Back annotation from CAD into Text documents?

Joerg · Jul 20, 2005

Hello Folks,

Is there a way to back annotate a text from a schematic or netlist
output or other means?

I write my docs while doing the schematic and can only use the
designators as they pop up when parts are placed. However, when doing
the renumbering so R1, C1, Q1 and so on start at the upper left all
designators change. Then it's hand editing the text.

When the layouters are done they send back annotation again. Then the
text needs to be edited. Again. Any hope?

Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/

Jim Thompson · Jul 24, 2005

On Wed, 20 Jul 2005 19:27:02 GMT, Joerg
<notthisjoergsch@removethispacbell.net> wrote:

Hello Folks,

Is there a way to back annotate a text from a schematic or netlist
output or other means?

I write my docs while doing the schematic and can only use the
designators as they pop up when parts are placed. However, when doing
the renumbering so R1, C1, Q1 and so on start at the upper left all
designators change. Then it's hand editing the text.

When the layouters are done they send back annotation again. Then the
text needs to be edited. Again. Any hope?

Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/

480)460-2350 | |
| E-mail Address at Website Fax

Joerg · Jul 24, 2005

Hello Jim,

Hi Joerg, I'm not quite following you. Examples?

When I start a design I place parts as I go. Let's say, the switcher
first just to get the ugly stuff out of the way. Then maybe an amp in
the lower left, then a digital section in the upper right.

Now the part designators will be nearly random. R1 is somewhere in the
middle because I had place it first, C1 somewhere else because that was
my first cap. At the same time I begin writing the module spec, using
these designators as Cadsoft Eagle assigns them. It assigns them in a
way that the number increases by one every time you place, regardless
where on the board you place. This was the same with OrCad and others.

To make a schematic more readable to the client's engineers it is then
customary to run a "re-number". Now R1 is in the upper left corner, so
is C1, Q1 and so on. Then the designator numbers increase towards the
lower right. IOW what used to be R1 is now R83. The dilemma: Now none of
the designators in my module spec are correct. They all need to be
changed by hand.

Ok, off to layout. Usually done by third parties just like you have
yours done outside. If it is a large board it is again customary to
start C1, R1, Q1 and so on in the upper left of the physical PCB. That
may not at all be the circuitry that is in the upper left of the
schematic, meaning the resistor I had changed from R1 to R83 in the spec
now becomes R37. So here I go again, having to change all the numbers in
the module spec for the second time.

Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com

Jim Thompson · Jul 24, 2005

On Sun, 24 Jul 2005 21:40:27 GMT, Joerg
<notthisjoergsch@removethispacbell.net> wrote:

Hello Jim,

Hi Joerg, I'm not quite following you. Examples?

When I start a design I place parts as I go. Let's say, the switcher
first just to get the ugly stuff out of the way. Then maybe an amp in
the lower left, then a digital section in the upper right.

Now the part designators will be nearly random. R1 is somewhere in the
middle because I had place it first, C1 somewhere else because that was
my first cap. At the same time I begin writing the module spec, using
these designators as Cadsoft Eagle assigns them. It assigns them in a
way that the number increases by one every time you place, regardless
where on the board you place. This was the same with OrCad and others.

To make a schematic more readable to the client's engineers it is then
customary to run a "re-number". Now R1 is in the upper left corner, so
is C1, Q1 and so on. Then the designator numbers increase towards the
lower right. IOW what used to be R1 is now R83. The dilemma: Now none of
the designators in my module spec are correct. They all need to be
changed by hand.

Ok, off to layout. Usually done by third parties just like you have
yours done outside. If it is a large board it is again customary to
start C1, R1, Q1 and so on in the upper left of the physical PCB. That
may not at all be the circuitry that is in the upper left of the
schematic, meaning the resistor I had changed from R1 to R83 in the spec
now becomes R37. So here I go again, having to change all the numbers in
the module spec for the second time.

Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com

480)460-2350 | |
| E-mail Address at Website Fax

Joerg · Jul 24, 2005

Hello Jim,

Why don't you just write your documentation _after_ you have a final
schematic?

Writing in parallel helps a lot in making sure it is complete and all
thoughts are in there. The thoughts might not all stay but I won't
forget any. Too often I have seen engineers design a complicated board
the size of a baking pan and then scratch their head later. What was I
thinking? Why did I do that over here? What's L3 doing in there?

I grew up in med electronics and we are all used to this. In the med
world parallel documenting is actually regulated into the process, at
least for sensitive gear. You have to create a design history file. And
when the FDA inspector cometh that file better be there.

I think OrCAD has management tools built-in??

Mine didn't but it's old. I am not aware of anything in there until
version 9 that would do document back annotation.

BTW, Cadsoft Eagle does a nice job in design history. I print every
intermediate step and stamp the date and time on it. But this CAD
program also keeps these files as running backups. So I could always
show the version I had, say, Monday last week.

Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com

Joerg · Jul 24, 2005

Hello Jim,

Why don't you just write your documentation _after_ you have a final
schematic?

Writing in parallel helps a lot in making sure it is complete and all
thoughts are in there. The thoughts might not all stay but I won't
forget any. Too often I have seen engineers design a complicated board
the size of a baking pan and then scratch their head later. What was I
thinking? Why did I do that over here? What's L3 doing in there?

I grew up in med electronics and we are all used to this. In the med
world parallel documenting is actually regulated into the process, at
least for sensitive gear. You have to create a design history file. And
when the FDA inspector cometh that file better be there.

BTW, when a client's engineer crashed his motorcycle the fact that he
kept his spec current saved their bacon. I could jump right in.

I think OrCAD has management tools built-in??

Mine didn't but it's old. I am not aware of anything in there until
version 9 that would do document back annotation.

BTW, Cadsoft Eagle does a nice job in design history. I print every
intermediate step and stamp the date and time on it. But this CAD
program also keeps these files as running backups. So I could always
show the version I had, say, Monday last week.

Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com

Jim Thompson · Jul 24, 2005

On Sun, 24 Jul 2005 23:06:35 GMT, Joerg
<notthisjoergsch@removethispacbell.net> wrote:

Hello Jim,

Why don't you just write your documentation _after_ you have a final
schematic?

Writing in parallel helps a lot in making sure it is complete and all
thoughts are in there. The thoughts might not all stay but I won't
forget any. Too often I have seen engineers design a complicated board
the size of a baking pan and then scratch their head later. What was I
thinking? Why did I do that over here? What's L3 doing in there?

I grew up in med electronics and we are all used to this. In the med
world parallel documenting is actually regulated into the process, at
least for sensitive gear. You have to create a design history file. And
when the FDA inspector cometh that file better be there.

BTW, when a client's engineer crashed his motorcycle the fact that he
kept his spec current saved their bacon. I could jump right in.

I think OrCAD has management tools built-in??

Mine didn't but it's old. I am not aware of anything in there until
version 9 that would do document back annotation.

BTW, Cadsoft Eagle does a nice job in design history. I print every
intermediate step and stamp the date and time on it. But this CAD
program also keeps these files as running backups. So I could always
show the version I had, say, Monday last week.

Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com

I use Macro Express. One of many macros I've written adds a time and
date stamp. And, anytime I make a change, I simply "Save As" to keep
track of the REV's. PSpice also has "Checkpoints", storing
intermediate steps in building a schematic, but I always forget to use
it ;-)

...Jim Thompson
--
| James E.Thompson, P.E. | mens |
| Analog Innovations, Inc. | et |
| Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems | manus |
| Phoenix, Arizona Voice

480)460-2350 | |
| E-mail Address at Website Fax

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