Best heat sink compound?

[Roger Hamlett]

"Daniel L. Belton" <abuse@spam.gov> wrote in message
news:nLlzb.4429$Lr6.144@fe1.columbus.rr.com...

Robert Baer wrote:
"Daniel L. Belton" wrote:

DaveC wrote:


White "tooth" paste kind, or clear greasy "hair stuff" kind?

Actually, the silvery kind

http://www.arcticsilver.com


The "arctic silver compound" is *bad* stuff.
It migrates all over hell and back, not only making a crappy looking
mess, but also has been reported to do damage to electrical contacts.

Never had that problem here using it for more than 4 years on several
hundred CPU's and chipsets
The problem is not with the paste, but with people applying it...

I had one guy, who was having problems with his machine. Knowing he had just
upgraded the processor, I asked what he had used for the thermal contact. He
assured me it was fine, with 'plenty of grease'. Inspection showed that he
had used perhaps 1/3rd of a tube, on one processor!.
Applied in a very thin layer, it works well, but the paste is so thin, that
if there is even a small amount of surplus, it may well migrate to places
which cause problems.

Best Wishes

 

[Floyd Davidson]

"Daniel L. Belton" <abuse@spam.gov> wrote:

DarkMatter wrote:

On Tue, 02 Dec 2003 09:08:54 GMT, "Daniel L. Belton" <abuse@spam.gov
Gave us:

Ok... Let me put it into numbers... when overclocking my
computer, I get approx. 400 mhz more out of it when using
arctic silver over the white goop...
Being an overclocker, you should know better than to give the
multiplied number as in 2.4 GHz OC'd to 2.8, a 400MHz gain.
Bullshit.
That is bullshit. What is the FSB clock change? That is
the only
one that REALLY matters.
BTW, if that is not really your valid e-mail, it is illegal
to use a
dot gov addy if it isn't legitimate. You could get nailed.

ok... on a PIII rated at 133 mhz FSB, I can run it at a 168 mhz
FSB with Arctic Silver... With the white silicone, I can get no
more than 147 mhz...

So it actually doesn't make any difference... or at least any
significant difference.

--
Floyd L. Davidson <http://web.newsguy.com/floyd_davidson>
Ukpeagvik (Barrow, Alaska) floyd@barrow.com

 

[Daniel L. Belton]

Roger Hamlett wrote:

"Daniel L. Belton" <abuse@spam.gov> wrote in message
news:nLlzb.4429$Lr6.144@fe1.columbus.rr.com...

Robert Baer wrote:

"Daniel L. Belton" wrote:


DaveC wrote:



White "tooth" paste kind, or clear greasy "hair stuff" kind?

Actually, the silvery kind

http://www.arcticsilver.com


The "arctic silver compound" is *bad* stuff.
It migrates all over hell and back, not only making a crappy looking
mess, but also has been reported to do damage to electrical contacts.

Never had that problem here using it for more than 4 years on several
hundred CPU's and chipsets

The problem is not with the paste, but with people applying it...
I had one guy, who was having problems with his machine. Knowing he had just
upgraded the processor, I asked what he had used for the thermal contact. He
assured me it was fine, with 'plenty of grease'. Inspection showed that he
had used perhaps 1/3rd of a tube, on one processor!.
Applied in a very thin layer, it works well, but the paste is so thin, that
if there is even a small amount of surplus, it may well migrate to places
which cause problems.

Best Wishes

Yikes! 1/3 of a tube? that's about.... ohhhh... 20 times more than
nedded... hehehe

You are correct that it must be applied very sparingly, but the same is
true of any compound. Even the white goop run all over the place if you
put 20 times too much on it.... and I wonder what would happen if 20 of
those thermal pads were used...

 

[Roger Hamlett]

"Daniel L. Belton" <abuse@spam.gov> wrote in message
news:fMmzb.5635$tu1.1500@fe3.columbus.rr.com...

Roger Hamlett wrote:

"Daniel L. Belton" <abuse@spam.gov> wrote in message
news:nLlzb.4429$Lr6.144@fe1.columbus.rr.com...

Robert Baer wrote:

"Daniel L. Belton" wrote:


DaveC wrote:



White "tooth" paste kind, or clear greasy "hair stuff" kind?

Actually, the silvery kind

http://www.arcticsilver.com


The "arctic silver compound" is *bad* stuff.
It migrates all over hell and back, not only making a crappy looking
mess, but also has been reported to do damage to electrical contacts.

Never had that problem here using it for more than 4 years on several
hundred CPU's and chipsets

The problem is not with the paste, but with people applying it...
I had one guy, who was having problems with his machine. Knowing he had
just
upgraded the processor, I asked what he had used for the thermal
contact. He
assured me it was fine, with 'plenty of grease'. Inspection showed that
he
had used perhaps 1/3rd of a tube, on one processor!.
Applied in a very thin layer, it works well, but the paste is so thin,
that
if there is even a small amount of surplus, it may well migrate to
places
which cause problems.

Best Wishes



Yikes! 1/3 of a tube? that's about.... ohhhh... 20 times more than
nedded... hehehe

You are correct that it must be applied very sparingly, but the same is
true of any compound. Even the white goop run all over the place if you
put 20 times too much on it.... and I wonder what would happen if 20 of
those thermal pads were used...
I ended up washing the entire chip three times in isopropyl alcohol. Artic

silver, does seem to be slightly 'worse' than normal compounds for
migration, so the need to be 'sparing' is even more than normal.
Unfortunately, a lot of the people installing heatsinks on processors, have
never done anything like this, and follow the 'more is better' school of goo
application...
Generally it is rare to see more than two thermal pads being tried!. The
reason is that people don't have spare ones, and end up just applying one
that came with the processor, and leaving the one that was allready on the
heatsink in place. Leaving the plastic 'tape' over the face of this one is
also quite common.

Best Wishes

 

[Daniel L. Belton]

Floyd Davidson wrote:

"Daniel L. Belton" <abuse@spam.gov> wrote:

DarkMatter wrote:


On Tue, 02 Dec 2003 09:08:54 GMT, "Daniel L. Belton" <abuse@spam.gov
Gave us:


Ok... Let me put it into numbers... when overclocking my
computer, I get approx. 400 mhz more out of it when using
arctic silver over the white goop...

Being an overclocker, you should know better than to give the
multiplied number as in 2.4 GHz OC'd to 2.8, a 400MHz gain.
Bullshit.
That is bullshit. What is the FSB clock change? That is
the only
one that REALLY matters.
BTW, if that is not really your valid e-mail, it is illegal
to use a
dot gov addy if it isn't legitimate. You could get nailed.

ok... on a PIII rated at 133 mhz FSB, I can run it at a 168 mhz
FSB with Arctic Silver... With the white silicone, I can get no
more than 147 mhz...


So it actually doesn't make any difference... or at least any
significant difference.

a 19 mhz difference isn't significant? on a pIII 1ghz cpu, that
translates into a 142.5 mhz gain...

that's over 10%, so it looks really significant to me.

 

[DarkMatter]

On Wed, 03 Dec 2003 13:45:47 GMT, "Daniel L. Belton" <abuse@spam.gov>
Gave us:

DarkMatter wrote:

On Tue, 02 Dec 2003 09:08:54 GMT, "Daniel L. Belton" <abuse@spam.gov
Gave us:


Ok... Let me put it into numbers... when overclocking my computer, I
get approx. 400 mhz more out of it when using arctic silver over the
white goop...



Being an overclocker, you should know better than to give the
multiplied number as in 2.4 GHz OC'd to 2.8, a 400MHz gain.
Bullshit.

That is bullshit. What is the FSB clock change? That is the only
one that REALLY matters.

BTW, if that is not really your valid e-mail, it is illegal to use a
dot gov addy if it isn't legitimate. You could get nailed.

ok... on a PIII rated at 133 mhz FSB, I can run it at a 168 mhz FSB
with Arctic Silver... With the white silicone, I can get no more than
147 mhz...

seal the entire case up with silicone rubber RTV, and fill it with
chilled Fluorinert, a DuPont brand perfluorocarbon dielectric fluid.

You can go down to around 20 F below zero with that setup, and never
get condensation because all air, and water is displaced.

You could likely push your FSB up to around 3 to 5 hundred MHz with
it. Easily.

Cost: Around $480 a gallon. Must pressure seal the case as well,
or it will eventually evaporate. Need a couple gallons for a full
tower. Also needed2 would be the chiller equipment, and the pump

 

[DarkMatter]

On Wed, 3 Dec 2003 13:46:40 -0000, "Roger Hamlett"
<rogerspamignored@ttelmah.demon.co.uk> Gave us:

"Daniel L. Belton" <abuse@spam.gov> wrote in message
news:nLlzb.4429$Lr6.144@fe1.columbus.rr.com...
Robert Baer wrote:
"Daniel L. Belton" wrote:

DaveC wrote:


White "tooth" paste kind, or clear greasy "hair stuff" kind?

Actually, the silvery kind

http://www.arcticsilver.com


The "arctic silver compound" is *bad* stuff.
It migrates all over hell and back, not only making a crappy looking
mess, but also has been reported to do damage to electrical contacts.

Never had that problem here using it for more than 4 years on several
hundred CPU's and chipsets
The problem is not with the paste, but with people applying it...
I had one guy, who was having problems with his machine. Knowing he had just
upgraded the processor, I asked what he had used for the thermal contact. He
assured me it was fine, with 'plenty of grease'. Inspection showed that he
had used perhaps 1/3rd of a tube, on one processor!.
Applied in a very thin layer, it works well, but the paste is so thin, that
if there is even a small amount of surplus, it may well migrate to places
which cause problems.

Being a non-conductor, it is very unlikely that it could find
anywhere to migrate to that would cause an electrical "problem".

You may well be talking shit on that "point".

Now, that silver crap is conductive.

There are specific applications for each. The grease/cream is 100%
non-conductive. and requires an all but zero gap.

The silver filled media is also a direct mate interface material,
but can still pass heat well in tests where small gaps were
introduced, or the two surfaces were not coplanar.

 

[DarkMatter]

On Wed, 03 Dec 2003 05:20:16 -0900, Floyd Davidson <floyd@barrow.com>
Gave us:

"Daniel L. Belton" <abuse@spam.gov> wrote:
DarkMatter wrote:

On Tue, 02 Dec 2003 09:08:54 GMT, "Daniel L. Belton" <abuse@spam.gov
Gave us:

Ok... Let me put it into numbers... when overclocking my
computer, I get approx. 400 mhz more out of it when using
arctic silver over the white goop...
Being an overclocker, you should know better than to give the
multiplied number as in 2.4 GHz OC'd to 2.8, a 400MHz gain.
Bullshit.
That is bullshit. What is the FSB clock change? That is
the only
one that REALLY matters.
BTW, if that is not really your valid e-mail, it is illegal
to use a
dot gov addy if it isn't legitimate. You could get nailed.

ok... on a PIII rated at 133 mhz FSB, I can run it at a 168 mhz
FSB with Arctic Silver... With the white silicone, I can get no
more than 147 mhz...

So it actually doesn't make any difference... or at least any
significant difference.

18 Mhz on the FSB does make for a gain, but it could very well have
been differences in mating efficiency that accounts for much of it.

 

[DarkMatter]

On Wed, 03 Dec 2003 14:51:55 GMT, "Daniel L. Belton" <abuse@spam.gov>
Gave us:

and I wonder what would happen if 20 of
those thermal pads were used...

Try it, and get back to us.

 

[DarkMatter]

On Wed, 3 Dec 2003 15:14:20 -0000, "Roger Hamlett"
<rogerspamignored@ttelmah.demon.co.uk> Gave us:

snip

Leaving the plastic 'tape' over the face of this one is
also quite common.

Not for anybody with a brain. Anyone that has been found to do this
should be stripped of their privileges to use a computer, and their
drivers license as well.

If they're *that* stupid, they shouldn't be inside a PC's case, or
behind the wheel of a car.

 

[cornytheclown]

Guy Macon <http://www.guymacon.com> wrote in message news:<77udnUSP2YWvxFai4p2dnA@speakeasy.net>...

Michael A. Terrell <mike.terrell@earthlink.net> says...

Guy Macon wrote:

DaveC <me@privacy.net> says...

White "tooth" paste kind, or clear greasy "hair stuff" kind?

Neither.

http://www.ksbrainstorms.com/index.php?pagename=Arctic_Silver_5_Review
http://www.xbox-connection.com/hostedsites/hotlinesrc//reviews/arcticsilver5.php
http://www.overklokking.no/annet/arctic_silver_5/eindex.html
http://overclockersclub.com/reviews/articsilvercermaiquereview.php
http://www.modsynergy.com/Review%20109.htm

--
Guy Macon, Electronics Engineer & Project Manager for hire.
Remember Doc Brown from the _Back to the Future_ movies? Do you
have an "impossible" engineering project that only someone like
Doc Brown can solve? My resume is at http://www.guymacon.com/

Make sure you use all the other over hyped crap so it doesn't get
lonely.

I would find it easier to believe that it was overhyped crap if
I wasn't typing this on a quad processor Compaq Proliant that
has the CPUs runnin 10 degrees C cooler since I replaced the
OEM heat sink compound.

OEM installations are probably done under greater stress and are
therefore going to consist of shoddy skills. I pulled my old computer
apart in search of salvageable surface mount components and board
hardware and the heatsink grease from the processor must have been
applied with a mop as there was a streak of that leaked several inches
from the cpu where it had been applied in a giant glob. Too much is
just as bad as not enough.......I dont think you will see a noticebale
difference between brands when applied in a like manner.

 

[Floyd Davidson]

"Daniel L. Belton" <abuse@spam.gov> wrote:

Floyd Davidson wrote:
"Daniel L. Belton" <abuse@spam.gov> wrote:
ok... on a PIII rated at 133 mhz FSB, I can run it at a 168 mhz
FSB with Arctic Silver... With the white silicone, I can get no
more than 147 mhz...
So it actually doesn't make any difference... or at least any
significant difference.


a 19 mhz difference isn't significant? on a pIII 1ghz cpu, that
translates into a 142.5 mhz gain...

that's over 10%, so it looks really significant to me.

Wow, I bet your editor just screams! ;-)

Hey, lets be honest. It is *fun* to do, but it doesn't make
a significant difference (other than in how fast your heart
beats as you test it again).

A 50% speed increase is almost significant. A 100% increase is
worth at least a little effort, but not much. Speed increases
are only worth spending money on if you get something more than
a 2x increase.

A 10% increase is not noticable to users, and requires
sophisticated equipment to even verify.

But most of all, every 18 months there is another cpu available
at twice the speed...

--
Floyd L. Davidson <http://web.newsguy.com/floyd_davidson>
Ukpeagvik (Barrow, Alaska) floyd@barrow.com

 

[DarkMatter]

On Thu, 04 Dec 2003 00:29:34 GMT, "Daniel L. Belton" <abuse@spam.gov>
Gave us:

snipped previous

Floyd Davidson wrote:

So it actually doesn't make any difference... or at least any
significant difference.


a 19 mhz difference isn't significant? on a pIII 1ghz cpu, that
translates into a 142.5 mhz gain...

that's over 10%, so it looks really significant to me.

What are the bench numbers though?

Or better yet... how many seti units per day can it do?

I have one here that does 17 a day, WHILE I still use the machine or
whatever I wish. Dual CPU.

Seti performance is largely regarded as a very good perf bench, as
there are 4.8 million users, and many of those quite prestigious
firms. The per unit time is a very good indicator of you machine,
regardless of what a math bench or other aggregate bench "tells" you.


I have nearly 14k units done, placing me in the 99.81 percentile.
That puts 91,430 people or groups in front of me.

Still, not bad out of 477780001 users, most of which have only done
one unit and quit... wussies. My seti operations have never slowed my
machine. I do turn it off when I burn discs at fast rates to minimize
the chance of a failed burn.

Anyway... good bench to try and report on.

 

[Daniel L. Belton]

DarkMatter wrote:

On Wed, 03 Dec 2003 13:45:47 GMT, "Daniel L. Belton" <abuse@spam.gov
Gave us:


DarkMatter wrote:


On Tue, 02 Dec 2003 09:08:54 GMT, "Daniel L. Belton" <abuse@spam.gov
Gave us:



Ok... Let me put it into numbers... when overclocking my computer, I
get approx. 400 mhz more out of it when using arctic silver over the
white goop...



Being an overclocker, you should know better than to give the
multiplied number as in 2.4 GHz OC'd to 2.8, a 400MHz gain.
Bullshit.

That is bullshit. What is the FSB clock change? That is the only
one that REALLY matters.

BTW, if that is not really your valid e-mail, it is illegal to use a
dot gov addy if it isn't legitimate. You could get nailed.

ok... on a PIII rated at 133 mhz FSB, I can run it at a 168 mhz FSB
with Arctic Silver... With the white silicone, I can get no more than
147 mhz...



seal the entire case up with silicone rubber RTV, and fill it with
chilled Fluorinert, a DuPont brand perfluorocarbon dielectric fluid.

You can go down to around 20 F below zero with that setup, and never
get condensation because all air, and water is displaced.

You could likely push your FSB up to around 3 to 5 hundred MHz with
it. Easily.

Cost: Around $480 a gallon. Must pressure seal the case as well,
or it will eventually evaporate. Need a couple gallons for a full
tower. Also needed2 would be the chiller equipment, and the pump

Yes, and the cost per Mhz gain would be much higher than the cost per
Mhz gain for a tube of arctic silver

 

[Daniel L. Belton]

DarkMatter wrote:

On Wed, 3 Dec 2003 15:14:20 -0000, "Roger Hamlett"
rogerspamignored@ttelmah.demon.co.uk> Gave us:

snip


Leaving the plastic 'tape' over the face of this one is
also quite common.



Not for anybody with a brain. Anyone that has been found to do this
should be stripped of their privileges to use a computer, and their
drivers license as well.

If they're *that* stupid, they shouldn't be inside a PC's case, or
behind the wheel of a car.

I will agree 100% with that! but unfortunently, there are people out
there that do those things...

 

[Daniel L. Belton]

Floyd Davidson wrote:

"Daniel L. Belton" <abuse@spam.gov> wrote:

Floyd Davidson wrote:

"Daniel L. Belton" <abuse@spam.gov> wrote:

ok... on a PIII rated at 133 mhz FSB, I can run it at a 168 mhz
FSB with Arctic Silver... With the white silicone, I can get no
more than 147 mhz...

So it actually doesn't make any difference... or at least any
significant difference.


a 19 mhz difference isn't significant? on a pIII 1ghz cpu, that
translates into a 142.5 mhz gain...

that's over 10%, so it looks really significant to me.


Wow, I bet your editor just screams! ;-)

Hey, lets be honest. It is *fun* to do, but it doesn't make
a significant difference (other than in how fast your heart
beats as you test it again).

A 50% speed increase is almost significant. A 100% increase is
worth at least a little effort, but not much. Speed increases
are only worth spending money on if you get something more than
a 2x increase.

A 10% increase is not noticable to users, and requires
sophisticated equipment to even verify.

But most of all, every 18 months there is another cpu available
at twice the speed...

You are correct... there is not nearly as noticable gain from
overclocking a system as there was just a few years ago. It is still
fun to try and tweak a few mhz out of it....

 

[DarkMatter]

On Thu, 04 Dec 2003 06:23:45 GMT, "Daniel L. Belton" <abuse@spam.gov>
Gave us:

Yes, and the cost per Mhz gain would be much higher than the cost per
Mhz gain for a tube of arctic silver

So what? Cost was never the question when OCing was mentioned.

It isn't much different than those machine wars.

My screamin' box would outperform all. That holds value with most
OCers.

 

[Roger Hamlett]

"Daniel L. Belton" <abuse@spam.gov> wrote in message
news:hrAzb.3589$z71.1538@fe2.columbus.rr.com...

DarkMatter wrote:

On Wed, 3 Dec 2003 15:14:20 -0000, "Roger Hamlett"
rogerspamignored@ttelmah.demon.co.uk> Gave us:

snip


Leaving the plastic 'tape' over the face of this one is
also quite common.



Not for anybody with a brain. Anyone that has been found to do this
should be stripped of their privileges to use a computer, and their
drivers license as well.

If they're *that* stupid, they shouldn't be inside a PC's case, or
behind the wheel of a car.
No. Be gentle. Just make it a capital offence...

I will agree 100% with that! but unfortunently, there are people out
there that do those things...
Yes. Levels of incompetence, are things that have to be seen to be believed

at times...

Best Wishes

 

[Roger Hamlett]

"DarkMatter" <DarkMatter@thebarattheendoftheuniverse.org> wrote in message
news:ct5tsvks1si5gsg5imiganfs3fl8sttdsa@4ax.com...

On Wed, 3 Dec 2003 13:46:40 -0000, "Roger Hamlett"
rogerspamignored@ttelmah.demon.co.uk> Gave us:


"Daniel L. Belton" <abuse@spam.gov> wrote in message
news:nLlzb.4429$Lr6.144@fe1.columbus.rr.com...
Robert Baer wrote:
"Daniel L. Belton" wrote:

DaveC wrote:


White "tooth" paste kind, or clear greasy "hair stuff" kind?

Actually, the silvery kind

http://www.arcticsilver.com


The "arctic silver compound" is *bad* stuff.
It migrates all over hell and back, not only making a crappy
looking
mess, but also has been reported to do damage to electrical contacts.

Never had that problem here using it for more than 4 years on several
hundred CPU's and chipsets
The problem is not with the paste, but with people applying it...
I had one guy, who was having problems with his machine. Knowing he had
just
upgraded the processor, I asked what he had used for the thermal contact.
He
assured me it was fine, with 'plenty of grease'. Inspection showed that
he
had used perhaps 1/3rd of a tube, on one processor!.
Applied in a very thin layer, it works well, but the paste is so thin,
that
if there is even a small amount of surplus, it may well migrate to places
which cause problems.

Being a non-conductor, it is very unlikely that it could find
anywhere to migrate to that would cause an electrical "problem".

You may well be talking shit on that "point".

Now, that silver crap is conductive.
Since it was the _silver_ paste that I was talking about, if you actually

read the post, I think you are the one talking c*&%...

There are specific applications for each. The grease/cream is 100%
non-conductive. and requires an all but zero gap.
The grease/cream, is not '100% non-conductive'. There is no such thing. It

is a fairly good insulator, but not perfect...

The silver filled media is also a direct mate interface material,
but can still pass heat well in tests where small gaps were
introduced, or the two surfaces were not coplanar.

Best Wishes

 

[DarkMatter]

On Thu, 4 Dec 2003 10:13:14 -0000, "Roger Hamlett"
<rogerspamignored@ttelmah.demon.co.uk> Gave us:

The grease/cream, is not '100% non-conductive'. There is no such thing. It
is a fairly good insulator, but not perfect...

Now you are just being a fucking retard.

Ever heard the expression for all intents and purposes?

We use the same grease to grease down the ten inch stinger that goes
into a 50kV HV connector. The shit is non-conductive, you retarded
prude.