Can fluorescent light emitters be small enough for a monitor

G

GreenXenon

Guest
Hi:

Is it possible to make fluorescent light emitters that are small
enough to be the Rs, Gs, and Bs of the pixels of monitors/screens?

Currently most displays use the fluorescent light as a backlight. I'm
currently daydreaming about a hypothetical display in which each R, G,
B of each pixel is an extremely small fluorescent light emitter of
it's own. The problem here is making the fluorescent emitters small
enough. Can this be done, give the state of today's technology. I
doubt it.


Thanks,

Green Xenon
 
I should add that in this type of display, unlike LCDs*, not only does
each R, G, and B of each pixel have it's own emit it's own fluorescent
light but also, the intensity of the emission depend on the how many
watts of of electricity enter the given R, G, or B of the given pixel.

If an R, G, or B, of a given pixel is hit with more watts, then the R,
G, or B [whichever one is "hit"] will emit a high-intensity light than
if it is supplied with less watts.

In addition, this hypothetical monitor/screen is digital.

*LCDs do the opposite. A higher wattage results in a darker shade.
 
GreenXenon wrote:
Hi:

Is it possible to make fluorescent light emitters that are small
enough to be the Rs, Gs, and Bs of the pixels of monitors/screens?

Currently most displays use the fluorescent light as a backlight. I'm
currently daydreaming about a hypothetical display in which each R, G,
B of each pixel is an extremely small fluorescent light emitter of
it's own. The problem here is making the fluorescent emitters small
enough. Can this be done, give the state of today's technology. I
doubt it.


Thanks,

Green Xenon
You can only make them with T.R.O.L.L. procedures.
Click to expand...
 
In <6db49fc1-4bd9-469b-a0f5-e131c1d104b2@a39g2000prb.googlegroups.com>,
GreenXenon wrote:

Is it possible to make fluorescent light emitters that are small
enough to be the Rs, Gs, and Bs of the pixels of monitors/screens?

Currently most displays use the fluorescent light as a backlight. I'm
currently daydreaming about a hypothetical display in which each R, G,
B of each pixel is an extremely small fluorescent light emitter of
it's own. The problem here is making the fluorescent emitters small
enough. Can this be done, give the state of today's technology. I
doubt it.
Click to expand...
There is an existing display technology where each pixel is a
fluorescent emitter excited by its own individual glow discharge lamp. I
am guessing that these glow lamps use a neon-xenon mixture or the like to
avoid the temperature dependence of mercury vapor. I also know that
neon-xenon has been used in fluorescent glow lamps.

Back to this technology: The large number of glow lamps and associated
phosphor dots are deployed in a common envelope, so there are not millions
of individual bulbs.

This is what is used in plasma TV sets.

The choice of phosphors is limited to ones that will not degrade at an
unacceptable rate from the likely very short excitation wavelength (147
nm for xenon's main "resonance line" IIRC). In practicality, the choice
is further limited to having the primary colors sufficiently similar to
those in other display technologies (such as CRT) to maintain compatibility
of color gamut.

--
- Don Klipstein (don@misty.com)
 
On May 24, 11:07 am, d...@manx.misty.com (Don Klipstein) wrote:
In <6db49fc1-4bd9-469b-a0f5-e131c1d10...@a39g2000prb.googlegroups.com>,

GreenXenon wrote:
Is it possible to make fluorescent light emitters that are small
enough to be the Rs, Gs, and Bs of the pixels of monitors/screens?

Currently most displays use the fluorescent light as a backlight. I'm
currently daydreaming about a hypothetical display in which each R, G,
B of each pixel is an extremely small fluorescent light emitter of
it's own. The problem here is making the fluorescent emitters small
enough. Can this be done, give the state of today's technology. I
doubt it.

  There is an existing display technology where each pixel is a
fluorescent emitter excited by its own individual glow discharge lamp.  I
am guessing that these glow lamps use a neon-xenon mixture or the like to
avoid the temperature dependence of mercury vapor.  I also know that
neon-xenon has been used in fluorescent glow lamps.

  Back to this technology:  The large number of glow lamps and associated
phosphor dots are deployed in a common envelope, so there are not millions
of individual bulbs.

  This is what is used in plasma TV sets.
Click to expand...

Quote from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plasma_display#How_plasma_displays_work
:

"Plasma panels use pulse-width modulation to control brightness"

This is different from the hypothetical display I was discussing in
which the intensity of light emitted from a subpixel is determined by
the wattage of electricity applied to that subpixel.


  The choice of phosphors is limited to ones that will not degrade at an
unacceptable rate from the likely very short excitation wavelength (147
nm for xenon's main "resonance line" IIRC).  In practicality, the choice
is further limited to having the primary colors sufficiently similar to
those in other display technologies (such as CRT) to maintain compatibility
of color gamut.
Click to expand...
 
In <bd1b6deb-29cf-42ed-8922-279795783b62@x27g2000prf.googlegroups.com>,
GreenXenon wrote:

On May 24, 11:07 am, d...@manx.misty.com (Don Klipstein) wrote:
In <6db49fc1-4bd9-469b-a0f5-e131c1d10...@a39g2000prb.googlegroups.com>,

GreenXenon wrote:
Is it possible to make fluorescent light emitters that are small
enough to be the Rs, Gs, and Bs of the pixels of monitors/screens?

Currently most displays use the fluorescent light as a backlight. I'm
currently daydreaming about a hypothetical display in which each R, G,
B of each pixel is an extremely small fluorescent light emitter of
it's own. The problem here is making the fluorescent emitters small
enough. Can this be done, give the state of today's technology. I
doubt it.

  There is an existing display technology where each pixel is a
fluorescent emitter excited by its own individual glow discharge lamp.  I
am guessing that these glow lamps use a neon-xenon mixture or the like to
avoid the temperature dependence of mercury vapor.  I also know that
neon-xenon has been used in fluorescent glow lamps.

  Back to this technology:  The large number of glow lamps and associated
phosphor dots are deployed in a common envelope, so there are not millions
of individual bulbs.

  This is what is used in plasma TV sets.


Quote from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plasma_display#
How_plasma_displays_work
:

"Plasma panels use pulse-width modulation to control brightness"

This is different from the hypothetical display I was discussing in
which the intensity of light emitted from a subpixel is determined by
the wattage of electricity applied to that subpixel.
Click to expand...
So, then you are talking about desire for an analog plasma monitor. A
plasma monitor will work whether output from each subpixel is varied by
varying the glow current or the duty cycle.

For that matter, varying duty cycle does vary the wattage.

- Don Klipstein (don@misty.com)
 
On May 24, 1:24 pm, d...@manx.misty.com (Don Klipstein) wrote:


  So, then you are talking about desire for an analog plasma monitor.  A
plasma monitor will work whether output from each subpixel is varied by
varying the glow current or the duty cycle.
Click to expand...

What is "glow current"? I did a google search but didn't see any clear
definition.
 
In <48e6c370-b06f-4b40-bfb8-fc9d4e5d3832@a16g2000prg.googlegroups.com>,
GreenXenon wrote:

On May 24, 1:24 pm, d...@manx.misty.com (Don Klipstein) wrote:

  So, then you are talking about desire for an analog plasma monitor.  A
plasma monitor will work whether output from each subpixel is varied by
varying the glow current or the duty cycle.

What is "glow current"? I did a google search but didn't see any clear
definition.
Click to expand...
Maybe I could have said it better as the amount of current sent through
the glow discharge in the subpixel.

--
- Don Klipstein (don@misty.com)
 
On May 24, 4:33 pm, d...@manx.misty.com (Don Klipstein) wrote:


In <48e6c370-b06f-4b40-bfb8-fc9d4e5d3...@a16g2000prg.googlegroups.com>,

GreenXenon wrote:
Click to expand...

On May 24, 1:24 pm, d...@manx.misty.com (Don Klipstein) wrote:
Click to expand...

  So, then you are talking about desire for an analog plasma monitor..  A
plasma monitor will work whether output from each subpixel is varied by
varying the glow current or the duty cycle.
Click to expand...

What is "glow current"? I did a google search but didn't see any clear
definition.
Click to expand...

  Maybe I could have said it better as the amount of current sent through
the glow discharge in the subpixel.
Click to expand...

Does this mean a stronger current will cause the subpixel to emit a
more-intense light than a weaker current?
 
In <fcc7cf82-c040-47a8-a5fa-7e8ec2cf8641@y6g2000pra.googlegroups.com>,
GreenXenon wrote:

On May 24, 4:33 pm, d...@manx.misty.com (Don Klipstein) wrote:

In <48e6c370-b06f-4b40-bfb8-fc9d4e5d3...@a16g2000prg.googlegroups.com>,

GreenXenon wrote:

On May 24, 1:24 pm, d...@manx.misty.com (Don Klipstein) wrote:

  So, then you are talking about desire for an analog plasma monitor.  A
plasma monitor will work whether output from each subpixel is varied by
varying the glow current or the duty cycle.

What is "glow current"? I did a google search but didn't see any clear
definition.

  Maybe I could have said it better as the amount of current sent through
the glow discharge in the subpixel.

Does this mean a stronger current will cause the subpixel to emit a
more-intense light than a weaker current?
Click to expand...
Yes, that is true. That is true even in the case of the so-far-practiced
"single bulb enlosed array units" used in plasma TV sets.

- Don Klipstein (don@misty.com)
 
On May 24, 9:10 pm, d...@manx.misty.com (Don Klipstein) wrote:
In <fcc7cf82-c040-47a8-a5fa-7e8ec2cf8...@y6g2000pra.googlegroups.com>,



GreenXenon wrote:
On May 24, 4:33 pm, d...@manx.misty.com (Don Klipstein) wrote:

In <48e6c370-b06f-4b40-bfb8-fc9d4e5d3...@a16g2000prg.googlegroups.com>,

GreenXenon wrote:

On May 24, 1:24 pm, d...@manx.misty.com (Don Klipstein) wrote:

  So, then you are talking about desire for an analog plasma monitor.  A
plasma monitor will work whether output from each subpixel is varied by
varying the glow current or the duty cycle.

What is "glow current"? I did a google search but didn't see any clear
definition.

  Maybe I could have said it better as the amount of current sent through
the glow discharge in the subpixel.

Does this mean a stronger current will cause the subpixel to emit a
more-intense light than a weaker current?

  Yes, that is true.  That is true even in the case of the so-far-practiced
"single bulb enlosed array units" used in plasma TV sets.

 - Don Klipstein (d...@misty.com)
Click to expand...

What happens if one attempts to force a subpixel to emit an intensity
of light far greater what the subpixel is capable of?
 
In <c8e1678f-4b0c-473b-b0ec-16ded0d74b1e@a27g2000prj.googlegroups.com>,
GreenXenon wrote:

<SNIP to here to edit for space>

What happens if one attempts to force a subpixel to emit an intensity
of light far greater what the subpixel is capable of?
Click to expand...
I would guess the same thing as with a neon glow lamp. The result is an
excessiverate of sputtering of the cathode material. Sputtering is
dislodgement of cathode material atoms by positive ions. The result
resembles evaporation. It gets much worse when "abnormal glow" occurs.
"Abnormal glow" is glow discharge with above-normal voltage drop in the
cathode layers of the glow due to current density exceeding a natural
current density of the cathode layers of the glow discharge.

It appears to me that sputtered cathode material would darken the
subpixel and possibly darken adjacent subpixels.

--
- Don Klipstein (don@misty.com)
 
On Fri, 28 May 2010, Don Klipstein wrote:

In <c8e1678f-4b0c-473b-b0ec-16ded0d74b1e@a27g2000prj.googlegroups.com>,
GreenXenon wrote:

SNIP to here to edit for space

What happens if one attempts to force a subpixel to emit an intensity
of light far greater what the subpixel is capable of?

I would guess the same thing as with a neon glow lamp. The result is an
excessiverate of sputtering of the cathode material. Sputtering is
dislodgement of cathode material atoms by positive ions. The result
resembles evaporation. It gets much worse when "abnormal glow" occurs.
"Abnormal glow" is glow discharge with above-normal voltage drop in the
cathode layers of the glow due to current density exceeding a natural
current density of the cathode layers of the glow discharge.

It appears to me that sputtered cathode material would darken the
subpixel and possibly darken adjacent subpixels.

LOL!!! That's the best load of bollocks I've read in a long time.
Click to expand...

Cheers,
Pete.
 
LOL!!! That's the best load of bollocks I've read in a long time.

Cheers,
Pete.
Click to expand...
Care to offer a better explanation?

"It's bollocks" doesn't count...

FBt
 
Pete Wilcox wrote:
On Fri, 28 May 2010, Don Klipstein wrote:

In <c8e1678f-4b0c-473b-b0ec-16ded0d74b1e@a27g2000prj.googlegroups.com>,
GreenXenon wrote:

SNIP to here to edit for space

What happens if one attempts to force a subpixel to emit an intensity
of light far greater what the subpixel is capable of?

I would guess the same thing as with a neon glow lamp. The result is an
excessiverate of sputtering of the cathode material. Sputtering is
dislodgement of cathode material atoms by positive ions. The result
resembles evaporation. It gets much worse when "abnormal glow" occurs.
"Abnormal glow" is glow discharge with above-normal voltage drop in the
cathode layers of the glow due to current density exceeding a natural
current density of the cathode layers of the glow discharge.

It appears to me that sputtered cathode material would darken the
subpixel and possibly darken adjacent subpixels.

LOL!!! That's the best load of bollocks I've read in a long time.
Click to expand...

Don't tell Scott. He would be quite upset. ;-)


--
Anyone wanting to run for any political office in the US should have to
have a DD214, and a honorable discharge.
 
On May 27, 5:18 pm, d...@manx.misty.com (Don Klipstein) wrote:
In <c8e1678f-4b0c-473b-b0ec-16ded0d74...@a27g2000prj.googlegroups.com>,

GreenXenon wrote:

SNIP to here to edit for space

What happens if one attempts to force a subpixel to emit an intensity
of light far greater what the subpixel is capable of?

  I would guess the same thing as with a neon glow lamp.  The result is an
excessiverate of sputtering of the cathode material.  Sputtering is
dislodgement of cathode material atoms by positive ions.  The result
resembles evaporation.  It gets much worse when "abnormal glow" occurs.  
"Abnormal glow" is glow discharge with above-normal voltage drop in the
cathode layers of the glow due to current density exceeding a natural
current density of the cathode layers of the glow discharge.

  It appears to me that sputtered cathode material would darken the
subpixel and possibly darken adjacent subpixels.

--
 - Don Klipstein (d...@misty.com)
Click to expand...

What if the subpixel is electrodeless lit via electrodeless
flourescence?

Here is more info on electrodeless flourescent lamps:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electrodeless_lamp#Magnetic_Induction_Lamps_.28AKA_Induction_Lamps.2C_Fluorescent_induction_lamps.29
 
In <701aac7d-8ce7-4144-9568-45e459de0e3f@s4g2000prh.googlegroups.com>,
GreenXenon wrote:

On May 27, 5:18 pm, d...@manx.misty.com (Don Klipstein) wrote:
In <c8e1678f-4b0c-473b-b0ec-16ded0d74...@a27g2000prj.googlegroups.com>,

GreenXenon wrote:

SNIP to here to edit for space

What happens if one attempts to force a subpixel to emit an intensity
of light far greater what the subpixel is capable of?

  I would guess the same thing as with a neon glow lamp.  The result is
an excessive rate of sputtering of the cathode material.  Sputtering is
dislodgement of cathode material atoms by positive ions.  The result
resembles evaporation.  It gets much worse when "abnormal glow" occurs.  
"Abnormal glow" is glow discharge with above-normal voltage drop in the
cathode layers of the glow due to current density exceeding a natural
current density of the cathode layers of the glow discharge.

  It appears to me that sputtered cathode material would darken the
subpixel and possibly darken adjacent subpixels.

What if the subpixel is electrodeless lit via electrodeless
flourescence?
Click to expand...
<SNIP links to that>

Keep in mind that the subpixel is extremely small, and also that there
are a few "economies of scale" that disfavor efficiency as size of the
light-emitting-unit is reduced.

In addition, I have a dislike to adding a million or two primary
windings and the same number of maybe-necessary ferrite cores of a
size, likely-also-shape, yet to be manufactured...

For that matter, I doubt even "4C4" ferrite or "powdered iron" improves
much over no magnetic core at all at the likely-UHF-range frequencies that
would be necessary even in the unlikely event that "4C4" ferrite or
most-finely-powdered favorable iron alloy has little more loss in
watts-per-(volts/turn) terms at 500 MHz as at 30 MHz.

--
- Don Klipstein (don@misty.com)
 
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