Audiophile Deathmatch: Monster Cables vs. a Coat Hanger

http://gizmodo.com/363154/audiophile-deathmatch-monster-cables-vs-a-coat-hanger

Whether or not Monster Cables are worth it is a war that has raged
since home theater immemorial. A poster at Audioholics was put in a
room with five fellow audiophiles, and a Martin Logan SL-3 speaker set
at 75Db at 1000KHz playing a mix of "smooth, trio, easy listening
jazz" that no one had heard before. In one corner, Monster 1000
speaker cables. In the other, four coat hangers twisted and soldered
into a speaker cable.

Seven songs were played while the group was blindfolded and the cables
swapped back and forth. Not only "after 5 tests, none could determine
which was the Monster 1000 cable or the coat hanger wire," but no one
knew a coat hanger was used in the first place.

Further, when music was played through the coat hanger wire, we were
asked if what we heard sounded good to us. All agreed that what was
heard sounded excellent, however, when A-B tests occured, it was
impossible to determine which sounded best the majority of the time
and which wire was in use.

 

[news16]

On Sat, 14 May 2016 09:50:40 +1000, Trevor Wilson wrote:

* This cable:

http://www.altronics.com.au/p/w4920-rg213u-50-ohm-low-loss-coaxial-
cable/

So why is it any better than other 50 ohm co-ax?
I've still got a drum of thinnet 50 ohn.

 

[felix]

On 14-May-2016 7:10 AM, Je�us wrote:

http://gizmodo.com/363154/audiophile-deathmatch-monster-cables-vs-a-coat-hanger

Whether or not Monster Cables are worth it is a war that has raged
since home theater immemorial. A poster at Audioholics was put in a
room with five fellow audiophiles, and a Martin Logan SL-3 speaker set
at 75Db at 1000KHz playing a mix of "smooth, trio, easy listening
jazz" that no one had heard before. In one corner, Monster 1000
speaker cables. In the other, four coat hangers twisted and soldered
into a speaker cable.

Seven songs were played while the group was blindfolded and the cables
swapped back and forth. Not only "after 5 tests, none could determine
which was the Monster 1000 cable or the coat hanger wire," but no one
knew a coat hanger was used in the first place.

Further, when music was played through the coat hanger wire, we were
asked if what we heard sounded good to us. All agreed that what was
heard sounded excellent, however, when A-B tests occured, it was
impossible to determine which sounded best the majority of the time
and which wire was in use.

that's talking about speaker cable. but FYI speaker cables can cause
musical, sound, and tonal variations


--
"As long as there is this book [Koran] there will be no peace in the world"
-William Gladstone, four times PM of Great Britain
http://www.siotw.org/
http://www.australianlibertyalliance.org.au/

 

[Trevor Wilson]

On 14/05/2016 7:10 AM, Je�us wrote:

http://gizmodo.com/363154/audiophile-deathmatch-monster-cables-vs-a-coat-hanger

Whether or not Monster Cables are worth it is a war that has raged
since home theater immemorial. A poster at Audioholics was put in a
room with five fellow audiophiles, and a Martin Logan SL-3 speaker set
at 75Db at 1000KHz playing a mix of "smooth, trio, easy listening
jazz" that no one had heard before. In one corner, Monster 1000
speaker cables. In the other, four coat hangers twisted and soldered
into a speaker cable.

Seven songs were played while the group was blindfolded and the cables
swapped back and forth. Not only "after 5 tests, none could determine
which was the Monster 1000 cable or the coat hanger wire," but no one
knew a coat hanger was used in the first place.

Further, when music was played through the coat hanger wire, we were
asked if what we heard sounded good to us. All agreed that what was
heard sounded excellent, however, when A-B tests occured, it was
impossible to determine which sounded best the majority of the time
and which wire was in use.

**None of which is altogether surprising. For a whole bunch of reasons:

* Monster Cable™ is crap. It is, arguably the worst cable money can buy.

* Monster Cable™ uses the standard 'figure 8' type of configuration,
which exhibits very high inductance and, therefore, high frequency loss
when used in long-ish runs and/or with speakers that exhibit a difficult
HF impedance curve.

* Monster Cable™ uses the very worst possible insulation material (PVC).
This causes losses and allows movement of the conductors under heavy
load conditions, thus exacerbating the problems above.

* Monster Cable™ is vastly more expensive that standard 'figure 8' cable
available from your local electrical wholesaler.

* This cable:

http://www.altronics.com.au/p/w4920-rg213u-50-ohm-low-loss-coaxial-cable/

Is available at competitive prices and offers vastly lower inductance
and employs the far superior PE insulation.

With SL3 speakers, a test using 5 Metre runs of Monster Cable™ compared
to RG213/U would reveal a marked difference between the cables.


--
Trevor Wilson
www.rageaudio.com.au

---
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
https://www.avast.com/antivirus

 

On Sat, 14 May 2016 09:50:40 +1000, Trevor Wilson
<trevor@SPAMBLOCKrageaudio.com.au> wrote:

On 14/05/2016 7:10 AM, Je?us wrote:
http://gizmodo.com/363154/audiophile-deathmatch-monster-cables-vs-a-coat-hanger

Whether or not Monster Cables are worth it is a war that has raged
since home theater immemorial. A poster at Audioholics was put in a
room with five fellow audiophiles, and a Martin Logan SL-3 speaker set
at 75Db at 1000KHz playing a mix of "smooth, trio, easy listening
jazz" that no one had heard before. In one corner, Monster 1000
speaker cables. In the other, four coat hangers twisted and soldered
into a speaker cable.

Seven songs were played while the group was blindfolded and the cables
swapped back and forth. Not only "after 5 tests, none could determine
which was the Monster 1000 cable or the coat hanger wire," but no one
knew a coat hanger was used in the first place.

Further, when music was played through the coat hanger wire, we were
asked if what we heard sounded good to us. All agreed that what was
heard sounded excellent, however, when A-B tests occured, it was
impossible to determine which sounded best the majority of the time
and which wire was in use.


**None of which is altogether surprising. For a whole bunch of reasons:

* Monster Cable™ is crap. It is, arguably the worst cable money can buy.

* Monster Cable™ uses the standard 'figure 8' type of configuration,
which exhibits very high inductance and, therefore, high frequency loss
when used in long-ish runs and/or with speakers that exhibit a difficult
HF impedance curve.

* Monster Cable™ uses the very worst possible insulation material (PVC).
This causes losses and allows movement of the conductors under heavy
load conditions, thus exacerbating the problems above.

* Monster Cable™ is vastly more expensive that standard 'figure 8' cable
available from your local electrical wholesaler.

* This cable:

http://www.altronics.com.au/p/w4920-rg213u-50-ohm-low-loss-coaxial-cable/

Is available at competitive prices and offers vastly lower inductance
and employs the far superior PE insulation.

With SL3 speakers, a test using 5 Metre runs of Monster Cable™ compared
to RG213/U would reveal a marked difference between the cables.

Thanks Trev, I was hoping you would spot this thread.
Agree with you re: RG213/U, you were the one who put me onto that,
BTW.

 

[news16]

On Sat, 14 May 2016 06:43:16 +0000, Jasen Betts wrote:

On 2016-05-14, news16 <news16@woa.com.au> wrote:
On Sat, 14 May 2016 09:50:40 +1000, Trevor Wilson wrote:

* This cable:

http://www.altronics.com.au/p/w4920-rg213u-50-ohm-low-loss-coaxial-
cable/

So why is it any better than other 50 ohm co-ax?
I've still got a drum of thinnet 50 ohm.

13AWG inner, the main spec you want is low DC resistance

I think I'd be better off investing in some decent speakers, but I think
that is another area designed to lighten my wallet.

 

[news16]

On Sat, 14 May 2016 17:46:23 +1000, Jeßus wrote:

On Sat, 14 May 2016 07:35:03 -0000 (UTC), news16 <news16@woa.com.au
wrote:

On Sat, 14 May 2016 06:43:16 +0000, Jasen Betts wrote:

On 2016-05-14, news16 <news16@woa.com.au> wrote:
On Sat, 14 May 2016 09:50:40 +1000, Trevor Wilson wrote:

* This cable:

http://www.altronics.com.au/p/w4920-rg213u-50-ohm-low-loss-coaxial-
cable/

So why is it any better than other 50 ohm co-ax?
I've still got a drum of thinnet 50 ohm.

13AWG inner, the main spec you want is low DC resistance

I think I'd be better off investing in some decent speakers, but I think
that is another area designed to lighten my wallet.

That depends. Do you want a recommendation for some genuinely good value
for money, Australian made speakers?

Yes?

Alternatively, I can recommend some
overpriced shit
These are?

 

<snip>

With SL3 speakers, a test using 5 Metre runs of Monster Cable™ compared
to RG213/U would reveal a marked difference between the cables.

<snip>

OK, I have never bothered to try Monster Cable but I bet that if you did a blind test between RG213 and coat hanger wire, no one would be able to pick it unless the leads were absurdly long, when the higher resistance of the steel wire would come into play.

 

[Jasen Betts]

On 2016-05-14, news16 <news16@woa.com.au> wrote:

On Sat, 14 May 2016 09:50:40 +1000, Trevor Wilson wrote:

* This cable:

http://www.altronics.com.au/p/w4920-rg213u-50-ohm-low-loss-coaxial-
cable/

So why is it any better than other 50 ohm co-ax?
I've still got a drum of thinnet 50 ohm.

13AWG inner, the main spec you want is low DC resistance


--
\_(ツ)_

 

[Trevor Wilson]

On 14/05/2016 11:40 AM, news16 wrote:

On Sat, 14 May 2016 09:50:40 +1000, Trevor Wilson wrote:

* This cable:

http://www.altronics.com.au/p/w4920-rg213u-50-ohm-low-loss-coaxial-
cable/

So why is it any better than other 50 ohm co-ax?
I've still got a drum of thinnet 50 ohn.

**DC resistance is as low as any other thick speaker cable. Normal coax
has a very high resistivity. This is a bad thing for speaker cable.
RG213/U is high power TRANSMISSION coax.

--
Trevor Wilson
www.rageaudio.com.au

---
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
https://www.avast.com/antivirus

 

[felix]

On 14-May-2016 5:35 PM, news16 wrote:

On Sat, 14 May 2016 06:43:16 +0000, Jasen Betts wrote:

On 2016-05-14, news16 <news16@woa.com.au> wrote:
On Sat, 14 May 2016 09:50:40 +1000, Trevor Wilson wrote:

* This cable:

http://www.altronics.com.au/p/w4920-rg213u-50-ohm-low-loss-coaxial-
cable/

So why is it any better than other 50 ohm co-ax?
I've still got a drum of thinnet 50 ohm.
13AWG inner, the main spec you want is low DC resistance
I think I'd be better off investing in some decent speakers, but I think
that is another area designed to lighten my wallet.

you go by what you hear, not by what you're told


--
"As long as there is this book [Koran] there will be no peace in the world"
-William Gladstone, four times PM of Great Britain
http://www.siotw.org/
http://www.australianlibertyalliance.org.au/

 

On Sat, 14 May 2016 07:35:03 -0000 (UTC), news16 <news16@woa.com.au>
wrote:

On Sat, 14 May 2016 06:43:16 +0000, Jasen Betts wrote:

On 2016-05-14, news16 <news16@woa.com.au> wrote:
On Sat, 14 May 2016 09:50:40 +1000, Trevor Wilson wrote:

* This cable:

http://www.altronics.com.au/p/w4920-rg213u-50-ohm-low-loss-coaxial-
cable/

So why is it any better than other 50 ohm co-ax?
I've still got a drum of thinnet 50 ohm.

13AWG inner, the main spec you want is low DC resistance

I think I'd be better off investing in some decent speakers, but I think
that is another area designed to lighten my wallet.

That depends. Do you want a recommendation for some genuinely good
value for money, Australian made speakers? Alternatively, I can
recommend some overpriced shit

 

On Sat, 14 May 2016 07:47:30 -0000 (UTC), news16 <news16@woa.com.au>
wrote:

On Sat, 14 May 2016 17:46:23 +1000, Jeßus wrote:

On Sat, 14 May 2016 07:35:03 -0000 (UTC), news16 <news16@woa.com.au
wrote:

On Sat, 14 May 2016 06:43:16 +0000, Jasen Betts wrote:

On 2016-05-14, news16 <news16@woa.com.au> wrote:
On Sat, 14 May 2016 09:50:40 +1000, Trevor Wilson wrote:

* This cable:

http://www.altronics.com.au/p/w4920-rg213u-50-ohm-low-loss-coaxial-
cable/

So why is it any better than other 50 ohm co-ax?
I've still got a drum of thinnet 50 ohm.

13AWG inner, the main spec you want is low DC resistance

I think I'd be better off investing in some decent speakers, but I think
that is another area designed to lighten my wallet.

That depends. Do you want a recommendation for some genuinely good value
for money, Australian made speakers?

Yes?

Have a look at http://www.adelaidespeakers.com/

I ordered a pair of Summoner 1293SRTLs last year, with a Blackwood
veneer. Edward wasn't happy with the Blackwood veneer he had, so mine
were delayed by two weeks, but that's an indication of how fussy this
guy is. He made a couple of other tweaks as well (I forget the details
now), he's really passionate about his speakers. He'll talk your ear
off about speakers for ages if you give him half a chance

Anyway, you'd be hard pressed to find better value for money anywhere
else.

Alternatively, I can recommend some
overpriced shit
These are?

Too many to list

 

[Phil Allison]

Xeno wrote:

MP3s killed the concept of HiFi. The young grow up with MP3 files
played through crappy earbuds and have no idea what good high fidelity
sound is. By the time they become discerning enough, their crappy
earbuds and excessive volume have stuffed their hearing up so, for them
at least, high fidelity becomes something they will never get to experience.

** Think that analysis is excessively negative.

I grew up in the 1960s, with a transistor radio tucked under my pillow at night listening to AM radio. Decent music - Beatles, Rolling Stones, Jimi Hendrix and The Who for examples.

But the first time I heard an actual live band, at close range, with individual guitar amps & drum kit I was instantly hooked on three dimentional, full
frequency & dynamic range music.

FYI: The group I heard were playing Surf Music hits and later went on to become the famous Melbourne band " The Strangers".

Fact is, we are all exposed to true high fidelity sound all day, every day - even if it ain't musical. When people speak, an animal makes a noise or the wind blows through the trees - that IS hi-fi sound.

Funny thing is, how few realise just how different the usual reproductions are - from TV sets, the cinema or home stereos.

IMO, the cure is exposure to decent live music, with no or minimal PA systems.

Fat chance of that these days.


..... Phil

 

[Trevor]

On 14/05/2016 5:46 PM, Je�us wrote:

I think I'd be better off investing in some decent speakers, but I think
that is another area designed to lighten my wallet.

That depends. Do you want a recommendation for some genuinely good
value for money, Australian made speakers? Alternatively, I can
recommend some overpriced shit

Anybody who thinks they can make a speaker selection for someone else,
without even knowing what type of music they listen to, what room they
listen in, and how loud they like to listen (as well as many other
details) is a moron. Unlike most areas of audio, there ARE huge
differences in actual sound performance between speakers.

And while it is true some expensive speakers are certainly overpriced,
it is also true most cheaper speakers will have *serious* limitations in
some areas, if not many. What is "genuinely good value for money" is as
subjective as the speakers themselves. "Overpriced shit" is a little
easier to determine IF it objectively performs less well than cheaper
options in most performance areas however, so you should start with your
selection there!

And cheap is a very relative term, when it comes to speakers, the
majority of people seem to think even the cheaper end of the market is
expensive, and make do with total garbage. Real HiFi seems to have less
devotees now than ever before.

Trevor.

 

[Jasen Betts]

On 2016-05-14, news16 <news16@woa.com.au> wrote:

On Sat, 14 May 2016 06:43:16 +0000, Jasen Betts wrote:

On 2016-05-14, news16 <news16@woa.com.au> wrote:
On Sat, 14 May 2016 09:50:40 +1000, Trevor Wilson wrote:

* This cable:

http://www.altronics.com.au/p/w4920-rg213u-50-ohm-low-loss-coaxial-
cable/

So why is it any better than other 50 ohm co-ax?
I've still got a drum of thinnet 50 ohm.

13AWG inner, the main spec you want is low DC resistance

I think I'd be better off investing in some decent speakers, but I think
that is another area designed to lighten my wallet.

yeah, I'd not suggest coaxial cable for sepakers, but when asked which
of two was best.



--
\_(ツ)_

 

[Xeno]

On 14/05/2016 6:39 PM, Trevor wrote:

On 14/05/2016 5:46 PM, Je�us wrote:
I think I'd be better off investing in some decent speakers, but I think
that is another area designed to lighten my wallet.

That depends. Do you want a recommendation for some genuinely good
value for money, Australian made speakers? Alternatively, I can
recommend some overpriced shit

Anybody who thinks they can make a speaker selection for someone else,
without even knowing what type of music they listen to, what room they
listen in, and how loud they like to listen (as well as many other
details) is a moron. Unlike most areas of audio, there ARE huge
differences in actual sound performance between speakers.

And while it is true some expensive speakers are certainly overpriced,
it is also true most cheaper speakers will have *serious* limitations in
some areas, if not many. What is "genuinely good value for money" is as
subjective as the speakers themselves. "Overpriced shit" is a little
easier to determine IF it objectively performs less well than cheaper
options in most performance areas however, so you should start with your
selection there!

And cheap is a very relative term, when it comes to speakers, the
majority of people seem to think even the cheaper end of the market is
expensive, and make do with total garbage. Real HiFi seems to have less
devotees now than ever before.

Trevor.

MP3s killed the concept of HiFi. The young grow up with MP3 files
played through crappy earbuds and have no idea what good high fidelity
sound is. By the time they become discerning enough, their crappy
earbuds and excessive volume have stuffed their hearing up so, for them
at least, high fidelity becomes something they will never get to experience.

--

Xeno

First they ignore you,
Then they ridicule you,
Then they fight you,
Then you win.

Mahatma Ghandi

 

[news16]

On Sat, 14 May 2016 01:38:26 -0700, dave.goldfinch wrote:

snip

With SL3 speakers, a test using 5 Metre runs of Monster Cable™ compared
to RG213/U would reveal a marked difference between the cables.

snip

OK, I have never bothered to try Monster Cable but I bet that if you did
a blind test between RG213 and coat hanger wire, no one would be able to
pick it unless the leads were absurdly long, when the higher resistance
of the steel wire would come into play.

Well, one very old test was a lot of country farm lines when farmers were
allowed to provide their own wires and lots used fencing wire.

 

[Clocky]

On 14/05/2016 4:38 PM, dave.goldfinch@gmail.com wrote:

snip

With SL3 speakers, a test using 5 Metre runs of Monster Cable™ compared
to RG213/U would reveal a marked difference between the cables.

snip

OK, I have never bothered to try Monster Cable but I bet that if you did a blind test between RG213 and coat hanger wire, no one would be able to pick it unless the leads were absurdly long, when the higher resistance of the steel wire would come into play.

Yeah and a measurable difference doesn't necessarily equate to an
audible difference either given the frequency response and other
limitations of the human ear.

Results of such a blind trial would be interesting though.

 

[~misfit~]

Once upon a time on usenet Jeßus wrote:

On Sat, 14 May 2016 07:47:30 -0000 (UTC), news16 <news16@woa.com.au
wrote:

On Sat, 14 May 2016 17:46:23 +1000, Jeßus wrote:

On Sat, 14 May 2016 07:35:03 -0000 (UTC), news16 <news16@woa.com.au
wrote:

On Sat, 14 May 2016 06:43:16 +0000, Jasen Betts wrote:

On 2016-05-14, news16 <news16@woa.com.au> wrote:
On Sat, 14 May 2016 09:50:40 +1000, Trevor Wilson wrote:

* This cable:

http://www.altronics.com.au/p/w4920-rg213u-50-ohm-low-loss-coaxial-
cable/

So why is it any better than other 50 ohm co-ax?
I've still got a drum of thinnet 50 ohm.

13AWG inner, the main spec you want is low DC resistance

I think I'd be better off investing in some decent speakers, but I
think that is another area designed to lighten my wallet.

That depends. Do you want a recommendation for some genuinely good
value for money, Australian made speakers?

Yes?

Have a look at http://www.adelaidespeakers.com/

I ordered a pair of Summoner 1293SRTLs last year, with a Blackwood
veneer. Edward wasn't happy with the Blackwood veneer he had, so mine
were delayed by two weeks, but that's an indication of how fussy this
guy is. He made a couple of other tweaks as well (I forget the details
now), he's really passionate about his speakers. He'll talk your ear
off about speakers for ages if you give him half a chance

Anyway, you'd be hard pressed to find better value for money anywhere
else.

They look bloody nice, great value too. I would have liked to see a pic of
the backs on the Summoner page for details of the connectors and T-line exit
(?). Also are they true ribbons or 'planar tweeters'?

Cheers,
--
Shaun.

"Humans will have advanced a long, long way when religious belief has a cozy
little classification in the DSM*."
David Melville (in r.a.s.f1)
(*Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders)