Bird Friendly Heliostat Solar Thermal

[Bret Cahill]

Stopping a megawatt wind turbine on a dime to save a bird might introduce structural issues.

That isn't the case with solar thermal. Radar or sonar can track each bird as it passes through feeding information into a controller. Each mirror would only be diverted from the boiler for a fraction of a second.

Only the offending mirrors need to be moved to allow a bird to pass that movement only needs to be a minimum angle to de focus the heat. They probably would even need to change the motors.

This is a really cool engineering problem.


Bret Cahill

 

[George Herold]

On Saturday, February 15, 2014 12:08:02 PM UTC-5, Bret Cahill wrote:

Stopping a megawatt wind turbine on a dime to save a bird might introduce structural issues.



That isn't the case with solar thermal. Radar or sonar can track each bird as it passes through feeding information into a controller. Each mirror would only be diverted from the boiler for a fraction of a second.



Only the offending mirrors need to be moved to allow a bird to pass that movement only needs to be a minimum angle to de focus the heat. They probably would even need to change the motors.



This is a really cool engineering problem.

Bret Cahill

Worrying about bird deaths in windmills is just plain silly.
How many birds die due to crashes into buildings/ windows, how many are killed by cars and trucks? Cats?

George H.

 

[John Larkin]

On Sat, 15 Feb 2014 09:08:02 -0800 (PST), Bret Cahill <bret.e.cahill@gmail.com>
wrote:

Stopping a megawatt wind turbine on a dime to save a bird might introduce structural issues.

That isn't the case with solar thermal. Radar or sonar can track each bird as it passes through feeding information into a controller. Each mirror would only be diverted from the boiler for a fraction of a second.

Only the offending mirrors need to be moved to allow a bird to pass that movement only needs to be a minimum angle to de focus the heat. They probably would even need to change the motors.

This is a really cool engineering problem.


Bret Cahill

Hey, engineers do math!

A solar tracker has to slew the mirror at roughly one revolution per day.
Avoiding a bird might need to slew a mirror at one rev per second.

So, what is the likelyhood that the designers oversized the motors and drive
electronics by a factor of 80,000 or so?


--

John Larkin Highland Technology Inc
www.highlandtechnology.com jlarkin at highlandtechnology dot com

Precision electronic instrumentation

 

[Bret Cahill]

Stopping a megawatt wind turbine on a dime to save a bird might introduce structural issues.



That isn't the case with solar thermal. Radar or sonar can track each bird as it passes through feeding information into a controller. Each mirror would only be diverted from the boiler for a fraction of a second.



Only the offending mirrors need to be moved to allow a bird to pass that movement only needs to be a minimum angle to de focus the heat. They probably would even need to change the motors.



This is a really cool engineering problem.





Bret Cahill





Hey, engineers do math!



A solar tracker has to slew the mirror at roughly one revolution per day.

Avoiding a bird might need to slew a mirror at one rev per second.

You imagine the mirrors are 1 m from the boiler of a MW heliostat?

First take a look at the size and dimensions of the mirror farm, take a high school trig class and _then_ make a fool of yourself.

 

On Monday, February 17, 2014 11:11:25 AM UTC-8, George Herold wrote:

On Saturday, February 15, 2014 12:08:02 PM UTC-5, Bret Cahill wrote:

Stopping a megawatt wind turbine on a dime to save a bird might introduce structural issues.







That isn't the case with solar thermal. Radar or sonar can track each bird as it passes through feeding information into a controller. Each mirror would only be diverted from the boiler for a fraction of a second.







Only the offending mirrors need to be moved to allow a bird to pass that movement only needs to be a minimum angle to de focus the heat. They probably would even need to change the motors.







This is a really cool engineering problem.



Bret Cahill



Worrying about bird deaths in windmills is just plain silly.

How many birds die due to crashes into buildings/ windows, how many are killed by cars and trucks? Cats?



George H.

How about looking at the problem a different way. This is a boon for pet food manufacturers, if not school cafeterias. "Mystery meat" indeed.

 

[Bret Cahill]

Stopping a megawatt wind turbine on a dime to save a bird might introduce structural issues.















That isn't the case with solar thermal. Radar or sonar can track each bird as it passes through feeding information into a controller. Each mirror would only be diverted from the boiler for a fraction of a second.















Only the offending mirrors need to be moved to allow a bird to pass that movement only needs to be a minimum angle to de focus the heat. They probably would even need to change the motors.















This is a really cool engineering problem.







Bret Cahill







Worrying about bird deaths in windmills is just plain silly.



How many birds die due to crashes into buildings/ windows, how many are killed by cars and trucks? Cats?







George H.





How about looking at the problem a different way. This is a boon for pet food manufacturers, if not school cafeterias. "Mystery meat" indeed.

Ivanpah is on one of the biggest flyways in N. America. Distinctive profile birds like ducks and geese could by IDed by special duck recognition softwar, deliberately shot down with the heliostats and cooked for the dozens of employees who toil all day cleaning bird droppings off the mirrors.

 

On Tuesday, February 18, 2014 10:32:12 AM UTC-8, Bret Cahill wrote:

Stopping a megawatt wind turbine on a dime to save a bird might introduce structural issues.































That isn't the case with solar thermal. Radar or sonar can track each bird as it passes through feeding information into a controller. Each mirror would only be diverted from the boiler for a fraction of a second.































Only the offending mirrors need to be moved to allow a bird to pass that movement only needs to be a minimum angle to de focus the heat. They probably would even need to change the motors.































This is a really cool engineering problem.















Bret Cahill















Worrying about bird deaths in windmills is just plain silly.







How many birds die due to crashes into buildings/ windows, how many are killed by cars and trucks? Cats?















George H.











How about looking at the problem a different way. This is a boon for pet food manufacturers, if not school cafeterias. "Mystery meat" indeed.



Ivanpah is on one of the biggest flyways in N. America. Distinctive profile birds like ducks and geese could by IDed by special duck recognition softwar, deliberately shot down with the heliostats and cooked for the dozens of employees who toil all day cleaning bird droppings off the mirrors.

Sounds like a plan! Thank you for volunteering to write the open-source duck recognition software.

Bird droppings... there MUST be a way to use some of the waste heat to burn off the bird droppings.

 

[Bret Cahill]

Stopping a megawatt wind turbine on a dime to save a bird might introduce structural issues.































































That isn't the case with solar thermal. Radar or sonar can track each bird as it passes through feeding information into a controller. Each mirror would only be diverted from the boiler for a fraction of a second.































































Only the offending mirrors need to be moved to allow a bird to pass that movement only needs to be a minimum angle to de focus the heat. They probably would even need to change the motors.































































This is a really cool engineering problem.































Bret Cahill































Worrying about bird deaths in windmills is just plain silly.















How many birds die due to crashes into buildings/ windows, how many are killed by cars and trucks? Cats?































George H.























How about looking at the problem a different way. This is a boon for pet food manufacturers, if not school cafeterias. "Mystery meat" indeed.







Ivanpah is on one of the biggest flyways in N. America. Distinctive profile birds like ducks and geese could by IDed by special duck recognition softwar, deliberately shot down with the heliostats and cooked for the dozens of employees who toil all day cleaning bird droppings off the mirrors.





Sounds like a plan! Thank you for volunteering to write the open-source duck recognition software.



Bird droppings... there MUST be a way to use some of the waste heat to burn off the bird droppings.

Track it as it falls with radar then hit it with the heliostats. The dust can then be blown off with compressed air.

Few things provide more opportunities for fun than solar thermal.


Bret Cahill

 

On Tuesday, February 18, 2014 9:07:37 PM UTC-8, Bret Cahill wrote:

....

Bird droppings... there MUST be a way to use some of the waste heat to burn off the bird droppings.



Track it as it falls with radar then hit it with the heliostats. The dust can then be blown off with compressed air.

Oh... wait... aren't bird droppings mostly nitrates? Salts don't burn...

Few things provide more opportunities for fun than solar thermal.





Bret Cahill

What do you think of the Compact Linear Fresnel Reflector?
http://www.physics.usyd.edu.au/app/research/solar/clfr.html

I haven't seen too many on a large scale. I wonder why that is...

Michael

 

[Bret Cahill]

Bird droppings... there MUST be a way to use some of the waste heat to burn off the bird droppings.







Track it as it falls with radar then hit it with the heliostats. The dust can then be blown off with compressed air.





Oh... wait... aren't bird droppings mostly nitrates? Salts don't burn...

The goal was to eliminate H2O and VOC.

Few things provide more opportunities for fun than solar thermal.

What do you think of the Compact Linear Fresnel Reflector?

http://www.physics.usyd.edu.au/app/research/solar/clfr.html

Interesting.

> I haven't seen too many on a large scale. I wonder why that is...

Maybe too much heat is lost from the receiver. Sometimes economies of scale decide everything.


Bret Cahill