connector hell

[Winfield Hill]

Kyocera 6200067012800 connector bottom-view
drawing, actually shows top view. Arrggh!
Discrepancy should have been obvious.

Examining actual part revealed the truth,
but only after placing the PCB order.

Ha, could mount connectors on the bottom.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/b1peq3xzwdph3us/006200067012800%2B_1mm_6-cond_RA-TH.pdf?dl=0


--
Thanks,
- Win

 

[Martin Riddle]

On Thu, 16 May 2019 19:24:25 -0700 (PDT), Rick C
<gnuarm.deletethisbit@gmail.com> wrote:

On Thursday, May 16, 2019 at 9:44:22 PM UTC-4, Winfield Hill wrote:
Kyocera 6200067012800 connector bottom-view
drawing, actually shows top view. Arrggh!
Discrepancy should have been obvious.

Examining actual part revealed the truth,
but only after placing the PCB order.

Ha, could mount connectors on the bottom.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/b1peq3xzwdph3us/006200067012800%2B_1mm_6-cond_RA-TH.pdf?dl=0

I don't see anything on the drawing that would make me think this was the bottom view. What am I missing?

The dashed lines of the conector body. Thats what we use for bottom
mounted components on the top silk screen.

Cheers

 

[Martin Riddle]

On 16 May 2019 18:44:08 -0700, Winfield Hill
<hill@rowland.harvard.edu> wrote:

Kyocera 6200067012800 connector bottom-view
drawing, actually shows top view. Arrggh!
Discrepancy should have been obvious.

Examining actual part revealed the truth,
but only after placing the PCB order.

Ha, could mount connectors on the bottom.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/b1peq3xzwdph3us/006200067012800%2B_1mm_6-cond_RA-TH.pdf?dl=0

I got bit with a TI data sheet 2 or 3 years ago, It was a LM4040, TI
had the pins reversed. Some jerk had swapped the pins in the Revision
I gave the Board guy. They were nice enough to fix it and bump the
revision after I sent an email to correct it.

Cheers

 

[Phil Hobbs]

On 5/16/19 9:44 PM, Winfield Hill wrote:

Kyocera 6200067012800 connector bottom-view
drawing, actually shows top view. Arrggh!
Discrepancy should have been obvious.

Examining actual part revealed the truth,
but only after placing the PCB order.

Ha, could mount connectors on the bottom.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/b1peq3xzwdph3us/006200067012800%2B_1mm_6-cond_RA-TH.pdf?dl=0

Connector drawings are uniformly terrible. Enclosure drawings are about
as bad. We use an IP67 diecast Bud box for some of our fire detection
products, and Bud's drawings are horrible. Fortunately, one of their
distributors, Polycase, has very nice .stp files for them, and also
offers very reasonably-priced machining, online instant quotes, and
other goodies.

For connectors we all have to get a few and measure them.

Cheers

Phil Hobbs

--
Dr Philip C D Hobbs
Principal Consultant
ElectroOptical Innovations LLC / Hobbs ElectroOptics
Optics, Electro-optics, Photonics, Analog Electronics
Briarcliff Manor NY 10510

http://electrooptical.net
http://hobbs-eo.com

 

[mpm]

Kyocera used to make a flip-phone.
Maybe they got carried away with the whole flip thing?

 

[Rick C]

On Thursday, May 16, 2019 at 9:44:22 PM UTC-4, Winfield Hill wrote:

Kyocera 6200067012800 connector bottom-view
drawing, actually shows top view. Arrggh!
Discrepancy should have been obvious.

Examining actual part revealed the truth,
but only after placing the PCB order.

Ha, could mount connectors on the bottom.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/b1peq3xzwdph3us/006200067012800%2B_1mm_6-cond_RA-TH.pdf?dl=0

I don't see anything on the drawing that would make me think this was the bottom view. What am I missing?

--

Rick C.

- Get 5,000 miles of free Supercharging
- Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209

 

[Rick C]

On Thursday, May 16, 2019 at 10:35:06 PM UTC-4, Martin Riddle wrote:

On Thu, 16 May 2019 19:24:25 -0700 (PDT), Rick C
gnuarm.deletethisbit@gmail.com> wrote:

On Thursday, May 16, 2019 at 9:44:22 PM UTC-4, Winfield Hill wrote:
Kyocera 6200067012800 connector bottom-view
drawing, actually shows top view. Arrggh!
Discrepancy should have been obvious.

Examining actual part revealed the truth,
but only after placing the PCB order.

Ha, could mount connectors on the bottom.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/b1peq3xzwdph3us/006200067012800%2B_1mm_6-cond_RA-TH.pdf?dl=0

I don't see anything on the drawing that would make me think this was the bottom view. What am I missing?

The dashed lines of the conector body. Thats what we use for bottom
mounted components on the top silk screen.

That seems pretty thin for indication of top/bottom in a drawing by someone else. Looking at the rest of the drawings I would have thought it was like the one at the top of the page, but in lieu of something explicit I would not have made any assumption.

--

Rick C.

+ Get 5,000 miles of free Supercharging
+ Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209

 

Winfield Hill <hill@rowland.harvard.edu> wrote in
news:qbl3l80ap6@drn.newsguy.com:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/b1peq3xzwdph3us/006200067012800%2B_1mm_6-
cond_RA-TH.pdf?dl=0

The note "insert direction" was no hint?

 

[Phil Hobbs]

On 5/17/19 12:03 AM, Rick C wrote:

On Thursday, May 16, 2019 at 10:35:06 PM UTC-4, Martin Riddle wrote:
On Thu, 16 May 2019 19:24:25 -0700 (PDT), Rick C
gnuarm.deletethisbit@gmail.com> wrote:

On Thursday, May 16, 2019 at 9:44:22 PM UTC-4, Winfield Hill
wrote:
Kyocera 6200067012800 connector bottom-view drawing, actually
shows top view. Arrggh! Discrepancy should have been obvious.

Examining actual part revealed the truth, but only after
placing the PCB order.

Ha, could mount connectors on the bottom.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/b1peq3xzwdph3us/006200067012800%2B_1mm_6-cond_RA-TH.pdf?dl=0



I don't see anything on the drawing that would make me think this was
the bottom view. What am I missing?

The American convention for showing views on a drawing is opposite to
the European one (of course).

The position of views in an American drawing is as though you were
sliding the part around inside a bowl. On that convention, Win's
right--the view he marked in red ought to be the top view.

In a European drawing, the views are positioned as though you were
sliding the parts on the _outside_ of the bowl (i.e. on a convex
surface). On that convention the marked view is the bottom.

It's always nice when manufacturers label a couple of the views so you
can figure out which convention is being used.

Cheers

Phil Hobbs

The dashed lines of the conector body. Thats what we use for
bottom mounted components on the top silk screen.

That seems pretty thin for indication of top/bottom in a drawing by
someone else. Looking at the rest of the drawings I would have
thought it was like the one at the top of the page, but in lieu of
something explicit I would not have made any assumption.

--
Dr Philip C D Hobbs
Principal Consultant
ElectroOptical Innovations LLC / Hobbs ElectroOptics
Optics, Electro-optics, Photonics, Analog Electronics
Briarcliff Manor NY 10510

http://electrooptical.net
http://hobbs-eo.com

 

[Winfield Hill]

Winfield Hill wrote...

Kyocera 6200067012800 connector bottom-view
drawing, actually shows top view. Arrggh!
Discrepancy should have been obvious.

Examining actual part revealed the truth,
but only after placing the PCB order.

Fortunately I found the problem in time;
the PCB house has not started the work,
and I can replace the file. Yes, as many
have pointed out, the view should have been
obvious. Going by the dark pin circles and
dashed outline, and ignoring its orientation,
was careless. Going ahead without checking
against an actual connector, was dangerous.


--
Thanks,
- Win

 

Winfield Hill <hill@rowland.harvard.edu> wrote in
news:qbm9gs02b2f@drn.newsguy.com:

Going ahead without checking
against an actual connector, was dangerous.

Dangerous? Well... financially, I suppose.

Yeah... a lesson we should all note in 'good practice' methodology.

But just like we know that doctors are just 'practicing' till they
get it right, We learn, sometimes only, through practice.

 

[Rick C]

On Friday, May 17, 2019 at 1:07:13 AM UTC-4, DecadentLinux...@decadence.org wrote:

Winfield Hill <hill@rowland.harvard.edu> wrote in
news:qbl3l80ap6@drn.newsguy.com:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/b1peq3xzwdph3us/006200067012800%2B_1mm_6-
cond_RA-TH.pdf?dl=0

The note "insert direction" was no hint?

That doesn't tell you a thing about which view you are looking at.

--

Rick C.

-- Get 5,000 miles of free Supercharging
-- Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209

 

[Rick C]

On Friday, May 17, 2019 at 4:50:11 AM UTC-4, Phil Hobbs wrote:

On 5/17/19 12:03 AM, Rick C wrote:
On Thursday, May 16, 2019 at 10:35:06 PM UTC-4, Martin Riddle wrote:
On Thu, 16 May 2019 19:24:25 -0700 (PDT), Rick C
gnuarm.deletethisbit@gmail.com> wrote:

On Thursday, May 16, 2019 at 9:44:22 PM UTC-4, Winfield Hill
wrote:
Kyocera 6200067012800 connector bottom-view drawing, actually
shows top view. Arrggh! Discrepancy should have been obvious.

Examining actual part revealed the truth, but only after
placing the PCB order.

Ha, could mount connectors on the bottom.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/b1peq3xzwdph3us/006200067012800%2B_1mm_6-cond_RA-TH.pdf?dl=0



I don't see anything on the drawing that would make me think this was
the bottom view. What am I missing?


The American convention for showing views on a drawing is opposite to
the European one (of course).

The position of views in an American drawing is as though you were
sliding the part around inside a bowl. On that convention, Win's
right--the view he marked in red ought to be the top view.

In a European drawing, the views are positioned as though you were
sliding the parts on the _outside_ of the bowl (i.e. on a convex
surface). On that convention the marked view is the bottom.

It's always nice when manufacturers label a couple of the views so you
can figure out which convention is being used.

I suppose conventions are like standards, everybody should have one.

But really, that was the first thing I looked at and it is easy to see this is not in force here since you can't get these drawings from either of the two conventions. The top and bottom drawings show the outline to be the same, so clearly a bowl is not involved. Either the top drawing and the bottom drawing are the same view, or the bottom drawing is flipped about the axis of symmetry. Without information I would have contacted the manufacturer.

--

Rick C.

-+ Get 5,000 miles of free Supercharging
-+ Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209

 

[Winfield Hill]

Rick C wrote...

Without information I would have contacted the manufacturer.

Yes, that's what I did, by purchasing connectors.

Actually, I like this connector. Even tho it's
smaller than the competition, it has a nifty
clamping action that (1) firmly holds the flex-
strip in place, and (2) eliminates contact wear,
when inserting or removing the flex-strip cable.


--
Thanks,
- Win

 

[Rick C]

On Friday, May 17, 2019 at 12:08:07 PM UTC-4, Winfield Hill wrote:

Rick C wrote...

Without information I would have contacted the manufacturer.

Yes, that's what I did, by purchasing connectors.

Actually, I like this connector. Even tho it's
smaller than the competition, it has a nifty
clamping action that (1) firmly holds the flex-
strip in place, and (2) eliminates contact wear,
when inserting or removing the flex-strip cable.

I'm glad you caught the issue in time.

--

Rick C.

+- Get 5,000 miles of free Supercharging
+- Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209

 

[Joe Chisolm]

On Thu, 16 May 2019 19:24:25 -0700, Rick C wrote:

On Thursday, May 16, 2019 at 9:44:22 PM UTC-4, Winfield Hill wrote:
Kyocera 6200067012800 connector bottom-view
drawing, actually shows top view. Arrggh!
Discrepancy should have been obvious.

Examining actual part revealed the truth, but only after placing the
PCB order.

Ha, could mount connectors on the bottom.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/b1peq3xzwdph3us/006200067012800%2B_1mm_6-
cond_RA-TH.pdf?dl=0

I don't see anything on the drawing that would make me think this was
the bottom view. What am I missing?

When I look at the sheet I see

top view with logo and datum pin (what normally is called pin 1)
marker

Next down is front view looking into the connector. Note datum
pin is still on the left and X moves to the right based on the
number of pins. To the right of this figure is a view looking
into the right side of the connector showing the latching action.

Next figure shows board layout looking from the top. Note
datum pin is still on the left

What I dont like about the far right figure showing the right side
view is the 6.3 dimension is from the flat face of the front to the
back of the connector. I dont see any dimension of how far the
corner "bumps" extend from the front face. Also I dont see a
dimension from the pin center (either front row or back row) to
the front of the face. Pin diameter shows 0.4 so I guess 6.3 - 0.2
would be close to the face from the CL of the back row.

They also dont have a dimension from the connector bottom or top
to the mated height of the ribbon cable.

--
Chisolm
Republic of Texas

 

[Rick C]

On Friday, May 17, 2019 at 3:39:32 PM UTC-4, Joe Chisolm wrote:

On Thu, 16 May 2019 19:24:25 -0700, Rick C wrote:

On Thursday, May 16, 2019 at 9:44:22 PM UTC-4, Winfield Hill wrote:
Kyocera 6200067012800 connector bottom-view
drawing, actually shows top view. Arrggh!
Discrepancy should have been obvious.

Examining actual part revealed the truth, but only after placing the
PCB order.

Ha, could mount connectors on the bottom.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/b1peq3xzwdph3us/006200067012800%2B_1mm_6-
cond_RA-TH.pdf?dl=0

I don't see anything on the drawing that would make me think this was
the bottom view. What am I missing?

When I look at the sheet I see

top view with logo and datum pin (what normally is called pin 1)
marker

Next down is front view looking into the connector. Note datum
pin is still on the left and X moves to the right based on the
number of pins. To the right of this figure is a view looking
into the right side of the connector showing the latching action.

Next figure shows board layout looking from the top. Note
datum pin is still on the left

What I dont like about the far right figure showing the right side
view is the 6.3 dimension is from the flat face of the front to the
back of the connector. I dont see any dimension of how far the
corner "bumps" extend from the front face.

The corner "bumps" as you call them are 6.6 mm from the reference point. Isn't that good enough?

Also I dont see a
dimension from the pin center (either front row or back row) to
the front of the face. Pin diameter shows 0.4 so I guess 6.3 - 0.2
would be close to the face from the CL of the back row.

Only approximate. The diagram does seem to show some space between the pin and the reference plane.

They also dont have a dimension from the connector bottom or top
to the mated height of the ribbon cable.

Same with many connectors. They give you the outside dimensions, but fail to provide info on how the connect to the other half so you can't mix brands with confidence.

--

Rick C.

++ Get 5,000 miles of free Supercharging
++ Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209

 

[Phil Hobbs]

On 5/17/19 11:58 AM, Rick C wrote:

On Friday, May 17, 2019 at 4:50:11 AM UTC-4, Phil Hobbs wrote:
On 5/17/19 12:03 AM, Rick C wrote:
On Thursday, May 16, 2019 at 10:35:06 PM UTC-4, Martin Riddle
wrote:
On Thu, 16 May 2019 19:24:25 -0700 (PDT), Rick C
gnuarm.deletethisbit@gmail.com> wrote:

On Thursday, May 16, 2019 at 9:44:22 PM UTC-4, Winfield Hill
wrote:
Kyocera 6200067012800 connector bottom-view drawing,
actually shows top view. Arrggh! Discrepancy should have
been obvious.

Examining actual part revealed the truth, but only after
placing the PCB order.

Ha, could mount connectors on the bottom.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/b1peq3xzwdph3us/006200067012800%2B_1mm_6-cond_RA-TH.pdf?dl=0





I don't see anything on the drawing that would make me think this
was
the bottom view. What am I missing?


The American convention for showing views on a drawing is opposite
to the European one (of course).

The position of views in an American drawing is as though you were
sliding the part around inside a bowl. On that convention, Win's
right--the view he marked in red ought to be the top view.

In a European drawing, the views are positioned as though you were
sliding the parts on the _outside_ of the bowl (i.e. on a convex
surface). On that convention the marked view is the bottom.

It's always nice when manufacturers label a couple of the views so
you can figure out which convention is being used.

I suppose conventions are like standards, everybody should have one.

But really, that was the first thing I looked at and it is easy to
see this is not in force here since you can't get these drawings from
either of the two conventions. The top and bottom drawings show the
outline to be the same, so clearly a bowl is not involved. Either
the top drawing and the bottom drawing are the same view, or the
bottom drawing is flipped about the axis of symmetry. Without
information I would have contacted the manufacturer.

You're right, the drawing is scrooched either way.

Cheers

Phil Hobbs


--
Dr Philip C D Hobbs
Principal Consultant
ElectroOptical Innovations LLC / Hobbs ElectroOptics
Optics, Electro-optics, Photonics, Analog Electronics
Briarcliff Manor NY 10510

http://electrooptical.net
http://hobbs-eo.com

 

[John S]

On 5/16/2019 9:20 PM, Phil Hobbs wrote:

On 5/16/19 9:44 PM, Winfield Hill wrote:
  Kyocera 6200067012800 connector bottom-view
  drawing, actually shows top view.  Arrggh!
  Discrepancy should have been obvious.

  Examining actual part revealed the truth,
  but only after placing the PCB order.

  Ha, could mount connectors on the bottom.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/b1peq3xzwdph3us/006200067012800%2B_1mm_6-cond_RA-TH.pdf?dl=0




Connector drawings are uniformly terrible.  Enclosure drawings are about
as bad.  We use an IP67 diecast Bud box for some of our fire detection
products, and Bud's drawings are horrible.  Fortunately, one of their
distributors, Polycase, has very nice .stp files for them, and also
offers very reasonably-priced machining, online instant quotes, and
other goodies.

As for Polycase, I am in the process of working with them right now on
an enclosure modification. Also, we plan to work with them in the future
for printing on the enclosure as well.

They are very professional, thorough, and diligent. They send a drawing
to you for your approval based on their understanding of your requirements.

The phone is answered by a live person. No directory tree. What more can
you ask?

I have no connection to them other than as a very satisfied customer.

John

For connectors we all have to get a few and measure them.

Cheers

Phil Hobbs

 

[Joe Chisolm]

On Fri, 17 May 2019 13:32:35 -0700, Rick C wrote:

On Friday, May 17, 2019 at 3:39:32 PM UTC-4, Joe Chisolm wrote:
On Thu, 16 May 2019 19:24:25 -0700, Rick C wrote:

On Thursday, May 16, 2019 at 9:44:22 PM UTC-4, Winfield Hill wrote:
Kyocera 6200067012800 connector bottom-view
drawing, actually shows top view. Arrggh!
Discrepancy should have been obvious.

Examining actual part revealed the truth, but only after placing
the PCB order.

Ha, could mount connectors on the bottom.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/b1peq3xzwdph3us/006200067012800%2B_1mm_6-
cond_RA-TH.pdf?dl=0

I don't see anything on the drawing that would make me think this was
the bottom view. What am I missing?

When I look at the sheet I see

top view with logo and datum pin (what normally is called pin 1) marker

Next down is front view looking into the connector. Note datum pin is
still on the left and X moves to the right based on the number of pins.
To the right of this figure is a view looking into the right side of
the connector showing the latching action.

Next figure shows board layout looking from the top. Note datum pin is
still on the left

What I dont like about the far right figure showing the right side view
is the 6.3 dimension is from the flat face of the front to the back of
the connector. I dont see any dimension of how far the corner "bumps"
extend from the front face.

The corner "bumps" as you call them are 6.6 mm from the reference point.
Isn't that good enough?

My mistake. I missed that on the upper figure.

Also I dont see a dimension from the pin center (either front row or
back row) to the front of the face. Pin diameter shows 0.4 so I guess
6.3 - 0.2 would be close to the face from the CL of the back row.

Only approximate. The diagram does seem to show some space between the
pin and the reference plane.


They also dont have a dimension from the connector bottom or top to the
mated height of the ribbon cable.

Same with many connectors. They give you the outside dimensions, but
fail to provide info on how the connect to the other half so you can't
mix brands with confidence.

--
Chisolm
Republic of Texas