Beyond AWG

  • Thread starter Paul Hovnanian P.E.
  • Start date
P

Paul Hovnanian P.E.

Guest
I have a d'Arsonval meter movement to repair. The voltage coil has a
number of breaks and will have to be rewound. After removing the old
coil, I measured the wire diameter. It appears to be copper, about 1.8
mil in diameter over the enamel insulation.

Thats down below the AWG chart I've got. 40 AWG is 3.14 mils. Anyone
have a link to a chart that goes down to 45 AWG? And does anyone have a
link to a supplier (with specs) of this size wire? Since I'm measuring
the diameter over enamel, it would be better to compare what I've got to
finished magnet wire specs.

--
Paul Hovnanian mailto:paul@Hovnanian.com
------------------------------------------------------------------
I bet the human brain is a kludge. -- Marvin Minsky
 
On Sun, 15 Aug 2010 20:42:22 -0700, "Paul Hovnanian P.E." <Paul@Hovnanian.com> wrote:

I have a d'Arsonval meter movement to repair. The voltage coil has a
number of breaks and will have to be rewound. After removing the old
coil, I measured the wire diameter. It appears to be copper, about 1.8
mil in diameter over the enamel insulation.

Thats down below the AWG chart I've got. 40 AWG is 3.14 mils. Anyone
have a link to a chart that goes down to 45 AWG? And does anyone have a
link to a supplier (with specs) of this size wire? Since I'm measuring
the diameter over enamel, it would be better to compare what I've got to
finished magnet wire specs.
Click to expand...
Do you need to stay original? Is less turns of heavier wire
plus an amplifier an option?

Fine work, not something I'd want try unless the thing had
great value.

Grant.
 
"Paul Hovnanian P.E." <Paul@Hovnanian.com> wrote in message
news:4C68B39E.1BDB6434@Hovnanian.com...
I have a d'Arsonval meter movement to repair. The voltage coil has a
number of breaks and will have to be rewound. After removing the old
coil, I measured the wire diameter. It appears to be copper, about 1.8
mil in diameter over the enamel insulation.

Thats down below the AWG chart I've got. 40 AWG is 3.14 mils. Anyone
have a link to a chart that goes down to 45 AWG? And does anyone have a
link to a supplier (with specs) of this size wire? Since I'm measuring
the diameter over enamel, it would be better to compare what I've got to
finished magnet wire specs.

--
Paul Hovnanian mailto:paul@Hovnanian.com
------------------------------------------------------------------
I bet the human brain is a kludge. -- Marvin Minsky
Click to expand...
This may be of use.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/2/28/Gauge_Chart.pdf


tm



--- news://freenews.netfront.net/ - complaints: news@netfront.net ---
 
On Sun, 15 Aug 2010 20:42:22 -0700, "Paul Hovnanian P.E."
<Paul@Hovnanian.com> wrote:

I have a d'Arsonval meter movement to repair. The voltage coil has a
number of breaks and will have to be rewound. After removing the old
coil, I measured the wire diameter. It appears to be copper, about 1.8
mil in diameter over the enamel insulation.

Thats down below the AWG chart I've got. 40 AWG is 3.14 mils. Anyone
have a link to a chart that goes down to 45 AWG? And does anyone have a
link to a supplier (with specs) of this size wire? Since I'm measuring
the diameter over enamel, it would be better to compare what I've got to
finished magnet wire specs.
Click to expand...
<http://www.mwswire.com>
<http://www.mwswire.com/pdf_files/mws_tech_book/copper_magnet_wire_data.pdf>
They have insulated wire down to #55 AWG.

Hint: Use a microscope with a wire gauge reticle.

I'm impressed that you're still able to do such fine work. My
eyesight and manual dexterity are slowly disappearing as I get older.

--
Jeff Liebermann jeffl@cruzio.com
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558
 
"Paul Hovnanian P.E." <Paul@Hovnanian.com> wrote in message
news:4C68B39E.1BDB6434@Hovnanian.com...
I have a d'Arsonval meter movement to repair. The voltage coil has a
number of breaks and will have to be rewound. After removing the old
coil, I measured the wire diameter. It appears to be copper, about 1.8
mil in diameter over the enamel insulation.

Thats down below the AWG chart I've got. 40 AWG is 3.14 mils. Anyone
have a link to a chart that goes down to 45 AWG? And does anyone have a
link to a supplier (with specs) of this size wire? Since I'm measuring
the diameter over enamel, it would be better to compare what I've got to
finished magnet wire specs.

--
Paul Hovnanian mailto:paul@Hovnanian.com
------------------------------------------------------------------
I bet the human brain is a kludge. -- Marvin Minsky
Click to expand...
And this might be a source.

http://www.sandvik.com/sandvik/0971/internet/s003237.nsf/genframe?openagent&uid=19ed0bb9dba82803c12573f500324029



tm



--- news://freenews.netfront.net/ - complaints: news@netfront.net ---
 
In article <4C68B39E.1BDB6434@Hovnanian.com>,
"Paul Hovnanian P.E." <Paul@Hovnanian.com> wrote:

I have a d'Arsonval meter movement to repair. The voltage coil has a
number of breaks and will have to be rewound. After removing the old
coil, I measured the wire diameter. It appears to be copper, about 1.8
mil in diameter over the enamel insulation.

Thats down below the AWG chart I've got. 40 AWG is 3.14 mils. Anyone
have a link to a chart that goes down to 45 AWG? And does anyone have a
link to a supplier (with specs) of this size wire? Since I'm measuring
the diameter over enamel, it would be better to compare what I've got to
finished magnet wire specs.
Click to expand...
This is where I buy magnet wire for guitar pickups and such, and they
have a good deal of reference data including diameters of bare copper
and insulated copper of various types. If you really want an accurate
measure of what you have, I recommend a good toolroom micrometer. I'm
not using "toolroom" carelessly, but to make a distinction between that
and a shop micrometer.

http://www.mwswire.com/
 
Smitty Two wrote:

In article <4C68B39E.1BDB6434@Hovnanian.com>,
"Paul Hovnanian P.E." <Paul@Hovnanian.com> wrote:

I have a d'Arsonval meter movement to repair. The voltage coil has a
number of breaks and will have to be rewound. After removing the old
coil, I measured the wire diameter. It appears to be copper, about 1.8
mil in diameter over the enamel insulation.

Thats down below the AWG chart I've got. 40 AWG is 3.14 mils. Anyone
have a link to a chart that goes down to 45 AWG? And does anyone have a
link to a supplier (with specs) of this size wire? Since I'm measuring
the diameter over enamel, it would be better to compare what I've got to
finished magnet wire specs.

This is where I buy magnet wire for guitar pickups and such, and they
have a good deal of reference data including diameters of bare copper
and insulated copper of various types. If you really want an accurate
measure of what you have, I recommend a good toolroom micrometer. I'm
not using "toolroom" carelessly, but to make a distinction between that
and a shop micrometer.

http://www.mwswire.com/
Click to expand...
Thanks (to everyone) for the links and info. What I've got appears to be AWG
45. As Grant suggested, its possible to use a slightly different wire size
than the original. As long as several parameters remain close to the
original. The voltage winding is self supporting (not wound on a form) and
swings in free space. All I've got to do is keep the ampere turns and coil
area close to the original. I can tweak the accuracy by trimming a couple
of series resistors (part of the original design) once its fixed.

The biggest problem is going to be counting 1800 turns! I can make a jig to
wind this on my bench lathe and incorporate a magnet/Hall sensor to advance
a counter.

--
Paul Hovnanian paul@hovnanian.com
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Have gnu, will travel.
 
Jeff Liebermann wrote:

On Sun, 15 Aug 2010 20:42:22 -0700, "Paul Hovnanian P.E."
Paul@Hovnanian.com> wrote:

I have a d'Arsonval meter movement to repair. The voltage coil has a
number of breaks and will have to be rewound. After removing the old
coil, I measured the wire diameter. It appears to be copper, about 1.8
mil in diameter over the enamel insulation.

Thats down below the AWG chart I've got. 40 AWG is 3.14 mils. Anyone
have a link to a chart that goes down to 45 AWG? And does anyone have a
link to a supplier (with specs) of this size wire? Since I'm measuring
the diameter over enamel, it would be better to compare what I've got to
finished magnet wire specs.

http://www.mwswire.com

http://www.mwswire.com/pdf_files/mws_tech_book/copper_magnet_wire_data.pdf
They have insulated wire down to #55 AWG.

Hint: Use a microscope with a wire gauge reticle.

I'm impressed that you're still able to do such fine work. My
eyesight and manual dexterity are slowly disappearing as I get older.

I can see this stuff just fine with magnifying glasses. I just have trouble
Click to expand...
not breaking itty-bitty little wires with hands that have spent years
wrenching on rusty wrecks and splitting wood.

--
Paul Hovnanian paul@hovnanian.com
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Have gnu, will travel.
 
On Mon, 16 Aug 2010 10:19:26 -0700, "Paul Hovnanian P.E."
<paul@hovnanian.com> wrote:

The biggest problem is going to be counting 1800 turns! I can make a jig to
wind this on my bench lathe and incorporate a magnet/Hall sensor to advance
a counter.
Click to expand...
Magnetic is rotation speed sensitive. If you go too slow, it won't
register a pulse. I suggest optical with an LED emitter/detector
pair. Debounce the output with a one-shot. Send the output pulses to
an HP universal counter. Count pulses. Good luck.

You might also make some kind of friction clutch arrangement intended
to keep the tension under the breaking strength of the #45 AWG wire.
This way, the lathe can spin merrily while you control the wire feed
with your fingers. (Hint: wear gloves). If rigidly attach the spool
to the lathe, it's gonna break.

When I moved to my house in the woods 35 years ago, I bought a chain
saw. I then dropped and split about 1 cord of firewood. The next
year, I hired someone to deliver firewood, and have lived happily ever
after. I also disposed of my dead cars several years ago as I needed
the parking spaces.



--
Jeff Liebermann jeffl@cruzio.com
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558
 
Jeff Liebermann wrote:
[snip]
Click to expand...

I also disposed of my dead cars several years ago as I needed
the parking spaces.
Click to expand...
I do too whenever I find them. Which reminds me: Time to mow the lawn
again.

--
Paul Hovnanian mailto:paul@Hovnanian.com
------------------------------------------------------------------
Experience is the worst teacher. It always gives the test
first and the instruction afterward.
 
On Mon, 16 Aug 2010 11:07:05 -0700, Jeff Liebermann <jeffl@cruzio.com> wrote:

On Mon, 16 Aug 2010 10:19:26 -0700, "Paul Hovnanian P.E."
paul@hovnanian.com> wrote:

The biggest problem is going to be counting 1800 turns! I can make a jig to
wind this on my bench lathe and incorporate a magnet/Hall sensor to advance
a counter.

Magnetic is rotation speed sensitive. If you go too slow, it won't
register a pulse.
Click to expand...
Hall effect shouldn't be? I agree a pickup coil would be speed
sensitive.

I suggest optical with an LED emitter/detector
pair. Debounce the output with a one-shot. Send the output pulses to
an HP universal counter. Count pulses. Good luck.
Click to expand...
Optical might count flouro lights or something extra too? Whatever's
handy...

Grant.
You might also make some kind of friction clutch arrangement intended
to keep the tension under the breaking strength of the #45 AWG wire.
This way, the lathe can spin merrily while you control the wire feed
with your fingers. (Hint: wear gloves). If rigidly attach the spool
to the lathe, it's gonna break.

When I moved to my house in the woods 35 years ago, I bought a chain
saw. I then dropped and split about 1 cord of firewood. The next
year, I hired someone to deliver firewood, and have lived happily ever
after. I also disposed of my dead cars several years ago as I needed
the parking spaces.
Click to expand...
 
Grant wrote:
On Mon, 16 Aug 2010 11:07:05 -0700, Jeff Liebermann <jeffl@cruzio.com> wrote:

On Mon, 16 Aug 2010 10:19:26 -0700, "Paul Hovnanian P.E."
paul@hovnanian.com> wrote:

The biggest problem is going to be counting 1800 turns! I can make a jig to
wind this on my bench lathe and incorporate a magnet/Hall sensor to advance
a counter.

Magnetic is rotation speed sensitive. If you go too slow, it won't
register a pulse.

Hall effect shouldn't be? I agree a pickup coil would be speed
sensitive.

I suggest optical with an LED emitter/detector
pair. Debounce the output with a one-shot. Send the output pulses to
an HP universal counter. Count pulses. Good luck.

Optical might count flouro lights or something extra too? Whatever's
handy...
Click to expand...
I'm not going to be running the chuck very fast (good way to break fine
wire). At these speeds, a reed switch will work.

I have a 30 year old car with a reed switch speedo sensor. It works just
fine.

--
Paul Hovnanian mailto:paul@Hovnanian.com
------------------------------------------------------------------
Happily doing the work of 3 Men ... Moe, Larry & Curly
 
Paul Hovnanian P.E. <Paul@hovnanian.com> wrote:
Grant wrote:

On Mon, 16 Aug 2010 11:07:05 -0700, Jeff Liebermann <jeffl@cruzio.com> wrote:

On Mon, 16 Aug 2010 10:19:26 -0700, "Paul Hovnanian P.E."
paul@hovnanian.com> wrote:

The biggest problem is going to be counting 1800 turns! I can make a jig to
wind this on my bench lathe and incorporate a magnet/Hall sensor to advance
a counter.

Magnetic is rotation speed sensitive. If you go too slow, it won't
register a pulse.

Hall effect shouldn't be? I agree a pickup coil would be speed
sensitive.

I suggest optical with an LED emitter/detector
pair. Debounce the output with a one-shot. Send the output pulses to
an HP universal counter. Count pulses. Good luck.

Optical might count flouro lights or something extra too? Whatever's
handy...

I'm not going to be running the chuck very fast (good way to break fine
wire). At these speeds, a reed switch will work.

I have a 30 year old car with a reed switch speedo sensor. It works just
fine.
Click to expand...
There nothing like a good mechanical counter...

---
******************************************************************
* KSI@home KOI8 Net < > The impossible we do immediately. *
* Las Vegas NV, USA < > Miracles require 24-hour notice. *
******************************************************************
 
"Paul Hovnanian P.E." <paul@hovnanian.com> wrote in message
news:Uv2dna7xQLZ_7_TRnZ2dnUVZ_iydnZ2d@posted.isomediainc...
Smitty Two wrote:

In article <4C68B39E.1BDB6434@Hovnanian.com>,
"Paul Hovnanian P.E." <Paul@Hovnanian.com> wrote:

I have a d'Arsonval meter movement to repair. The voltage coil has a
number of breaks and will have to be rewound. After removing the old
coil, I measured the wire diameter. It appears to be copper, about 1.8
mil in diameter over the enamel insulation.

Thats down below the AWG chart I've got. 40 AWG is 3.14 mils. Anyone
have a link to a chart that goes down to 45 AWG? And does anyone have a
link to a supplier (with specs) of this size wire? Since I'm measuring
the diameter over enamel, it would be better to compare what I've got to
finished magnet wire specs.

This is where I buy magnet wire for guitar pickups and such, and they
have a good deal of reference data including diameters of bare copper
and insulated copper of various types. If you really want an accurate
measure of what you have, I recommend a good toolroom micrometer. I'm
not using "toolroom" carelessly, but to make a distinction between that
and a shop micrometer.

http://www.mwswire.com/

Thanks (to everyone) for the links and info. What I've got appears to be
AWG
45. As Grant suggested, its possible to use a slightly different wire size
than the original. As long as several parameters remain close to the
original. The voltage winding is self supporting (not wound on a form) and
swings in free space. All I've got to do is keep the ampere turns and coil
area close to the original. I can tweak the accuracy by trimming a couple
of series resistors (part of the original design) once its fixed.

The biggest problem is going to be counting 1800 turns! I can make a jig
to
wind this on my bench lathe and incorporate a magnet/Hall sensor to
advance
a counter.

--
Paul Hovnanian paul@hovnanian.com
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Have gnu, will travel.
Click to expand...
SOME P.E. IS SO FUCKED UP, THEY TOLD ME GENERATOR WILL OVER-HEAT IF YOU
DON'T APPLY LOAD...GOT TO GITGO..GIT..GIT...HEEHEE.... GO REVOLT ON YOU OWN
TIME TROLL YOUR P.E IS A PIECE OF SHIT...
THE BEAUTY OF AMERICA PE IS THAT ANYONE CAN BECOME ONE

IAP
 
"Paul Hovnanian P.E." <paul@hovnanian.com> wrote in message
news:Uv2dna7xQLZ_7_TRnZ2dnUVZ_iydnZ2d@posted.isomediainc...

The biggest problem is going to be counting 1800 turns! I can make a jig
to
wind this on my bench lathe and incorporate a magnet/Hall sensor to
advance
a counter.
Click to expand...
Measure the size of the finished coil (circumference) then compute the
length of wire needed to complete the 1800 turns and don't bother
counting? There is a formula for more complicated applications that
takes into consideration the wire's diameter, as the coil's
circumference does change slightly as it is wound.
 
PeterD wrote:
"Paul Hovnanian P.E." <paul@hovnanian.com> wrote in message
news:Uv2dna7xQLZ_7_TRnZ2dnUVZ_iydnZ2d@posted.isomediainc...

The biggest problem is going to be counting 1800 turns! I can make a jig
to
wind this on my bench lathe and incorporate a magnet/Hall sensor to
advance
a counter.

Measure the size of the finished coil (circumference) then compute the
length of wire needed to complete the 1800 turns and don't bother
counting? There is a formula for more complicated applications that
takes into consideration the wire's diameter, as the coil's
circumference does change slightly as it is wound.
Click to expand...
That's how I figured 1800 turns.

--
Paul Hovnanian mailto:paul@Hovnanian.com
------------------------------------------------------------------
What if no one ever asked a hypothetical question?
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Welcome to EDABoard.com

Sponsor

Back
Top