Cost to install 15A GPO?

[Nick Adams]

Afternoon guys,

I have purchased a used 1600W UPS that requires 15A GPO. I currently
only have standard 10A GPO's where the unit will be going.

As it stands now, all the gear that will be run off the UPS runs fine
off the one 10A GPO - three computers, no monitors and a bit of
networking gear. A very rough, completely over exaggerated estimation
they would draw 1400W.

The outlet is only 6M from the breaker board and is on the same circuit
as a home theatre system (large CRT TV, audio amp, Digital STB...etc),
microwave and other miscellaneous devices.

Two questions:

1/ I'm of the opinion that I shouldn't just run the UPS on the 10A GPO.
Is this technically correct? Given that the devices run fine now is it
one of those 'will probably work but don't do it' situations?

2/ If I have to install [wait, wait...if I have to pay a qualified
electrician to install] a new 15A GPO what is a rough guestimation of
cost? Likely factors include only 6M from the breaker board, there are
'spots' spare on the breaker board and I'm located in inner-north Brisbane.

Any replies greatly appreciated.

 

[sam]

Nick Adams wrote:

Afternoon guys,

I have purchased a used 1600W UPS that requires 15A GPO. I currently
only have standard 10A GPO's where the unit will be going.

I don't know what the norm is for UPSes, but drawing 2400 to 3600 W and supplying 1600W doesn't
sound very efficient. Using the waste 800 to 2000W to heat the house in winter might help

As it stands now, all the gear that will be run off the UPS runs fine
off the one 10A GPO - three computers, no monitors and a bit of
networking gear. A very rough, completely over exaggerated estimation
they would draw 1400W.

3 average PCs and the network gear might draw 300W tops on average, probably less IMO. Maybe peaking
higher during disk activity, startup etc.

The outlet is only 6M from the breaker board and is on the same circuit
as a home theatre system (large CRT TV, audio amp, Digital STB...etc),
microwave and other miscellaneous devices.

Two questions:

1/ I'm of the opinion that I shouldn't just run the UPS on the 10A GPO.
Is this technically correct? Given that the devices run fine now is it
one of those 'will probably work but don't do it' situations?

It probably wouldn't use anything like 10A in practice, so I'd put an 8 or 10 amp fuse in the UPS
and give it a go.

Cheers,

 

[Michael A. Terrell]

sam wrote:

Nick Adams wrote:
Afternoon guys,

I have purchased a used 1600W UPS that requires 15A GPO. I currently
only have standard 10A GPO's where the unit will be going.


I don't know what the norm is for UPSes, but drawing 2400 to 3600 W and supplying 1600W doesn't
sound very efficient. Using the waste 800 to 2000W to heat the house in winter might help

As it stands now, all the gear that will be run off the UPS runs fine
off the one 10A GPO - three computers, no monitors and a bit of
networking gear. A very rough, completely over exaggerated estimation
they would draw 1400W.


3 average PCs and the network gear might draw 300W tops on average, probably less IMO. Maybe peaking
higher during disk activity, startup etc.

The outlet is only 6M from the breaker board and is on the same circuit
as a home theatre system (large CRT TV, audio amp, Digital STB...etc),
microwave and other miscellaneous devices.

Two questions:

1/ I'm of the opinion that I shouldn't just run the UPS on the 10A GPO.
Is this technically correct? Given that the devices run fine now is it
one of those 'will probably work but don't do it' situations?


It probably wouldn't use anything like 10A in practice, so I'd put an 8 or 10 amp fuse in the UPS
and give it a go.

Cheers,

Did you stop to think that when the batteries are charging, you may
still need full output for the regular load?


--
Service to my country? Been there, Done that, and I've got my DD214 to
prove it.
Member of DAV #85.

Michael A. Terrell
Central Florida

 

[sam]

Michael A. Terrell wrote:

Did you stop to think that when the batteries are charging, you may
still need full output for the regular load?

Yes, I did, thanks. Perhaps the batteries are charged at a higher current than I was expecting.
I'd still be giving it a go though.

Cheers,

 

[Phil Allison]

"Nick Adams"

I have purchased a used 1600W UPS that requires 15A GPO. I currently only
have standard 10A GPO's where the unit will be going.

** What that indicates IS that when *fully* loaded and charging, the unit
draws in excess of 10 amps RMS continuous from the AC supply. So the makers
were compelled to fit a 15 amp plug to comply with regulations.

Is it the sort that runs 100% of the time ( ie a sine wave supply ) - or
only when AC supply is lost.

As it stands now, all the gear that will be run off the UPS runs fine off
the one 10A GPO - three computers, no monitors and a bit of networking
gear. A very rough, completely over exaggerated estimation they would draw
1400W.

** Bet it is not even half that.

The outlet is only 6M from the breaker board and is on the same circuit as
a home theatre system (large CRT TV, audio amp, Digital STB...etc),
microwave and other miscellaneous devices.

** IMO - that circuit is overloaded.

But all that will happen is the breaker in the power box will trip when the
" uW" is operated.

Two questions:

1/ I'm of the opinion that I shouldn't just run the UPS on the 10A GPO. Is
this technically correct? Given that the devices run fine now is it one of
those 'will probably work but don't do it' situations?

** Yep.



......... Phil

 

[Nick Adams]

Phil Allison wrote:

"Nick Adams"
I have purchased a used 1600W UPS that requires 15A GPO. I currently only
have standard 10A GPO's where the unit will be going.


** What that indicates IS that when *fully* loaded and charging, the unit
draws in excess of 10 amps RMS continuous from the AC supply. So the makers
were compelled to fit a 15 amp plug to comply with regulations.

Is it the sort that runs 100% of the time ( ie a sine wave supply ) - or
only when AC supply is lost.

Yes, it is an 'online' UPS and is supplying power from battery 100% of
the time.

As it stands now, all the gear that will be run off the UPS runs fine off
the one 10A GPO - three computers, no monitors and a bit of networking
gear. A very rough, completely over exaggerated estimation they would draw
1400W.


** Bet it is not even half that.

I agree. That was more of a worst case scenario. I would rather
overestimate than underestimate.

They are not really average computers but rather servers. In total there
is about 12 HDD's between a few RAID arrays. Even then...your right.

The outlet is only 6M from the breaker board and is on the same circuit as
a home theatre system (large CRT TV, audio amp, Digital STB...etc),
microwave and other miscellaneous devices.


** IMO - that circuit is overloaded.

Probably. My question is, how much additional load will the UPS take? If
I'm pushing it now how much closer does this bring me to breaking point
(pun intended)?

But all that will happen is the breaker in the power box will trip when the
" uW" is operated.


Two questions:

1/ I'm of the opinion that I shouldn't just run the UPS on the 10A GPO. Is
this technically correct? Given that the devices run fine now is it one of
those 'will probably work but don't do it' situations?


** Yep.

Cool. Thanks Phil.

 

[Phil Allison]

"Nick Adams"

* Is it the sort that runs 100% of the time ( ie a sine wave supply ) -
or only when AC supply is lost.

Yes, it is an 'online' UPS and is supplying power from battery 100% of the
time.

** That is not strictly true.

The batteries will normally be fully charged and "floating" while an
internal DC supply operates the 240 volt re-generator circuit. This DC
supply will need to do *two* jobs whenever there has been a recent AC
power outage, recharge the batteries AND run the 240 volt re-generator.

This is when the AC supply draw can exceed 10 amps RMS.

Your power circuit likely has a 16 amp breaker.

Now, the "uW" oven draws about 8 amps.

Add it all up.

Snap.



........ Phil

 

[Nick Adams]

Phil Allison wrote:

"Nick Adams"

* Is it the sort that runs 100% of the time ( ie a sine wave supply ) -
or only when AC supply is lost.
Yes, it is an 'online' UPS and is supplying power from battery 100% of the
time.


** That is not strictly true.

The batteries will normally be fully charged and "floating" while an
internal DC supply operates the 240 volt re-generator circuit. This DC
supply will need to do *two* jobs whenever there has been a recent AC
power outage, recharge the batteries AND run the 240 volt re-generator.

This is when the AC supply draw can exceed 10 amps RMS.

Your power circuit likely has a 16 amp breaker.

Now, the "uW" oven draws about 8 amps.

Add it all up.

Snap.

OK. Any idea of ballpark costs to add a new 15A outlet? I have no idea
if its closer to $100 or $1000.

 

[atec77]

Nick Adams wrote:

Phil Allison wrote:
"Nick Adams"

* Is it the sort that runs 100% of the time ( ie a sine wave supply
) - or only when AC supply is lost.
Yes, it is an 'online' UPS and is supplying power from battery 100%
of the time.


** That is not strictly true.

The batteries will normally be fully charged and "floating" while an
internal DC supply operates the 240 volt re-generator circuit. This
DC supply will need to do *two* jobs whenever there has been a recent
AC power outage, recharge the batteries AND run the 240 volt
re-generator.

This is when the AC supply draw can exceed 10 amps RMS.

Your power circuit likely has a 16 amp breaker.

Now, the "uW" oven draws about 8 amps.

Add it all up.

Snap.

OK. Any idea of ballpark costs to add a new 15A outlet? I have no idea
if its closer to $100 or $1000.
anywhere between one and two hun' normally ) dont quote me 'till the

sparky looks) , depends on location and if it has certain hardware
availible . ( and room in your electrical box)

 

[R1rob]

Get a few installed at once if you need them.
1/3 of the fee is prolly appearance money.


"atec77" <atec77@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:446704b7$0$17545$61c65585@un-2park-reader-01.sydney.pipenetworks.com.au...

Nick Adams wrote:
Phil Allison wrote:
"Nick Adams"

* Is it the sort that runs 100% of the time ( ie a sine wave
upply ) - or only when AC supply is lost.
Yes, it is an 'online' UPS and is supplying power from battery 100% of
the time.


** That is not strictly true.

The batteries will normally be fully charged and "floating" while an
internal DC supply operates the 240 volt re-generator circuit. This DC
supply will need to do *two* jobs whenever there has been a recent AC
power outage, recharge the batteries AND run the 240 volt
re-generator.

This is when the AC supply draw can exceed 10 amps RMS.

Your power circuit likely has a 16 amp breaker.

Now, the "uW" oven draws about 8 amps.

Add it all up.

Snap.

OK. Any idea of ballpark costs to add a new 15A outlet? I have no idea if
its closer to $100 or $1000.
anywhere between one and two hun' normally ) dont quote me 'till the
sparky looks) , depends on location and if it has certain hardware
availible . ( and room in your electrical box)

 

[Poxy]

"Nick Adams" <buzz@off.com> wrote in message
news:4466facc$0$25131$afc38c87@news.optusnet.com.au...

Phil Allison wrote:
"Nick Adams"

* Is it the sort that runs 100% of the time ( ie a sine wave
upply ) -
or only when AC supply is lost.
Yes, it is an 'online' UPS and is supplying power from battery 100% of
the
time.


** That is not strictly true.

The batteries will normally be fully charged and "floating" while an
internal DC supply operates the 240 volt re-generator circuit. This DC
supply will need to do *two* jobs whenever there has been a recent AC
power outage, recharge the batteries AND run the 240 volt
re-generator.

This is when the AC supply draw can exceed 10 amps RMS.

Your power circuit likely has a 16 amp breaker.

Now, the "uW" oven draws about 8 amps.

Add it all up.

Snap.

OK. Any idea of ballpark costs to add a new 15A outlet? I have no idea
if its closer to $100 or $1000.

'Pends if you need a new circuit, which is sounds like you do. If so, you'll
be up for a new breaker and RCD if there isn't one already, and then there's
the effort involved in running the cable, and there's the cost of the
outlets. I'm guessing at least a couple of hundred, maybe $500 if it's a dog
of a job, maybe more if there's complications.

Get a recommendation for a good sparkie and give them a call.

To give you some idea, about a year ago I got 2 new circuits put on - I
supplied and ran cable, sparkie supplied RCD + 2 breakers and extra consumer
unit plus 1 double exterior GPO and 1 industrial single phase gpo - all up
cost about $400.

 

[Mr.T]

"sam" <sam@esams.com> wrote in message news:4466b492@quokka.wn.com.au...

3 average PCs and the network gear might draw 300W tops on average,
probably less IMO. Maybe peaking
higher during disk activity, startup etc.

You don't know much about PC's then! A Pentium CPU by itself requires about
100W each. Have you ever wondered why a single PC power supply is rated at
300-500 Watts, or more? Maybe your "average" is for a 24 hour period where
the computers are turned off 2/3rds of the time?

MrT.

 

[atec77]

Mr.T wrote:

"sam" <sam@esams.com> wrote in message news:4466b492@quokka.wn.com.au...
3 average PCs and the network gear might draw 300W tops on average,
probably less IMO. Maybe peaking
higher during disk activity, startup etc.

You don't know much about PC's then! A Pentium CPU by itself requires about
100W each. Have you ever wondered why a single PC power supply is rated at
300-500 Watts, or more? Maybe your "average" is for a 24 hour period where
the computers are turned off 2/3rds of the time?

MrT.




I suspect you are suffering under a misapprehension as to the actual

consumption and power rating of a power supply , perhaps you might
investigate OHM'S law .

 

[David Sauer]

On Sun, 14 May 2006 19:39:24 +1000, Nick Adams <buzz@off.com> wrote:

Phil Allison wrote:
"Nick Adams"

* Is it the sort that runs 100% of the time ( ie a sine wave supply ) -
or only when AC supply is lost.
Yes, it is an 'online' UPS and is supplying power from battery 100% of the
time.


** That is not strictly true.

The batteries will normally be fully charged and "floating" while an
internal DC supply operates the 240 volt re-generator circuit. This DC
supply will need to do *two* jobs whenever there has been a recent AC
power outage, recharge the batteries AND run the 240 volt re-generator.

This is when the AC supply draw can exceed 10 amps RMS.

Your power circuit likely has a 16 amp breaker.

Now, the "uW" oven draws about 8 amps.

Add it all up.

Snap.

OK. Any idea of ballpark costs to add a new 15A outlet? I have no idea
if its closer to $100 or $1000.

$100 for RCD/MCDB combo
$100 for cable, GPO, fixing etc.
$240 for labour

Of course its more economical to get a couple of other items done at
the same time if required.

 

[Mr.T]

"atec77" <atec77@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:446826cc$0$17544$61c65585@un-2park-reader-01.sydney.pipenetworks.com.au
....

3 average PCs and the network gear might draw 300W tops on average,
probably less IMO. Maybe peaking
higher during disk activity, startup etc.

You don't know much about PC's then! A Pentium CPU by itself requires
about
100W each. Have you ever wondered why a single PC power supply is rated
at
300-500 Watts, or more? Maybe your "average" is for a 24 hour period
where
the computers are turned off 2/3rds of the time?


I suspect you are suffering under a misapprehension as to the actual
consumption and power rating of a power supply , perhaps you might
investigate OHM'S law .

I'm well aware of ohms law. You OTOH have no idea about modern PC power
requirements when they are actually working.
Or maybe you are claiming to have a PC power supply with greater than 100%
efficiency??

MrT.

 

[Kr]

On Sun, 14 May 2006 19:39:24 +1000, Nick Adams <buzz@off.com> wrote:

Phil Allison wrote:
"Nick Adams"

* Is it the sort that runs 100% of the time ( ie a sine wave supply ) -
or only when AC supply is lost.
Yes, it is an 'online' UPS and is supplying power from battery 100% of the
time.


** That is not strictly true.

The batteries will normally be fully charged and "floating" while an
internal DC supply operates the 240 volt re-generator circuit. This DC
supply will need to do *two* jobs whenever there has been a recent AC
power outage, recharge the batteries AND run the 240 volt re-generator.

This is when the AC supply draw can exceed 10 amps RMS.

Your power circuit likely has a 16 amp breaker.

Now, the "uW" oven draws about 8 amps.

Add it all up.

Snap.

OK. Any idea of ballpark costs to add a new 15A outlet? I have no idea
if its closer to $100 or $1000.

it depends on what is involved in the 6 metre cable run, if its just
going to be put on the wall in a conduit (or just tacked on a timber
wall), its going to be a lot less effort than if it has to go through
brick walls, or has to be hidden in a wall cavity, be routed through
the ceiling/floor for appearance etc.

Also depends on the condition of the fuse-board too. if its something
40 years old thats already overloaded to buggery, then a sparky might
insist on it being upgraded in order to be able to connect another
socket.

Of course, the cheapest way would be to get a socket mounted on or
next to the actual board, and run a 15a extension cord. To do this is
extremely easy if you have a modern DIN rail board and use a DIN rail
power socket.

As a guesstimate for a non-complicated cable run - about $200.

As others have said, while you have the sparky there, If there are
other projects you have been putting off, it would be a good idea to
get them done as well - while he is there.

Finally, a word of warning. A mate of mine who bought a 1950's home
about a decade back, had a nasty electrical fire start at the rooftop
cable entry box (where the cable from the street pole joins to the
house). Turned out that when the house was built, they only used 6mm
sq cable for the main to the fusebox and after adding an air-con unit,
electric stove (originally had gas) the load proved to be too much for
the cable and it had to be replaced. I would insist that the sparky
check that your cable is a sufficient diameter while he is there. In
this case they upgraded the cable to 16mm sq.

 

[atec77]

Mr.T wrote:

"atec77" <atec77@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:446826cc$0$17544$61c65585@un-2park-reader-01.sydney.pipenetworks.com.au
...
3 average PCs and the network gear might draw 300W tops on average,
probably less IMO. Maybe peaking
higher during disk activity, startup etc.
You don't know much about PC's then! A Pentium CPU by itself requires
about
100W each. Have you ever wondered why a single PC power supply is rated
at
300-500 Watts, or more? Maybe your "average" is for a 24 hour period
where
the computers are turned off 2/3rds of the time?


I suspect you are suffering under a misapprehension as to the actual
consumption and power rating of a power supply , perhaps you might
investigate OHM'S law .

I'm well aware of ohms law. You OTOH have no idea about modern PC power
requirements when they are actually working.
Or maybe you are claiming to have a PC power supply with greater than 100%
efficiency??

MrT.


Once again I say you sir really know sfa about the inner workings of a

computer , google surge and Ohms law .

 

[Nick Adams]

Kr wrote:

it depends on what is involved in the 6 metre cable run, if its just
going to be put on the wall in a conduit (or just tacked on a timber
wall), its going to be a lot less effort than if it has to go through
brick walls, or has to be hidden in a wall cavity, be routed through
the ceiling/floor for appearance etc.

Tacked to wood bearers. It's under the house and fully accessible to
walk around. The cable can run through the existing hole in the wall to
the board.

Also depends on the condition of the fuse-board too. if its something
40 years old thats already overloaded to buggery, then a sparky might
insist on it being upgraded in order to be able to connect another
socket.

Probably less than 20 years or so. Looks "recent" enough considering the
few fuse boards I have seen.

Of course, the cheapest way would be to get a socket mounted on or
next to the actual board, and run a 15a extension cord. To do this is
extremely easy if you have a modern DIN rail board and use a DIN rail
power socket.

That would work. Interesting...

As a guesstimate for a non-complicated cable run - about $200.

Seems to be the general consensus.

As others have said, while you have the sparky there, If there are
other projects you have been putting off, it would be a good idea to
get them done as well - while he is there.

We will definitely need a RCD device so there's something.

Finally, a word of warning. A mate of mine who bought a 1950's home
about a decade back, had a nasty electrical fire start at the rooftop
cable entry box (where the cable from the street pole joins to the
house). Turned out that when the house was built, they only used 6mm
sq cable for the main to the fusebox and after adding an air-con unit,
electric stove (originally had gas) the load proved to be too much for
the cable and it had to be replaced. I would insist that the sparky
check that your cable is a sufficient diameter while he is there. In
this case they upgraded the cable to 16mm sq.

Will do. Many thanks to everyone for their advice.

 

[Mr.T]

"atec77" <atec77@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:44685d21$0$17546$61c65585@un-2park-reader-01.sydney.pipenetworks.com.au
....

3 average PCs and the network gear might draw 300W tops on average,
probably less IMO. Maybe peaking
higher during disk activity, startup etc.
You don't know much about PC's then! A Pentium CPU by itself requires
about
100W each. Have you ever wondered why a single PC power supply is
rated
at
300-500 Watts, or more? Maybe your "average" is for a 24 hour period
where
the computers are turned off 2/3rds of the time?


I suspect you are suffering under a misapprehension as to the actual
consumption and power rating of a power supply , perhaps you might
investigate OHM'S law .

I'm well aware of ohms law. You OTOH have no idea about modern PC power
requirements when they are actually working.
Or maybe you are claiming to have a PC power supply with greater than
100%
efficiency??


Once again I say you sir really know sfa about the inner workings of a
computer , google surge and Ohms law .

What exactly should I be looking for? If Intel says a Pentium draws 135W at
full load, (Ok the new ones are only 95W) how do I power it from a 100W
power supply? Where does the power come from for the rest of the computer?
What is the efficiency of the PSU?
Please provide all the Ohms law calculations you believe are appropriate.

MrT.

 

[atec77]

Mr.T wrote:

"atec77" <atec77@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:44685d21$0$17546$61c65585@un-2park-reader-01.sydney.pipenetworks.com.au
...
3 average PCs and the network gear might draw 300W tops on average,
probably less IMO. Maybe peaking
higher during disk activity, startup etc.
You don't know much about PC's then! A Pentium CPU by itself requires
about
100W each. Have you ever wondered why a single PC power supply is
rated
at
300-500 Watts, or more? Maybe your "average" is for a 24 hour period
where
the computers are turned off 2/3rds of the time?


I suspect you are suffering under a misapprehension as to the actual
consumption and power rating of a power supply , perhaps you might
investigate OHM'S law .
I'm well aware of ohms law. You OTOH have no idea about modern PC power
requirements when they are actually working.
Or maybe you are claiming to have a PC power supply with greater than
100%
efficiency??

Once again I say you sir really know sfa about the inner workings of a
computer , google surge and Ohms law .


What exactly should I be looking for? If Intel says a Pentium draws 135W at
full load, (Ok the new ones are only 95W) how do I power it from a 100W
power supply? Where does the power come from for the rest of the computer?
What is the efficiency of the PSU?
Please provide all the Ohms law calculations you believe are appropriate.

MrT.


Do you own work sport , it will be far more worthwhile.

however keep in mind the power supply is work case max , it takes more
to spin a drive up than to keep it spinning .(generalized example and
have fun)