best design/sim for beginner

F

FinePC

Guest
I would like everybody's opinion on what I should start with!

I want to plug in schematics and sim test them then build. Totally bypassing
the bread board. I looked around and saw many apps are limited on one way or
another, this bothers me.

TIA
 
On Thu, 18 Mar 2004 14:42:52 -0700, "FinePC" <finepc@aaahawk.com>
wrote:

I would like everybody's opinion on what I should start with!

I want to plug in schematics and sim test them then build. Totally bypassing
the bread board. I looked around and saw many apps are limited on one way or
another, this bothers me.

TIA
That's a lot of opinions you want!
You don't say what type of simulation(s) you need to do. Digital,
analog, RF, ...

If analog, use Linear Technology's LTSpice. It's free and works quite
well. Don't let the price tag fool you. It's on par with the high cost
simulators. It also has a schematic editor included.

If your serious about using Spice, then learn how to hand code your
circuits first. LTSpice will read in ASCII .cir files. You need to
understand the Spice syntax before jumping in bed with the friendly
schematic interface that hides the actual meat. Lots of tutorials on
basic Spice usage on the web.

If your trying to do digital, then be prepared to dish out USD 10k to
100k. Then be prepared to fight with the tools.
 
In article <3ulk50pb7t6hubrtmakpl7c20br0aaoqj2@4ax.com>,
qrk <mark@reson.DELETE.ME.com> writes:
On Thu, 18 Mar 2004 14:42:52 -0700, "FinePC" <finepc@aaahawk.com
wrote:

I would like everybody's opinion on what I should start with!

I want to plug in schematics and sim test them then build. Totally bypassing
the bread board. I looked around and saw many apps are limited on one way or
another, this bothers me.

TIA

That's a lot of opinions you want!
You don't say what type of simulation(s) you need to do. Digital,
analog, RF, ...

If analog, use Linear Technology's LTSpice. It's free and works quite
well. Don't let the price tag fool you. It's on par with the high cost
simulators. It also has a schematic editor included.

In some (most) of my tests, the LTSpice software works BETTER than
most of the alternatives that I have tried. I am NOT meaning to
compare anything else unfavorably with LTSpice, but that LTSpice
is incredibly good. Between several other choices that have
been installed on my system (including my own legacy port of SPICE2 and
SPICE3/XSPICE), LTSpice is my favorite.

John
 
qrk wrote:
On Thu, 18 Mar 2004 14:42:52 -0700, "FinePC" <finepc@aaahawk.com
wrote:

I would like everybody's opinion on what I should start with!

I want to plug in schematics and sim test them then build. Totally
bypassing the bread board. I looked around and saw many apps are
limited on one way or another, this bothers me.

TIA

That's a lot of opinions you want!
You don't say what type of simulation(s) you need to do. Digital,
analog, RF, ...

If analog, use Linear Technology's LTSpice. It's free and works quite
well. Don't let the price tag fool you. It's on par with the high cost
simulators. It also has a schematic editor included.

If your serious about using Spice, then learn how to hand code your
circuits first.
I don't agree with this. Sure, its helpful to know about netlists, and I
would certainly recommend that someone learn a bit about them, but *not*
first. The first thing to do is to get a feel for spice itself by
running simulations. End of story. *Today*, leaning netlists first is a
complication that is simply not required. Why learn to change spark
plugs before you take your first driving lesson? In principle, one can
use spice without ever having to see a netlist.

As far of best ease of use in a Spice program, I will obviously point
out which one that is, its my SuperSpice http://www.anasoft.co.uk

Kevin Aylward
salesEXTRACT@anasoft.co.uk
http://www.anasoft.co.uk
SuperSpice, a very affordable Mixed-Mode
Windows Simulator with Schematic Capture,
Waveform Display, FFT's and Filter Design.

"quotes with no meaning, are meaningless" - Kevin Aylward.
 
"FinePC" <finepc@aaahawk.com> wrote:

I would like everybody's opinion on what I should start with!
Ambitious - but you might get a few.

I want to plug in schematics and sim test them then build. Totally bypassing
the bread board. I looked around and saw many apps are limited on one way or
another, this bothers me.
Do you mean there are some particular (so far undefined) limitations
you must avoid (at some undefined cost)? Or do you mean you just want
to buy straight into perfection and want to know the product's name?

Did your looking around include my notes and links to some 60 ECAD
programs at http://www.terrypin.dial.pipex.com/ECADList.html
which includes quite a few with reasonable simulation facilities?

--
Terry Pinnell
Hobbyist, West Sussex, UK
 
John S. Dyson wrote:

In article <3ulk50pb7t6hubrtmakpl7c20br0aaoqj2@4ax.com>,
qrk <mark@reson.DELETE.ME.com> writes:
On Thu, 18 Mar 2004 14:42:52 -0700, "FinePC" <finepc@aaahawk.com
wrote:

I would like everybody's opinion on what I should start with!

I want to plug in schematics and sim test them then build. Totally
bypassing the bread board. I looked around and saw many apps are limited
on one way or another, this bothers me.

TIA

That's a lot of opinions you want!
You don't say what type of simulation(s) you need to do. Digital,
analog, RF, ...

If analog, use Linear Technology's LTSpice. It's free and works quite
well. Don't let the price tag fool you. It's on par with the high cost
simulators. It also has a schematic editor included.

In some (most) of my tests, the LTSpice software works BETTER than
most of the alternatives that I have tried. I am NOT meaning to
compare anything else unfavorably with LTSpice, but that LTSpice
is incredibly good. Between several other choices that have
been installed on my system (including my own legacy port of SPICE2 and
SPICE3/XSPICE), LTSpice is my favorite.

John
And you get get it to run under linux too.

Ian
 
For anyone wanting a capable and relatively low-cost system for
protype work I would always recommend Easy-PC and Easy-Spice. The
beauty of this system is the Spice is integrated into the
Schematics/PCB product.

The Spice part includes a tutorial. My Easy-Spice was $450 and
Easy-PC starts as low as $150. You can download an Easy-Spice and
Easy-PC demo from www.numberone.com

Don Prescott
 
FinePC screams:
I would like everybody's opinion on what I should start with!

I want to plug in schematics and sim test them then build. Totally bypassing
the bread board. I looked around and saw many apps are limited on one way or
another, this bothers me.
LTSpice for analog design. www.linear.com
SIMetrix Intro (the "freeware" version) is quite good for basic digital design.
www.catena.uk.com


--
Chaos MasterŽ - Porto Alegre, RS, Brazil
irc.brasnet.org - #xlinuxnews and #poa
marreka.no-ip.com (ainda năo pronto)
LRU #327480
 
qrk wrote:
On Fri, 19 Mar 2004 09:21:09 -0000, "Kevin Aylward"
kevindotaylwardEXTRACT@anasoft.co.uk> wrote:

qrk wrote:
On Thu, 18 Mar 2004 14:42:52 -0700, "FinePC" <finepc@aaahawk.com
wrote:

I would like everybody's opinion on what I should start with!

I want to plug in schematics and sim test them then build. Totally
bypassing the bread board. I looked around and saw many apps are
limited on one way or another, this bothers me.

TIA

That's a lot of opinions you want!
You don't say what type of simulation(s) you need to do. Digital,
analog, RF, ...

If analog, use Linear Technology's LTSpice. It's free and works
quite well. Don't let the price tag fool you. It's on par with the
high cost simulators. It also has a schematic editor included.

If your serious about using Spice, then learn how to hand code your
circuits first.

I don't agree with this. Sure, its helpful to know about netlists,
and I would certainly recommend that someone learn a bit about them,
but *not* first. The first thing to do is to get a feel for spice
itself by running simulations. End of story. *Today*, leaning
netlists first is a complication that is simply not required. Why
learn to change spark plugs before you take your first driving
lesson? In principle, one can use spice without ever having to see a
netlist.

Because, when your car craps out on the motorway, it helps to
understand how things work under the hood.
Lets say that 50% of drivers are women. Like, the're going to change
spark plugs?

If my car breaks down, I call a tow truck. Reminds me of a Frazier
episode, which went something like:

Frazier: "If you look in the glove compartment, ther is a tool
kit...pause....behind it is my mobile phone, pass it to me so that I can
call a breakdown service."

I learned basic car engine
repair and maintenance before I could reach the pedals. Sure glad I
learned the "wrong" way.
Maybe it worked for you. This has little relevance for the population at
large. Very few know, or require to know, anything about car mechanics.
Its just the way it is.

For example, in the UK it was made mandatory to supply electrical
applies with power plugs attached to their cords. This wasn't always the
case. Apparently, around 60% of the population can't fit a plug.

Notice, I prefaced my opinion with "if you're serious...".
1000's of "serious" professional analogue i.c. designers know,
essentially, nothing about spice models. They have a cad team taking
care of it.

If you want
to fiddle-fart with Spice, use the nice GUI.
Even if your serious, you don't want to start worrying about the details
*first*. You want to get a good handle on the big picture.

Once you start dealing
with tool and model issues, it sure helps to understand the ASCII
netlist.
Which is what I said. However, its a matter of learning to walk before
one can run. Educating techniques are well known and pretty standard in
this area. Its far easier learning things in stages. You get someone to
kick a ball about before you start teaching detailed theoretical
strategy, or in US terms I think its "game plans".

I am not debating the merits of whether or not its useful to learn more
detailed knowledge, of course it is. I am debating what is better
learned *first*. On this I don't see it as debatable.

Kevin Aylward
salesEXTRACT@anasoft.co.uk
http://www.anasoft.co.uk
SuperSpice, a very affordable Mixed-Mode
Windows Simulator with Schematic Capture,
Waveform Display, FFT's and Filter Design.

"quotes with no meaning, are meaningless" - Kevin Aylward.
 

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