Bought a house with a Fuse Box. Should I replace with a Circ

[Zack Schneeberger]

I just bought a house that is wired through a Fuse Box. The outlets in
the entire house are the old-style 2 prong outlets. In order to run an
appliance that requires a ground I have to get a 3 to 2 prong adapter
and run the appliance unprotected.

My question is, should I upgrade the fuse box and replace it with a
circuit breaker. If I did so, would I need to replace every wire in my
entire house or could I just run a ground wire up to every outlet and
install a 3 prong outlet?

Also, I worked for an electrican during a summer so I have a general
understanding of wiring. Could I do this job myself?

Zack

 

[Zack]

Good to hear I can just install a ground bus. How do you correctly
install a ground bus? Can I just go pick up green ground wire from Home
Deopt and start? How do they all the ground wires come together? And
how do I properly ground them? With a copper rod in the ground?

Also, my fuse box is full. I need to add a hot tub as well as some
other appliances. What is the correct way to add a circuit breaker
panel to a house that already has a fuse panel?

Zack

 

Zack,
What kind of wire runs from the box to your outlets? Knob and tube,
asphalt cable, older BX ?? Where are you located?
Richard

 

[Kitchen Man]

On Fri, 18 Feb 2005 10:56:41 -0800, "Larry Brasfield"
<donotspam_larry_brasfield@hotmail.com> wrote:

My question is, should I upgrade the fuse box and replace it with a
circuit breaker. If I did so, would I need to replace every wire in my
entire house or could I just run a ground wire up to every outlet and
install a 3 prong outlet?

That is a question about local code. From a safety
standpoint, your separate ground wire should work
provided the diameter is larger (smaller AWG). If you
are going to get into the walls, why not just install regular
3-wire romex?

That was my thought as well. If you're going to go through the trouble
to pull wires, you might as well replace the old stuff. Replacing the
old wire can make the job easier; the old stuff can be used in place of
a "snake" to pull in the new wire as the old is pulled out. The big
problem with that approach is having large enough diameter holes to
accommodate the attachment point of the new wire to the old. You've got
to make a good solid attachment, and don't overuse force if the cable
pull gets stuck. I'd make it a two-man job, one pulling the old wire,
one guiding the new.

--
Al Brennan

 

[Kitchen Man]

On Fri, 18 Feb 2005 21:51:27 -0500, "Tom Biasi"
<tombiasi@REMOVEoptonline.net> wrote:

Pulling the main breaker doesn't disconnect the supply from the street.
The very nature of these questions indicates that the OP needs advice from a
licensed electrician

That's another thought that occurred to me as I read the OP's followup.
I've seen work by amateurs who thought they knew what they were doing
get botched pretty badly. Especially prevalent are errors in wiring
neutral, apparently under the assumption that since neutral is
effectively zero volts, that adherence to isolating neutral lines by
circuit can be ignored.

--
Al Brennan

 

[Zack]

I don't know how much/if any of the work I would do myself. I really
want to sound knowlegable though when the electrican comes to quote the
job. Otherwise I am going to get ripped off!.

How do I tell the capicity of the service to the house? I assume that
it is directly related to the guage of the wire comming to the house
from the powerlines and from the power meter to the fuse box. Is this
correct?

 

[Larry Brasfield]

"Zack Schneeberger" <schneebie1@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1108751259.464754.124160@c13g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...

I just bought a house that is wired through a Fuse Box. The outlets in
the entire house are the old-style 2 prong outlets. In order to run an
appliance that requires a ground I have to get a 3 to 2 prong adapter
and run the appliance unprotected.

It is you (and other creatures in the same house) that
is unprotected. Appliances will usually run just fine
with their chassis at 120 VAC due to a fault.

My question is, should I upgrade the fuse box and replace it with a
circuit breaker. If I did so, would I need to replace every wire in my
entire house or could I just run a ground wire up to every outlet and
install a 3 prong outlet?

That is a question about local code. From a safety
standpoint, your separate ground wire should work
provided the diameter is larger (smaller AWG). If you
are going to get into the walls, why not just install regular
3-wire romex?

Also, I worked for an electrican during a summer so I have a general
understanding of wiring. Could I do this job myself?

Most jurisdictions have no problem with DIYers, as long
as their work conforms to the applicable codes and the
is done under a permit with required inspections.

Just get yourself a decent, recent book showing how
to wire to the NEC. Give the building department a
call and ask if they have local exceptions to the NEC
that you should worry about for a home wiring job.
In all likelihood, they have not bothered to create
a local modification of the NEC.

Zack

--
--Larry Brasfield
email: donotspam_larry_brasfield@hotmail.com
Above views may belong only to me.

 

[Rodney Kelp]

Fuses are reliable circuit protectors. All you need is a ground bus
installed and run a green ground to all the recepticals and install 3 prong
outlets and GFR's in the kitchen and bathroom. However an insurance moron
will not understand electricty or electronics and will not accept fuses,
therefore you will have to install new 100 amp boxes with circuit breakers
to Please the morons. They also like new 3-wire romex throughout the house.
How much do you want to spend and do you need insurance is the question.
I know the medical profession is dropping insurance companies because the
are becomeing ridiculoius on premiums. Soon the average citizen will realize
that insurance is a rip-off too and drop them!


"Zack Schneeberger" <schneebie1@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1108751259.464754.124160@c13g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...

I just bought a house that is wired through a Fuse Box. The outlets in
the entire house are the old-style 2 prong outlets. In order to run an
appliance that requires a ground I have to get a 3 to 2 prong adapter
and run the appliance unprotected.

My question is, should I upgrade the fuse box and replace it with a
circuit breaker. If I did so, would I need to replace every wire in my
entire house or could I just run a ground wire up to every outlet and
install a 3 prong outlet?

Also, I worked for an electrican during a summer so I have a general
understanding of wiring. Could I do this job myself?

Zack

 

[Rich Grise]

On Fri, 18 Feb 2005 10:27:39 -0800, Zack Schneeberger wrote:

I just bought a house that is wired through a Fuse Box. The outlets in
the entire house are the old-style 2 prong outlets. In order to run an
appliance that requires a ground I have to get a 3 to 2 prong adapter
and run the appliance unprotected.

If your adapter hasn't been hacked, there's supposed to be either a green
wire or a tab, that gets screwed down under the wall plate screw, that's
_supposed to_ provide an earth ground. This will work if you have conduit
or if your Romex has a drain wire that's grounded.

My question is, should I upgrade the fuse box and replace it with a
circuit breaker. If I did so, would I need to replace every wire in my
entire house or could I just run a ground wire up to every outlet and
install a 3 prong outlet?

If you have conduit, you can just install 3-prong outlets, and shouldn't
have to do anything else - the frame of the outlet is ground, and grounds
to the box, which is _supposed to be_ ground. Check for a proper ground
rod near the entrance panel, or at least a ground wire clamped to a cold
water pipe.

As far as replacing the box, it's not necessary that I know of, although
you might check with your local code authority. Nah, on second thought,
if it wasn't to code, they wouldn't have been allowed to sell you the
house. So I'd say it's really just a matter of taste.

Also, I worked for an electrican during a summer so I have a general
understanding of wiring. Could I do this job myself?

Yes, given the caveats about grounding. And one other thing - if you
do put in breakers - get breakers that are the same rating as the fuse
on each circuit. DO NOT put a 20A breaker on a circuit that now has
a 15A fuse, for example. If you want to up the current, you might have
to pull new wires.

Good Luck!
Rich

 

[Rich Grise]

On Fri, 18 Feb 2005 12:14:11 -0800, Zack wrote:

Good to hear I can just install a ground bus. How do you correctly
install a ground bus? Can I just go pick up green ground wire from Home
Deopt and start? How do they all the ground wires come together? And
how do I properly ground them? With a copper rod in the ground?

Also, my fuse box is full. I need to add a hot tub as well as some
other appliances. What is the correct way to add a circuit breaker
panel to a house that already has a fuse panel?

Pull the main breaker. Mark each and every wire as to its circuit ID
(Master BR, Bath, etc) and fuse rating (15A, 20A, whatever). Take the
old box out and recycle it. Put the new box in, install the proper
breakers, and reconnect the wires to where they're supposed to go.

Do you know what kind of physical wiring you have? If it's conduit
or 3-wire Romex, you might already have a ground. This is extremely
easy to check. Go to the hardware store and get a 3-prong outlet
and an outlet tester.
http://images.google.com/images?q=%22outlet+tester%22
Open one of your outlet boxes, and just swap out the outlet. The
frame of the new outlet grounds to the box. Plug in the tester,
and it will tell you if you have a good ground.

Apply all of the standard safety disclaimers and stuff, of course.

Good Luck!
Rich

 

[Tom Biasi]

"Rich Grise" <richgrise@example.net> wrote in message
newsan.2005.02.18.21.00.10.653002@example.net...

On Fri, 18 Feb 2005 12:14:11 -0800, Zack wrote:

Good to hear I can just install a ground bus. How do you correctly
install a ground bus? Can I just go pick up green ground wire from Home
Deopt and start? How do they all the ground wires come together? And
how do I properly ground them? With a copper rod in the ground?

Also, my fuse box is full. I need to add a hot tub as well as some
other appliances. What is the correct way to add a circuit breaker
panel to a house that already has a fuse panel?

Pull the main breaker. Mark each and every wire as to its circuit ID
(Master BR, Bath, etc) and fuse rating (15A, 20A, whatever). Take the
old box out and recycle it. Put the new box in, install the proper
breakers, and reconnect the wires to where they're supposed to go.

Do you know what kind of physical wiring you have? If it's conduit
or 3-wire Romex, you might already have a ground. This is extremely
easy to check. Go to the hardware store and get a 3-prong outlet
and an outlet tester.
http://images.google.com/images?q=%22outlet+tester%22
Open one of your outlet boxes, and just swap out the outlet. The
frame of the new outlet grounds to the box. Plug in the tester,
and it will tell you if you have a good ground.

Apply all of the standard safety disclaimers and stuff, of course.

Good Luck!
Rich

Pulling the main breaker doesn't disconnect the supply from the street.
The very nature of these questions indicates that the OP needs advice from a
licensed electrician
Tom

 

[Zack]

Al - could you go into more detail about "adherence to isolating
neutral lines."

Zack

Kitchen Man wrote:

On Fri, 18 Feb 2005 21:51:27 -0500, "Tom Biasi"
tombiasi@REMOVEoptonline.net> wrote:


Pulling the main breaker doesn't disconnect the supply from the
street.
The very nature of these questions indicates that the OP needs
advice from a
licensed electrician

That's another thought that occurred to me as I read the OP's
followup.
I've seen work by amateurs who thought they knew what they were doing
get botched pretty badly. Especially prevalent are errors in wiring
neutral, apparently under the assumption that since neutral is
effectively zero volts, that adherence to isolating neutral lines by
circuit can be ignored.

--
Al Brennan

 

[Terry]

<spudnuty@lycos.com> wrote in message
news:1108776320.297314.132480@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...

Zack,
What kind of wire runs from the box to your outlets? Knob and tube,
asphalt cable, older BX ?? Where are you located?
Richard

OP needs competent electrical advice, on site.

For example has mentioned adding a hot tub to a house which has a completely
utilized fuse panel. We have no idea of the capacity of the service to the
house, it could be only 60 amp? Fuse panel could be at or above capacity
already!
OP says there are two prong outlets with no indication if there is any
grounding present ................. sounds very dicey to me !
Even if such an old wiring installation is allowed due to grandfathering
regulations, making any significant changes and/or adding some heavy
additional loads such as a hot tub/motor pumps etc. could a) Be electrically
unsafe b) Be uninsurable c) Cause a fire!
One poster said "Pull the main circuit breaker"! But OP says they have
fuses?
Another said "Check the conduit or Romex"! A house that old maybe is not
wired with either; could even be knob and tube or old rubber covered?
Very concerned some of that advice not appropriate and OP may do something
dangerous in receipt of it.
Others agree?

 

[Terry]

"Zack Schneeberger" <schneebie1@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1108751259.464754.124160@c13g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...

I just bought a house that is wired through a Fuse Box. The outlets in
the entire house are the old-style 2 prong outlets. In order to run an
appliance that requires a ground I have to get a 3 to 2 prong adapter
and run the appliance unprotected.

My question is, should I upgrade the fuse box and replace it with a
circuit breaker. If I did so, would I need to replace every wire in my
entire house or could I just run a ground wire up to every outlet and
install a 3 prong outlet?

Also, I worked for an electrican during a summer so I have a general
understanding of wiring. Could I do this job myself?

Zack

Respectfully suggest that you post your query on < alt.home.repair > lots of

helpful 'do it yourself' advice there.
But some of what you suggest sounds dangerous!!!!!! And uninsurable?
Terry

 

[Beeper]

I'm not a licensed electrician. I work in an industrial setting where I
don't need to be. However, you are getting some good sound advice or should
I say questions. Fuses in my mind are much better than breakers, however
technology says you'll have breakers. Did you know a breaker is guarenteed
for 1 trip? Just like fuses, but the breaker can be used again! None the
less, if you are going to up your electrical load on an old system, it is in
your best interest to have a qualified,licensed,insured and last but not
least, respectable electrician inspect your house. Don't be afraid to tell
them you want to upgrade and not go broke at the same time. Get an estimate
from a couple and see what they say. One thing you have to remember.
Electrical code and a good conscious prevents an honest electrician from
doing some things that would save you money. Just my opinion for what it is
worth.. Your main box should have a label of some sort telling you what
amperage it is rated for. The size of the main fuse is another good
indication if it hasn't been compromised. Yes the size of the wiring coming
in is the main tell tale.
"Zack" <schneebie1@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1109090319.747412.175700@l41g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...

I don't know how much/if any of the work I would do myself. I really
want to sound knowlegable though when the electrican comes to quote the
job. Otherwise I am going to get ripped off!.

How do I tell the capicity of the service to the house? I assume that
it is directly related to the guage of the wire comming to the house
from the powerlines and from the power meter to the fuse box. Is this
correct?

 

[Rich Grise]

On Wed, 23 Feb 2005 10:25:43 -0500, Beeper wrote:

I'm not a licensed electrician. I work in an industrial setting where I
don't need to be. However, you are getting some good sound advice or should
I say questions. Fuses in my mind are much better than breakers, however
technology says you'll have breakers. Did you know a breaker is guarenteed
for 1 trip? Just like fuses, but the breaker can be used again! None the
less, if you are going to up your electrical load on an old system, it is in
your best interest to have a qualified,licensed,insured and last but not
least, respectable electrician inspect your house. Don't be afraid to tell
them you want to upgrade and not go broke at the same time. Get an estimate
from a couple and see what they say. One thing you have to remember.
Electrical code and a good conscious prevents an honest electrician from
doing some things that would save you money. Just my opinion for what it is
worth.. Your main box should have a label of some sort telling you what
amperage it is rated for. The size of the main fuse is another good
indication if it hasn't been compromised. Yes the size of the wiring coming
in is the main tell tale.
"Zack" <schneebie1@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1109090319.747412.175700@l41g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...
I don't know how much/if any of the work I would do myself. I really
want to sound knowlegable though when the electrican comes to quote the
job. Otherwise I am going to get ripped off!.

How do I tell the capicity of the service to the house? I assume that
it is directly related to the guage of the wire comming to the house
from the powerlines and from the power meter to the fuse box. Is this
correct?

I just realized, if you can afford to put in a spa, you can afford to get
it wired right. ;-)

Cheers!
Rich