Casio Keybpard

Not sure of the model as it is not in front of me. Anyway this is a full 88 digital piano with pressure sense, or whatever you call it that makes it play louder when you hit the keys harder. More than an electric organ with a piano voice. Might be worth fixing.

Three keys do not work. I got the thing apart and can see how it is, there is a rubber thingie under the keys and a circuit board. In the begnning I was hoping for a piece broken off the key and maybe I could do something with glue and grinders. Nope, that thing underneath is defective.

It has an overlay made out of the same shit as the buttons on a remote control it appears. Howeever of course there is more to it than just a simple set of contacts and a carbon inpregnated rubber pad. Bigger too. And it does not want to come off.

Can't seem to get a print on it. I THINK the model is WK-200 but that is completely from memory, not my strong suit. Without a print there are no part numbers so even if the parts are available there is no way to get them.

Has anyone had any luck fixing these things ? Another thing is IF I can get parts, should I just change them all ? It occurs to me now to note the three keys, are they part of a chord ? Maybe the previous owner played that chord so much he wore it out. Or maybe it just went bad from age. It the latter is the case it might be better to change them all.

Really it looked like a D major but I simply was not paying attention to that at the time. I'll find out next time into it.

Are there any standard parts, to some extent ? I know it's dounbbtful but I figurre I would ask anyway.

Someone said that Radio Shack's keyboards are made by Casio. I wonder if it is worth a shot to approach them for parts as much as I hate to do it. Money is money. Decent digital pianos for for money, I payed $500 for mine and that is considered cheap, especially that is has the weighted keys. It feels like playing a piano. This model here does not have weighted keys but it seems to have everything else.

It's probably not worth ridiculous money, but something. And they do seem to sell.

What's more, this is a little like practice now. There are alot more expensive units laying around that I will eventually be into. Korgs, Rolands n shit like that. In fact they got a polysynth there. I'll try to get a picture of it, it is neat. Literally probably from about 1970. I don't now if it works, but I am the "electric dude" so if it doesn't I guess I will be on that sooner or later.

 

[Mike]

On Mon, 19 Jan 2015 19:50:33 -0800, jurb6006 wrote:

...
Has anyone had any luck fixing these things ?

Not a Casio but a Yamaha. Four keys did not work (out of 61). Nothing
wrong with the keys. But the electronics consisted in several PCB
connected by plugged-in cables. I just gave all connectors a good clean
and wiggle and all keys have worked since... Worth trying?

Mike.

 

Hmmm. Might have to take it apart further to get an idea what wire is what. In this case there are no plugs, but that doesn't mean some connections cannot fail. I can see taking that whole thing apart is going to make a frightful mess. There are sets of keys and the sets I have off now are not all the same. I can't just throw them in a box, I'll have to lay them out in order. then I can really get a look at the board.

There are not 88 wires going to the other part of the thing so they must be scanned/multiplexed somehow. There are probably pulses on them. Somehow I could determine what wires are what, and find maybe the pulses are missing on the non-working keys. If that's the case then it is not thw rubber thingie at all.

 

[Tim R]

On Monday, January 19, 2015 at 10:50:36 PM UTC-5, jurb...@gmail.com wrote:

Might be worth fixing.

Highly doubtful.

These are touch sensitive, not weighted keys. I've bought several, because I needed MIDI out for a project. I never paid more than $20 at a yard sale and usually $10 was enough. They just aren't good enough for any serious musician, and as a toy people get tired of them fast and they collect dust..

Trash it and buy one that works.

 

>"Trash it and buy one that works. "

This is almost like a learning experience. Toward the end of the day, I had finally finished a Yorkville powered mixer that needed about a pound of solder, a giutar amp and a Crate head. So down to the last half hour I was "Well what now ?". Some of the cheaper keyboards can be fixed if all they need is some soldering or in a couple of cases the output chip of they have speakers. I've blown off quite a few better keyboards than that.

Had one that was stuck in sustain and that other thing, port something which akes it slide to the next note. That is without the pedals even plugged in. I traced the pulses all the way through the chips and shit and the micro is getting the proper pulses to NOT be in sustain and whatever, so that is blown off and it is a higher end Yamaha.

Being a store we get a little bit more than twenty bucks for something like this, but not alot. I'm hoping that there is some similarity to the good ones that are in fact, worth fixing. I'm figuring out how this stuff is put together.

In fact you could say that about all that stuff. I fixed TVs for decades, and I wasn't bad at it if I do say so myself. When their value went in the shitter I went on to bigscreens and specialised in that. Now, those $4,000 HD projos with the smartcard reader and hi def tuner and every concievable bell and whistle, you can't giv them away. Well you can and they do on Craigslist but only if they work. You can't get the cost of one STK 392 out of them anymore unless you find just the right buyer. Toward the end of my last TV job, best you could do was maybe a couple hundred. Maybe, and that's with a warranty. That's why I worked on the plasmas and LCDs. Of course the parts exceed the value of the set so, alot of those got blown off. The only thing people would really put money into was plasmas and I fixed a shitload of them. Alot of Ysus and buffers and power supplies. When it gets to the main board sometimes the thing goes in the boneyard and that's that.

Not that they have all that much money, but musicians are a little bit like (and I hate to use the term because I resemble it some) audiophools. They like the tube stuff, and even older solid state stuff.

It's wierd. At flat response I can hear the difference between my Pioneer 850 and POhase Linear 400/2. At flat response there should beno difference. I have checked them with a 1,000 Hz square wave and they both reproduce that perfectly art flat response/tone off. the other day my buddy brough ove two CD players, well changers and one was a DVD changer. He heard a difference between them.

Now come on, he is 66. I am 54 and my ears are shot. I have a hard time understand certain people, like with higher voices. Yet I can hear the difference between two amps. Why ? Is it because the damping factor is 1,000 on the Phase Linear ? Well that might have something to do with it but I am nopt using that audionut speaker wire so half of that dampindg factor i s spent in that resistance.

I have decided to try to expand that guy's business more into some high end audio. He is all for it it seems. I actually do some of that in my basement. On occasion I could take equipment there with me.

He made the case to me about that, and he's right. You have people who have mice expensive old equipment that you can't get anymore, they are alot more comfortable with taking it to a real brick and mortar rather than some guys garage. So he gets some of that profit for having the brick and mortar.

Again, I have been offered autonomy in this. Run it. Your money is separate, do whatever you want but either pay rent or pay rent by doing work for the company. I have turned down a half dozen offers like that, but this locartion is so damn good I am tempted. I just don't like those deals. I would have to stock up all the parts and all that. And honestly I do not know this business all that well yet. I am a quick study for sure, but I've only been in the business for about a month or so.

Really, I think the crossover between music equipment and high end audio would be smooth. Of course if we do that I have to have a talk with them about the shop stereo. I mean one of the "speakers" is a guitar amp. We can do better than that.

At least I am used to the high end audio beecause I did it as it came in at other shops and I am a bit of an afficianado. (sp) But music ? the other week in comes a keyboard. they call me to the floor and the guy is wearing sliver boots and, well, I would say wants to be a rhinestone cowboy or something like that. The USB jack on the keyboard is all frigged up. Well I said OK, he asks should he wait and I told him no, we do not have the jack, plus we have to see if the board is cracked or anything. Next couple days I order the jack, install it and I go to the counter guy and say hey, he should bring in the AC adapter so we can test this thing. He says no, that is a MIDI controller. Sure as shit, there is no audio output on it and no speakers.

Which brings up another question, which I will start a thread on. I have seruiously hiujacked my own thread here which is OK really. That Casio probably won't be fixed. No print means no part numbers. Elcheapo Casio means no parts probably at all. But if I could fix it, well that would be better than not, right ? Just not a high buck job. It happens. Sometimes I am working on something that is only worth twenty bucks, but if I can get it fixed fast, why not ?

Anyway, off to ask my question. Thanks all.

 

[hrhofmann@sbcglobal.net]

Unless it is a simple mechanical problem, keyboards are not worht spending time on. Cheaper to go to a Pawn Shop and get a new working one.

 

[Phil Allison]

jurb...@gmail.com wrote:

Not that they have all that much money, but musicians are a little bit like (and I hate to use the term because I resemble it some) audiophools. They like the tube stuff, and even older solid state stuff.

** IME, musicians are even worse than audiophools.

Audiphools listen only to recorded music with a bunch of equipment they know and can see, decided if they like the sound or not and blame the least likely piece of equipment for the latter outcome.

Musicians listen to THEMSELVES playing via equipment they know, can see and fiddle with, decide if they like the sound and blame the equipment if they do not.

> It's wierd. At flat response I can hear the difference between my Pioneer 850 and POhase Linear 400/2. At flat response there should beno difference.. I have checked them with a 1,000 Hz square wave and they both reproduce that perfectly art flat response/tone off. the other day my buddy brough ove two CD players, well changers and one was a DVD changer. He heard a difference between them.

** All depends how you do the listening test.

The usual "sample of music via A followed by the same sample via B" always produces an audible difference - even when A and B are the exact same item.

Famous saying: " Human audio memory is short and treacherous "

For a valid test, the listener must NOT be aware of which item ( brand, model etc) is in use at any point in time and must NOT have to remember what was previously heard. How the hell do you do that ??

It's simple - make it possible for the listener to instantly swap items WHILE music is playing, any time they chose. Also make sure there is no change in level when this happens. IOW use a remote operated relay to do the switching and give the listener the button.

With a pair of items that one would reasonably expect ( based on performance testing ) to sound exactly the same - they now do.

With a pair of amplifiers, this is easy - the relay ( DPCO type ) merely switches the speakers from one amp to the other. Long as the levels are matched and the outputs are in phase, this produces a seamless result - ie no audible click or interruption.

I have done this test many times and the reaction from listeners is always the same: "Phil, the button is not working".

So I switch one amp off and prove that it is.



..... Phil

 

>"So I switch one amp off and prove that it is. "

The acid test. That means if they don't notice, they might be on acid. It's like they have an echoplex in their head.

OH BY THE WAY ! That Watkins I kinda fixed, it says "Watkins Gould". It says "Made for Gould guitars..." and some shit. I knew it didn't say what you said it is supposed to say but now I remember what. Gould. Apparently in England there is/was a Gould guitar company and they had some of these made in their name.

I replaced he tape in it and now it works. However the second head is defective. Push the middle bitton and it gets all kinds of noisy.

Here's a guy who went nuts over one of these things :

http://www.backfromthesixties.co.uk/watkins_copicat_mkii

The actual print is down the page. The play heads are all in series and switches short them out. Damn, I would have spared the horses or whatever and got a whole nother 12AX7 for three bucks and had it alot better.

This one has been fitted with an RCA plug for the output.

I got a possible source for a head number two, which is defective. Real noisy and no sound, at least recorded sound. Haven't checke the DC resistance yet but I suspect I will find it open.

I actually might have one. Ex bor-in-law statyed here fro a little bit and he left an old Bell And Howell. The head in that is a half track. So are these. I looked./ I looked when I first saw the thing, I wanted to see a full track head but nope, they did not get their feet that deep into it and just used half track heads.

Nother thing, this unit looks a little different than the one on that page. It REALLY looks like the heads are just screwed down and that is that. Really, if the tape speed is fast enough the azimuth is not all that critical, and we are talking what, 1950 here ? In tis one it really looks like the heads just screw down and that'ss that.

Next time in I will tear into that middle head that doesn't work. Hey, maybe I find a wire needs soldered. One thing about this job is now I know why they bought the thicker solder. I use it by the pound, pretty much. Over 80 % of my preapirs only involve solder and of course my time. Been there over a month and only ordered capacitors once. that should tellya something. Well one that it is not ful time and all that. I kinda wish it was. Whip me back into shape. I'm not that old. Well...

Enough for now, people have a limit on how much of my bullshit they can take. Not that it was bullshit, I have no reason to lie. but it was bullshit because it is not about what the topic was. What was that ? I'll have to hit the bacvk button to find out...lol

 

>"** IME, musicians are even worse than audiophools. "

Are you familiar with the phrase "Cash Cow" ?

 

On Friday, January 23, 2015 at 6:53:40 PM UTC-5, Phil Allison wrote:

jurb...@gmail.com wrote:

Not that they have all that much money, but musicians are a little bit like (and I hate to use the term because I resemble it some) audiophools. They like the tube stuff, and even older solid state stuff.

** IME, musicians are even worse than audiophools.

Audiphools listen only to recorded music with a bunch of equipment they know and can see, decided if they like the sound or not and blame the least likely piece of equipment for the latter outcome.

Musicians listen to THEMSELVES playing via equipment they
know, can see and fiddle with, decide if they like the sound
and blame the equipment if they do not.

Its pretty crazy.

jurb...@gmail.com was saying that people don't want to read bullshit like this, but I disagree. A lot of this (from a 1960's music perspective) is not weird, but still ... its and odd perspective.

You have a 15 year old kid about to enter college in an electrical engineering program. What's he (or she) thinking in a sniveling bratty manner? Probably:

"what? you mean you MANUALLY play a guitar? a synthesizer? drums? You're joking right? me and my friends make use our phones to design an interface, CPU, memory, power processor and audio and other hardware all to fit in a microscopic compartment so small, you can't even see it. In some cases - even with a microscope. Because its so small, it will use less energy."

Comparing stuff like that with more "traditional" music design and repair that you are used to just makes the whole thing look odd. But hey, it all works if you are comfy, right?.

 

>"You have a 15 year old kid about to enter college in an electrical engineering >program. What's he (or she) thinking in a sniveling bratty manner? "

Actually I thinkj those who go for that have a better, or at least more practical (in a perfect world) mind than those who decide to go for liberal arts. My ilk and I call liberal arts - "basket weaving". Unfortunately that partly applies to musicians. Most of them have regular jobs. One of the best musicians I know is a tileman by day. This guy composed and arrainged a song, and then by overdubbing recorded the whole thing I know. Played the drums, then the bass, then guitar, then lead guitar then keyboards and then sang it.

He is still a tileman. the way he is meticulous about shit I would estimate that he is pretty good at it and probably makes decent money. He has played alot of gigs, like at bars and other bvenues, there are a couple of CDs. However, it is like a jump in that business. You are a starving artist until you are not. That is how it is until you curry the favor of a music mogul and he decides that you will be promoted and all that. Of course now if it sells fast enought to make your money before it hits P2P and youtube, you might do alright.

I have my opinion on the industry and it is not really what one would call favorable. The old days is how it should be. Local bands send in a tape to the local radio station. They answer the damn phohe and people give their opinion sometimes. Sometimes the DJ just likes it and there weren't twenty fucking lawyers there to sue for royalties right away. They new the value of and appreciated the exposure, which amounts to free advertising if it is any good.

That's pretty much how buddy Holly got started from what I hear. They thought the group was Black. Holly had sent a demo tape to a record company I think, and THEY sent it to a radio station. By the time they got ahold of Holly they owed him $70,000. If the stories are true, he also got a gig at the Apollo which is all Black. He got a telegram said "be here, pay is $___" and then when he got there the owner thought a White band would cause a riot.. Holly said "OK just give me the money and I'll go home", which didn't set well. The guy let them go on the stage, and instead of a riot, the peopolel were dancing in the aisles. Well maybe a riot but a good one. No looting even, but this was the 1950s.

I think the whole industry is fucked up now. I have no idea how one gets "discovered" these days. And the quality ? Let's just say that P2P is not the only reason the industry is not making what it once did.

By the time my generation dies off, nobody will probably buy music and it will become a hobby. Seriously, there is no way to enforce copyrights. I got Adobe Audition and it will record through hardware in formats that make a CD look like an eight track tape. It cannot be stopped from recording. This is the ultimate thing the RIAA as afraid of. They were afraid of CD recorders to the point where they made the manufacturers require only music CD blanks would work, and got royalties in advance on the blank media itsaelf. they were not afraid of cassettes. Sure, you could record some off an albul to a cassette to listen to it in your car. but the quality wasn't there.

gotta run, this thing doesn't seem to have a save and send later function so I will pontificate more later. the music iundustry is an interesting subject, moreso than a Casio keyboard so, the hijack is fine.

 

jurb...@gmail.com wrote:

"You have a 15 year old kid about to
enter college in an electrical
engineering >program.  What's he (or >> she) thinking in a sniveling bratty
manner? " 

Actually I thinkj those who go for
that have a better, or at least more
practical (in a perfect world) mind
than those who decide to go for liberal > arts. My ilk and I call liberal arts - > "basket weaving". Unfortunately that
partly applies to musicians. Most of
them 

Yeah, I imagine that's been the question almost forever. How does someone get famous throwing concert after concert?

Do a bunch of statisticians get together at audition after audition and poll audiences on which person for which part is best and the money people come in and finance the show based on the poll results?

I wouldn't be surprised.

 

jurb...@gmail.com wrote:

"You have a 15 year old kid about to
enter college in an electrical
engineering >program.  What's he (or >> she) thinking in a sniveling bratty
manner? " 

Actually I thinkj those who go for
that have a better, or at least more
practical (in a perfect world) mind
than those who decide to go for liberal > arts. My ilk and I call liberal arts - > "basket weaving". Unfortunately that
partly applies to musicians. Most of
them 

Yeah, I imagine that's been the question almost forever. How does someone get famous throwing concert after concert?

Do a bunch of statisticians get together at audition after audition and poll audiences on which person for which part is best and the money people come in and finance the show based on the poll results?

I wouldn't be surprised.

 

[Phil Allison]

jurb...@gmail.com wrote:

OH BY THE WAY ! That Watkins I kinda fixed, it says "Watkins Gould". It says "Made for Gould guitars..." and some shit. I knew it didn't say what you said it is supposed to say but now I remember what. Gould. Apparently in England there is/was a Gould guitar company and they had some of these made in their name.

** That would be " WATKINS GUILD" .

Guild are an American guitar maker who also badged the Binson Ecorec as Guild.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guild_Guitar_Company


..... Phil

 

OK, I didn't have it in front of me. Giuld, Gould, so it is Guild. Of England actually. really, England is a misnomers because it has not existed fro hundreds of years. Sposed to call it "Britan". Prissy little bitch.

Anyway, my ex-brother-in-law left and old Bell and Howell over here and it is a half track. I am pretty sure I am going to take the head out of that and put it in the Watkins. i will tell tyhem that I went through hell and high water to get this motherfuckers, thought really I was about to throw it out. But he owes us money so, maybe just figure it for some of that. not much though, if I lived in certain places it would cost me more to get rid of the carcass than I could even make on the tape head.

Another thing is the impedance, I hope it is close enough. Surely there is an optimum range and they bothj are in it. the only difference is the replacement will be a record/play when the original was only a play. Usually the difference is that the record/play has a slightly wider gap, which helps the record signal penetrate the tape better, whereas the optimum play gap is smaller to catch the higher frequencies.

But this thing should at least work. Plus the fact that in what the fuck, 1 this was built, did they care ?

Actually they never really cared, what the fuck am I talking about ?

Yup, Monday in comes the Bell and Howell. If the head works, then it does. If it does not work then I am back to tryingto find those hen's teeth again..

 

[Phil Allison]

jurb...@gmail.com wrote:

OK, I didn't have it in front of me. Giuld, Gould, so it is Guild. Of England actually.

** No. Guild is an AMERICAN company, based around New York in the early days.

WEM is an English company, based in London.

Founder and owner Charley Watkins died only a few months ago.

http://www.musicindustrynews.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/16/2014/11/image.jpg


> England is a misnomers because it has not existed fro hundreds of years.

** England exists.

It's what remains once you remove, Scotland, Northern Ireland and Wales from the UK.


..... Phil