Congress, President Reward Engineers For Their Support

[CFoley1064]

****************Quote From AP Article****************
More Visas For Foreign Workers

Congress is letting employers hire 20,000 more foreign high-tech workers under
a special visa program after businesses reached the annual ceiling on the first
day of the government's fiscal year.

Businesses are limited to hiring no more than 65,000 workers annually through
the H-1B visa program. They reached that figure in one day, Oct. 1, and
immediately began saying they would lose talented university graduates and
potential employees to competitors overseas.

In response, as part of the $388 billion spending bill passed over the weekend
and awaiting President Bush's signature, Congress is exempting from the limit
20,000 foreign students ...

....critics say the program allows businesses to fill jobs with cheaper foreign
labor. Those who use the program say they cannot find enough Americans with the
necessary math, science and engineering skills.

Dan Kane, a spokesman for the Homeland Security Department's Citizenship and
Immigration Services bureau, said the exemptions for foreign students will be
applicable this year. Rep. Lamar S. Smith (R-Tex.) and Sen. Saxby Chambliss
(R-Ga.) led the effort to include them in the spending bill.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A6204-2004Nov22.html

Another step on the road to making America the best place in the world to do
business.

Chris

 

[Jim Thompson]

On Tue, 23 Nov 2004 23:25:33 GMT, "Kryten"
<kryten_droid_obfusticator@ntlworld.com> wrote:

"CFoley1064" <cfoley1064@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20041123083920.06500.00000629@mb-m22.aol.com...

Congress is letting employers hire 20,000 more foreign high-tech workers
under
a special visa program after businesses reached the annual ceiling on the
first
day of the government's fiscal year.

I don't think this is an ethical way to tackle the problem.

A country fails to produce enough decent educated personnel from its own
population, then buys them off countries that have.

It's like the state saying "we've short-changed the public education system,
and now we're going to import foreign people to do the better paid jobs".

It isn't improving the lot of current US citizens, just giving a better lot
to other countries citizens and depleting their own country's intellectual
resources.

As engineers, surely we can think of a better solution?

You haven't been around a university recently?

Most of those "foreign high-tech workers" are US-educated.

The bill simply allows them to be hired at sub-standard wages.

The solution may be to forbid educating non-citizens in our
universities.

...Jim Thompson
--
| James E.Thompson, P.E. | mens |
| Analog Innovations, Inc. | et |
| Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems | manus |
| Phoenix, Arizona Voice480)460-2350 | |
| E-mail Address at Website Fax480)460-2142 | Brass Rat |
| http://www.analog-innovations.com | 1962 |

I love to cook with wine. Sometimes I even put it in the food.

 

[TheDoc]

"Jim Thompson" <thegreatone@example.com> wrote in message
news:16j7q05t4rahmm0csgjire6097s5rcsu0g@4ax.com...

On Tue, 23 Nov 2004 23:25:33 GMT, "Kryten"
kryten_droid_obfusticator@ntlworld.com> wrote:


"CFoley1064" <cfoley1064@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20041123083920.06500.00000629@mb-m22.aol.com...

Congress is letting employers hire 20,000 more foreign high-tech
workers
under
a special visa program after businesses reached the annual ceiling on
the
first
day of the government's fiscal year.

I don't think this is an ethical way to tackle the problem.

A country fails to produce enough decent educated personnel from its own
population, then buys them off countries that have.

It's like the state saying "we've short-changed the public education
system,
and now we're going to import foreign people to do the better paid jobs".

It isn't improving the lot of current US citizens, just giving a better
lot
to other countries citizens and depleting their own country's
intellectual
resources.

As engineers, surely we can think of a better solution?


You haven't been around a university recently?

Most of those "foreign high-tech workers" are US-educated.

The bill simply allows them to be hired at sub-standard wages.

Not the case.. most will be paid parity to market..

The solution may be to forbid educating non-citizens in our
universities.

This already exists.. just ignored.. $$$$$$$$$$ talk..
the rest walk...

...Jim Thompson
--
| James E.Thompson, P.E. | mens |
| Analog Innovations, Inc. | et |
| Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems | manus |
| Phoenix, Arizona Voice480)460-2350 | |
| E-mail Address at Website Fax480)460-2142 | Brass Rat |
| http://www.analog-innovations.com | 1962 |

I love to cook with wine. Sometimes I even put it in the food.

 

[Rolavine]

From: Jim Thompson

You haven't been around a university recently?

Most of those "foreign high-tech workers" are US-educated.

The bill simply allows them to be hired at sub-standard wages.

The solution may be to forbid educating non-citizens in our
universities.

I think your underestimating the Universities in India and China, you know they

can do education cheaper over there too. These overseas institutions are
growing at record rates while our own system is just crawling along.

The techie unemployment rate in my Sate (Oregon) is about 20%, without big
government contractors we are seeing production and design going overseas at a
record rate.

It is interesting though that so many of us can toast our own extinction.

Rocky

 

[Scott Stephens]

CFoley1064 wrote:

****************Quote From AP Article****************
More Visas For Foreign Workers

...critics say the program allows businesses to fill jobs with cheaper foreign
labor. Those who use the program say they cannot find enough Americans with the
necessary math, science and engineering skills.

American aristocrats don't want to pay American workers. One thing I
will never get over is seeing a damn engineering intern at Argonne,
being exploited for $7/hour, who knew less than I did, but I wasn't
allowed to do more than make cables. One engineer actually let me set
pots on a prototype I constructed for him. But after a summer of intern
hell, he'll make far more and have far better career prospects than I
with my EET degree.

And Argonne was full of foreigners. And the national labs constantly
bitch about traitors! They promote based on race. They import foreigners
to take jobs that could be done by citizens (had we not been
systematically attitude-rapped by years of degradation and
exploitation). And they wonder why they have to import loyal and
hard-working employees?

What comes around goes around. Let them import some foreigners to fight
there damn wars too!

--
Scott

**********************************

DIY Piezo-Gyro, PCB Drill Bot & More Soon!

http://home.comcast.net/~scottxs/

POLITICS, n.
A strife of interests masquerading as a contest of principles.
The conduct of public affairs for private advantage. - Ambrose Bierce

**********************************

 

[Pig Bladder]

On Tue, 23 Nov 2004 16:52:55 -0700, Jim Thompson wrote:

On Tue, 23 Nov 2004 23:25:33 GMT, "Kryten"
kryten_droid_obfusticator@ntlworld.com> wrote:


"CFoley1064" <cfoley1064@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20041123083920.06500.00000629@mb-m22.aol.com...

Congress is letting employers hire 20,000 more foreign high-tech workers
under
a special visa program after businesses reached the annual ceiling on the
first
day of the government's fiscal year.

I don't think this is an ethical way to tackle the problem.

A country fails to produce enough decent educated personnel from its own
population, then buys them off countries that have.

It's like the state saying "we've short-changed the public education system,
and now we're going to import foreign people to do the better paid jobs".

It isn't improving the lot of current US citizens, just giving a better lot
to other countries citizens and depleting their own country's intellectual
resources.

As engineers, surely we can think of a better solution?


You haven't been around a university recently?

Most of those "foreign high-tech workers" are US-educated.

The bill simply allows them to be hired at sub-standard wages.

The solution may be to forbid educating non-citizens in our
universities.

No, the answer is to see the rule-makers for what they are, and quit
submitting our wills to them.
--
The Pig Bladder From Uranus, still waiting for
some hot babe to ask what my favorite planet is.

 

[Paul Hovnanian P.E.]

CFoley1064 wrote:

****************Quote From AP Article****************
More Visas For Foreign Workers

Congress is letting employers hire 20,000 more foreign high-tech workers under
a special visa program after businesses reached the annual ceiling on the first
day of the government's fiscal year.

Businesses are limited to hiring no more than 65,000 workers annually through
the H-1B visa program. They reached that figure in one day, Oct. 1, and
immediately began saying they would lose talented university graduates and
potential employees to competitors overseas.

In response, as part of the $388 billion spending bill passed over the weekend
and awaiting President Bush's signature, Congress is exempting from the limit
20,000 foreign students ...

...critics say the program allows businesses to fill jobs with cheaper foreign
labor. Those who use the program say they cannot find enough Americans with the
necessary math, science and engineering skills.

Dan Kane, a spokesman for the Homeland Security Department's Citizenship and
Immigration Services bureau, said the exemptions for foreign students will be
applicable this year. Rep. Lamar S. Smith (R-Tex.) and Sen. Saxby Chambliss
(R-Ga.) led the effort to include them in the spending bill.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A6204-2004Nov22.html

Another step on the road to making America the best place in the world to do
business.

The American businesses are going to get bit by their own greed. I've
been doing a little consulting for an Indian A&E firm. Most of their
licensed engineers and architects got their experience (and licenses)
doing grunt work for American firms. Now, they've gon back home and are
preparing to compete with thir former employers.

They aren't stupid. Even though they can get competent engineering help
for less than $10/hour in India, they are pursuing some cost savings
process improvements that would enable them to compete even if salaries
were at par with the US.

I have no sympathy for US firms that could have adopted similar
improvements but did nothing other than bitch about labor costs.

--
Paul Hovnanian mailtoaul@Hovnanian.com
------------------------------------------------------------------
Who is General Failure and why is he reading my hard drive?

 

[Pig Bladder]

On Wed, 24 Nov 2004 05:29:11 +0000, CFoley1064 wrote:
....

Let's also get away from the Heritage Foundation arguments (which, as
always, are actually meant to further the goals of business rather than
what's best for America or its citizens) and take a look at what's
^^^^^^
really happening.
^^^^^^

If this were ...
^^

Well, make up your mind! Are you talking about what's really happening, or
hypothetical scenaria?
--
The Pig Bladder From Uranus, still waiting for
some hot babe to ask what my favorite planet is.

 

[Scott Stephens]

Kryten wrote:

I don't think this is an ethical way to tackle the problem.

There is, but it involves the aristocracy relinquishing wealth and
power, and reward merit, rather than dumbing it down so it doesn't
compete against old-money corruption.

A country fails to produce enough decent educated personnel from its own
population, then buys them off countries that have.

True. School is a popularity contest, and popularity make popular
people, not people that can deal with Nature.

It's like the state saying "we've short-changed the public education system,
and now we're going to import foreign people to do the better paid jobs".

Let them import warriors too, because soon the military is going to run
out of suckers that fight for aristocrats that cheat and loot them.

It isn't improving the lot of current US citizens, just giving a better lot
to other countries citizens and depleting their own country's intellectual
resources.

The corrupt American aristocracy is doing corrupt foreign aristocrats
the favor of removing indigenous competition!

As engineers, surely we can think of a better solution?

Work your own business, even for less money. Let the corrupt kleptocrasy
collapse under the weight of its own evil.

--
Scott

**********************************

DIY Piezo-Gyro, PCB Drill Bot & More Soon!

http://home.comcast.net/~scottxs/

POLITICS, n.
A strife of interests masquerading as a contest of principles.
The conduct of public affairs for private advantage. - Ambrose Bierce

**********************************