Could a T-Mobile repeater & femtocell be moved to a new loca

[Harold Newton]

THEORETICAL question (not a legal question!):

Given there are *huge* gains to be made in cellular signal strength...
<https://u.cubeupload.com/RUsTGy.jpg>

Q: Would T-Mobile *know* if I *moved* the femtocell and/or repeater to a
different location altogether than my own house?
<https://u.cubeupload.com/RU3rGl.jpg>

I live in the Santa Cruz mountains, where all cellular carrier signal
sucks, and I have a big house ... hence, my cellular carrier, T-Mobile,
provides me a free femtocell, and since my Internet comes from about 5
miles away over the air via WISP from another mountain, T-Mobile also gave
me a free cellular repeater.

Here's a picture of the repeater and femtocell:
<https://u.cubeupload.com/sSOph0.jpg>

Here is a picture of just one of my many access points inside my house:
<https://u.cubeupload.com/EZvpx3.jpg>

Given that there is unquestionably a *huge* signal strength advantage:
<https://u.cubeupload.com/jqV5cR.jpg>

The question came up in another discussion by "The Real Bev" whether the
repeater or femtocell can "realistically" be "moved" to a second or third
location.
<https://u.cubeupload.com/RLxLv5.jpg>

Ignoring the legality, since, as I recall, T-Mobile made me agree verbally
over the phone that I would inform them if I move them, and knowing that
the output of both transformers are 12VDC at 1.5 and 2.0 Amps, the question
is *theoretical* only!
<<https://u.cubeupload.com/RJ3cs6.jpg>>

Theoretical question:
Q: How would T-Mobile *know* if I *moved* the femtocell and/or repeater to
a different location altogether than my own house?

 

[Harold Newton]

This is a response from "The Real Bev" brought over from the other thread
so that we can keep the answers together in one related thread.

The ">" denotes "Harold Newton", while lack of ">" is "The Real Bev".

The repeater (which basically just picks up a weak signal and amplifies it)
has a power supply whose secondary is 12 VDC at 1.5 Amps, which is
*perfect* for a cigarette-lighter adapter, don't you think?

Exactly. Does it have a wall-wart with a USB socket? OTOH, I have a
couple of converters...

The femtocell, which has to be attached to a router, has a power supply
secondary output of 12 VDC at 2.0 Amps - which is also within the range of
a car.

Of course, they work in hotels too, and camping, so, you *could* get away
with it - but I wonder if they could tell?

For the repeater, they might not be able to tell, unless the repeater
itself sends a signal *back* to the tower since I've already seen using the
debugging tools on the Android phone that the repeater just repeats the
*same* tower information to the phone.

Why would they bother? Why would they even care?

That is, the Android debugging tools I've used show clearly that the
repeater itself, does not seem to provide the phone with any other number
but the nearest (strongest) unique tower number.

However, when my Android phone picks up the femtocell, the *unique* number
of the femtocell *is* displayed on the phone (this test can't work on iOS
even though the iOS Apple Apologists "say" it can, sans any proof).

In summary, for the free T-Mobile cellular repeater:
a. The free repeater use 12 volts DC input at 1.5 Amps of current
b. Hence, the repeater could be used in a car, theoretically (I assume)
c. Certainly it could be used camping or at a hotel
d. But would T-Mobile know that you moved it?
e. Maybe not. The repeater just strengthens the local tower strength
f. Does the repeater report back to T-Mobile? I don't know.

In summary, for the free T-Mobile cellular femtocell:
A. The free femtocell uses 12 volts DC input at 2.0 Amps of current
B. But it needs to be connected, via Ethernet cable, to 'something'
C. In a car, I don't know of that 'something' to connect to (do you?)

I have USB and earphone sockets, but no ethernet :-( Does it normally
plug into 110V with a wallwart? I have a converter. Doesn't solve the
ethernet problem, though, which presumes a router :-( Never mind...

You'd think they'd provide a simple cigarette-lighter plug-in unit.
It's to their advantage that you be able to connect with T-Mobile as
often as possible -- otherwise you might choose Verizon. Maybe even a
rechargeable battery-operated unit so I could phone from the ski slope

D. Certainly it could be used camping or at a hotel if you have an AP
E. But would T-Mobile know that you moved it?
F. Probably. The femtocell has a unique tower number & your IP address
G. However, you can change your IP address so, maybe T-Mobile won't notice?
H. But the IP address has a "geolookup" location - which they 'could' see

Perhaps run a VPN on your phone. No idea how practical this is.

Dunno enough about this, but I added sci.electronics.repair because smart
people like Jeff Liebermann know this stuff far better than I do.

All I know is that T-Mobile gave me both, even though they normally only
give you one, because I have a large house and I get my Internet over the
air via WISP which Jeff Liebermann is intimately familiar with, so they
gave me both, for redundancy, for free, with zero deposit required.

I NEED to visit the T-M store.

 

[Harold Newton]

This is a response from "pfjw@aol.com" brought over from the other thread
so that we can keep the answers together in one related thread.
<https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/misc.phone.mobile.iphone/aLtBm7k2UO0>
*****

OK - on the off-chance that you are actually serious about your question,
and yet have no capacity for internal thought or logic, a condition proven
repeatedly.

a) The repeater *does* report back to the tower, just as your cell-phone.
How do you think cell-calls are traced? This is not just 'movie' stuff, but
everyday stuff. Not just cell phones, but your car, your FitBit and much
more. The point of this device is that you are in a poor coverage area.
Otherwise, you would not need it. Meaning, it acts as an amped-up link for
your phone.

b) Therefore, the moment you moved this device onto another tower, your
provider would know it. They live for jackasses, cretins, donkeys and
assorted other detritus - such as you - who somehow feel that agreements
made in good faith are to be ignored for their personal benefit. Let me put
it another way - if you can figure out an angle to cheat, they have entire
staffs dedicated to thwarting idiots like you.

You really do need to get a life - and/or invest in learning about critical
thinking as you are, clearly, a tick on the soft underbelly of society in
your present state.

 

[Harold Newton]

In the other thread, "The Real Bev" wrote:

Does it have a wall-wart with a USB socket? OTOH, I have a
couple of converters...

It's 12VDC at 1.5 Amps but we don't know how well regulated it needs to be.

However, the end of the wall wort looks like the standard circle:dot plugs.
So it's trivial to wire the power to work in a vehicle.
(This assumes the EMF isn't too high nor automotive voltage fluctuation.)

For the repeater, they might not be able to tell, unless the repeater
itself sends a signal *back* to the tower since I've already seen using the
debugging tools on the Android phone that the repeater just repeats the
*same* tower information to the phone.

Why would they bother? Why would they even care?

Heh heh heh... because everyone would want to carry around their own
personal cell tower, I suspect.

But I really do not know why they made me agree, over the phone, as I
recall, to not moving it without telling them. Dunno why they would care,
but, they did give them to me based on my particular location and they have
to cost them money - so - it seems consistent that they'd want me to use it
for the same purpose that they gave it to me for.

I'm not arguing against their rationale at all.
I'm just wondering what you wondered, which is whether it would *continue*
to work, longer term, while traveling.

I feel it's almost certain, if not certain, that it would work anywhere,
short term, just as putting a SIM card into a smart phone on the olden days
on AT&T would work for a while and then AT&T would slam you with data
charges even though you have a data block on the line.

It would just depend on how long T-Mobile would take to catch that you
moved it, and whether they cared that you did.

Can they remotely turn it off? The femtocell, probably. The repeater?
Probably not.

In summary, for the free T-Mobile cellular femtocell:
A. The free femtocell uses 12 volts DC input at 2.0 Amps of current
B. But it needs to be connected, via Ethernet cable, to 'something'
C. In a car, I don't know of that 'something' to connect to (do you?)

I have USB and earphone sockets, but no ethernet :-( Does it normally
plug into 110V with a wallwart? I have a converter. Doesn't solve the
ethernet problem, though, which presumes a router :-( Never mind...

The wall wart isn't the problem, as long as you end up with reasonably well
regulated 12VDC at about 1.5 to 2.0 Amps without too much EMF.

The femtotower would work wonders anywhere where you have a WiFi access
point handy, and 120VAC, but if you want it to work inside a vehicle, then
the femtocell isn't your first choice becuase it requires an Internet
connection via RJ45.

So, for your purpose, of working in a car, only the repeater is potentially
viable.

You'd think they'd provide a simple cigarette-lighter plug-in unit.
It's to their advantage that you be able to connect with T-Mobile as
often as possible -- otherwise you might choose Verizon. Maybe even a
rechargeable battery-operated unit so I could phone from the ski slope

I'm not going to argue with you.
Probably the FCC has something to say about "roving cell towers" though, as
that's what it would be.

BTW, *anyone* can connect to the repeated amplified cellular tower that is
in your house ... (even the femtotower), so in the case of the femtowoer,
you're offloading T-Mobile's cellular traffic onto your ISP and in the case
of the repeater, you're acting as a free cellular tower for T-Mobile's
customers to use.

It doesn't go all that far though. Maybe a few hundred feet, at best for
those high-decibel signal strengths I posted earlier.

D. Certainly it could be used camping or at a hotel if you have an AP
E. But would T-Mobile know that you moved it?
F. Probably. The femtocell has a unique tower number & your IP address
G. However, you can change your IP address so, maybe T-Mobile won't notice?
H. But the IP address has a "geolookup" location - which they 'could' see

Perhaps run a VPN on your phone. No idea how practical this is.

VPN at the *router* would probably "confuse" T-Mobile, I agree.

All I know is that T-Mobile gave me both, even though they normally only
give you one, because I have a large house and I get my Internet over the
air via WISP which Jeff Liebermann is intimately familiar with, so they
gave me both, for redundancy, for free, with zero deposit required.

I NEED to visit the T-M store.

I've had these things for a few years, so here's all I can tell you.

T-Mobile offered me three choices, of which I took two (but normally you
only get one choice):
1. Free no-deposit Wi-Fi router, or,
2. Free no-deposit Femto tower (connected to your router), or,
3. Free no-deposit cellular repeater (two units, one window, one tower).

The first one "is" a router, while the second connects "to" a router and
acts like a tower inside your house, while the third grabs a signal from a
tower outside your house and re-broadcasts that signal as a "tower" inside
your house.

Anyone in the vicinity on T-Mobile can use that signal.

I don't know more than this, and even some of this "can" be wrong, which is
why I asked the folks on s.e.r and a.h.r for additional advice for you.

 

[Harold Newton]

"pfjw@aol.com" wrote:

OK - on the off-chance that you are actually serious about your question,
and yet have no capacity for internal thought or logic, a condition proven
repeatedly.

Rest assured I'm of average intelligence, very highly educated, and of
rational thought, where my belief system is based purely on facts that
support it - hence - if you show facts otherwise - I have no problem
changing my belief system.

Let's reserve judgment based on what we learn in adult discourse below...

> a) The repeater *does* report back to the tower, just as your cell-phone.

Let's first use the Covey Principle, of reflecting what you're saying (seek
first to understand - then to be understood).

Is this what you're saying:
1. The weak cellular signal comes from distant "real" cell tower #100.
2. That weak cell tower #100 signal is picked up by my Window Unit.
3. The Window Unit broadcasts that signal to my Home Unit.
4. The Home Unit acts as an amplified "repeater" for cell tower #100.
5. I can easily *see* this on my Android phone, which reports the tower #.
6. Then my phone connects to the Home Unit ...
7. Which connects to the Window Unit ...
8. Which connects to the "real" cell tower #100.
9. Such that, the "real" cell tower #100 "sees" your phone connected to it.

Is that what you're saying?
(Please correct where I err.)

How do you think cell-calls are traced? This is not just 'movie' stuff, but
everyday stuff. Not just cell phones, but your car, your FitBit and much
more. The point of this device is that you are in a poor coverage area.
Otherwise, you would not need it. Meaning, it acts as an amped-up link for
your phone.

I already know, from extensive use of software on Android that Jeff
Liebermann told me about, that the cellular repeater picks up and repeats
*different* "real" towers, only one at a time, but which one depends
depends on which window in the house that I face it and which real cell
tower has the best signal (as I can log that it changes even when it's in
the same window).

This is the advantage of the Android free software that Jeff and I tested
extremely thoroughly, which allows you to conclusively show what unique
tower ID is being used (whether or not that tower is in an Internet
database - because it uses the actual tower CID - and not some geolocation
guess based on an Internet lookup like OpenSignal does).

The only real question, which is NOT a legal question, is the pragmatic
question, of whether T-Mobile *could* that the *repeater* was moved, say,
100 miles from where it's supposed to be.

That's the question.
a. Could they notice the *repeater* moved?
b. Note they'd have to KNOW that the repeater moved - not the phone!
c. Note they do know the *phone* moved - but that's not the question!

b) Therefore, the moment you moved this device onto another tower, your
provider would know it.

Attempting to seek first to understand, and then be understood...
Is this what you're saying, comes *after* step 9 above:
10. Now you *move* the Window/Home Units to a location 100 miles away.
11. The "new" cellular signal comes from new "real" cell tower #200.
12. That new cell tower #200 signal is picked up by my Window Unit.
13. The Window Unit broadcasts that signal to my Home Unit.
14. The Home Unit acts as an amplified "repeater" for cell tower #200.
15. I can easily *see* this on my Android phone, which reports the tower #.
16. Then my phone connects to the Home Unit ...
17. Which connects to the Window Unit ...
18. Which connects to the "real" cell tower #200.
19. Such that T-Mobile "sees" your phone connected to new cell tower #200.

Is that process what you're trying to explain to us?

They live for jackasses, cretins, donkeys and
assorted other detritus - such as you - who somehow feel that agreements
made in good faith are to be ignored for their personal benefit. Let me put
it another way - if you can figure out an angle to cheat, they have entire
staffs dedicated to thwarting idiots like you.

Let's remove the needless vitriol and stick to the technical topic.
Let's act like adults, using normal adult words and discourse.

First off, it's not my question but I'm repeating "The Real Bev's"
question, which I found interesting - and which - I said - from the very
beginning - is being asked for theoretical purposes.

If I had wanted to do this, I would have tested it long ago, as it's my
service on the line if I actually do it. It's easy to test - but I don't
want to test out T-Mobile's patience. I just want to know the answer to the
technical question.

It's sort of like asking what it's like to climb Mount Everest ... where it
doesn't mean that you have to climb it just because you find out the
answer.

You really do need to get a life - and/or invest in learning about critical
thinking as you are, clearly, a tick on the soft underbelly of society in
your present state.

Needless insults aside, the question is whether T-Mobile "sees" the
*repeater* or the *phone* connecting to real cell tower #200.

If all T-Mobile sees connecting to the new cell tower #200 is the *phone*,
then theoretically, T-Mobile has no way of knowing that you "moved" the
repeater; however, if T-Mobile can actually see the *repeater*, then they
do know, instantly, that you moved it.

Do you know the answer to this question?

 

[pfjw@aol.com]

I laid a logic trap and you stepped into it with both feet.

a) A local cell device connects your cell phone to your isp. NOT A TOWER. Gee, how could highly educated person of average intelligence miss that?

b) Your ISP is unique to you. Much as each cell tower is unique. And why I laid such a broad hint given the fact that you are looking for validation of a pre-conceived notion, not of actual facts. Making your IP address unique. T-Mobile is entirely aware of this.

c) The moment that your *CELL* is reporting to a different ISP, the IP address connected to your phone will be DIFFERENT. T-Mobile will know this, also instantly.

Your cell phone is unique. When you are able to make the most basic connections to how things actually work as compared to your desire to game the system, you might be a happier person. As it is, you are the slime that the cleaning help removes when bleaching the toilet - and about as useful.

If you enjoy being shown for the waste-of-air that you are, keep right on posting. Otherwise, go away.

 

[Harold Newton]

On Tue, 23 Jan 2018 14:35:25 -0800, The Real Bev wrote:

The question came up in another discussion by "The Real Bev" whether the
repeater or femtocell can "realistically" be "moved" to a second or third
location.
https://u.cubeupload.com/RLxLv5.jpg

For me, that question is moot: "T-Mobile 4G LTE CellSpot is available to
current postpaid and simple choice customers. Prepaid customers cannot
currently request a 4G LTE CellSpot." I assume this is the repeater.

https://support.t-mobile.com/docs/DOC-24269

Supposedly there's a deposit, and you have to return the thing when you
cancel service.

Yes, there is "supposedly" a deposit, just like there is a SIM card fee of
something like $15, but T-Mobile has *never* charged me either, and I get a
*lot* of SIM cards from them, and two of these "cell spot" devices.

BTW, from a branding perspective, "Cell Spot" is sort of like "iPhone".
They use that "cell spot" name for *different* things.

Both of my devices are *called* a "personal cellspot:, but they're
different.
<https://u.cubeupload.com/RU3rGl.jpg>

One is a repeater.
The other is a femtotower.

Both make an astoundingly huge difference in signal strength!
<https://u.cubeupload.com/RUsTGy.jpg>

I assume this is the repeater.
https://support.t-mobile.com/docs/DOC-24269

No. That's the free femtocell that plugs into your router.

The "repeater" is the two-piece unit called "4G LET Signal Booster":
<https://u.cubeupload.com/sSOph0.jpg>

You see two of them in that photo because I complained to T-Mobile about it
not working and they sent me a new one by next-day delivery.

The femtocell is the one on the right called "4G LTE CellSpot".

> Supposedly there's a deposit,

They "waived" the supposed deposit for me and for *every* one of my
relatives who got it (more than one). So I don't think there "is" a
deposit, in practice.

> and you have to return the thing when you cancel service.

I think they said they'd charge me $400 if I didn't return it when they ask
for it, e.g., when they sent me a second repeater (aka signal booster).

 

[Harold Newton]

On Tue, 23 Jan 2018 17:55:24 -0800 (PST), pfjw@aol.com wrote:

> I laid a logic trap and you stepped into it with both feet.

I am responding *kindly* and *gently* in response to your insults, which I
will ignore completely because I gain nothing of value by embarrassing you
in front of everyone.

I just want the answer to the basic technical question of how T-Mobile
would know the *location* of the cellular repeater unless the repeater
somehow tells the cellular tower that its signal is being "repeated" by the
repeater.

> a) A local cell device connects your cell phone to your isp.

I think you may have accidentally inadvertently misunderstood the question.

The ISP is not involved in the least.
The cellular repeater works completely *outside* the ISP.

HINT: These devices are *completely different* in functionality.
<https://u.cubeupload.com/RU3rGl.jpg>

The ISP is *not* involved with the repeater. Period.

> NOT A TOWER.

It seems you accidentally inadvertently misunderstood the question.

Again... Please read what I wrote.

The TOWER *is* involved with the cellular repeater.
The ISP is *not* involved with the cellular repeater.

HINT: Nobody is talking about the femtocell wired to the router.

> Gee, how could highly educated person of average intelligence miss that?

I'm not sure why me being educated and yet still of average intelligence
upsets you so much.

Anyway, ignoring the untoward insults from you, I just hope that you
realize this thread isn't a contest of who is smarter than whom.

OK. You're smarter. I have no problem admitting that.

In fact, Jeff Liebermann is far smarter than both of us, combined.

I don't care who is smarter. I really don't.
I just care about the answer to the question.

It's OK if you don't know what a cellular repeater is, and it's even ok
that you don't know the answer to the question in the last post.

But please don't try to insult someone like me simply because *you* want to
feel smug - as it doesn't add any value to the conversation.

a. It doesn't help me.
b. It doesn't help anyone else.
c. And it's certainly not becoming of you.

b) Your ISP is unique to you.
Much as each cell tower is unique.
And why I laid such a broad hint given the fact that you are
looking for validation of a pre-conceived notion, not of actual facts.

Once you slow down, and stop trying to prove an intellectual mastery over
me, who is only of average intelligence, you will realize (if you read what
I wrote and that which you are responding), that I asked you a question
about the cellular repeater.

I didn't ask the question about the femtocell.

1. I asked if the repeater works the way I said it did, and,
2. I asked you *how* T-Mobile would know *where* that repeater was.

It's perfectly fine if you do not know the answer to those questions, but
it's really not becoming for you to intimate you "laid a trap" when you
don't even seem to understand the questions.

Really. I'm trying to be as gentle with you as I can. I am.

> Making your IP address unique. T-Mobile is entirely aware of this.

Let's repeat that nobody ever said otherwise.

You appear to be talking about the femtocell - which ties to the ISP -
which absolutely nobody disputed. Ever.

The question you are responding to wasn't about the femtocell.
The question was about the repeater.

Please read the post you are responding to again.
Maybe one more time after that.

If, after that, you still don't understand the difference, that's fine.

But please don't immediately resort to insults merely because you don't
know the difference so you misunderstood the question.

It's OK that you misunderstood the question.
The only thing I care about is the *answer* to the question.

Do you know the answer to the question in the post you're responding to?
If so, please let us all know.

> c) The moment that your *CELL* is reporting to a different ISP...

The ISP is not involved in the least with a *repeater* (aka booster).

Look at these pictures. They're *not* all the same device!
https://u.cubeupload.com/sSOph0.jpg

Until you understand the difference between a repeater and a femtocell, you
won't be able to help anyone.

You writing untoward self-serving insults isn't helping anyone either.

> the IP address connected to your phone will be DIFFERENT.

We're talking "cellular" signal, where there is no IP address involved.
There "is" a carrier-derived IP address for data, but that's different.

My ISP is completely out of the loop with this cellular repeater.
Until you understand that, you won't be able to help anyone.

> T-Mobile will know this, also instantly.

Yes. We *always* said the femtocell is tied to the router which is tied to
your ISP which is tied to an IP address.

Nobody *ever* said otherwise.

We aren't asking about the femtocell; we're *clearly* asking about the
cellular repeater (aka the cellular booster).

> Your cell phone is unique.

Yup. IMEI.

When you are able to make the most basic connections to how
things actually work as compared to your desire to game the system,
you might be a happier person.

I'll be nice again, and just say you might want to reconsider that
statement in light of the facts presented very clearly to you above.

As it is, you are the slime that the cleaning help removes when
bleaching the toilet - and about as useful.

Again. I'll be nice in saying that your remarks are untoward, and therefore
I will merely ignore the insults.

If you enjoy being shown for the waste-of-air that you are,
keep right on posting. Otherwise, go away.

Again, I'll be nice in just asking you to re-read the post you are
responding to, and if you know the answer to the question posed, then
please let us all know.

If you do not know the answer to the question, or if (as it seems) you
don't even *understand* the question - it's best for all concerned
(including yourself) if you refrain from posting in this thread again.

Thanks! And good luck. I wish you the best.

I just wish *someone* (a) understands the question, and (b) knows the
answer to the question.

--
BTW, you acted *exactly* like Snit did in this rather humorous video:
<https://youtu.be/7QaABa6DFIo>

 

[Harold Newton]

On Tue, 23 Jan 2018 17:55:24 -0800 (PST), pfjw@aol.com wrote:

> I laid a logic trap and you stepped into it with both feet.

I am responding *kindly* and *gently* in response to your insults, Snit,
which I will ignore completely because I gain nothing of value by
embarrassing you in front of everyone.

I just want the answer to the basic technical question of how T-Mobile
would know the *location* of the cellular repeater unless the repeater
somehow tells the cellular tower that its signal is being "repeated" by the
repeater.

> a) A local cell device connects your cell phone to your isp.

I think you may have accidentally inadvertently misunderstood the question.

The ISP is not involved in the least.
The cellular repeater works completely *outside* the ISP.

HINT: These devices are *completely different* in functionality.
<https://u.cubeupload.com/RU3rGl.jpg>

The ISP is *not* involved with the repeater. Period.

> NOT A TOWER.

It seems you accidentally inadvertently misunderstood the question.

Again... Please read what I wrote.

The TOWER *is* involved with the cellular repeater.
The ISP is *not* involved with the cellular repeater.

HINT: Nobody is talking about the femtocell wired to the router.

> Gee, how could highly educated person of average intelligence miss that?

I'm not sure why me being educated and yet still of average intelligence
upsets you so much, Snit.

Anyway, ignoring the untoward insults from you, I just hope that you
realize this thread isn't a contest of who is smarter than whom.

OK. You're smarter. I have no problem admitting that.

In fact, Jeff Liebermann is far smarter than both of us, combined.

I don't care who is smarter. I really don't.
I just care about the answer to the question.

It's OK if you don't know what a cellular repeater is, and it's even ok
that you don't know the answer to the question in the last post.

But please don't try to insult someone like me simply because *you* want to
feel smug - as it doesn't add any value to the conversation.

a. It doesn't help me.
b. It doesn't help anyone else.
c. And it's certainly not becoming of you.

b) Your ISP is unique to you.
Much as each cell tower is unique.
And why I laid such a broad hint given the fact that you are
looking for validation of a pre-conceived notion, not of actual facts.

Snit, Once you slow down, and stop trying to prove an intellectual mastery
over me, who is only of average intelligence, you will realize (if you read
what I wrote and that which you are responding), that I asked you a
question about the cellular repeater.

Remember, Snit ... I didn't ask the question about the femtocell.

1. I asked if the repeater works the way I said it did, and,
2. I asked you *how* T-Mobile would know *where* that repeater was.

It's perfectly fine if you do not know the answer to those questions, but
it's really not becoming for you to intimate you "laid a trap" when you
don't even seem to understand the questions.

Really. I'm trying to be as gentle with you as I can. I am.

> Making your IP address unique. T-Mobile is entirely aware of this.

Let's repeat that nobody ever said otherwise, Snit.

You appear to be talking about the femtocell - which ties to the ISP -
which absolutely nobody disputed. Ever.

The question you are responding to wasn't about the femtocell.
The question was about the repeater.

Please read the post you are responding to again.
Maybe one more time after that.

If, after that, you still don't understand the difference, that's fine.

But please don't immediately resort to insults merely because you don't
know the difference so you misunderstood the question.

Snit: It's OK that you misunderstood the question.
The only thing I care about is the *answer* to the question.

Do you know the answer to the question in the post you're responding to?
If so, please let us all know.

> c) The moment that your *CELL* is reporting to a different ISP...

The ISP is not involved in the least with a *repeater* (aka booster).

Look at these pictures. They're *not* all the same device!
https://u.cubeupload.com/sSOph0.jpg

Until you understand the difference between a repeater and a femtocell, you
won't be able to help anyone.

You writing untoward self-serving insults isn't helping anyone either.

> the IP address connected to your phone will be DIFFERENT.

We're talking "cellular" signal, where there is no IP address involved.
There "is" a carrier-derived IP address for data, but that's different.

My ISP is completely out of the loop with this cellular repeater.
Until you understand that, you won't be able to help anyone.

> T-Mobile will know this, also instantly.

Yes. We *always* said the femtocell is tied to the router which is tied to
your ISP which is tied to an IP address.

Nobody *ever* said otherwise.

We aren't asking about the femtocell; we're *clearly* asking about the
cellular repeater (aka the cellular booster).

> Your cell phone is unique.

Yup. IMEI.

When you are able to make the most basic connections to how
things actually work as compared to your desire to game the system,
you might be a happier person.

I'll be nice again, Snit, and just say you might want to reconsider that
statement in light of the facts presented very clearly to you above.

As it is, you are the slime that the cleaning help removes when
bleaching the toilet - and about as useful.

Again. I'll be nice in saying that your remarks are untoward, and therefore
I will merely ignore the insults.

If you enjoy being shown for the waste-of-air that you are,
keep right on posting. Otherwise, go away.

Again, I'll be nice in just asking you to re-read the post you are
responding to, and if you know the answer to the question posed, then
please let us all know.

If you do not know the answer to the question, or if (as it seems) you
don't even *understand* the question - it's best for all concerned
(including yourself) if you refrain from posting in this thread again.

Thanks! And good luck. I wish you the best, Snit.

I just wish *someone* (a) understands the question, and (b) knows the
answer to the question.

--
BTW, you acted *exactly* like you did in this rather humorous video:
<https://youtu.be/7QaABa6DFIo>

 

[Fox's Mercantile]

On 1/23/18 10:30 PM, Harold Newton wrote:

I am responding*kindly* and*gently* in response to your
insults, Snit,

Get it through that thick skull of yours shithead.
Neither I nor Peter is snit.

Moron.

--
"I am a river to my people."
Jeff-1.0
WA6FWi
http:foxsmercantile.com

 

[Harold Newton]

On Tue, 23 Jan 2018 22:48:39 -0600, Fox's Mercantile wrote:

I am responding*kindly* and*gently* in response to your
insults, Snit,

Get it through that thick skull of yours shithead.
Neither I nor Peter is snit.

Moron.

Hehhehheh... do you realize what you just accidentally did?

You responded, as Fox, to the post to your *other* nym, pfjw.


You really need to get your nyms straight, Snit.

I suggest you work on that before respoonding as the wrong nym again.

Seriously Snit ... I'm being very gentle with you, where I'll just note
that you haven't added a single iota of technical value to this thread, so
I suggest you stop posting to it, as the rest of us are trying to get
something answered.

Thanks for understanding the gentle request to stay on topic.

If you *understand* the question, please do answer it.
If not, please refrain from posting as it adds nothing of value for anyone.

 

[Fox's Mercantile]

On 1/23/18 10:57 PM, Harold Newton wrote:

On Tue, 23 Jan 2018 22:48:39 -0600, Fox's Mercantile wrote:

I am responding*kindly* and*gently* in response to your
insults, Snit,
Get it through that thick skull of yours shithead.
Neither I nor Peter is snit.

Moron.
Hehhehheh... do you realize what you just accidentally did?

You responded, as Fox, to the post to your*other* nym, pfjw.

In addition to being a shithead, you're an ignorant liar as well.

--
"I am a river to my people."
Jeff-1.0
WA6FWi
http:foxsmercantile.com

 

[Jeff Liebermann]

On Tue, 23 Jan 2018 17:44:12 +0000 (UTC), Harold Newton
<harold@example.com> wrote:

Theoretical question:
Q: How would T-Mobile *know* if I *moved* the femtocell and/or repeater to
a different location altogether than my own house?

You do the grunt work this time. Dig into the instructions for the
Femtocell box and see if it has a GPS inside. If it's not clear, grab
the FCCID and look it up on the FCCID site. If it has a GPS, T-Mobile
will know where you're located. Whether they do anything about a
change in location is unknown. I've moved a Verizon femtocell box
about 50 miles without any problems. However, that was inside Verizon
territory. If you move your T-Mobile femtocell to some location where
T-Mobile doesn't claim to have service, I have not idea if they will
thank you for improving their footprint, disconnect your service, or
something in between. Good luck.

--
Jeff Liebermann jeffl@cruzio.com
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

 

[Harold Newton]

On Wed, 24 Jan 2018 09:46:53 -0800, Jeff Liebermann wrote:

Q: How would T-Mobile *know* if I *moved* the femtocell and/or repeater to
a different location altogether than my own house?

You do the grunt work this time. Dig into the instructions for the
Femtocell box and see if it has a GPS inside. If it's not clear, grab
the FCCID and look it up on the FCCID site. If it has a GPS, T-Mobile
will know where you're located. Whether they do anything about a
change in location is unknown. I've moved a Verizon femtocell box
about 50 miles without any problems. However, that was inside Verizon
territory. If you move your T-Mobile femtocell to some location where
T-Mobile doesn't claim to have service, I have not idea if they will
thank you for improving their footprint, disconnect your service, or
something in between. Good luck.

Hi Jeff,
Thanks for that input.

It's not a big deal because I was answering the question for "The Real
Bev", where I'm pretty sure (but not positive) the answer is thus.

1. Repater
2. Femtocell

The Repeater "probably" does not report back to the cellular provider
anything as it's likely just a "bridge" of sorts that just passes the MAC
address (among other things) straight through.

In that case, the cellular provider probably can't tell that you moved the
repeater because it likely doesn't even know that the repeater is involved.

The Femtocell is *completely* different.

They know *everything* about the Femtocell; so it's interesting you were
able to move it. Perhaps the IP geolocation isn't great enough, in your
test, to flag their "movement" algorithm.

Thanks!

 

In alt.internet.wireless Harold Newton <harold@example.com> wrote:

The Repeater "probably" does not report back to the cellular provider
anything as it's likely just a "bridge" of sorts that just passes the MAC
address (among other things) straight through.

I found repeaters to be useless junk for weak signal areas. I think they
would be fine for repeating a signal through a steel walled building or
something of that sort.

> The Femtocell is *completely* different.

I had an AT&T Femtocell... still do. But I don't have an AT&T account, so
I can't test it in my current location. Wonderful thing.

I noticed that Kaiser Hospital has Verizon Femtocell. You can see them in
the hallways, and a little house icon appears above the full-bar cellular
icon on my phone.

They know *everything* about the Femtocell; so it's interesting you were
able to move it. Perhaps the IP geolocation isn't great enough, in your
test, to flag their "movement" algorithm.

"Everything"? How do they know Everything?
I disagree with Jeff L occasionally, but, he's never wrong.
As I recall, my AT&T Femtocell did have a GPS, and setup advice included
positioning it near a window if it didn't activate correctly.

I didn't have a problem activating it, so I don't know if it needs GPS
after a power failure, or IP change, etc.


--
Clarence A Dold - Santa Rosa, CA, USA GPS: 38.47,-122.65

 

[Harold Newton]

On Thu, 25 Jan 2018 17:58:50 +0000 (UTC), dold@24.usenet.us.com wrote:

"Everything"? How do they know Everything?
I disagree with Jeff L occasionally, but, he's never wrong.
As I recall, my AT&T Femtocell did have a GPS, and setup advice included
positioning it near a window if it didn't activate correctly.

I didn't have a problem activating it, so I don't know if it needs GPS
after a power failure, or IP change, etc.

Agreed that Jeff is usually on the money and that you have a point which is
that the femtocell comes with a GPS contraption, which you only use during
the initial setup.

You can see the stick-on GPS unit bottom right in the photo below.
<https://u.cubeupload.com/RU3rGl.jpg>

Why did they ask me to plug that GPS unit in *only* during setup?

 

[pfjw@aol.com]

On Thursday, January 25, 2018 at 2:56:42 PM UTC-5, Harold Newton wrote:

> Why did they ask me to plug that GPS unit in *only* during setup?

Perhaps because they were naive enough to take you at your word that you would not move the device, once installed. Once its location is established, they need not waste the bandwidth any further.

 

Harold Newton posted for all of us...

https://u.cubeupload.com/RU3rGl.jpg

This site is blocked in Malwarebytes

--
Tekkie

 

[Jeff Liebermann]

On Thu, 25 Jan 2018 19:56:36 +0000 (UTC), Harold Newton
<harold@example.com> wrote:

>Agreed that Jeff is usually on the money

Hardly. I probably make more mistakes than others. The difference is
that I usually admit being wrong. Feel free to trust me, but it pays
to verify.

and that you have a point which is
that the femtocell comes with a GPS contraption, which you only use during
the initial setup.

You can see the stick-on GPS unit bottom right in the photo below.
https://u.cubeupload.com/RU3rGl.jpg

Why did they ask me to plug that GPS unit in *only* during setup?

Good question. It didn't take much for me to find out what happens if
one doesn't have a GPS signal with a Verizon nanocellular box:
<https://www.verizonwireless.com/accessories/samsung-network-extender-scs-2u01/>
This is 3G only, no LTE. From a cold start, it takes 15-30 minutes
for the unit to boot to the point where it will accept calls. If the
GPS has a good view of the sky, 10 minutes is about the fastest I've
seen. If you have a partial or marginal view (as most of my customers
do), much longer.

If I take a working unit (all lights blue), and pull the plug on the
external GPS antenna connector, it remains functional for about 20
minutes. It then starts flashing the GPS lock light and will not
accept or receive calls. After loss of lock, if I plug the antenna
back in, it locks faster than a cold start. I didn't time this, but
my guess(tm) is about half.

If I take a working unit (all lights blue), and remove power at the
wall wart, it will recover lock in about 5 minutes. However, if I
leave it unplugged for over 15 minutes, it will take 10-30 minutes, as
in the initial cold boot, to lock again.

So, my guess(tm) is that:
1. There is no non-volatile storage in the unit to store the GPS
position and to provide a faster cold lock.
2. There is a BFC (big fat capacitor) inside to help deal with power
outages.
3. Without a GPS signal, it will make phone calls for about 15-20
minutes before it quits, after which it will refuse to make or accept
phone calls.

Not all devices are created equal. As micro/nano/pico/femto/extender
cellular devices go, this Verizon unit is rather old. The T-Mobile
devices are much newer and may have improvements in the GPS area, such
as battery, supercap, or NVRAM backup. Dunno. Testing is easy
enough. Set it up so it works, cover the GPS antenna, and wait for
the device to complain.

--
Jeff Liebermann jeffl@cruzio.com
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558