Compact FPGA Board?

D

Daragoth

Guest
Hi, I have just began working with FPGA devices and have been trying
to apply them in real-world situations. For my first project I need a
very small, relatively inexpensive "bare-bones" type FPGA board. But
I have been having difficulty finding one. I just need one with the
following features (please tell me if I'm missing anything vital):

-FPGA device with at least 15,000 usable gates (more would be
preferable). I only need a small number of user IOs, so that
shouldn't be an issue at all. The device doesn't need to be very fast
either, as it will be running only at around 4 MHz.
-clock with only around 4 MHz frequency range... higher isn't a
problem however.
-in-circuit reprogrammable non-volatile memory device for storing the
FPGA's configuration data.
-The most important thing is that it all fits within a 40 mm x 30 mm x
10 mm volume or less.

More features than this obviously isn't a problem, provided it doesn't
make the board larger than the specified volume. Do boards like this
exist for purchase, or will I have to build it myself? I am
inexperienced in the area of designing PCBs so I would prefer to buy
it already made. Is it even possible to build this device in such a
small volume? Thanks for your help.


Sincerely,
Darien A. Gothia
 
"Daragoth" <daragoth@kuririnmail.com> wrote in message
news:317379a8.0406302118.32829ee1@posting.google.com...
Hi, I have just began working with FPGA devices and have been trying
to apply them in real-world situations. For my first project I need a
very small, relatively inexpensive "bare-bones" type FPGA board. But
I have been having difficulty finding one. I just need one with the
following features (please tell me if I'm missing anything vital):

-FPGA device with at least 15,000 usable gates (more would be
preferable). I only need a small number of user IOs, so that
shouldn't be an issue at all. The device doesn't need to be very fast
either, as it will be running only at around 4 MHz.
-clock with only around 4 MHz frequency range... higher isn't a
problem however.
-in-circuit reprogrammable non-volatile memory device for storing the
FPGA's configuration data.
-The most important thing is that it all fits within a 40 mm x 30 mm x
10 mm volume or less.

More features than this obviously isn't a problem, provided it doesn't
make the board larger than the specified volume. Do boards like this
exist for purchase, or will I have to build it myself? I am
inexperienced in the area of designing PCBs so I would prefer to buy
it already made. Is it even possible to build this device in such a
small volume? Thanks for your help.
Click to expand...
I was thinking of designing something like that, with an Altera Cyclone
EP1C100 (2,910 LEs) and an EPCS1 configuration device. I don't know how many
gates 2,910 LEs is, but it might be enough for you.

Leon
--
Leon Heller, G1HSM
http://www.geocities.com/leon_heller
 
Daragoth wrote:
Hi, I have just began working with FPGA devices and have been trying
to apply them in real-world situations. For my first project I need a
very small, relatively inexpensive "bare-bones" type FPGA board. But
I have been having difficulty finding one. I just need one with the
following features (please tell me if I'm missing anything vital):

-FPGA device with at least 15,000 usable gates (more would be
preferable). I only need a small number of user IOs, so that
shouldn't be an issue at all. The device doesn't need to be very fast
either, as it will be running only at around 4 MHz.
-clock with only around 4 MHz frequency range... higher isn't a
problem however.
-in-circuit reprogrammable non-volatile memory device for storing the
FPGA's configuration data.
-The most important thing is that it all fits within a 40 mm x 30 mm x
10 mm volume or less.

More features than this obviously isn't a problem, provided it doesn't
make the board larger than the specified volume. Do boards like this
exist for purchase, or will I have to build it myself? I am
inexperienced in the area of designing PCBs so I would prefer to buy
it already made. Is it even possible to build this device in such a
small volume? Thanks for your help.


Sincerely,
Darien A. Gothia
Click to expand...
My company can do this work very quickly. PCBs - FPGA configuration -
DC/DC. Spartan-II or Spartan-IIE would be great for.

Do you need onboard DC regulators ?
Which kind connectors?

Laurent
www.amontec.com
 
"Leon Heller" <leon_heller@hotmail.com> wrote in message news:<40e3dd69$0$291$cc9e4d1f@news-text.dial.pipex.com>...
"Daragoth" <daragoth@kuririnmail.com> wrote in message
news:317379a8.0406302118.32829ee1@posting.google.com...
Hi, I have just began working with FPGA devices and have been trying
to apply them in real-world situations. For my first project I need a
very small, relatively inexpensive "bare-bones" type FPGA board. But
I have been having difficulty finding one. I just need one with the
following features (please tell me if I'm missing anything vital):

-FPGA device with at least 15,000 usable gates (more would be
preferable). I only need a small number of user IOs, so that
shouldn't be an issue at all. The device doesn't need to be very fast
either, as it will be running only at around 4 MHz.
-clock with only around 4 MHz frequency range... higher isn't a
problem however.
-in-circuit reprogrammable non-volatile memory device for storing the
FPGA's configuration data.
-The most important thing is that it all fits within a 40 mm x 30 mm x
10 mm volume or less.

More features than this obviously isn't a problem, provided it doesn't
make the board larger than the specified volume. Do boards like this
exist for purchase, or will I have to build it myself? I am
inexperienced in the area of designing PCBs so I would prefer to buy
it already made. Is it even possible to build this device in such a
small volume? Thanks for your help.

I was thinking of designing something like that, with an Altera Cyclone
EP1C100 (2,910 LEs) and an EPCS1 configuration device. I don't know how many
gates 2,910 LEs is, but it might be enough for you.

Leon
Hi just my 0.02$ worth of tought
Click to expand...
If I remember my gate counting skill regarding Altera and LE's 15k
Gates are roughly 750LE's. Marketing will make it any number:). But to
be serious even a Cyclone EP1C3 in a TQFP package is 16X16mm in size
add the small config mem to that and probably some power supplies
(3.3V and 1.5V) and the board starts to grow. One possible solution is
to use the new MAX2 family, the EPM1270 in TQFP144 is 22x22 mm has
1270 LE's (more than 15k gates) don't need config mem and has also a
internal (not so accurate, but spect above 4MHz) clock. Furthermore
only needs one power supply (3.3V). On the power side it is also less
power hungry and you can probably do with a linear regulator and not
use switch mode power (witch is a pest when coming to size, those darn
inductors and caps are real board eaters).

Cheers
Fredrik
 
daragoth@kuririnmail.com (Daragoth) wrote in message news:<317379a8.0406302118.32829ee1@posting.google.com>...
Hi, I have just began working with FPGA devices and have been trying
to apply them in real-world situations. For my first project I need a
very small, relatively inexpensive "bare-bones" type FPGA board. But
I have been having difficulty finding one. I just need one with the
following features (please tell me if I'm missing anything vital):

-FPGA device with at least 15,000 usable gates (more would be
preferable). I only need a small number of user IOs, so that
shouldn't be an issue at all. The device doesn't need to be very fast
either, as it will be running only at around 4 MHz.
-clock with only around 4 MHz frequency range... higher isn't a
problem however.
-in-circuit reprogrammable non-volatile memory device for storing the
FPGA's configuration data.
-The most important thing is that it all fits within a 40 mm x 30 mm x
10 mm volume or less.

More features than this obviously isn't a problem, provided it doesn't
make the board larger than the specified volume. Do boards like this
exist for purchase, or will I have to build it myself? I am
inexperienced in the area of designing PCBs so I would prefer to buy
it already made. Is it even possible to build this device in such a
small volume? Thanks for your help.


Sincerely,
Darien A. Gothia
Click to expand...
Sounds suspiciously like credit card sz of which armoid comes to mind.

http://armoid.com/store/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=28&osCsid=4f58554bddd3dd7b0e86fd94df0b2808

I have seen a no of weeny size boards but can't recall where, the low
cost guys often have little formats

xess, burch, etc

http://www.fpga-faq.com/FPGA_Boards.shtml

regards

johnjakson_usa_com
 
"www.amontec.com" <laurent.gauch@DELETE_CAPSamontec.com> wrote in message news:<40E3F58B.5070507@DELETE_CAPSamontec.com>...
My company can do this work very quickly. PCBs - FPGA configuration -
DC/DC. Spartan-II or Spartan-IIE would be great for.

Do you need onboard DC regulators ?
Which kind connectors?

Laurent
www.amontec.com
Click to expand...
Well, the board will be receiving power from another board, so I don't
beleive DC regulators will be necessary. I was planning on making
connections just using single wires, so whatever type of connectors
work best for that would work.

What kind of pricing would I be looking at for a custom-made board?
Like I said, I am looking for a relatively inexpensive solution.
Thanks.


Sincerely,
Darien A. Gothia
 
Hi, I have just began working with FPGA devices and have been trying
to apply them in real-world situations. For my first project I need a
very small, relatively inexpensive "bare-bones" type FPGA board. But
I have been having difficulty finding one. I just need one with the
following features (please tell me if I'm missing anything vital):

-FPGA device with at least 15,000 usable gates (more would be
preferable). I only need a small number of user IOs, so that
shouldn't be an issue at all. The device doesn't need to be very fast
either, as it will be running only at around 4 MHz.
-clock with only around 4 MHz frequency range... higher isn't a
problem however.
-in-circuit reprogrammable non-volatile memory device for storing the
FPGA's configuration data.
-The most important thing is that it all fits within a 40 mm x 30 mm x
10 mm volume or less.
Click to expand...
I didn't check the specs, but I saw some tiny FPGA boards
at www.fpga4fun.com

J.
 
"Daragoth" <daragoth@kuririnmail.com> wrote in message
news:317379a8.0406302118.32829ee1@posting.google.com...

-The most important thing is that it all fits within a 40 mm x 30
mm x 10 mm volume or less.
Click to expand...
Should be possible. The boards here:

http://www.rockylogic.com/files/AntGuts_LoRes.jpg

are 50mm x 30mm. The one on the left has an XC2S50E on the reverse
side, and the power supply is a switcher. The other board has an
XC2S30 on the reverse side, and a linear power supply.
 
We have some products a bit like this appearing shortly. If you want to let
us know your requirements and quantities contact us through one the emails
listed on our website and we can discuss it further offline.

John Adair
Enterpoint Ltd. - Home of Broaddown2. The Ultimate Spartan3 Development
Board.
http://www.enterpoint.co.uk

This message is the personal opinion of the sender and not that necessarily
that of Enterpoint Ltd.. Readers should make their own evaluation of the
facts. No responsibility for error or inaccuracy is accepted.

"Daragoth" <daragoth@kuririnmail.com> wrote in message
news:317379a8.0406302118.32829ee1@posting.google.com...
Hi, I have just began working with FPGA devices and have been trying
to apply them in real-world situations. For my first project I need a
very small, relatively inexpensive "bare-bones" type FPGA board. But
I have been having difficulty finding one. I just need one with the
following features (please tell me if I'm missing anything vital):

-FPGA device with at least 15,000 usable gates (more would be
preferable). I only need a small number of user IOs, so that
shouldn't be an issue at all. The device doesn't need to be very fast
either, as it will be running only at around 4 MHz.
-clock with only around 4 MHz frequency range... higher isn't a
problem however.
-in-circuit reprogrammable non-volatile memory device for storing the
FPGA's configuration data.
-The most important thing is that it all fits within a 40 mm x 30 mm x
10 mm volume or less.

More features than this obviously isn't a problem, provided it doesn't
make the board larger than the specified volume. Do boards like this
exist for purchase, or will I have to build it myself? I am
inexperienced in the area of designing PCBs so I would prefer to buy
it already made. Is it even possible to build this device in such a
small volume? Thanks for your help.


Sincerely,
Darien A. Gothia
Click to expand...
 
only needs one power supply (3.3V). On the power side it is also less
power hungry and you can probably do with a linear regulator and not
use switch mode power (witch is a pest when coming to size, those darn
inductors and caps are real board eaters).
Click to expand...
Isn't linear require a heat dissapiation area? So, if a regulator is a
consern, a variant with external regulator may me considered. Right?
 
"Jacek Wawrzaszek" <no.mail@no.spam> wrote in message news:<cc1qvf$jmd$1@atlantis.news.tpi.pl>...
I didn't check the specs, but I saw some tiny FPGA boards
at www.fpga4fun.com

J.
Click to expand...
Yeah, I looked at those, but they are just a little too big for what I
need unfortunately.

-DAG
 
johnjakson@yahoo.com (john jakson) wrote in message news:<adb3971c.0407010714.565d691f@posting.google.com>...
Sounds suspiciously like credit card sz of which armoid comes to mind.

http://armoid.com/store/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=28&osCsid=4f58554bddd3dd7b0e86fd94df0b2808
Click to expand...

That's close to what I need, but it is still a bit too large
unfortunately. The area I need is actually about 1/4th that of a
credit card.


I have seen a no of weeny size boards but can't recall where, the low
cost guys often have little formats

xess, burch, etc

http://www.fpga-faq.com/FPGA_Boards.shtml
Click to expand...

Yeah, I had gone through every board within my price range on that
page... none of them were small enough. The only ones I've seen so
far within the dimensions I require were the UC1394a series of PLCCs
by Traquair.

http://www.traquair.com/catalog/ultracompact.products.html

Definately the right size, even with more features than I need, but I
was unable to find any kind of pricing on it.

-DAG
 
"Tim" <tim@rockylogic.com.nooospam.com> wrote in message news:<cc234l$2on$1$830fa7b3@news.demon.co.uk>...
Should be possible. The boards here:

http://www.rockylogic.com/files/AntGuts_LoRes.jpg

are 50mm x 30mm. The one on the left has an XC2S50E on the reverse
side, and the power supply is a switcher. The other board has an
XC2S30 on the reverse side, and a linear power supply.
Click to expand...
Those look very much like what I need. If the plastic on the outside
was removed it could perhaps fit within the dimensions I listed. Are
they for sale? I tried looking on the website you posted, but
couldn't find any information in the matter. More information would
be greatly appreciated. Thanks.

-DAG
 
"Daragoth" <daragoth@kuririnmail.com> wrote in message
news:317379a8.0407162157.16a0e979@posting.google.com...
"Tim" <tim@rockylogic.com.nooospam.com> wrote in message
news:<cc234l$2on$1$830fa7b3@news.demon.co.uk>...

Should be possible. The boards here:

http://www.rockylogic.com/files/AntGuts_LoRes.jpg

are 50mm x 30mm. The one on the left has an XC2S50E on the reverse
side, and the power supply is a switcher. The other board has an
XC2S30 on the reverse side, and a linear power supply.

Those look very much like what I need. If the plastic on the outside
was removed it could perhaps fit within the dimensions I listed. Are
they for sale? I tried looking on the website you posted, but
couldn't find any information in the matter. More information would
be greatly appreciated. Thanks.
Click to expand...

Prices are here:

http://www.rockylogic.com/


Leon
--
Leon Heller, G1HSM
http://www.geocities.com/leon_heller
 
"Tim" <tim@rockylogic.com.nooospam.com> wrote in message news:<cc234l$2on$1$830fa7b3@news.demon.co.uk>...
"Daragoth" <daragoth@kuririnmail.com> wrote in message
news:317379a8.0406302118.32829ee1@posting.google.com...

-The most important thing is that it all fits within a 40 mm x 30
mm x 10 mm volume or less.

Should be possible. The boards here:

http://www.rockylogic.com/files/AntGuts_LoRes.jpg

are 50mm x 30mm. The one on the left has an XC2S50E on the reverse
side, and the power supply is a switcher. The other board has an
XC2S30 on the reverse side, and a linear power supply.
Click to expand...
This one is a little larger (51mm x 44mm) but also less expensive:

http://shop.trenz-electronic.de/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=43

It was designed in a way that you can cut off one of the B2B
connectors to obtain an area of about 51mm x 31mm and still have 60
user I/Os.

Kolja Sulimma
 
news@sulimma.de (Kolja Sulimma) wrote in message news:<b890a7a.0407190943.4aa1f25c@posting.google.com>...
This one is a little larger (51mm x 44mm) but also less expensive:

http://shop.trenz-electronic.de/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=43

It was designed in a way that you can cut off one of the B2B
connectors to obtain an area of about 51mm x 31mm and still have 60
user I/Os.

Kolja Sulimma
Click to expand...
Thanks for the link Kolja, that was one of the smallest ones I've seen
for sale with such a large gate count. But I only have a couple
millimeters leeway from the 40mm x 30mm x 10mm dimensions so I won't
be able to use it, unfortunately.

Do you know of any smaller boards than this one?

-DAG
 
Well it seems that the board I need doesn't exist or at least no one
knows of one and therefore I will need to design it myself. Like I
said earlier, I don't know much about PCB design, so if someone could
refer me to a good guide that would be great. Also, what software
would be best to use considering what I require for my PCB (40x30x10
mm, flash ROM, oscillator, FPGA), also consider I'm running Windows
XP. Thanks for any help.

-DAG
 
I know (from my own experience) that it is tempting to design something
small and neat. But I have also seen many failures when there just was not
enough room to complete the design properly.
My advice is: Think twice ( or thrice) before committing to a very tight
footprint.
Peter Alfke
===================
From: daragoth@kuririnmail.com (Daragoth)
Organization: http://groups.google.com
Newsgroups: comp.arch.fpga
Date: 2 Aug 2004 15:49:18 -0700
Subject: Re: Compact FPGA Board?

Well it seems that the board I need doesn't exist or at least no one
knows of one and therefore I will need to design it myself. Like I
said earlier, I don't know much about PCB design, so if someone could
refer me to a good guide that would be great. Also, what software
would be best to use considering what I require for my PCB (40x30x10
mm, flash ROM, oscillator, FPGA), also consider I'm running Windows
XP. Thanks for any help.

-DAG
Click to expand...
 
Daragoth wrote:
Well it seems that the board I need doesn't exist or at least no one
knows of one and therefore I will need to design it myself. Like I
said earlier, I don't know much about PCB design, so if someone could
refer me to a good guide that would be great. Also, what software
would be best to use considering what I require for my PCB (40x30x10
mm, flash ROM, oscillator, FPGA), also consider I'm running Windows
XP. Thanks for any help.

-DAG
Click to expand...
Did you look at the ones at www.quickcores.com - they are smaller than
your target size ?
-jg
 
On 2 Aug 2004 15:49:18 -0700, daragoth@kuririnmail.com (Daragoth) wrote:
Well it seems that the board I need doesn't exist or at least no one
knows of one and therefore I will need to design it myself. Like I
said earlier, I don't know much about PCB design, so if someone could
refer me to a good guide that would be great.
Click to expand...
try http://alternatezone.com/electronics/files/PCBDesignTutorialRevA.pdf

Also, what software
would be best to use considering what I require for my PCB (40x30x10
mm, flash ROM, oscillator, FPGA), also consider I'm running Windows
XP. Thanks for any help.
Click to expand...
You could try this freeware version:

http://www.cadsoft.de/freeware.htm

-DAG
Click to expand...
Philip



Philip Freidin
Fliptronics
 
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