CCFL & Inverter problem

B

benitos

Guest
Hi ,

Have a Toshiba Satellite laptop with a "no display" symptom.

After checking it, i can notice a very dim picture , the CCFL doesn't
lit.

After opening it , I found that the inverter had a fuse open .

Replace the fuse but after , the computer did not power up.

There was a short on the inverter boards so I replaced it with the
same model.

Now , the computer boots up , CCFL lit for a few seconds but shuts
down after.

Is is possible the the CCFL is bad also ?

Thanks for your help...
 
benitos wrote:
Hi ,

Have a Toshiba Satellite laptop with a "no display" symptom.

After checking it, i can notice a very dim picture , the CCFL doesn't
lit.

After opening it , I found that the inverter had a fuse open .

Replace the fuse but after , the computer did not power up.

There was a short on the inverter boards so I replaced it with the
same model.

Now , the computer boots up , CCFL lit for a few seconds but shuts
down after.

Is is possible the the CCFL is bad also ?

Thanks for your help...
What model is your Toshiba Satellite??
 
benitos <bentech2001@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:913e4add-5584-431f-9795-f4370527d432@w18g2000yqc.googlegroups.com...
Hi ,

Have a Toshiba Satellite laptop with a "no display" symptom.

After checking it, i can notice a very dim picture , the CCFL doesn't
lit.

After opening it , I found that the inverter had a fuse open .

Replace the fuse but after , the computer did not power up.

There was a short on the inverter boards so I replaced it with the
same model.

Now , the computer boots up , CCFL lit for a few seconds but shuts
down after.

Is is possible the the CCFL is bad also ?

Thanks for your help...
Any disc ceramic C , leaky, with the tube?
 
On Mon, 22 Aug 2011 08:37:16 -0700 (PDT), benitos
<bentech2001@gmail.com> wrote:

Hi ,

Have a Toshiba Satellite laptop with a "no display" symptom.

After checking it, i can notice a very dim picture , the CCFL doesn't
lit.

After opening it , I found that the inverter had a fuse open .

Replace the fuse but after , the computer did not power up.

There was a short on the inverter boards so I replaced it with the
same model.

Now , the computer boots up , CCFL lit for a few seconds but shuts
down after.

Is is possible the the CCFL is bad also ?

Thanks for your help...
It's possible. When the image first appears, is there a pinkish hue?
Also, inspect the wires from the inverter to the CCFL carefully.

PlainBill
 
On 22 aoűt, 15:28, PlainB...@yawhoo.com wrote:
On Mon, 22 Aug 2011 08:37:16 -0700 (PDT), benitos





bentech2...@gmail.com> wrote:
Hi ,

Have a Toshiba Satellite laptop with a "no display" symptom.

After checking it, i can notice a very dim picture , the CCFL doesn't
lit.

After opening it , I found that the inverter had a fuse open .

Replace the fuse but after , the computer did not power up.

There was a short on the inverter boards so I replaced it with the
same model.

Now , the computer boots up , CCFL lit for a few seconds but shuts
down after.

Is is possible the the CCFL is bad also ?

Thanks for your help...

It's possible.  When the image first appears, is there a pinkish hue?
Also, inspect the wires from the inverter to the CCFL carefully.

PlainBill- Masquer le texte des messages précédents -

- Afficher le texte des messages précédents -
Model is P200-MB1

Only half of the CCFL lit (kind of pink) and shuts down.
 
On Mon, 22 Aug 2011 14:19:37 -0700 (PDT) benitos <bentech2001@gmail.com>
wrote in Message id:
<7374011d-9cbe-49a2-8b92-5442c908e507@c19g2000yqe.googlegroups.com>:

On 22 aoűt, 15:28, PlainB...@yawhoo.com wrote:
On Mon, 22 Aug 2011 08:37:16 -0700 (PDT), benitos





bentech2...@gmail.com> wrote:
Hi ,

Have a Toshiba Satellite laptop with a "no display" symptom.

After checking it, i can notice a very dim picture , the CCFL doesn't
lit.

After opening it , I found that the inverter had a fuse open .

Replace the fuse but after , the computer did not power up.

There was a short on the inverter boards so I replaced it with the
same model.

Now , the computer boots up , CCFL lit for a few seconds but shuts
down after.

Is is possible the the CCFL is bad also ?

Thanks for your help...

It's possible.  When the image first appears, is there a pinkish hue?
Also, inspect the wires from the inverter to the CCFL carefully.

PlainBill- Masquer le texte des messages précédents -

- Afficher le texte des messages précédents -

Model is P200-MB1

Only half of the CCFL lit (kind of pink) and shuts down.
Sounds like it could be a tube. Most inverters have a controller which
will shut down if the load of the tube is not correct. Best to replace
both.
 
On Mon, 22 Aug 2011 14:19:37 -0700 (PDT), benitos
<bentech2001@gmail.com> wrote:

On 22 aoűt, 15:28, PlainB...@yawhoo.com wrote:
On Mon, 22 Aug 2011 08:37:16 -0700 (PDT), benitos





bentech2...@gmail.com> wrote:
Hi ,

Have a Toshiba Satellite laptop with a "no display" symptom.

After checking it, i can notice a very dim picture , the CCFL doesn't
lit.

After opening it , I found that the inverter had a fuse open .

Replace the fuse but after , the computer did not power up.

There was a short on the inverter boards so I replaced it with the
same model.

Now , the computer boots up , CCFL lit for a few seconds but shuts
down after.

Is is possible the the CCFL is bad also ?

Thanks for your help...

It's possible.  When the image first appears, is there a pinkish hue?
Also, inspect the wires from the inverter to the CCFL carefully.

PlainBill- Masquer le texte des messages précédents -

- Afficher le texte des messages précédents -

Model is P200-MB1

Only half of the CCFL lit (kind of pink) and shuts down.
That indicates the tube is old, and dying. It gets a pinkish tint
and the current rises. Replace the tube and you will have a good
display.

PlainBill
 
On Aug 23, 1:42 pm, PlainB...@yawhoo.com wrote:
On Mon, 22 Aug 2011 14:19:37 -0700 (PDT), benitos





bentech2...@gmail.com> wrote:
On 22 aoűt, 15:28, PlainB...@yawhoo.com wrote:
On Mon, 22 Aug 2011 08:37:16 -0700 (PDT), benitos

bentech2...@gmail.com> wrote:
Hi ,

Have a Toshiba Satellite laptop with a "no display" symptom.

After checking it, i can notice a very dim picture , the CCFL doesn't
lit.

After opening it , I found that the inverter had a fuse open .

Replace the fuse but after , the computer did not power up.

There was a short on the inverter boards so I replaced it with the
same model.

Now , the computer boots up , CCFL lit for a few seconds but shuts
down after.

Is is possible the the CCFL is bad also ?

Thanks for your help...

It's possible.  When the image first appears, is there a pinkish hue?
Also, inspect the wires from the inverter to the CCFL carefully.

PlainBill- Masquer le texte des messages précédents -

- Afficher le texte des messages précédents -

Model is P200-MB1

Only half of the CCFL lit (kind of pink) and shuts down.

That indicates the tube is old, and dying.   It gets a pinkish tint
and the current rises.  Replace the tube and you will have a good
display.

PlainBill- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -
OK , thank you all.
 
<PlainBill@yawhoo.com> wrote in message
news:7ap7571g82d5hcnhl8b0b1u1c7j5urbeb5@4ax.com...
On Mon, 22 Aug 2011 14:19:37 -0700 (PDT), benitos
bentech2001@gmail.com> wrote:

On 22 aoűt, 15:28, PlainB...@yawhoo.com wrote:
On Mon, 22 Aug 2011 08:37:16 -0700 (PDT), benitos





bentech2...@gmail.com> wrote:
Hi ,

Have a Toshiba Satellite laptop with a "no display" symptom.

After checking it, i can notice a very dim picture , the CCFL doesn't
lit.

After opening it , I found that the inverter had a fuse open .

Replace the fuse but after , the computer did not power up.

There was a short on the inverter boards so I replaced it with the
same model.

Now , the computer boots up , CCFL lit for a few seconds but shuts
down after.

Is is possible the the CCFL is bad also ?

Thanks for your help...

It's possible. When the image first appears, is there a pinkish hue?
Also, inspect the wires from the inverter to the CCFL carefully.

PlainBill- Masquer le texte des messages précédents -

- Afficher le texte des messages précédents -

Model is P200-MB1

Only half of the CCFL lit (kind of pink) and shuts down.
That indicates the tube is old, and dying. It gets a pinkish tint
and the current rises. Replace the tube and you will have a good
display.

PlainBill

Does one inverter supply two tubes? And if disconnecting the problematic
tube , as a proving exercise, do you have to mitigate for overdrive to the
single tube, even for say 5 seconds of proving use?
 
On Mon, 22 Aug 2011 14:19:37 -0700 (PDT), benitos
<bentech2001@gmail.com> put finger to keyboard and composed:

Model is P200-MB1
FYI, here are circuit diagrams ...

TOSHIBA Satellite P200 P205 - COMPAL LA-3441P ISRAA - REV 0.1.pdf
http://www.4shared.com/get/2082TS5c/TOSHIBA_Satellite_P200_P205_-_.html

TOSHIBA Satellite P200 P205 - COMPAL LA-3711P - REV 1.0.pdf
http://www.4shared.com/get/c0cOnc2A/TOSHIBA_Satellite_P200_P205_-_.html

- Franc Zabkar
--
Please remove one 'i' from my address when replying by email.
 
Franc Zabkar <fzabkar@iinternode.on.net> wrote in message
news:fse957dgg34a2mc3nskn93cj19js2de0d0@4ax.com...
On Mon, 22 Aug 2011 14:19:37 -0700 (PDT), benitos
bentech2001@gmail.com> put finger to keyboard and composed:

Model is P200-MB1

FYI, here are circuit diagrams ...

TOSHIBA Satellite P200 P205 - COMPAL LA-3441P ISRAA - REV 0.1.pdf
http://www.4shared.com/get/2082TS5c/TOSHIBA_Satellite_P200_P205_-_.html

TOSHIBA Satellite P200 P205 - COMPAL LA-3711P - REV 1.0.pdf
http://www.4shared.com/get/c0cOnc2A/TOSHIBA_Satellite_P200_P205_-_.html

- Franc Zabkar
--
Please remove one 'i' from my address when replying by email.

Impressive component level schema except not inverter + backlight? in less
than 1.4 Meg pdfs
Control line BKLT references but not what it is controlling AFAICS
 
On Wed, 24 Aug 2011 08:26:30 +0100, "N_Cook" <diverse@tcp.co.uk>
wrote:

PlainBill@yawhoo.com> wrote in message
news:7ap7571g82d5hcnhl8b0b1u1c7j5urbeb5@4ax.com...
On Mon, 22 Aug 2011 14:19:37 -0700 (PDT), benitos
bentech2001@gmail.com> wrote:

On 22 aoűt, 15:28, PlainB...@yawhoo.com wrote:
On Mon, 22 Aug 2011 08:37:16 -0700 (PDT), benitos





bentech2...@gmail.com> wrote:
Hi ,

Have a Toshiba Satellite laptop with a "no display" symptom.

After checking it, i can notice a very dim picture , the CCFL doesn't
lit.

After opening it , I found that the inverter had a fuse open .

Replace the fuse but after , the computer did not power up.

There was a short on the inverter boards so I replaced it with the
same model.

Now , the computer boots up , CCFL lit for a few seconds but shuts
down after.

Is is possible the the CCFL is bad also ?

Thanks for your help...

It's possible. When the image first appears, is there a pinkish hue?
Also, inspect the wires from the inverter to the CCFL carefully.

PlainBill- Masquer le texte des messages précédents -

- Afficher le texte des messages précédents -

Model is P200-MB1

Only half of the CCFL lit (kind of pink) and shuts down.
That indicates the tube is old, and dying. It gets a pinkish tint
and the current rises. Replace the tube and you will have a good
display.

PlainBill


Does one inverter supply two tubes? And if disconnecting the problematic
tube , as a proving exercise, do you have to mitigate for overdrive to the
single tube, even for say 5 seconds of proving use?

It varies with the design. I'm more familiar with the full fledged
inverters found in monitors, but it is very common to see one inverter
system driving 4 or even more tubes. The 'system' consists of a
single controller, drivers driving 1 to 6 (or more) transformers, and
each transformer driving one, two or four tubes. The system contains
circuitry which monitors the current through and the voltage across
each tube. The largest single part of the circuit is the transformer,
and even those can be less than 12mm (1/2") on a side.

PlainBill
 
On Wed, 24 Aug 2011 15:32:11 +0100, "N_Cook" <diverse@tcp.co.uk>
wrote:

Franc Zabkar <fzabkar@iinternode.on.net> wrote in message
news:fse957dgg34a2mc3nskn93cj19js2de0d0@4ax.com...
On Mon, 22 Aug 2011 14:19:37 -0700 (PDT), benitos
bentech2001@gmail.com> put finger to keyboard and composed:

Model is P200-MB1

FYI, here are circuit diagrams ...

TOSHIBA Satellite P200 P205 - COMPAL LA-3441P ISRAA - REV 0.1.pdf
http://www.4shared.com/get/2082TS5c/TOSHIBA_Satellite_P200_P205_-_.html

TOSHIBA Satellite P200 P205 - COMPAL LA-3711P - REV 1.0.pdf
http://www.4shared.com/get/c0cOnc2A/TOSHIBA_Satellite_P200_P205_-_.html

- Franc Zabkar
--
Please remove one 'i' from my address when replying by email.


Impressive component level schema except not inverter + backlight? in less
than 1.4 Meg pdfs
Control line BKLT references but not what it is controlling AFAICS

Here's a schematic and photos of a laptop inverter.
http://schematic-laptop.blogspot.com/2011/03/laptop-inverter-schematic.html

This particular design is rather feature poor, but does include over
current protection, but apparently no open lamp protection.

PlainBill
 
PlainBill@yawhoo.com wrote in
news:23ga57p6aa1jqbghji0gklrf3qfgnhifh7@4ax.com:

On Wed, 24 Aug 2011 15:32:11 +0100, "N_Cook" <diverse@tcp.co.uk
wrote:

Franc Zabkar <fzabkar@iinternode.on.net> wrote in message
news:fse957dgg34a2mc3nskn93cj19js2de0d0@4ax.com...
On Mon, 22 Aug 2011 14:19:37 -0700 (PDT), benitos
bentech2001@gmail.com> put finger to keyboard and composed:

Model is P200-MB1

FYI, here are circuit diagrams ...

TOSHIBA Satellite P200 P205 - COMPAL LA-3441P ISRAA - REV 0.1.pdf
http://www.4shared.com/get/2082TS5c/TOSHIBA_Satellite_P200_P205_-_.ht
ml

TOSHIBA Satellite P200 P205 - COMPAL LA-3711P - REV 1.0.pdf
http://www.4shared.com/get/c0cOnc2A/TOSHIBA_Satellite_P200_P205_-_.ht
ml

- Franc Zabkar
--
Please remove one 'i' from my address when replying by email.


Impressive component level schema except not inverter + backlight? in
less than 1.4 Meg pdfs
Control line BKLT references but not what it is controlling AFAICS

Here's a schematic and photos of a laptop inverter.
http://schematic-laptop.blogspot.com/2011/03/laptop-inverter-schematic.
html

This particular design is rather feature poor, but does include over
current protection, but apparently no open lamp protection.

PlainBill
one way to find out how your particular inverter circuit works is to find
the datasheet for that particular inverter-driver IC. (DAGS)
the datasheet usually has sample schematics,and describes the control
lines,etc.

--
Jim Yanik
jyanik
at
localnet
dot com
 
<PlainBill@yawhoo.com> wrote in message
news:clea57d4cas684gdgc4bm0r96uq0a7he07@4ax.com...
On Wed, 24 Aug 2011 08:26:30 +0100, "N_Cook" <diverse@tcp.co.uk
wrote:

PlainBill@yawhoo.com> wrote in message
news:7ap7571g82d5hcnhl8b0b1u1c7j5urbeb5@4ax.com...
On Mon, 22 Aug 2011 14:19:37 -0700 (PDT), benitos
bentech2001@gmail.com> wrote:

On 22 aoűt, 15:28, PlainB...@yawhoo.com wrote:
On Mon, 22 Aug 2011 08:37:16 -0700 (PDT), benitos





bentech2...@gmail.com> wrote:
Hi ,

Have a Toshiba Satellite laptop with a "no display" symptom.

After checking it, i can notice a very dim picture , the CCFL
doesn't
lit.

After opening it , I found that the inverter had a fuse open .

Replace the fuse but after , the computer did not power up.

There was a short on the inverter boards so I replaced it with the
same model.

Now , the computer boots up , CCFL lit for a few seconds but shuts
down after.

Is is possible the the CCFL is bad also ?

Thanks for your help...

It's possible. When the image first appears, is there a pinkish hue?
Also, inspect the wires from the inverter to the CCFL carefully.

PlainBill- Masquer le texte des messages précédents -

- Afficher le texte des messages précédents -

Model is P200-MB1

Only half of the CCFL lit (kind of pink) and shuts down.
That indicates the tube is old, and dying. It gets a pinkish tint
and the current rises. Replace the tube and you will have a good
display.

PlainBill


Does one inverter supply two tubes? And if disconnecting the problematic
tube , as a proving exercise, do you have to mitigate for overdrive to
the
single tube, even for say 5 seconds of proving use?

It varies with the design. I'm more familiar with the full fledged
inverters found in monitors, but it is very common to see one inverter
system driving 4 or even more tubes. The 'system' consists of a
single controller, drivers driving 1 to 6 (or more) transformers, and
each transformer driving one, two or four tubes. The system contains
circuitry which monitors the current through and the voltage across
each tube. The largest single part of the circuit is the transformer,
and even those can be less than 12mm (1/2") on a side.

PlainBill

I was wondering , with a shared inverter, how they avoided possibility of
one tube striking and the other one not .
 
On Thu, 25 Aug 2011 08:14:54 +0100, "N_Cook" <diverse@tcp.co.uk>
wrote:

PlainBill@yawhoo.com> wrote in message
news:clea57d4cas684gdgc4bm0r96uq0a7he07@4ax.com...
On Wed, 24 Aug 2011 08:26:30 +0100, "N_Cook" <diverse@tcp.co.uk
wrote:

PlainBill@yawhoo.com> wrote in message
news:7ap7571g82d5hcnhl8b0b1u1c7j5urbeb5@4ax.com...
On Mon, 22 Aug 2011 14:19:37 -0700 (PDT), benitos
bentech2001@gmail.com> wrote:

On 22 aoűt, 15:28, PlainB...@yawhoo.com wrote:
On Mon, 22 Aug 2011 08:37:16 -0700 (PDT), benitos





bentech2...@gmail.com> wrote:
Hi ,

Have a Toshiba Satellite laptop with a "no display" symptom.

After checking it, i can notice a very dim picture , the CCFL
doesn't
lit.

After opening it , I found that the inverter had a fuse open .

Replace the fuse but after , the computer did not power up.

There was a short on the inverter boards so I replaced it with the
same model.

Now , the computer boots up , CCFL lit for a few seconds but shuts
down after.

Is is possible the the CCFL is bad also ?

Thanks for your help...

It's possible. When the image first appears, is there a pinkish hue?
Also, inspect the wires from the inverter to the CCFL carefully.

PlainBill- Masquer le texte des messages précédents -

- Afficher le texte des messages précédents -

Model is P200-MB1

Only half of the CCFL lit (kind of pink) and shuts down.
That indicates the tube is old, and dying. It gets a pinkish tint
and the current rises. Replace the tube and you will have a good
display.

PlainBill


Does one inverter supply two tubes? And if disconnecting the problematic
tube , as a proving exercise, do you have to mitigate for overdrive to
the
single tube, even for say 5 seconds of proving use?

It varies with the design. I'm more familiar with the full fledged
inverters found in monitors, but it is very common to see one inverter
system driving 4 or even more tubes. The 'system' consists of a
single controller, drivers driving 1 to 6 (or more) transformers, and
each transformer driving one, two or four tubes. The system contains
circuitry which monitors the current through and the voltage across
each tube. The largest single part of the circuit is the transformer,
and even those can be less than 12mm (1/2") on a side.

PlainBill


I was wondering , with a shared inverter, how they avoided possibility of
one tube striking and the other one not .


Matched tubes? Good design? Shared transformer designs also have
small capacitors between the hot side of the transformer and each
CCFL.

If you google the part number of many inverter controllers you can
find extensive information on how to design an inverter.

PlainBill
 
PlainBill@yawhoo.com wrote in
news:n8gd57hcl4v8f2ortfue0r4qkhd7ke4bce@4ax.com:

On Thu, 25 Aug 2011 08:14:54 +0100, "N_Cook" <diverse@tcp.co.uk
wrote:

PlainBill@yawhoo.com> wrote in message
news:clea57d4cas684gdgc4bm0r96uq0a7he07@4ax.com...
On Wed, 24 Aug 2011 08:26:30 +0100, "N_Cook" <diverse@tcp.co.uk
wrote:

PlainBill@yawhoo.com> wrote in message
news:7ap7571g82d5hcnhl8b0b1u1c7j5urbeb5@4ax.com...
On Mon, 22 Aug 2011 14:19:37 -0700 (PDT), benitos
bentech2001@gmail.com> wrote:

On 22 aoűt, 15:28, PlainB...@yawhoo.com wrote:
On Mon, 22 Aug 2011 08:37:16 -0700 (PDT), benitos





bentech2...@gmail.com> wrote:
Hi ,

Have a Toshiba Satellite laptop with a "no display" symptom.

After checking it, i can notice a very dim picture , the CCFL
doesn't
lit.

After opening it , I found that the inverter had a fuse open
.

Replace the fuse but after , the computer did not power up.

There was a short on the inverter boards so I replaced it
with the same model.

Now , the computer boots up , CCFL lit for a few seconds but
shuts down after.

Is is possible the the CCFL is bad also ?

Thanks for your help...

It's possible. When the image first appears, is there a
pinkish hue? Also, inspect the wires from the inverter to the
CCFL carefully.

PlainBill- Masquer le texte des messages précédents -

- Afficher le texte des messages précédents -

Model is P200-MB1

Only half of the CCFL lit (kind of pink) and shuts down.
That indicates the tube is old, and dying. It gets a pinkish
tint and the current rises. Replace the tube and you will have a
good display.

PlainBill


Does one inverter supply two tubes? And if disconnecting the
problematic tube , as a proving exercise, do you have to mitigate
for overdrive to
the
single tube, even for say 5 seconds of proving use?

It varies with the design. I'm more familiar with the full fledged
inverters found in monitors, but it is very common to see one
inverter system driving 4 or even more tubes. The 'system' consists
of a single controller, drivers driving 1 to 6 (or more)
transformers, and each transformer driving one, two or four tubes.
The system contains circuitry which monitors the current through and
the voltage across each tube. The largest single part of the
circuit is the transformer, and even those can be less than 12mm
(1/2") on a side.

PlainBill


I was wondering , with a shared inverter, how they avoided possibility
of one tube striking and the other one not .


Matched tubes? Good design? Shared transformer designs also have
small capacitors between the hot side of the transformer and each
CCFL.

If you google the part number of many inverter controllers you can
find extensive information on how to design an inverter.

PlainBill
I've read that that cap acts as a short(low-
Z load) until the tube fires,then the tube is lower resistance.

--
Jim Yanik
jyanik
at
localnet
dot com
 
On Aug 23, 1:42 pm, PlainB...@yawhoo.com wrote:
On Mon, 22 Aug 2011 14:19:37 -0700 (PDT), benitos





bentech2...@gmail.com> wrote:
On 22 aoűt, 15:28, PlainB...@yawhoo.com wrote:
On Mon, 22 Aug 2011 08:37:16 -0700 (PDT), benitos

bentech2...@gmail.com> wrote:
Hi ,

Have a Toshiba Satellite laptop with a "no display" symptom.

After checking it, i can notice a very dim picture , the CCFL doesn't
lit.

After opening it , I found that the inverter had a fuse open .

Replace the fuse but after , the computer did not power up.

There was a short on the inverter boards so I replaced it with the
same model.

Now , the computer boots up , CCFL lit for a few seconds but shuts
down after.

Is is possible the the CCFL is bad also ?

Thanks for your help...

It's possible.  When the image first appears, is there a pinkish hue?
Also, inspect the wires from the inverter to the CCFL carefully.

PlainBill- Masquer le texte des messages précédents -

- Afficher le texte des messages précédents -

Model is P200-MB1

Only half of the CCFL lit (kind of pink) and shuts down.

That indicates the tube is old, and dying.   It gets a pinkish tint
and the current rises.  Replace the tube and you will have a good
display.

PlainBill- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -
Hi , changed the INVERTER and CCFL and samething. Tube lit only half
and shuts down after a few seconds...


Any clue ?
 

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