex Borroughs <alexb@att.net
wrote:

I've been looking for a cheap, possibly DIY solder smoke solution. I
did see the device here that someone shared, but it appears to use water
and it looks like he's adding the carbon later. I had hoped for
something simpler, then I came across this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kH5APw_SLUU


My local home improvement store has this filter:

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00TUDHPS8/ref=twister_B07YT5F24V?_encoding=UTF
8&psc=1


That particular filter, although somewhat expensive (MERV=12), is
supposed to remove smoke along with a host of other pollutants. It
looks like there are one or two filters also available at even higher
MERV ratings, but more expensive and I wanted the cheapest alternative
that would still take care of the smoke. Using a filter like this in
front of the box fan and placing near my soldering area would no doubt
suck in the smoke, but what about the effectiveness? Anyone ever try it
or use this method? Also, as I wouldn't be running the combination all
the time, it should last a lot longer than 3 months.

Thanks.

How would you know if it works?
Click to expand...

I use a pair of Dylos Pro Particle counters:

http://www.dylosproducts.com/?gclid=EAIaIQobChMIwurowqDb5QIVAY_ICh3nzwtYEAA
YASAAEgIPRfD_BwE

One at the input of the filter, one at the output.

Ordinarily, particle counters are useless for home use since they cannot
distinguish between organic particles such as dust mite excretement, cat
dander, etc., and harmless mist from taking a shower or cooking.

However, a pair of particle counters are excellent at determing the
effectiveness of a filter.
 
On Friday, November 8, 2019 at 1:18:57 PM UTC-5, Alex Borroughs wrote:

Quite right. I liked the smaller unit posted here recently, but he's
using watered down filters. I had hoped to avoid that mess, plus he
says they take a long time to dry. If dry layers could have been used
instead, that would have been a winner for me, but I don't know enough
about it.
Click to expand...

The water-filters increase the efficiency of the filters used. There are any number of dry carbon-filters that would also do the trick, and there are any number of methods to treat the water so that mold/mildew would not form in the filters. My concerns with a simple particle filter are as follows:

a) Particle filters (MERV-13) are useless against gasses, odors and pretty much useless against micro-contaminants (smaller than one (1) Micron.
b)The components of solder-rosin smoke that are (sometimes) harmful would pass right through it.
c) Footprint - no matter how large a bench one has, there is always just a little bit too-little room on it.

https://www.digikey.com/en/product-highlight/a/apex-tool-group/wsa350-smoke-absorber?utm_adgroup=xGeneral&slid=&gclid=CjwKCAiAwZTuBRAYEiwAcr67OWVP14Ng285ePVKo_gxZuLUmWGEVA9JBroBt_3iUslC77NDd8jZPYxoCyHkQAvD_BwE

Depending on how much your time is worth, this would solve the problem once and for all at a not-ridiculous cost.

Peter Wieck
Melrose Park, PA
 
On 11/8/19 1:49 PM, Steve Wilson wrote:
John Larkin <jlarkin@highland_atwork_technology.com> wrote:

On Fri, 8 Nov 2019 12:25:02 -0500, Alex Borroughs <alexb@att.net
wrote:

I've been looking for a cheap, possibly DIY solder smoke solution. I
did see the device here that someone shared, but it appears to use water
and it looks like he's adding the carbon later. I had hoped for
something simpler, then I came across this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kH5APw_SLUU


My local home improvement store has this filter:

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00TUDHPS8/ref=twister_B07YT5F24V?_encoding=UTF
8&psc=1


That particular filter, although somewhat expensive (MERV=12), is
supposed to remove smoke along with a host of other pollutants. It
looks like there are one or two filters also available at even higher
MERV ratings, but more expensive and I wanted the cheapest alternative
that would still take care of the smoke. Using a filter like this in
front of the box fan and placing near my soldering area would no doubt
suck in the smoke, but what about the effectiveness? Anyone ever try it
or use this method? Also, as I wouldn't be running the combination all
the time, it should last a lot longer than 3 months.

Thanks.

How would you know if it works?

I use a pair of Dylos Pro Particle counters:

http://www.dylosproducts.com/?gclid=EAIaIQobChMIwurowqDb5QIVAY_ICh3nzwtYEAA
YASAAEgIPRfD_BwE

One at the input of the filter, one at the output.

Ordinarily, particle counters are useless for home use since they cannot
distinguish between organic particles such as dust mite excretement, cat
dander, etc., and harmless mist from taking a shower or cooking.

However, a pair of particle counters are excellent at determing the
effectiveness of a filter.
Click to expand...

Great idea until I saw the price, ouch, but probably the no doubt best
way.
 
On 11/8/19 2:23 PM, pfjw@aol.com wrote:
> .... and there are any number of methods to treat the water so that mold/mildew would not form in the filters.

Well, if I didn't have to remove, wash and dry the filters each time in
the device Horton used, how would I go about treating the water to
prevent mold build up?


https://www.digikey.com/en/product-highlight/a/apex-tool-group/wsa350-smoke-absorber?utm_adgroup=xGeneral&slid=&gclid=CjwKCAiAwZTuBRAYEiwAcr67OWVP14Ng285ePVKo_gxZuLUmWGEVA9JBroBt_3iUslC77NDd8jZPYxoCyHkQAvD_BwE

Depending on how much your time is worth, this would solve the problem once and for all at a not-ridiculous cost.
Click to expand...

I will check this out, thank you.

Peter Wieck
Melrose Park, PA
Click to expand...
 
Understand two things first. The filters are to be kept DAMP, not saturated.. So, there is not a lot of water in there in the first place. I expect that they would dry out (in a normal interior climate) before the 'grew' in any case - much as the sponge on your tip-cleaner if you use that method. Second, any filter you use will either need to be cleaned or replaced with some frequency depending on use.

With that in mind, synthetic filters are not attacked by most common solvents and disinfectants. So, one tablespoon of household bleach per pint of water, a 10% solution of isopropyl alcohol and water, two jiggers of vodka per pint of water, a teaspoon of borax per pint of water and so on all would take care of any growth issues.

Peter Wieck
Melrose Park, PA
 
On 11/8/19 3:28 PM, pfjw@aol.com wrote:
> Understand two things first. The filters are to be kept DAMP, not saturated. So, there is not a lot of water in there in the first place. I expect that they would dry out (in a normal interior climate) before the 'grew' in any case - much as the sponge on your tip-cleaner if you use that method. Second, any filter you use will either need to be cleaned or replaced with some frequency depending on use.

Got it.

With that in mind, synthetic filters are not attacked by most common solvents and disinfectants. So, one tablespoon of household bleach per pint of water, a 10% solution of isopropyl alcohol and water, two jiggers of vodka per pint of water, a teaspoon of borax per pint of water and so on all would take care of any growth issues.
Click to expand...

All I have is Everclear and of course rubbing alcohol here, so one will
do!

Peter Wieck
Melrose Park, PA
Click to expand...

Thank you. I think what Horton posted is what I will go with after all.
 
On 08/11/2019 17:25, Alex Borroughs wrote:
> I've been looking for a cheap, possibly DIY solder smoke solution.

<snip>

Most of my soldering nowadays is done peering down a binocular
microscope. If I have to do more than I can manage to hold my breath
for, I use a snorkel. Works well.

Cheers
--
Clive
 
On Sun, 10 Nov 2019 10:24:05 +0000, Clive Arthur
<cliveta@nowaytoday.co.uk> wrote:

On 08/11/2019 17:25, Alex Borroughs wrote:
I've been looking for a cheap, possibly DIY solder smoke solution.

snip

Most of my soldering nowadays is done peering down a binocular
microscope. If I have to do more than I can manage to hold my breath
for, I use a snorkel. Works well.

Cheers
Click to expand...

I love my Mantis. It's super 3D, super bright and clear, and has a big
working distance.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/wlim2da8cv9q6fj/Bench_Mantis.jpg?raw=1

I can put a rackmount box on the bench and swing the Mantis over/into
it.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/gqendd0rnn3k7w0/Mantis_Box.JPG?raw=1


You can also poke a regular camera into the hood

https://www.dropbox.com/s/1qv6gjt9kc0gjy8/Mantis3.JPG?raw=1


I don't worry about solder smoke. I've been soldering since I was 3
years old.








--

John Larkin Highland Technology, Inc

lunatic fringe electronics
 
On 11/10/19 5:24 AM, Clive Arthur wrote:
On 08/11/2019 17:25, Alex Borroughs wrote:
I've been looking for a cheap, possibly DIY solder smoke solution.

snip

Most of my soldering nowadays is done peering down a binocular
microscope.  If I have to do more than I can manage to hold my breath
for, I use a snorkel.  Works well.

Cheers
Click to expand...

I ended up going with Mr. Horton's solution as I also made the "5 layer"
device and added an activated carbon layer as well using a spare,
non-functional fan as containment. Device works pretty darn well. I
haven't done any soldering yet, but it has done a remarkable job just
cleaning the air in one of the bedrooms.

Sounds like someone does surface mount soldering. I attempted it once
and the result was disaster and haven't done so since.
 
In article <qq9h87$70m$1@dont-email.me>, alexb@att.net says...
Sounds like someone does surface mount soldering. I attempted it once
and the result was disaster and haven't done so since.
Click to expand...

Smd for the most part is very easy, However you have to have the proper
equipment to do it.

I bet that Mantis is nice, but as a hobbiest I can not afford to put $
1500 to much more than that in it. I did buy an Amscore scope 10x for
about $ 200 that works well . A hot air wand and very small soldering
pencil is needed. The one for around $ 75 is good enough for very
casual work.
Just don't drink coffee for about a week before trying it.. I don't
drink coffee anyway.
 
On Sun, 10 Nov 2019 12:26:29 -0500, Alex Borroughs <alexb@att.net>
wrote:

On 11/10/19 5:24 AM, Clive Arthur wrote:
On 08/11/2019 17:25, Alex Borroughs wrote:
I've been looking for a cheap, possibly DIY solder smoke solution.

snip

Most of my soldering nowadays is done peering down a binocular
microscope.  If I have to do more than I can manage to hold my breath
for, I use a snorkel.  Works well.

Cheers

I ended up going with Mr. Horton's solution as I also made the "5 layer"
device and added an activated carbon layer as well using a spare,
non-functional fan as containment. Device works pretty darn well. I
haven't done any soldering yet, but it has done a remarkable job just
cleaning the air in one of the bedrooms.

Sounds like someone does surface mount soldering. I attempted it once
and the result was disaster and haven't done so since.
Click to expand...

That's about all that I do. I was intiially terrified of 1206 parts.
Now I find 0402s to be mildly annoying.



--

John Larkin Highland Technology, Inc

lunatic fringe electronics
 
On Sunday, November 10, 2019 at 7:45:47 AM UTC-8, jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:

I don't worry about solder smoke. I've been soldering since I was 3
years old.
Click to expand...

Though the solders of the 1960s didn't scar your lungs, the fluxes
in use nowadays are sufficiently diverse that a precaution or two might
be appropriate. Like air conditioning to prevent perspiration,
a bit of airflow so the work isn't upwind of your face might be a good
soldering-station idea. Consider the musical warning "Smoke gets in your eyes".
 
On Sunday, November 10, 2019 at 1:30:16 PM UTC-5, John Larkin wrote:
On Sun, 10 Nov 2019 12:26:29 -0500, Alex Borroughs wrote:

On 11/10/19 5:24 AM, Clive Arthur wrote:
On 08/11/2019 17:25, Alex Borroughs wrote:

Sounds like someone does surface mount soldering. I attempted it once
and the result was disaster and haven't done so since.

That's about all that I do. I was initially terrified of 1206 parts.
Now I find 0402s to be mildly annoying.
Click to expand...

Be glad that you don't do Microwave work that sometimes use 0201 or 01005 capacitors, at a fraction of a pF. They look like dust, in the container. :(
 
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