ceiling fan buzzing

K

klem kedidelhopper

Guest
We have a ceiling fan in our bedroom that we sometimes like to run at
very slow speed at night. The fan was purchased as new surplus many
years ago and never came with a speed control. So I have been using a
generic solid state speed controller. With this unit we are able to
take the unit down to complete "crawl" however there has always been a
slight rhythmic buzzing noise whose loudness and duty cycle are both
directly proportional to the motor speed. I know it's related to the
pulse type of control I'm using but short of just using a variac or a
rheostat for that matter, does anyone know of a method to achieve a
very slow speed without the noise?

Also this motor has no brushes and so even though its not labeled as
such I wonder if it could be a "Universal" type of motor that could
run on DC? It wouldn't take much to put a bridge and perhaps even a
filter in the electrical box ahead of the motor. I'm thinking that DC
operation could possibly be quieter. Thanks, Lenny
 
On 16 jul, 09:27, klem kedidelhopper <captainvideo462...@gmail.com>
wrote:
We have a ceiling fan in our bedroom that we sometimes like to run at
very slow speed at night. The fan was purchased as new surplus many
years ago and never came with a speed control. So I have been using a
generic solid state speed controller. With this unit we are able to
take the unit down to complete "crawl" however there has always been a
slight rhythmic buzzing noise whose loudness and duty cycle are both
directly proportional to the motor speed. I know it's related to the
pulse type of control I'm using but short of just using a variac or a
rheostat for that matter, does anyone know of a method to achieve a
very slow speed without the noise?

Also this motor has no brushes and so even though its not labeled as
such I wonder if it could be a "Universal" type of motor that could
run on DC? It wouldn't take much to put a bridge and perhaps even a
filter in the electrical box ahead of the motor. I'm thinking that DC
operation could possibly be quieter. Thanks, Lenny
Click to expand...
A 120vac ceiling fan motor uses a pancake induction motor which can't
be used with DC. I have seen wall rehostats for sale at hardware
stores to be used with ceiling fans. Some of them have two controls,
one for the ceiling fan lamp light and another for the fan. These can
be installed inside a 2x4 box. The ones I have seen are manufactured
by Ace Hardware.

Good luck!
 
Are you sure it's the speed controller that's causing the problem.
I wonder if you ran it at full speed without the blades and the
'whoosh' they cause you might still hear the buzz/hum.

Perhaps as an experiment power it off a resistor for a couple of
seconds.

On 7/16/2011 6:27 AM, klem kedidelhopper wrote:
We have a ceiling fan in our bedroom that we sometimes like to run at
very slow speed at night. The fan was purchased as new surplus many
years ago and never came with a speed control. So I have been using a
generic solid state speed controller. With this unit we are able to
take the unit down to complete "crawl" however there has always been a
slight rhythmic buzzing noise whose loudness and duty cycle are both
directly proportional to the motor speed. I know it's related to the
pulse type of control I'm using but short of just using a variac or a
rheostat for that matter, does anyone know of a method to achieve a
very slow speed without the noise?

Also this motor has no brushes and so even though its not labeled as
such I wonder if it could be a "Universal" type of motor that could
run on DC? It wouldn't take much to put a bridge and perhaps even a
filter in the electrical box ahead of the motor. I'm thinking that DC
operation could possibly be quieter. Thanks, Lenny
Click to expand...
 
klem kedidelhopper wrote:
We have a ceiling fan in our bedroom that we sometimes like to run at
very slow speed at night. The fan was purchased as new surplus many
years ago and never came with a speed control. So I have been using a
generic solid state speed controller. With this unit we are able to
take the unit down to complete "crawl" however there has always been a
slight rhythmic buzzing noise whose loudness and duty cycle are both
directly proportional to the motor speed. I know it's related to the
pulse type of control I'm using but short of just using a variac or a
rheostat for that matter, does anyone know of a method to achieve a
very slow speed without the noise?

Also this motor has no brushes and so even though its not labeled as
such I wonder if it could be a "Universal" type of motor that could
run on DC? It wouldn't take much to put a bridge and perhaps even a
filter in the electrical box ahead of the motor. I'm thinking that DC
operation could possibly be quieter. Thanks, Lenny
Click to expand...

Is the speed controler made for induction motors?


--
It's easy to think outside the box, when you have a cutting torch.
 
On Jul 16, 7:35 pm, "Michael A. Terrell" <mike.terr...@earthlink.net>
wrote:
klem kedidelhopper wrote:

We have a ceiling fan in our bedroom that we sometimes like to run at
very slow speed at night. The fan was purchased as new surplus many
years ago and never came with a speed control. So I have been using a
generic solid state speed controller. With this unit we are able to
take the unit down to complete "crawl" however there has always been a
slight rhythmic buzzing noise whose loudness and duty cycle are both
directly proportional to the motor speed. I know it's related to the
pulse type of control I'm using but short of just using a variac or a
rheostat for that matter, does anyone know of a method to achieve a
very slow speed without the noise?

Also this motor has no brushes and so even though its not labeled as
such I wonder if it could be a "Universal" type of motor that could
run on DC? It wouldn't take much to put a bridge and perhaps even a
filter in the electrical box ahead of the motor. I'm thinking that DC
operation could possibly be quieter. Thanks, Lenny

   Is the speed controler made for induction motors?

--
It's easy to think outside the box, when you have a cutting torch.
Click to expand...
How would a speed controller made for induction motors differ from say
an ordinary lamp dimmer?
 
klem kedidelhopper wrote:
On Jul 16, 7:35 pm, "Michael A. Terrell" <mike.terr...@earthlink.net
wrote:
klem kedidelhopper wrote:

We have a ceiling fan in our bedroom that we sometimes like to run at
very slow speed at night. The fan was purchased as new surplus many
years ago and never came with a speed control. So I have been using a
generic solid state speed controller. With this unit we are able to
take the unit down to complete "crawl" however there has always been a
slight rhythmic buzzing noise whose loudness and duty cycle are both
directly proportional to the motor speed. I know it's related to the
pulse type of control I'm using but short of just using a variac or a
rheostat for that matter, does anyone know of a method to achieve a
very slow speed without the noise?

Also this motor has no brushes and so even though its not labeled as
such I wonder if it could be a "Universal" type of motor that could
run on DC? It wouldn't take much to put a bridge and perhaps even a
filter in the electrical box ahead of the motor. I'm thinking that DC
operation could possibly be quieter. Thanks, Lenny

Is the speed controler made for induction motors?

How would a speed controller made for induction motors differ from say
an ordinary lamp dimmer?
Click to expand...

Lamp dimmers are simple phase controllers. They aren't designed for
inductive loads. That's why most light dimmers can't be used on
Florescent lights. They can cause the motor to overheat at some speeds,
and cause it to be noisy or erratic at low speeds.

Leviton makes variable speed fan controls with a slider to set the
speed. You can get them at HD, Lowes or a lot of other building supply
stores.

<http://www.leviton.com/OA_HTML/ibeCCtpSctDspRte.jsp?section=10857&minisite=10025>

<http://www.lowes.com/SearchCatalogDisplay?Ntt=speed+control&langId=-1&storeId=10151&catalogId=10051&N=0>

<http://www.homedepot.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/Search?keyword=speed+control&selectedCatgry=SEARCH+ALL&langId=-1&storeId=10051&catalogId=10053>
--
It's easy to think outside the box, when you have a cutting torch.
 
On Jul 17, 6:30 am, "Michael A. Terrell" <mike.terr...@earthlink.net>
wrote:
klem kedidelhopper wrote:

On Jul 16, 7:35 pm, "Michael A. Terrell" <mike.terr...@earthlink.net
wrote:
klem kedidelhopper wrote:

We have a ceiling fan in our bedroom that we sometimes like to run at
very slow speed at night. The fan was purchased as new surplus many
years ago and never came with a speed control. So I have been using a
generic solid state speed controller. With this unit we are able to
take the unit down to complete "crawl" however there has always been a
slight rhythmic buzzing noise whose loudness and duty cycle are both
directly proportional to the motor speed. I know it's related to the
pulse type of control I'm using but short of just using a variac or a
rheostat for that matter, does anyone know of a method to achieve a
very slow speed without the noise?

Also this motor has no brushes and so even though its not labeled as
such I wonder if it could be a "Universal" type of motor that could
run on DC? It wouldn't take much to put a bridge and perhaps even a
filter in the electrical box ahead of the motor. I'm thinking that DC
operation could possibly be quieter. Thanks, Lenny

   Is the speed controler made for induction motors?

How would a speed controller made for induction motors differ from say
an ordinary lamp dimmer?

   Lamp dimmers are simple phase controllers.  They aren't designed for
inductive loads. That's why most light dimmers can't be used on
Florescent lights.  They can cause the motor to overheat at some speeds,
and cause it to be noisy or erratic at low speeds.

Leviton makes variable speed fan controls with a slider to set the
speed. You can get them at HD, Lowes or a lot of other building supply
stores.

http://www.leviton.com/OA_HTML/ibeCCtpSctDspRte.jsp?section=10857&min....

http://www.lowes.com/SearchCatalogDisplay?Ntt=speed+control&langId=-1...

http://www.homedepot.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/Search?keyword=spe....
--
It's easy to think outside the box, when you have a cutting torch.
Click to expand...
Thanks Michael for sending me those dimmer links. They are pricey
though... Lenny
 
On Jul 18, 9:22 am, klem kedidelhopper <captainvideo462...@gmail.com>
wrote:
On Jul 17, 6:30 am, "Michael A. Terrell" <mike.terr...@earthlink.net
wrote:



klem kedidelhopper wrote:

On Jul 16, 7:35 pm, "Michael A. Terrell" <mike.terr...@earthlink.net
wrote:
klem kedidelhopper wrote:

We have a ceiling fan in our bedroom that we sometimes like to run at
very slow speed at night. The fan was purchased as new surplus many
years ago and never came with a speed control. So I have been using a
generic solid state speed controller. With this unit we are able to
take the unit down to complete "crawl" however there has always been a
slight rhythmic buzzing noise whose loudness and duty cycle are both
directly proportional to the motor speed. I know it's related to the
pulse type of control I'm using but short of just using a variac or a
rheostat for that matter, does anyone know of a method to achieve a
very slow speed without the noise?

Also this motor has no brushes and so even though its not labeled as
such I wonder if it could be a "Universal" type of motor that could
run on DC? It wouldn't take much to put a bridge and perhaps even a
filter in the electrical box ahead of the motor. I'm thinking that DC
operation could possibly be quieter. Thanks, Lenny

   Is the speed controler made for induction motors?

How would a speed controller made for induction motors differ from say
an ordinary lamp dimmer?

   Lamp dimmers are simple phase controllers.  They aren't designed for
inductive loads. That's why most light dimmers can't be used on
Florescent lights.  They can cause the motor to overheat at some speeds,
and cause it to be noisy or erratic at low speeds.

Leviton makes variable speed fan controls with a slider to set the
speed. You can get them at HD, Lowes or a lot of other building supply
stores.

http://www.leviton.com/OA_HTML/ibeCCtpSctDspRte.jsp?section=10857&min...

http://www.lowes.com/SearchCatalogDisplay?Ntt=speed+control&langId=-1...

http://www.homedepot.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/Search?keyword=spe...
--
It's easy to think outside the box, when you have a cutting torch.

Thanks Michael for sending me those dimmer links. They are pricey
though... Lenny
Click to expand...
I did find the Leviton but it may not be a continuously variable unit.
I'll have to go look at them. Lenny
 
On Mon, 18 Jul 2011 06:31:03 -0700 (PDT), klem kedidelhopper
<captainvideo462009@gmail.com> wrote:

On Jul 18, 9:22 am, klem kedidelhopper <captainvideo462...@gmail.com
wrote:
On Jul 17, 6:30 am, "Michael A. Terrell" <mike.terr...@earthlink.net
wrote:



klem kedidelhopper wrote:

On Jul 16, 7:35 pm, "Michael A. Terrell" <mike.terr...@earthlink.net
wrote:
klem kedidelhopper wrote:

We have a ceiling fan in our bedroom that we sometimes like to run at
very slow speed at night. The fan was purchased as new surplus many
years ago and never came with a speed control. So I have been using a
generic solid state speed controller. With this unit we are able to
take the unit down to complete "crawl" however there has always been a
slight rhythmic buzzing noise whose loudness and duty cycle are both
directly proportional to the motor speed. I know it's related to the
pulse type of control I'm using but short of just using a variac or a
rheostat for that matter, does anyone know of a method to achieve a
very slow speed without the noise?

Also this motor has no brushes and so even though its not labeled as
such I wonder if it could be a "Universal" type of motor that could
run on DC? It wouldn't take much to put a bridge and perhaps even a
filter in the electrical box ahead of the motor. I'm thinking that DC
operation could possibly be quieter. Thanks, Lenny

   Is the speed controler made for induction motors?

How would a speed controller made for induction motors differ from say
an ordinary lamp dimmer?

   Lamp dimmers are simple phase controllers.  They aren't designed for
inductive loads. That's why most light dimmers can't be used on
Florescent lights.  They can cause the motor to overheat at some speeds,
and cause it to be noisy or erratic at low speeds.

Leviton makes variable speed fan controls with a slider to set the
speed. You can get them at HD, Lowes or a lot of other building supply
stores.

http://www.leviton.com/OA_HTML/ibeCCtpSctDspRte.jsp?section=10857&min...

http://www.lowes.com/SearchCatalogDisplay?Ntt=speed+control&langId=-1...

http://www.homedepot.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/Search?keyword=spe...
--
It's easy to think outside the box, when you have a cutting torch.

Thanks Michael for sending me those dimmer links. They are pricey
though... Lenny

I did find the Leviton but it may not be a continuously variable unit.
I'll have to go look at them. Lenny
Click to expand...
I had a fan that was noisy like that, and stuck a 5-10 uF capacitor
in series with the motor. You can't use the dimmer - so you need a
switch to hook the fan either to the controller or the series cap. It
runs quite slowly, and no buzzing. Make sure the capacitor is designed
for line use ..... 250vac or 600vdc should be OK. If it fails, the fan
will just run at full speed. The only worry would be if it were to get
hot say from internal arcing or something wierd like that. To be one
the safe side use a U/L approved or type Z capacitor.
You can cause the cap and inductance of the fan to resonate....
That will cause voltages greater than the line voltage to appear
across the fan motor, and it go fast, and overheat. Try a few
capacitors, starting at 1uf, and increase until you get the speed you
want.
Some fans have a switch that gives 3-4 speeds, with a series cap,
you can effectively get a much slower range of speeds, and thereby not
need to use a dimmer type speed controller.

Paul G.
 
On Mon, 18 Jul 2011 21:35:26 -0300, Paul G. <paulguy@eastlink.ca>
wrote:

On Mon, 18 Jul 2011 06:31:03 -0700 (PDT), klem kedidelhopper
captainvideo462009@gmail.com> wrote:

On Jul 18, 9:22 am, klem kedidelhopper <captainvideo462...@gmail.com
wrote:
On Jul 17, 6:30 am, "Michael A. Terrell" <mike.terr...@earthlink.net
wrote:



klem kedidelhopper wrote:

On Jul 16, 7:35 pm, "Michael A. Terrell" <mike.terr...@earthlink.net
wrote:
klem kedidelhopper wrote:

We have a ceiling fan in our bedroom that we sometimes like to run at
very slow speed at night. The fan was purchased as new surplus many
years ago and never came with a speed control. So I have been using a
generic solid state speed controller. With this unit we are able to
take the unit down to complete "crawl" however there has always been a
slight rhythmic buzzing noise whose loudness and duty cycle are both
directly proportional to the motor speed. I know it's related to the
pulse type of control I'm using but short of just using a variac or a
rheostat for that matter, does anyone know of a method to achieve a
very slow speed without the noise?

Also this motor has no brushes and so even though its not labeled as
such I wonder if it could be a "Universal" type of motor that could
run on DC? It wouldn't take much to put a bridge and perhaps even a
filter in the electrical box ahead of the motor. I'm thinking that DC
operation could possibly be quieter. Thanks, Lenny

   Is the speed controler made for induction motors?

How would a speed controller made for induction motors differ from say
an ordinary lamp dimmer?

   Lamp dimmers are simple phase controllers.  They aren't designed for
inductive loads. That's why most light dimmers can't be used on
Florescent lights.  They can cause the motor to overheat at some speeds,
and cause it to be noisy or erratic at low speeds.

Leviton makes variable speed fan controls with a slider to set the
speed. You can get them at HD, Lowes or a lot of other building supply
stores.

http://www.leviton.com/OA_HTML/ibeCCtpSctDspRte.jsp?section=10857&min...

http://www.lowes.com/SearchCatalogDisplay?Ntt=speed+control&langId=-1...

http://www.homedepot.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/Search?keyword=spe...
--
It's easy to think outside the box, when you have a cutting torch.

Thanks Michael for sending me those dimmer links. They are pricey
though... Lenny

I did find the Leviton but it may not be a continuously variable unit.
I'll have to go look at them. Lenny

I had a fan that was noisy like that, and stuck a 5-10 uF capacitor
in series with the motor. You can't use the dimmer - so you need a
switch to hook the fan either to the controller or the series cap. It
runs quite slowly, and no buzzing. Make sure the capacitor is designed
for line use ..... 250vac or 600vdc should be OK. If it fails, the fan
will just run at full speed. The only worry would be if it were to get
hot say from internal arcing or something wierd like that. To be one
the safe side use a U/L approved or type Z capacitor.
You can cause the cap and inductance of the fan to resonate....
That will cause voltages greater than the line voltage to appear
across the fan motor, and it go fast, and overheat. Try a few
capacitors, starting at 1uf, and increase until you get the speed you
want.
Some fans have a switch that gives 3-4 speeds, with a series cap,
you can effectively get a much slower range of speeds, and thereby not
need to use a dimmer type speed controller.

Paul G.
Click to expand...
That should be a "X" type capacitor, not a "Z" type. It's
questionable that you need either X or Y types.

From an Illinois Capacitor blurb on capacitors:
" These capacitors are divided into 2 classifications, X and Y. X
class capacitors are capacitors that are connected line to line and in
the event of failure of the capacitor the potential for electrical
shock is not present. X capacitors are further subdivided into three
subcategories X1, X2 and X3. X1 capacitors are used where the peak
voltage the capacitors will be greater than 2500 volts and less than
4000V. Class X2 capacitors are in applications where the peak voltage
is equal to below 2500 volts. X3 capacitors are used where the peak
voltage is less than or equal to 1200 volts. X2 capacitors are the
most common.
Y capacitors on the other hand are connected from line to ground. They
are typically a very low capacitance value. In the event a Y capacitor
fails the potential for electrical shock is present. Y capacitors are
also subdivided into four subcategories, Y1, Y2, Y3 and Y4. Y1
capacitors are used with voltages up 500Vac, Y2 are used with voltages
up to 300Vac,Y3 are used with voltages up to 250Vac and Y4 capacitors
are used up to 150Vac.
X class capacitors are rated up to 660Vac and Y capacitors are
manufactured with voltage ratings up to 440Vac.
X class capacitors are manufactured with a variety of dielectric
materials. This includes polyester, polypropylene, ceramic and paper
while Y capacitors are typically produced out of ceramic and paper
dielectrics. With the exception of ceramics the capacitors are
produced using metallized materials and may be impregnated with epoxy
or mineral oils."
 
Much depends upon what type of motor is in the ceiling fan. There are more
than one type of AC motors without brushes.

Klem/Lenny hasn't revealed what type of AC motor he's referring to.. nor
anything specific regarding the "generic" controller that wasn't supplied
with the fan.

--
Cheers,
WB
..............


"Paul G." <paulguy@eastlink.ca> wrote in message
news:4ak9275fo8vqf5fhtj0tie6n1p8j5t7a3s@4ax.com...
I had a fan that was noisy like that, and stuck a 5-10 uF capacitor
in series with the motor. You can't use the dimmer - so you need a
switch to hook the fan either to the controller or the series cap. It
runs quite slowly, and no buzzing. Make sure the capacitor is designed
for line use ..... 250vac or 600vdc should be OK. If it fails, the fan
will just run at full speed. The only worry would be if it were to get
hot say from internal arcing or something wierd like that. To be one
the safe side use a U/L approved or type Z capacitor.
You can cause the cap and inductance of the fan to resonate....
That will cause voltages greater than the line voltage to appear
across the fan motor, and it go fast, and overheat. Try a few
capacitors, starting at 1uf, and increase until you get the speed you
want.
Some fans have a switch that gives 3-4 speeds, with a series cap,
you can effectively get a much slower range of speeds, and thereby not
need to use a dimmer type speed controller.

Paul G.

On Mon, 18 Jul 2011 06:31:03 -0700 (PDT), klem kedidelhopper
captainvideo462009@gmail.com> wrote:

On Jul 18, 9:22 am, klem kedidelhopper <captainvideo462...@gmail.com
wrote:

Thanks Michael for sending me those dimmer links. They are pricey
though... Lenny
Click to expand...
 
On Jul 18, 9:01 pm, Paul G. <paul...@eastlink.ca> wrote:
On Mon, 18 Jul 2011 21:35:26 -0300, Paul G. <paul...@eastlink.ca
wrote:



On Mon, 18 Jul 2011 06:31:03 -0700 (PDT), klem kedidelhopper
captainvideo462...@gmail.com> wrote:

On Jul 18, 9:22 am, klem kedidelhopper <captainvideo462...@gmail.com
wrote:
On Jul 17, 6:30 am, "Michael A. Terrell" <mike.terr...@earthlink.net
wrote:

klem kedidelhopper wrote:

On Jul 16, 7:35 pm, "Michael A. Terrell" <mike.terr...@earthlink.net
wrote:
klem kedidelhopper wrote:

We have a ceiling fan in our bedroom that we sometimes like to run at
very slow speed at night. The fan was purchased as new surplus many
years ago and never came with a speed control. So I have been using a
generic solid state speed controller. With this unit we are able to
take the unit down to complete "crawl" however there has always been a
slight rhythmic buzzing noise whose loudness and duty cycle are both
directly proportional to the motor speed. I know it's related to the
pulse type of control I'm using but short of just using a variac or a
rheostat for that matter, does anyone know of a method to achieve a
very slow speed without the noise?

Also this motor has no brushes and so even though its not labeled as
such I wonder if it could be a "Universal" type of motor that could
run on DC? It wouldn't take much to put a bridge and perhaps even a
filter in the electrical box ahead of the motor. I'm thinking that DC
operation could possibly be quieter. Thanks, Lenny

   Is the speed controler made for induction motors?

How would a speed controller made for induction motors differ from say
an ordinary lamp dimmer?

   Lamp dimmers are simple phase controllers.  They aren't designed for
inductive loads. That's why most light dimmers can't be used on
Florescent lights.  They can cause the motor to overheat at some speeds,
and cause it to be noisy or erratic at low speeds.

Leviton makes variable speed fan controls with a slider to set the
speed. You can get them at HD, Lowes or a lot of other building supply
stores.

http://www.leviton.com/OA_HTML/ibeCCtpSctDspRte.jsp?section=10857&min...

http://www.lowes.com/SearchCatalogDisplay?Ntt=speed+control&langId=-1...

http://www.homedepot.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/Search?keyword=spe...
--
It's easy to think outside the box, when you have a cutting torch.

Thanks Michael for sending me those dimmer links. They are pricey
though... Lenny

I did find the Leviton but it may not be a continuously variable unit.
I'll have to go look at them. Lenny

  I had a fan that was noisy like that, and stuck a 5-10 uF capacitor
in series with the motor. You can't use the dimmer - so you need a
switch to hook the fan either to the controller or the series cap. It
runs quite slowly, and no buzzing. Make sure the capacitor is designed
for line use ..... 250vac or 600vdc should be OK. If it fails, the fan
will just run at full speed. The only worry would be if it were to get
hot say from internal arcing or something wierd like that. To be one
the safe side use a U/L approved or type Z capacitor.
  You can cause the cap and inductance of the fan to resonate....
That will cause voltages greater than the line voltage to appear
across the fan motor, and it go fast, and overheat. Try a few
capacitors, starting at 1uf, and increase until you get the speed you
want.
  Some fans have a switch that gives 3-4 speeds, with a series cap,
you can effectively get a much slower range of speeds, and thereby not
need to use a dimmer type speed controller.

Paul G.

  That should be a "X" type capacitor, not a "Z" type. It's
questionable that you need either X or Y types.

  From an Illinois Capacitor blurb on capacitors:
" These capacitors are divided into 2 classifications, X and Y. X
class capacitors are capacitors that are connected line to line and in
the event of failure of the capacitor the potential for electrical
shock is not present. X capacitors are further subdivided into three
subcategories X1, X2 and X3. X1 capacitors are used where the peak
voltage the capacitors will be greater than 2500 volts and less than
4000V. Class X2 capacitors are in applications where the peak voltage
is equal to below 2500 volts. X3 capacitors are used where the peak
voltage is less than or equal to 1200 volts. X2 capacitors are the
most common.
Y capacitors on the other hand are connected from line to ground. They
are typically a very low capacitance value. In the event a Y capacitor
fails the potential for electrical shock is present. Y capacitors are
also subdivided into four subcategories, Y1, Y2, Y3 and Y4. Y1
capacitors are used with voltages up 500Vac, Y2 are used with voltages
up to 300Vac,Y3 are used with voltages up to 250Vac and Y4 capacitors
are used up to 150Vac.
X class capacitors are rated up to 660Vac and Y capacitors are
manufactured with voltage ratings up to 440Vac.
X class capacitors are manufactured with a variety of dielectric
materials. This includes polyester, polypropylene, ceramic and paper
while Y capacitors are typically produced out of ceramic and paper
dielectrics. With the exception of ceramics the capacitors are
produced using metallized materials and may be impregnated with epoxy
or mineral oils."
Click to expand...
I'm thinking that the fan draws about 1.0 amp. Therefore that current
would be passing through the capacitor. I do have lots of capacitors
as well as a 5 position tapped transformer type speed control from
another fan. The problem with that control though is that slow speed
is not slow enough. Perhaps I could put the capacitor in series with
slow position and see what that will do. I never thought of doing
this. Lenny
 
On Jul 19, 11:25 am, "Wild_Bill" <wb_wildb...@XSPAMyahoo.com> wrote:
Much depends upon what type of motor is in the ceiling fan. There are more
than one type of AC motors without brushes.

Klem/Lenny hasn't revealed what type of AC motor he's referring to.. nor
anything specific regarding the "generic" controller that wasn't supplied
with the fan.

--
Cheers,
WB
.............

"Paul G." <paul...@eastlink.ca> wrote in message

news:4ak9275fo8vqf5fhtj0tie6n1p8j5t7a3s@4ax.com...



  I had a fan that was noisy like that, and stuck a 5-10 uF capacitor
in series with the motor. You can't use the dimmer - so you need a
switch to hook the fan either to the controller or the series cap. It
runs quite slowly, and no buzzing. Make sure the capacitor is designed
for line use ..... 250vac or 600vdc should be OK. If it fails, the fan
will just run at full speed. The only worry would be if it were to get
hot say from internal arcing or something wierd like that. To be one
the safe side use a U/L approved or type Z capacitor.
  You can cause the cap and inductance of the fan to resonate....
That will cause voltages greater than the line voltage to appear
across the fan motor, and it go fast, and overheat. Try a few
capacitors, starting at 1uf, and increase until you get the speed you
want.
  Some fans have a switch that gives 3-4 speeds, with a series cap,
you can effectively get a much slower range of speeds, and thereby not
need to use a dimmer type speed controller.

Paul G.
On Mon, 18 Jul 2011 06:31:03 -0700 (PDT), klem kedidelhopper
captainvideo462...@gmail.com> wrote:

On Jul 18, 9:22 am, klem kedidelhopper <captainvideo462...@gmail.com
wrote:

Thanks Michael for sending me those dimmer links. They are pricey
though... Lenny
Click to expand...
Well I don't really know what kind of a motor this is. I purchased the
fan as new surplus and it never came with a controller. It looks like
my other fans I use in the house but from a different manufacturer.
There are three metal blades, very plain looking "airplane propeller"
style, hangs from the ceiling about 1 foot down. The controller for
the other fans looks like a tapped autoformer with a 5 position
switch. Lenny
 
On 19 Jul 11 at group /sci/electronics/repair in article
<wb_wildbill@XSPAMyahoo.com> (Wild_Bill) wrote:

Much depends upon what type of motor is in the ceiling fan. There are
more than one type of AC motors without brushes.

Klem/Lenny hasn't revealed what type of AC motor he's referring to..
nor anything specific regarding the "generic" controller that wasn't
supplied with the fan.
Click to expand...
Here in PY there are lots of ceiling fans from Wahson/China.

230V/50Hz

They use a separate autotransformer in an aluminium housing (15x9x4 cm)
as controller.

It is in series with the motor and has 7 taps and a turning switch with
weird numbered positions from 0 = off and 1=max ... 7=slowest speed!
The motor so gets between 230V and down to some 80V.

My 5 Wahsons did not buzzing, even in slowest speed.

However I have 2 fans (also made in china) with no external controller
but a small hanging line which switches between 3 different speeds by
taping different positions in the motor winding. They both are buzzing
in speeds below max. I think thats in the remaining active sectors of
the winding.

None of these motors have brushes.



Saludos Wolfgang

--
Meine 7 Sinne:
Unsinn, Schwachsinn, Blödsinn, Wahnsinn, Stumpfsinn, Irrsinn, Lötzinn.
Wolfgang Allinger Paraguay reply Adresse gesetzt !
ca. 15h00..21h00 MEZ SKYPE:wolfgang.allinger
 
On Jul 17, 2:12 am, lsmartino <luismartin...@gmail.com> wrote:
On 16 jul, 09:27, klem kedidelhopper <captainvideo462...@gmail.com
wrote:



We have a ceiling fan in our bedroom that we sometimes like to run at
very slow speed at night. The fan was purchased as new surplus many
years ago and never came with a speed control. So I have been using a
generic solid state speed controller. With this unit we are able to
take the unit down to complete "crawl" however there has always been a
slight rhythmic buzzing noise whose loudness and duty cycle are both
directly proportional to the motor speed. I know it's related to the
pulse type of control I'm using but short of just using a variac or a
rheostat for that matter, does anyone know of a method to achieve a
very slow speed without the noise?

Also this motor has no brushes and so even though its not labeled as
such I wonder if it could be a "Universal" type of motor that could
run on DC? It wouldn't take much to put a bridge and perhaps even a
filter in the electrical box ahead of the motor. I'm thinking that DC
operation could possibly be quieter. Thanks, Lenny

A 120vac ceiling fan motor uses a pancake induction motor which can't
be used with DC.  I have seen wall rehostats for sale at hardware
stores to be used with ceiling fans. Some of them have two controls,
one for the ceiling fan lamp light and another for the fan. These can
be installed inside a 2x4 box. The ones I have seen are manufactured
by Ace Hardware.

Good luck!
Click to expand...
Ceiling fans sold in Australia, typically switch between a couple of
non polar mains rated capacitors in series with the motor. a few UF
from memory. can look later at one if you really want to know. (note
here is 50hz, you might need different values for 60hz).

The other type of speed control that is used here - but not as common
is the same as a light dimmer except there is a resistor in series
with the pot to ensure a minimum speed to prevent the motor from
stalling and overheating due to insufficient speed setting for it to
start rotating from a dead stop.
 
On 23 Jul 11 at group /sci/electronics/repair in article
<captainvideo462009@gmail.com> (klem kedidelhopper) wrote:

On Jul 22, 8:44 am, all2...@spambog.com (Wolfgang Allinger) wrote:
On 19 Jul 11 at group /sci/electronics/repair in article

Here in PY there are lots of ceiling fans from Wahson/China.

230V/50Hz

They use a separate autotransformer in an aluminium housing (15x9x4
cm) as controller.

It is in series with the motor and has 7 taps and a turning switch
with weird numbered positions from 0 = off and 1=max ... 7=slowest
speed! The motor so gets between 230V and down to some 80V.

I would like to try the trick with the capacitor in series with the
slowest tap on the speed control
Click to expand...
Try if it works and the Motor starts in this position. If not, it might
become very hot after it stops at a PWR out and return of PWR.

In the worst case, you will see firefigters at your home after you
return from a party :)




Saludos Wolfgang

--
Meine 7 Sinne:
Unsinn, Schwachsinn, Blödsinn, Wahnsinn, Stumpfsinn, Irrsinn, Lötzinn.
Wolfgang Allinger Paraguay reply Adresse gesetzt !
ca. 15h00..21h00 MEZ SKYPE:wolfgang.allinger
 
On Jul 22, 8:44 am, all2...@spambog.com (Wolfgang Allinger) wrote:
 On 19 Jul 11 at group /sci/electronics/repair in article
 <wb_wildb...@XSPAMyahoo.com>  (Wild_Bill)  wrote:

Much depends upon what type of motor is in the ceiling fan. There are
more than one type of AC motors without brushes.

Klem/Lenny hasn't revealed what type of AC motor he's referring to..
nor anything specific regarding the "generic" controller that wasn't
supplied with the fan.

Here in PY there are lots of ceiling fans from Wahson/China.

230V/50Hz

They use a separate autotransformer in an aluminium housing (15x9x4 cm)  
as controller.

It is in series with the motor and has 7 taps and a turning switch with  
weird numbered positions from 0 = off and 1=max ... 7=slowest speed!
The motor so gets between 230V and down to some 80V.

My 5 Wahsons did not buzzing, even in slowest speed.

However I have 2 fans (also made in china) with no external controller  
but a small hanging line which switches between 3 different speeds by  
taping different positions in the motor winding. They both are buzzing  
in speeds below max. I think thats in the remaining active sectors of  
the winding.

None of these motors have brushes.

Saludos Wolfgang
--
Meine 7 Sinne:
Unsinn, Schwachsinn, Blödsinn, Wahnsinn, Stumpfsinn, Irrsinn, Lötzinn..
Wolfgang Allinger   Paraguay             reply Adresse gesetzt !
ca. 15h00..21h00 MEZ  SKYPE:wolfgang.allinger
Click to expand...
I would like to try the trick with the capacitor in series with the
slowest tap on the speed control however I am a bit unclear as to how
to "size" the capacitor. By "size" I mean that it seems like if the
motor draws one amp for example, (and I will confirm that first), I
will need a capacitor that can handle more than that amount of current
flowing through it. I remember dealing with this sort of thing in
electronics school, but admittedly that was a very long time ago and
I've forgotten how to work this out.

For instance, I have a 4uf 250V AC capacitor that I would like to try.
This part is designed for motor starting. This is a fairly large
capacitor. The control box measures approximately 8" x 6" X 3". Most
of that space is taken up by the switch and transformer. There would
not be room inside for anything this large. Or do I need to use
anything this large? Thanks, Lenny
 
On Jul 23, 8:35 am, all2...@spambog.com (Wolfgang Allinger) wrote:
 On 23 Jul 11 at group /sci/electronics/repair in article
 <captainvideo462...@gmail.com>  (klem kedidelhopper)  wrote:

On Jul 22, 8:44 am, all2...@spambog.com (Wolfgang Allinger) wrote:
 On 19 Jul 11 at group /sci/electronics/repair in article
Here in PY there are lots of ceiling fans from Wahson/China.

230V/50Hz

They use a separate autotransformer in an aluminium housing (15x9x4
cm) as controller.

It is in series with the motor and has 7 taps and a turning switch
with weird numbered positions from 0 = off and 1=max ... 7=slowest
speed! The motor so gets between 230V and down to some 80V.
I  would like to try the trick with the capacitor in series with the
slowest tap on the speed control

Try if it works and the Motor starts in this position. If not, it might  
become very hot after it stops at a PWR out and return of PWR.

In the worst case, you will see firefigters at your home after you  
return from a party :)

Saludos Wolfgang

--
Meine 7 Sinne:
Unsinn, Schwachsinn, Blödsinn, Wahnsinn, Stumpfsinn, Irrsinn, Lötzinn..
Wolfgang Allinger   Paraguay             reply Adresse gesetzt !
ca. 15h00..21h00 MEZ  SKYPE:wolfgang.allinger
Click to expand...
 
On Jul 23, 8:35 am, all2...@spambog.com (Wolfgang Allinger) wrote:
 On 23 Jul 11 at group /sci/electronics/repair in article
 <captainvideo462...@gmail.com>  (klem kedidelhopper)  wrote:

On Jul 22, 8:44 am, all2...@spambog.com (Wolfgang Allinger) wrote:
 On 19 Jul 11 at group /sci/electronics/repair in article
Here in PY there are lots of ceiling fans from Wahson/China.

230V/50Hz

They use a separate autotransformer in an aluminium housing (15x9x4
cm) as controller.

It is in series with the motor and has 7 taps and a turning switch
with weird numbered positions from 0 = off and 1=max ... 7=slowest
speed! The motor so gets between 230V and down to some 80V.
I  would like to try the trick with the capacitor in series with the
slowest tap on the speed control

Try if it works and the Motor starts in this position. If not, it might  
become very hot after it stops at a PWR out and return of PWR.

In the worst case, you will see firefigters at your home after you  
return from a party :)

Saludos Wolfgang

--
Meine 7 Sinne:
Unsinn, Schwachsinn, Blödsinn, Wahnsinn, Stumpfsinn, Irrsinn, Lötzinn..
Wolfgang Allinger   Paraguay             reply Adresse gesetzt !
ca. 15h00..21h00 MEZ  SKYPE:wolfgang.allinger
Click to expand...
Why don't I just burn my house down before I leave for the party. That
way at least there won't be any surprises when I return.....Lenny
 
http://www.hurontel.on.ca/~taitg/pages/cfan.html

The above should give you some ideas of the speed control methods used
for ceiling fans. Most of the infinately variable ones will end up
with noise. Changing the caps will get you a lower speed. Notice
that there are different methods and not one size fits all. Also at
www.ceilingfanparts.com the spped switches are quite pecular.
 
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