Clogged laptop heat pipe and fan

[Jeff Liebermann]

HP Envy m6 laptop (with AMD A10 processor), which arrive with a bad
case of overheating. Here's what the radiator grill looked like after
I tore apart the laptop to clean out the filth:
http://802.11junk.com/jeffl/pics/repair/HP%20Envy%20m6%20clogged%20fan/slides/clogged_fan.html
That's about 50% clogged. It took about 45 mins to overheat and shut
down in self defense. The owner didn't really notice that there was
an overheating problem, but did notice that the machine seemed to run
slower when hot. I certainly noticed when I tried to do an image
backup for 100 GBytes of kids games and found that it overheated and
shut down in the middle of the backup (3 times). Note that the
picture was AFTER I had hit the fan with my 60 psi air hose from every
conceivable angle to try and clear out the crud. No luck.

Here's what I had to do to the laptop to clean it out:
http://802.11junk.com/jeffl/pics/repair/HP%20Envy%20m6%20clogged%20fan/slides/HP%20Envy%20m6%20A10%20CPU.html
General lack of easy maintenance features is one reason I don't like
HP products.

The real problem is the mechanical design. The grill on the heat pipe
is made for maximum cooling, not minimum filth accumulation. I did an
experiment once with some dog hair clippings (don't ask) to see what
really happens when a laptop sucks in short hair cuttings. The long
hairs are blocked by the small holes in the grill work. The dust goes
right through and out the exhaust port. However, tiny hair fragments
between about 4 to 6 mm go through the holes, through fan, and get
jammed up against the radiator grill. Initially, most of these short
hairs went right through, but as the few that got stuck increased,
more and more began to get caught until air flow was constricted to
about 30% of maximum. It happened quite fast and was impressive to
watch through a clear plastic fake cover. (I should do a YouTube
video). After the test, I found that I could easily blow out most of
the hair because there was no grease or goo to hold the fur ball in
place. The laptop in the photo was possibly used near something that
produced greasy fumes (kitchen or oil burning furnace). It took about
3 years to look like the photo. I forgot to take a photo of the fan.
It was fairly clean except for greasy dirt stuck to the blades. I
could hear the fan struggling, but it was against the back pressure,
not friction from the filth. Again, the picture was AFTER I had blown
out the laptop with 60 PSI compressed air from my blow gun in both
directions.


--
Jeff Liebermann jeffl@cruzio.com
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

 

"They all do that"

 

[DaveC]

On 7 Aug 2015, avagadro7@gmail.com wrote
(in article<577164d5-b4a3-4ff9-bd47-245dcb381b23@googlegroups.com&gt:

> "They all do that"

Actually, they all *do* (in time)…

 

[Cydrome Leader]

Jeff Liebermann <jeffl@cruzio.com> wrote:

HP Envy m6 laptop (with AMD A10 processor), which arrive with a bad
case of overheating. Here's what the radiator grill looked like after
I tore apart the laptop to clean out the filth:
http://802.11junk.com/jeffl/pics/repair/HP%20Envy%20m6%20clogged%20fan/slides/clogged_fan.html
That's about 50% clogged. It took about 45 mins to overheat and shut
down in self defense. The owner didn't really notice that there was
an overheating problem, but did notice that the machine seemed to run
slower when hot. I certainly noticed when I tried to do an image
backup for 100 GBytes of kids games and found that it overheated and
shut down in the middle of the backup (3 times). Note that the
picture was AFTER I had hit the fan with my 60 psi air hose from every
conceivable angle to try and clear out the crud. No luck.

Here's what I had to do to the laptop to clean it out:
http://802.11junk.com/jeffl/pics/repair/HP%20Envy%20m6%20clogged%20fan/slides/HP%20Envy%20m6%20A10%20CPU.html
General lack of easy maintenance features is one reason I don't like
HP products.

The real problem is the mechanical design. The grill on the heat pipe
is made for maximum cooling, not minimum filth accumulation. I did an
experiment once with some dog hair clippings (don't ask) to see what

ha, nice test.

I recall an old stale cigar being used to test airflow though audio amps
at one shop.

 

[N_Cook]

On 08/08/2015 03:40, Jeff Liebermann wrote:

HP Envy m6 laptop (with AMD A10 processor), which arrive with a bad
case of overheating. Here's what the radiator grill looked like after
I tore apart the laptop to clean out the filth:
http://802.11junk.com/jeffl/pics/repair/HP%20Envy%20m6%20clogged%20fan/slides/clogged_fan.html
That's about 50% clogged. It took about 45 mins to overheat and shut
down in self defense. The owner didn't really notice that there was
an overheating problem, but did notice that the machine seemed to run
slower when hot. I certainly noticed when I tried to do an image
backup for 100 GBytes of kids games and found that it overheated and
shut down in the middle of the backup (3 times). Note that the
picture was AFTER I had hit the fan with my 60 psi air hose from every
conceivable angle to try and clear out the crud. No luck.

Here's what I had to do to the laptop to clean it out:
http://802.11junk.com/jeffl/pics/repair/HP%20Envy%20m6%20clogged%20fan/slides/HP%20Envy%20m6%20A10%20CPU.html
General lack of easy maintenance features is one reason I don't like
HP products.

The real problem is the mechanical design. The grill on the heat pipe
is made for maximum cooling, not minimum filth accumulation. I did an
experiment once with some dog hair clippings (don't ask) to see what
really happens when a laptop sucks in short hair cuttings. The long
hairs are blocked by the small holes in the grill work. The dust goes
right through and out the exhaust port. However, tiny hair fragments
between about 4 to 6 mm go through the holes, through fan, and get
jammed up against the radiator grill. Initially, most of these short
hairs went right through, but as the few that got stuck increased,
more and more began to get caught until air flow was constricted to
about 30% of maximum. It happened quite fast and was impressive to
watch through a clear plastic fake cover. (I should do a YouTube
video). After the test, I found that I could easily blow out most of
the hair because there was no grease or goo to hold the fur ball in
place. The laptop in the photo was possibly used near something that
produced greasy fumes (kitchen or oil burning furnace). It took about
3 years to look like the photo. I forgot to take a photo of the fan.
It was fairly clean except for greasy dirt stuck to the blades. I
could hear the fan struggling, but it was against the back pressure,
not friction from the filth. Again, the picture was AFTER I had blown
out the laptop with 60 PSI compressed air from my blow gun in both
directions.

Related to that, notebooks and laptops, ie often used on laps.
I'm surprised how few outlet grills have a bulge around them to stop
loose clothing blocking the air outlet. Cut bit/s of blue hotmelt glue
stick and glue the disc/crescent to the periphery simply sorts that one

 

[Jeff Liebermann]

On Sat, 8 Aug 2015 06:29:03 +0000 (UTC), Cydrome Leader
<presence@MUNGEpanix.com> wrote:

The real problem is the mechanical design. The grill on the heat pipe
is made for maximum cooling, not minimum filth accumulation. I did an
experiment once with some dog hair clippings (don't ask) to see what

ha, nice test.

I used to share my office with a cigarette smoker. Checking air flow
was easy with him around. However, he died and I have to now search
for someone who still smokes (cancer candidates).

Incidentally, one of my favorite tricks to checking air flow is to
remove the cover from (for example) a mini-tower case, and replace it
with a layer of cellophane wrap. You can easily see the smoke moving
around the case. For my paying customers, I vacuum formed a
replacement cover out of clear acrylic, or viewed the insides with an
endoscope. If I had a spare cover, I would install an acrylic window.

I recall an old stale cigar being used to test airflow though audio amps
at one shop.

Yeah, that should work if you can stand the smell. One of my friends
gave me a "plumbers rocket". They come in all shapes and sizes, but
this one was a rather large one. Far too much smoke. So, I built a
smoker (used to smoke cheese, meat, etc) from a small aquarium pump, a
stainless can combustion chamber, and some copper plumbing. It
doesn't produce much smoke, but that's what I want.

Hint: Don't use a fog machine. The water or glycerine mist is too
heavy and sinks much faster than wood or paper ash. They also produce
far too much fog and the glycerine is hard to remove from the PCB
without washing the board.


--
Jeff Liebermann jeffl@cruzio.com
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

 

[Jeff Liebermann]

On Sat, 08 Aug 2015 08:13:28 +0100, N_Cook <diverse@tcp.co.uk> wrote:

Related to that, notebooks and laptops, ie often used on laps.
I'm surprised how few outlet grills have a bulge around them to stop
loose clothing blocking the air outlet. Cut bit/s of blue hotmelt glue
stick and glue the disc/crescent to the periphery simply sorts that one

Yeah, that can be a problem. I've done it to myself with the carpet
matt that I have on my workbench. When I place the laptop on it, it
sinks into the fibers and totally blocks the air flow. I now use a
rubber door matt, that has a raised labyrinth design to prevent
blocking.

However, the real problem is the newer low profile laptops don't have
any air space under the laptop when placed on a flat surface. The
closer proximity to the table means that it sucks in all the dust,
dirt, crap, food crumbs, whatever that is on the table. Kinda like a
vacuum cleaner. Try it. Put some dust on the table and move the
laptop around near it. Unless the dust is sticky, it will get sucked
into the fan.

The manufacturers solution is to replace or augment the slots in the
bottom of the laptop with a grill full of small holes, such as in the
photo:
<http://802.11junk.com/jeffl/pics/repair/HP%20Envy%20m6%20clogged%20fan/slides/clogged_fan.html>
The added grill is obviously a quick fix that was not in the original
design, which only had slots. The result is that the air intake area,
is much smaller than the exhaust area, thus constricting the air flow.
A centrifugal fan is a really bad choice for a system with a
restricted intake (and a clogged exhaust). That might also explain
why the fan didn't move much air, even at "high" speeds.

--
Jeff Liebermann jeffl@cruzio.com
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

 

[Jeff Liebermann]

On Fri, 7 Aug 2015 21:08:38 -0700 (PDT), avagadro7@gmail.com wrote:

>"They all do that"

Welcome to my fan club:
<http://fixmylaptop.com.au/files/u2/photo_3.jpg>
<http://vidmar.net/weblog/images/vidmar_net/weblog/WindowsLiveWriter/MyDelllaptopisrunningloudfanisalmostalwa_146AF/IMG_4569_2.jpg>
<http://scottiestech.info/wp-content/uploads/2015/01/clogged_heatsink.jpg>
<https://www.google.com/search?tbm=isch&q=dirty+laptop+fan>
The problem is the transition between the fan shroud and the heat
exchanger grill. If there's a gap in between, it's going to trap hair
and eventually clog. Of course, they all have gaps. Not much can be
done for that, except make it easier to clean. That's the real
problem. HP, in its infinitesimal wisdom, failed to include an access
door to the fan area. They also made it very difficult to remove the
plastic case bottom. Ideally, the fan could be attached to an access
door instead of the motherboard, which would make removal and cleaning
MUCH easier. HP did do one thing right. I can remove the fan without
first removing the motherboard which is a problem on some laptops.

--
Jeff Liebermann jeffl@cruzio.com
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

 

"They all do that"

I bought a Dell 1705E for my first computer. In the library the 1705 drew ooohs and ahhhhs.

I moved to a jungle off the beach at Canaveral Inlet. I was watching Yanks beat the Sox when several roaches walked up over an into the laptop via mic slots.

aaaieeeeeeeeee !

Off course the r's were doing this unnoticed at night.

Dell sez everything is coated with an invisible waterproof plastic coating

On the air vent slits....consider the form is designed for air entry but not so easily water entry. By THE air slit engineer.

 

[Jeff Liebermann]

On Sat, 08 Aug 2015 19:30:50 -0700, DaveC <not@home.cow> wrote:

>what do you use for fuel in your smoker?

Box cardboard, paper egg crates, wood chips, charcoal dust, pellet
stove fuel, dried lawn clippings, or anything that will burn
inefficiently and smoulder. Adding a sprinkle of water produced more
smoke, but the flames went out too quickly. Read about what goes into
a bee keepers smoker for clues:
<http://www.dave-cushman.net/bee/smofuel.html>

--
Jeff Liebermann jeffl@cruzio.com
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

 

[DaveC]

On 8 Aug 2015, Jeff Liebermann wrote

So, I built a
smoker (used to smoke cheese, meat, etc) from a small aquarium pump, a
stainless can combustion chamber, and some copper plumbing. It
doesn't produce much smoke, but that's what I want.

Jeff,
what do you use for fuel in your smoker?

Dave

 

AE6KS ..... how about live oak ?

or in your area...dead oak.

 

[JW]

On Sat, 08 Aug 2015 20:11:50 -0700 Jeff Liebermann <jeffl@cruzio.com>
wrote in Message id: <spgdsap2n9kf93fvvpd57r8f1k1oljnumf@4ax.com>:

On Sat, 08 Aug 2015 19:30:50 -0700, DaveC <not@home.cow> wrote:

what do you use for fuel in your smoker?

Box cardboard, paper egg crates, wood chips, charcoal dust, pellet
stove fuel, dried lawn clippings, or anything that will burn
inefficiently and smoulder. Adding a sprinkle of water produced more
smoke, but the flames went out too quickly. Read about what goes into
a bee keepers smoker for clues:
http://www.dave-cushman.net/bee/smofuel.html

How about using incense?

 

H-P designed computers for office conditions. Blaming H-P form our slovenliness is un-called for ...

Walmart sells round white grippy pads with AAA adhesive once the grease goes off your laptop with methyl chloride raising vents just so for better cooling and no slip on slide surfaces...

I lost the 1705E from G's out of the Turbo.

 

[Jeff Liebermann]

On Mon, 10 Aug 2015 08:00:02 -0400, JW <none@dev.null> wrote:

On Sat, 08 Aug 2015 20:11:50 -0700 Jeff Liebermann <jeffl@cruzio.com
wrote in Message id: <spgdsap2n9kf93fvvpd57r8f1k1oljnumf@4ax.com>:

On Sat, 08 Aug 2015 19:30:50 -0700, DaveC <not@home.cow> wrote:

what do you use for fuel in your smoker?

Box cardboard, paper egg crates, wood chips, charcoal dust, pellet
stove fuel, dried lawn clippings, or anything that will burn
inefficiently and smoulder. Adding a sprinkle of water produced more
smoke, but the flames went out too quickly. Read about what goes into
a bee keepers smoker for clues:
http://www.dave-cushman.net/bee/smofuel.html

How about using incense?

I haven't tried incense but I suspect it will not produce enough
visible smoke.

Also, since the machine under test is usually borrowed, methinks the
owner might not appreciate having his machine internally coated with a
layer of smelly oil. I had that problem when I used some of the pine
kindling I save for starting my wood burning stove. The sap
(creosote) was carried along with the smoke and made the case reek
like a pine tree. Fortunately, most of it condensed near the air
intake, so all I had to do was solvent wash the grill work and Dell's
one big case fan. What you want is a finely divided ash, not a smelly
or oily glue.

Sigh. I guess they don't teach combustion, bomb making, and arson in
the skools any more. We had "burn baby burn" while I was in college,
but I guess later generations were too busy burning incense, getting
stoned, and fighting smog to bother learning about rapid oxidation.
Very sad and depressing commentary on the deteriorating quality of
education methinks.

Hints: Don't get the mix too hot, humidity has a big effect, figure
out which way the wind is blowing first, and don't inhale the smoke.
Too much oxidizer will cause the steel case to rust or the mix to act
like flash powder. Try not to Learn by Destroying your computah.
<http://chemistry.about.com/od/chemistryhowtoguide/a/coloredsmoke.htm>
<http://xtrem-experiments.com/pyro-compositions/colored-smoke.html>

--
Jeff Liebermann jeffl@cruzio.com
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

 

"Also, since the machine under test is usually borrowed, methinks the
owner might not appreciate having his machine internally coated with a
layer of smelly oil."

He might also think you're smoking pot. lol

This all makes me appreciate my crapola Gateway. It's a P series and I bought them in large part because of the bogger screen. I can almost see it YIPPEE ! It has alot going for it really, it has two HD bays which I never seen in a laptop before or since, the RAM is easy to get to, the batteries seem pretty good considering now they are over five years old. But the OS is Vista Hoe Premium and I cosinder that it runs like shit even though it is pretty clean. I mean I don't load alot on it lke some people. The AV is AVG. And the sound sucks. I don't mean the speakers, I mean even the audio output is highly upcompressed, like radio. In fact so compressed - AM radio. Has decent frequency response but I have to turn the input level amost all the way down on VLC to get rid of (most of) the compression. Actually I like it for movies that way, but music ? I might have to get an external DAC. (don't start that audiophool shit now)

I dunno what to do, I don't want 7, 8 or 10 and I'll never find drivers fro XP, the running of which has its own set of problems. Not quite ready to jump to Linux but im not completely in the dark on it.

Anyway, all this kinda makes me wonder how they manage the heat in those tablets. The Microsoft one is supposed to be a veritable PC. With the USB you could concievably plug in a mouse and (real) keyboard and do just about anything. Even print. One thing I haven't seen them tout is a video output. I am pretty sure it would have to be HDMI because of the thickness. (or would that be thinness ? Like what is the speed of dark ?)

Would an external touchscreen monitor work on one ? Ifit had HDMI and USB, probably I would think.

 

>"Vista Hoe Premium "

I'm keeping that one !

 

AE6KS .... https://goo.gl/bjLK8y

wonderful...If I can have you fix it ? today the charger overheated a battery.

The charger system is dying. You know the story abt the lightning strike when my social research attempted finding a ide photo of Debbie Boone is Images ?

I typed. YOUR SLOVENLINESS but Goonazi's changed YOUR to OUR

A Dell 1620 ? replaced Big Silver...a 1620 screen is max better in daylight that a 2006 1705E.

https://picasaweb.google.com/102234459580640424681/SOLO#6133236024948125394

the laptops sit on a plywood desk running from below radioatop doghouse to metal cargo divider. AAA GPS in S&T and Garmin Nroute.
I herd yawl has a chance to run the San Andreas route into SF. Outstanding N-S trip. Remarkable for the zero traffic on weekdays on shoulder seasons. EG only vehicle on the Roosevelt Slalom down to the Transverse Intersection.
https://goo.gl/MTz5ak SUPER !
There are several dumpstered pdf life jackets in stock with ethafoam closed cell...small slices of ethafoam glued to edges of electronics damps shock even for a Otter Boxed Samsung5.
Not marketable as foam chunks 'spoil the lines'

 

sliders here called GRIPPES , replaceable off course, are Waxman 4738511W 1" 16 count

 

On Monday, August 10, 2015 at 7:06:21 PM UTC-4, avag...@gmail.com wrote:
> sliders here called GRIPPES , replaceable off course, are Waxman 4738511W 1" 16 count

nude and GRIPPERS dammit