B&K 4007DDS sweep generator

O

oparr@hotmail.com

Guest
Anyone familiar with this or 4013DDS? Normally, one can read the
manual for a product before buyng to get a pretty good idea of what it
can do but in this case the manual is far from being comprehensive;

http://www.bkprecision.com/products/docs/manuals/4007DDS_manual.pdf

I'm used to range confining function generators that prevent you from
manually "sweeping" from say 10Hz to 400KHz in one go. The 4007DDS
manual says the following but doesn't elaborate any further;

"It provides sine & square wave outputs over the frequency range from
0.1 Hz to 7 MHz in one
extended range (triangle/ramped wave outputs to 100KHz)."

Am I to assume that I can now set a square wave range with start/stop
frequencies of say 10Hz/400KHz then either manually "sweep" or program
sweeps from 10Hz to 400KHz with this puppy?

Thanks! (I'll call B&K next)
 
oparr@hotmail.com wrote:
Anyone familiar with this or 4013DDS? Normally, one can read the
manual for a product before buyng to get a pretty good idea of what it
can do but in this case the manual is far from being comprehensive;

http://www.bkprecision.com/products/docs/manuals/4007DDS_manual.pdf

I'm used to range confining function generators that prevent you from
manually "sweeping" from say 10Hz to 400KHz in one go. The 4007DDS
manual says the following but doesn't elaborate any further;

"It provides sine & square wave outputs over the frequency range from
0.1 Hz to 7 MHz in one
extended range (triangle/ramped wave outputs to 100KHz)."

Am I to assume that I can now set a square wave range with start/stop
frequencies of say 10Hz/400KHz then either manually "sweep" or program
sweeps from 10Hz to 400KHz with this puppy?

Thanks! (I'll call B&K next)

Yes. That is what a sweep function generator does.
Click to expand...

You should be able to sweep the whole range if you wish.

I just looked at where I bought my Regal function generator recently,
and it seems it's no longer made. To bad, because its a nice one that
got replaced by a 40/25 Mhz version. How ever, these have arbitrary
functions in them that allows you to design your own wave forms and has
USB host for drive stick etc.

I paid $450 for mine. It would of been a much better deal if they
still had some.

The replacement units now cost under $1k.
 
Yes. That is what a sweep function generator does.
You should be able to sweep the whole range if you wish.
Click to expand...
Thanks! I see sweep function generators with range switches and you
can only manually operate within each range at a time. This is what
I'm trying to avoid since that would be no different to the function
generator I'm now using. Are you saying that in such cases the
programmable sweep range would not be limited to these ranges?

On Sep 13, 3:36 pm, Jamie
<jamie_ka1lpa_not_valid_after_ka1l...@charter.net> wrote:
>
 
oparr@hotmail.com wrote:

Yes. That is what a sweep function generator does.
You should be able to sweep the whole range if you wish.


Thanks! I see sweep function generators with range switches and you
can only manually operate within each range at a time. This is what
I'm trying to avoid since that would be no different to the function
generator I'm now using. Are you saying that in such cases the
programmable sweep range would not be limited to these ranges?

On Sep 13, 3:36 pm, Jamie
jamie_ka1lpa_not_valid_after_ka1l...@charter.net> wrote:

DDS technology is a synthesis of the frequency, little is
Click to expand...
done as for as, RC type of circuits being switch in/out over the
range. Your range seems to be minor in demand.


This is digitally done, so there is not reason why it can't be done.
I've never tried that with mine because I don't need that wide of a
sweep how ever, I know that I can put in any start and any end I want
, up to the limits of the unit, which 20 mhz.
 
On Sep 13, 2:45 pm, "op...@hotmail.com" <op...@hotmail.com> wrote:
Anyone familiar with this or 4013DDS? Normally, one can read the
manual for a product before buyng to get a pretty good idea of what it
can do but in this case the manual is far from being comprehensive;

http://www.bkprecision.com/products/docs/manuals/4007DDS_manual.pdf

I'm used to range confining function generators that prevent you from
manually "sweeping" from say 10Hz to 400KHz in one go. The 4007DDS
manual says the following but doesn't elaborate any further;

"It provides sine & square wave outputs over the frequency range from
0.1 Hz to 7 MHz in one
extended range (triangle/ramped wave outputs to 100KHz)."

Am I to assume that I can now set a square wave range with start/stop
frequencies of say 10Hz/400KHz then either manually "sweep" or program
sweeps from 10Hz to 400KHz with this puppy?

Thanks! (I'll call B&K next)
Click to expand...
I needed a frequency generator that had sub Hz resolution. We bought
this cheap one from protek and I really like it. The manual also
stinks.


George H.
 
On Mon, 14 Sep 2009 06:46:30 -0700 (PDT), George
Herold <ggherold@gmail.com> wrote:

I needed a frequency generator that had sub Hz resolution. We bought
this cheap one from protek and I really like it. The manual also
stinks.
Click to expand...
For anyone that doesn't need to go outside the
sound card audio range, the signal generator in
Daqarta uses your sound card and provides
resolution of 1/65536 Hz (0.000015 Hz). It's
totally free. (Daqarta's 30-session/30-day trial
period applies to using the inputs... the outputs
from the generator continue to work forever.)

Best regards,


Bob Masta

DAQARTA v4.51
Data AcQuisition And Real-Time Analysis
www.daqarta.com
Scope, Spectrum, Spectrogram, Sound Level Meter
FREE Signal Generator
Science with your sound card!
 
              DAQARTA  v4.51
   Data AcQuisition And Real-Time Analysis
             www.daqarta.com
Scope, Spectrum, Spectrogram, Sound Level Meter
           FREE Signal Generator
        Science with your sound card!
Click to expand...
Relevant and useful spam, thanks!
 
On Sep 15, 1:09 pm, "op...@hotmail.com" <op...@hotmail.com> wrote:
              DAQARTA  v4.51
   Data AcQuisition And Real-Time Analysis
             www.daqarta.com
Scope, Spectrum, Spectrogram, Sound Level Meter
           FREE Signal Generator
        Science with your sound card!

Relevant and useful spam, thanks!
Click to expand...
Hmm that's not spam then... bacon?

Bob, I mean to drop you an email also.

George H.
(gherold_at_teacshspin.com)
 
oparr@hotmail.com wrote:
Called B&K and asked a few questions about the 4007DDS. The fellow
actually had one working nearby apparently and we went through its
paces over the phone. I recall him mumbling something about the
resolution of the frequency control but paid it no mind and went ahead
and ordered one....Big mistake!!!

All the range buttons do is move the decimal point up and down which
would be okay provided frequency control had a coarse option. Instead,
frequency control seems to be via some multiturn rotary optical device
which is good from a "no pot wear perspective" but it takes like 10
revs of the control knob just to change the frequency from say 1KHz to
5KHz. Now I understand what the fellow was saying about
resolution....It's too darn fine!!!

But it doesn't end there...You lose the last frequency and decimal
setting when you turn off the device because it's all digital without
any memory. Also, the waveform selection switches are momentary so you
cannot "lock" the waveform. Long story short....You are returned to a
sinusoidal 1KHz frequency every time you switch on the device. The
workaround for that seems to be to leave it on....What a POS!!!

Finally, I'm yet to figure out how to have the frequency displayed
during sweeps. Maybe this is normal for sweep generators. Whatever,
I'm returning it even if it entails a restocking fee.

What I really want now is a programmable ramp generator and connect it
to the VCG input of my function generator. That way I can sweep up and
hold at the high end or sweep up then down continuously. Sweeping up
then starting over from the low end was never really a preference
anyway. Tried using low frequency 4007DDS triangle output as a RG but
have to keep adjusting the offset every time output level is
adjusted....A PITA.
You need something like this.
Click to expand...
http://www.tequipment.net/RigolDG2021A.html

I have a slightly older version that isn't as high in freq but
does basically the same.
These units have USB storage options and so on how ever, you'll
pay some money.

P.S.
That unit you got should of at least been able to retain it's last
set up from power cycle. That's a bad idea in equipment like that..

Also, normally you have a function to adjust the freq in digit segment
places. I don't understand why that one does not allow it.
 
Called B&K and asked a few questions about the 4007DDS. The fellow
actually had one working nearby apparently and we went through its
paces over the phone. I recall him mumbling something about the
resolution of the frequency control but paid it no mind and went ahead
and ordered one....Big mistake!!!

All the range buttons do is move the decimal point up and down which
would be okay provided frequency control had a coarse option. Instead,
frequency control seems to be via some multiturn rotary optical device
which is good from a "no pot wear perspective" but it takes like 10
revs of the control knob just to change the frequency from say 1KHz to
5KHz. Now I understand what the fellow was saying about
resolution....It's too darn fine!!!

But it doesn't end there...You lose the last frequency and decimal
setting when you turn off the device because it's all digital without
any memory. Also, the waveform selection switches are momentary so you
cannot "lock" the waveform. Long story short....You are returned to a
sinusoidal 1KHz frequency every time you switch on the device. The
workaround for that seems to be to leave it on....What a POS!!!

Finally, I'm yet to figure out how to have the frequency displayed
during sweeps. Maybe this is normal for sweep generators. Whatever,
I'm returning it even if it entails a restocking fee.

What I really want now is a programmable ramp generator and connect it
to the VCG input of my function generator. That way I can sweep up and
hold at the high end or sweep up then down continuously. Sweeping up
then starting over from the low end was never really a preference
anyway. Tried using low frequency 4007DDS triangle output as a RG but
have to keep adjusting the offset every time output level is
adjusted....A PITA.
 
"oparr@hotmail.com" wrote:
Called B&K and asked a few questions about the 4007DDS. The fellow
actually had one working nearby apparently and we went through its
paces over the phone. I recall him mumbling something about the
resolution of the frequency control but paid it no mind and went ahead
and ordered one....Big mistake!!!

All the range buttons do is move the decimal point up and down which
would be okay provided frequency control had a coarse option. Instead,
frequency control seems to be via some multiturn rotary optical device
which is good from a "no pot wear perspective" but it takes like 10
revs of the control knob just to change the frequency from say 1KHz to
5KHz. Now I understand what the fellow was saying about
resolution....It's too darn fine!!!

But it doesn't end there...You lose the last frequency and decimal
setting when you turn off the device because it's all digital without
any memory. Also, the waveform selection switches are momentary so you
cannot "lock" the waveform. Long story short....You are returned to a
sinusoidal 1KHz frequency every time you switch on the device. The
workaround for that seems to be to leave it on....What a POS!!!

Finally, I'm yet to figure out how to have the frequency displayed
during sweeps. Maybe this is normal for sweep generators. Whatever,
I'm returning it even if it entails a restocking fee.

What I really want now is a programmable ramp generator and connect it
to the VCG input of my function generator. That way I can sweep up and
hold at the high end or sweep up then down continuously. Sweeping up
then starting over from the low end was never really a preference
anyway. Tried using low frequency 4007DDS triangle output as a RG but
have to keep adjusting the offset every time output level is
adjusted....A PITA.
Click to expand...

If you want lab grade, you have to pay for it. Look for a good used
HP 3325B.


--
You can't have a sense of humor, if you have no sense!
 
Jamie wrote:
oparr@hotmail.com wrote:
Called B&K and asked a few questions about the 4007DDS. The fellow
actually had one working nearby apparently and we went through its
paces over the phone. I recall him mumbling something about the
resolution of the frequency control but paid it no mind and went ahead
and ordered one....Big mistake!!!

All the range buttons do is move the decimal point up and down which
would be okay provided frequency control had a coarse option. Instead,
frequency control seems to be via some multiturn rotary optical device
which is good from a "no pot wear perspective" but it takes like 10
revs of the control knob just to change the frequency from say 1KHz to
5KHz. Now I understand what the fellow was saying about
resolution....It's too darn fine!!!

But it doesn't end there...You lose the last frequency and decimal
setting when you turn off the device because it's all digital without
any memory. Also, the waveform selection switches are momentary so you
cannot "lock" the waveform. Long story short....You are returned to a
sinusoidal 1KHz frequency every time you switch on the device. The
workaround for that seems to be to leave it on....What a POS!!!

Finally, I'm yet to figure out how to have the frequency displayed
during sweeps. Maybe this is normal for sweep generators. Whatever,
I'm returning it even if it entails a restocking fee.

What I really want now is a programmable ramp generator and connect it
to the VCG input of my function generator. That way I can sweep up and
hold at the high end or sweep up then down continuously. Sweeping up
then starting over from the low end was never really a preference
anyway. Tried using low frequency 4007DDS triangle output as a RG but
have to keep adjusting the offset every time output level is
adjusted....A PITA.
You need something like this.
http://www.tequipment.net/RigolDG2021A.html

I have a slightly older version that isn't as high in freq but
does basically the same.
These units have USB storage options and so on how ever, you'll
pay some money.

P.S.
That unit you got should of at least been able to retain it's last
set up from power cycle. That's a bad idea in equipment like that..
Click to expand...

In YOUR opnion only.

Also, normally you have a function to adjust the freq in digit segment
places. I don't understand why that one does not allow it.
Click to expand...

Simple. It wasn't designed to.


--
You can't have a sense of humor, if you have no sense!
 
Michael A. Terrell wrote:

Jamie wrote:

oparr@hotmail.com wrote:

Called B&K and asked a few questions about the 4007DDS. The fellow
actually had one working nearby apparently and we went through its
paces over the phone. I recall him mumbling something about the
resolution of the frequency control but paid it no mind and went ahead
and ordered one....Big mistake!!!

All the range buttons do is move the decimal point up and down which
would be okay provided frequency control had a coarse option. Instead,
frequency control seems to be via some multiturn rotary optical device
which is good from a "no pot wear perspective" but it takes like 10
revs of the control knob just to change the frequency from say 1KHz to
5KHz. Now I understand what the fellow was saying about
resolution....It's too darn fine!!!

But it doesn't end there...You lose the last frequency and decimal
setting when you turn off the device because it's all digital without
any memory. Also, the waveform selection switches are momentary so you
cannot "lock" the waveform. Long story short....You are returned to a
sinusoidal 1KHz frequency every time you switch on the device. The
workaround for that seems to be to leave it on....What a POS!!!

Finally, I'm yet to figure out how to have the frequency displayed
during sweeps. Maybe this is normal for sweep generators. Whatever,
I'm returning it even if it entails a restocking fee.

What I really want now is a programmable ramp generator and connect it
to the VCG input of my function generator. That way I can sweep up and
hold at the high end or sweep up then down continuously. Sweeping up
then starting over from the low end was never really a preference
anyway. Tried using low frequency 4007DDS triangle output as a RG but
have to keep adjusting the offset every time output level is
adjusted....A PITA.

You need something like this.
http://www.tequipment.net/RigolDG2021A.html

I have a slightly older version that isn't as high in freq but
does basically the same.
These units have USB storage options and so on how ever, you'll
pay some money.

P.S.
That unit you got should of at least been able to retain it's last
set up from power cycle. That's a bad idea in equipment like that..



In YOUR opnion only.


Also, normally you have a function to adjust the freq in digit segment
places. I don't understand why that one does not allow it.



Simple. It wasn't designed to.


You're so enthusiastic, its just making me jump
Click to expand...
up and down in joy!.
 
Michael A. Terrell wrote:
"oparr@hotmail.com" wrote:
Called B&K and asked a few questions about the 4007DDS. The fellow
actually had one working nearby apparently and we went through its
paces over the phone. I recall him mumbling something about the
resolution of the frequency control but paid it no mind and went ahead
and ordered one....Big mistake!!!

All the range buttons do is move the decimal point up and down which
would be okay provided frequency control had a coarse option. Instead,
frequency control seems to be via some multiturn rotary optical device
which is good from a "no pot wear perspective" but it takes like 10
revs of the control knob just to change the frequency from say 1KHz to
5KHz. Now I understand what the fellow was saying about
resolution....It's too darn fine!!!

But it doesn't end there...You lose the last frequency and decimal
setting when you turn off the device because it's all digital without
any memory. Also, the waveform selection switches are momentary so you
cannot "lock" the waveform. Long story short....You are returned to a
sinusoidal 1KHz frequency every time you switch on the device. The
workaround for that seems to be to leave it on....What a POS!!!

Finally, I'm yet to figure out how to have the frequency displayed
during sweeps. Maybe this is normal for sweep generators. Whatever,
I'm returning it even if it entails a restocking fee.

What I really want now is a programmable ramp generator and connect it
to the VCG input of my function generator. That way I can sweep up and
hold at the high end or sweep up then down continuously. Sweeping up
then starting over from the low end was never really a preference
anyway. Tried using low frequency 4007DDS triangle output as a RG but
have to keep adjusting the offset every time output level is
adjusted....A PITA.


If you want lab grade, you have to pay for it. Look for a good used
HP 3325B.
Click to expand...
They aren't very expensive just now.

Cheers

Phil Hobbs

--
Dr Philip C D Hobbs
Principal
ElectroOptical Innovations
55 Orchard Rd
Briarcliff Manor NY 10510
845-480-2058
hobbs at electrooptical dot net
http://electrooptical.net
 
Jamie wrote:
Michael A. Terrell wrote:

Jamie wrote:

oparr@hotmail.com wrote:

Called B&K and asked a few questions about the 4007DDS. The fellow
actually had one working nearby apparently and we went through its
paces over the phone. I recall him mumbling something about the
resolution of the frequency control but paid it no mind and went ahead
and ordered one....Big mistake!!!

All the range buttons do is move the decimal point up and down which
would be okay provided frequency control had a coarse option. Instead,
frequency control seems to be via some multiturn rotary optical device
which is good from a "no pot wear perspective" but it takes like 10
revs of the control knob just to change the frequency from say 1KHz to
5KHz. Now I understand what the fellow was saying about
resolution....It's too darn fine!!!

But it doesn't end there...You lose the last frequency and decimal
setting when you turn off the device because it's all digital without
any memory. Also, the waveform selection switches are momentary so you
cannot "lock" the waveform. Long story short....You are returned to a
sinusoidal 1KHz frequency every time you switch on the device. The
workaround for that seems to be to leave it on....What a POS!!!

Finally, I'm yet to figure out how to have the frequency displayed
during sweeps. Maybe this is normal for sweep generators. Whatever,
I'm returning it even if it entails a restocking fee.

What I really want now is a programmable ramp generator and connect it
to the VCG input of my function generator. That way I can sweep up and
hold at the high end or sweep up then down continuously. Sweeping up
then starting over from the low end was never really a preference
anyway. Tried using low frequency 4007DDS triangle output as a RG but
have to keep adjusting the offset every time output level is
adjusted....A PITA.

You need something like this.
http://www.tequipment.net/RigolDG2021A.html

I have a slightly older version that isn't as high in freq but
does basically the same.
These units have USB storage options and so on how ever, you'll
pay some money.

P.S.
That unit you got should of at least been able to retain it's last
set up from power cycle. That's a bad idea in equipment like that..



In YOUR opnion only.


Also, normally you have a function to adjust the freq in digit segment
places. I don't understand why that one does not allow it.



Simple. It wasn't designed to.


You're so enthusiastic, its just making me jump
up and down in joy!.
Click to expand...

Good. Now find an open manhole cover...


--
You can't have a sense of humor, if you have no sense!
 
Phil Hobbs wrote:
Michael A. Terrell wrote:

If you want lab grade, you have to pay for it. Look for a good used
HP 3325B.

They aren't very expensive just now.
Click to expand...

I miss having one on my bench, but everything is out of my budget
until some modifications are completed to make my home more handicapped
accessible. I may never get another chance to do the work. I am
installing a used aluminum ramp and installing an outside door to my
bedroom. Then I have to borrow a cement mixer to widen the 18" wide
sidewalks so I can use a walker or cane without going off the edges. The
used electric power chair I'm rebuilding is too wide for the existing
walkway, as well.

I'll just have to use my TS-382F for now. My HP 331 Distortion
Analyzer was damaged when the shop roof leaked. It ruined the meter
movement and washed all the numbers off the scales. :(


--
You can't have a sense of humor, if you have no sense!
 
If you want lab grade, you have to pay for it. Look for a good used
HP 3325B.
Click to expand...
Well, a run-of-the-mill non-digital function generator (or sweep
function generator) can address all the mentioned issues including a
1:100 frequency range provided the VCG (aka VCF, VCO) input is used.
The somewhat out of the ordinary sweep features can be incorporated
easily using a MCU based ramp generator. We're talking less than $5.00
worth of components and the programming is a piece of cake. However,
if per chance there's a suitable ramp generator out there for less
than $100.00 then I'll bite out of laziness.

Neither want nor need lab grade stuff based on what I'm doing.
Nevertheless, I do get your point which seems to be that lab grade
equipment would more likely have those features, options and
refinements.

On Sep 19, 2:53 pm, "Michael A. Terrell" <mike.terr...@earthlink.net>
wrote:
>
 
oparr@hotmail.com wrote:
Called B&K and asked a few questions about the 4007DDS. The fellow
actually had one working nearby apparently and we went through its
paces over the phone. I recall him mumbling something about the
resolution of the frequency control but paid it no mind and went ahead
and ordered one....Big mistake!!!

All the range buttons do is move the decimal point up and down which
would be okay provided frequency control had a coarse option. Instead,
frequency control seems to be via some multiturn rotary optical device
which is good from a "no pot wear perspective" but it takes like 10
revs of the control knob just to change the frequency from say 1KHz to
5KHz. Now I understand what the fellow was saying about
resolution....It's too darn fine!!!

But it doesn't end there...You lose the last frequency and decimal
setting when you turn off the device because it's all digital without
any memory. Also, the waveform selection switches are momentary so you
cannot "lock" the waveform. Long story short....You are returned to a
sinusoidal 1KHz frequency every time you switch on the device. The
workaround for that seems to be to leave it on....What a POS!!!

Finally, I'm yet to figure out how to have the frequency displayed
during sweeps. Maybe this is normal for sweep generators. Whatever,
I'm returning it even if it entails a restocking fee.

What I really want now is a programmable ramp generator and connect it
to the VCG input of my function generator. That way I can sweep up and
hold at the high end or sweep up then down continuously. Sweeping up
then starting over from the low end was never really a preference
anyway. Tried using low frequency 4007DDS triangle output as a RG but
have to keep adjusting the offset every time output level is
adjusted....A PITA.
"Restocking fee" is really their profit; so they get to make that
Click to expand...
profit when they re-sell it...
..tell them you did NOT agree to a re-stocking fee and that you
demand a full refund under the UCC which says you can do that if the
item is not fit for the purpose for which it was made.
 
On Sat, 19 Sep 2009 14:53:48 -0400, Michael A. Terrell wrote:

If you want lab grade, you have to pay for it. Look for a good used
HP 3325B.
Click to expand...
Only snag is you don't get the full frequency range on all waveforms.

The phase noise is unbelievably low for a synth FG. I had a a hard time
telling the difference between my 3325b and my 8640B at 20MHz.It is
characterized as a "Synthesizer / Function Generator" rather than a
"Synthesized Function Generator", apparently a significant distinction.

I've got a Rohde & Schwartz AFGU that does all waveforms to max frequency.
However the phase noise is cruel compared to the HP.

--
"Electricity is of two kinds, positive and negative. The difference
is, I presume, that one comes a little more expensive, but is more
durable; the other is a cheaper thing, but the moths get into it."
(Stephen Leacock)
 
"oparr@hotmail.com" wrote:
"Restocking fee" is really their profit; so they get to make that
profit when they re-sell it...

It's 20% in this case, almost $80.00, if I purchased the product in
error. All hell is going to break loose if they charge it, since this
note will be attached with the return;

=================================================================
RE: B&K 4007DDS sweep function generator

Before purchasing this product, I even spoke to a B&K technician
regarding its features and operation because the manual is far from
being comprehensive regarding this. However, with all that it was
still impossible to tell that the device is designed in such a way
that the basic functionality one expects in any function generator is
lost.

This product is being returned due to its somewhat dysfunctional
attributes, compared to other similar products, which B&K has
confirmed is by design. Listed below are these attributes (or lack
thereof);

1. There is no coarse frequency control. It takes more than ten
revolutions of the frequency control to go from say a frequency of
1KHz to 5KHz. The range buttons cannot help in such cases. Just about
every function generator encountered, including the one I currently
have, allows for both coarse and fine control.
Click to expand...

WAAAAAAAAA!!!


2. The device is digital but has no memory. You therefore lose all
your relevant settings when the device is switched off. It is
returned to a 1KHz sinusoidal waveform every time the device is
powered. There is no mention of this in the manual and is completely
unacceptable.
Click to expand...

Why? Even if it did store the previous settings, most likely they
would be wrong for the task at hand.


3. The frequency is not displayed while in sweep mode. Instead, all
you see while the device is sweeping is the sweep options. An ill-
conceived design.
Click to expand...

So a fast changing digital frequency display is going to help you?
How?



--
You can't have a sense of humor, if you have no sense!
 
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