Comparator Substitution

[Ron M.]

I have been told that if you leave feedback off of a op amp that it
will act similar to a comparator. Is this actually true?? THANKS.

 

[Chris]

On Sep 18, 8:08 pm, "Ron M." <strmbr...@hotmail.com> wrote:

I have been told that if you leave feedback off of a op amp that it
will act similar to a comparator. Is this actually true?? THANKS.

Pretty much, yes. But there are the details, of course.

First off, most comparators like the LM339 have open collector-type
outputs, so they require a pullup resistor at the output. Op amps
dont. In fact, some op amps like the LM324 require a *pulldown*
resistor in order for the output to reach the full range.

Second, since a comparator's output voltage will be Vcc (the pullup,
remember) when high and about 0.1V to 0.4V when low (a saturated
output transistor), the output can be read by all modern logic
families. The typical op amp output has an analog amplifier output
that will typically only go within a volt or two of the power supply
rail. So an op amp being used as a comparator with a 5V supply might
have a low output of 1.2V or so, and a high output of 3.5V or so.
With a pulldown, the LM324 can go almost down to 0V, but still has the
high end limitation. Maybe not so good.

Also, since most op amps have internal frequency compensation built
in, their slew rate (changing states from a logic "0" to a logic "1")
will be really slow in comparison with a comparator.

Many times, an op amp can be used in place of a comparator where
switching speed and stringent logic level outputs are not required.
In fact, an op amp can have some advantages. It is much less likely
to break into oscillations when the voltage levels of the two inputs
are very close to each other. Also, if you only need one comparator
and have one or two spare op amps on a quad package like an LM324,
it's very tempting to try.

The best thing to do is look at a couple of data sheets, and see some
of the differences in specs, Ron.

http://www3.national.com/ds.cgi/LM/LM124.pdf
http://www.national.com/ds.cgi/LM/LM139.pdf

Good luck
Chris

 

[Jamie]

Ron M. wrote:

I have been told that if you leave feedback off of a op amp that it
will act similar to a comparator. Is this actually true?? THANKS.

Basically, yes.

--
"I'm never wrong, once i thought i was, but was mistaken"
Real Programmers Do things like this.
http://webpages.charter.net/jamie_5

 

[Ron M.]

On Sep 18, 9:28 pm, Chris <cfoley1...@yahoo.com> wrote:

On Sep 18, 8:08 pm, "Ron M." <strmbr...@hotmail.com> wrote:

I have been told that if you leave feedback off of a op amp that it
will act similar to a comparator. Is this actually true?? THANKS.

Pretty much, yes. But there are the details, of course.

First off, most comparators like the LM339 have open collector-type
outputs, so they require a pullup resistor at the output. Op amps
dont. In fact, some op amps like the LM324 require a *pulldown*
resistor in order for the output to reach the full range.

Second, since a comparator's output voltage will be Vcc (the pullup,
remember) when high and about 0.1V to 0.4V when low (a saturated
output transistor), the output can be read by all modern logic
families. The typical op amp output has an analog amplifier output
that will typically only go within a volt or two of the power supply
rail. So an op amp being used as a comparator with a 5V supply might
have a low output of 1.2V or so, and a high output of 3.5V or so.
With a pulldown, the LM324 can go almost down to 0V, but still has the
high end limitation. Maybe not so good.

Also, since most op amps have internal frequency compensation built
in, their slew rate (changing states from a logic "0" to a logic "1")
will be really slow in comparison with a comparator.

Many times, an op amp can be used in place of a comparator where
switching speed and stringent logic level outputs are not required.
In fact, an op amp can have some advantages. It is much less likely
to break into oscillations when the voltage levels of the two inputs
are very close to each other. Also, if you only need one comparator
and have one or two spare op amps on a quad package like an LM324,
it's very tempting to try.

The best thing to do is look at a couple of data sheets, and see some
of the differences in specs, Ron.

http://www3.national.com/ds.cgi/LM/LM124.pdfhttp://www.national.com/ds.cgi/LM/LM139.pdf

Good luck
Chris

EXCELLENT POST!! Just the information that I needed. Luckily the
application that I have in mind is not frequency sensitive. THANKS
MUCH.

 

[Traver]

One more thing to remember is that not all op amps are meant to be
saturated (railed high or low). Some of them will allow only one amp
in a multi package to be saturated. Just look at the data sheet and
the ones that can't remain in saturation will usually tell you.
Unfortunately the ones that are able to be used as comparators don't
explicitly tell you. Also, there are many op amp outputs that go to
ground as well as the VCC rail.

 

[Ron M.]

On Sep 19, 8:29 am, Traver <tra...@travenue.net> wrote:

One more thing to remember is that not all op amps are meant to be
saturated (railed high or low). Some of them will allow only one amp
in a multi package to be saturated. Just look at the data sheet and
the ones that can't remain in saturation will usually tell you.
Unfortunately the ones that are able to be used as comparators don't
explicitly tell you. Also, there are many op amp outputs that go to
ground as well as the VCC rail.

I'm using a 324. Just downloaded the datasheet and will check it out.
Next time I won't wait until the very last minute to design and build
and will actually get a real LM339 to use. It was stupid to wait so
long prior to doing the project.THANKS.