audio DAC

R

RichD

Guest
Have you seen - or listened to - those separate D to A
converters? Do they justify the price? Especially, a
$400 DAC connected to your laptop, playing through
$50 speakers -

Have there been any double blind listening tests of
these critters, or is this another case of the power of
suggestion?

What lab measurements would you make (and
presumably done by the engineers at the companies),
to test their superior performance?

--
Rich
 
"RichD" <r_delaney2001@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:47e3a9dc-f400-451e-9011-b392b647f89e@d26g2000prn.googlegroups.com...
Have you seen - or listened to - those separate D to A
converters? Do they justify the price? Especially, a
$400 DAC connected to your laptop, playing through
$50 speakers -

Have there been any double blind listening tests of
these critters, or is this another case of the power of
suggestion?

What lab measurements would you make (and
presumably done by the engineers at the companies),
to test their superior performance?

--
Rich
Click to expand...
Compared to a laptop motherboard DAC, they are obviously better. Much
better. Extremely better. They don't have to cost $400. I use a Echo Audio
Indigo DJ PCMCIA, much better.

I use headphones. I don't know what you would hear through $50 speakers.

Bob Morein
(310) 237-6511
 
"RichD" <r_delaney2001@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:47e3a9dc-f400-451e-9011-b392b647f89e@d26g2000prn.googlegroups.com...
Have you seen - or listened to - those separate D to A
converters? Do they justify the price? Especially, a
$400 DAC connected to your laptop, playing through
$50 speakers -
Click to expand...
A $50 DAC playing through $400 speakers will sound better every time!

Trevor.
 
"RichD" <r_delaney2001@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:47e3a9dc-f400-451e-9011-b392b647f89e@d26g2000prn.googlegroups.com...
Have you seen - or listened to - those separate D to A
converters? Do they justify the price? Especially, a
$400 DAC connected to your laptop, playing through
$50 speakers -

Have there been any double blind listening tests of
these critters, or is this another case of the power of
suggestion?

What lab measurements would you make (and
presumably done by the engineers at the companies),
to test their superior performance?
Click to expand...
If you have $50 speakers why are you even considering a $400 DAC ?!!!

geoff
 
geoff wrote:
"RichD" <r_delaney2001@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:47e3a9dc-f400-451e-9011-b392b647f89e@d26g2000prn.googlegroups.com...

Have you seen - or listened to - those separate D to A
converters? Do they justify the price? Especially, a
$400 DAC connected to your laptop, playing through
$50 speakers -

Have there been any double blind listening tests of
these critters, or is this another case of the power of
suggestion?

What lab measurements would you make (and
presumably done by the engineers at the companies),
to test their superior performance?


If you have $50 speakers why are you even considering a $400 DAC ?!!!
Click to expand...
Because today is the feast day of Saint Absurdum.

--
+--------------------------------+
+ Dick Pierce |
+ Professional Audio Development |
+--------------------------------+
 
RichD <r_delaney2001@yahoo.com> wrote:
Have you seen - or listened to - those separate D to A
converters? Do they justify the price? Especially, a
$400 DAC connected to your laptop, playing through
$50 speakers -
Click to expand...
Which ones? I have used separate D/A boxes since the mid-eighties.
Mind you, I have never used them through $50 speakers.

Have there been any double blind listening tests of
these critters, or is this another case of the power of
suggestion?
Click to expand...
Which critters? Frankly, listening through $50 speakers it can be hard
to tell the difference between music and noise.

I have done double blind tests for years between D/A units and many of them
sound different. Is different better? Sometimes.

What lab measurements would you make (and
presumably done by the engineers at the companies),
to test their superior performance?
Click to expand...
Superior to what? I'd certainly do all the usual D/A tests, linearity,
clock phase noise rejection, etc.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."
 
On Jun 28, "geoff" <ge...@nospampaf.co.nz> wrote:
Have you seen - or listened  to - those separate D to A
converters?  Do they justify the price?  Especially, a
$400 DAC connected to your laptop, playing through
$50 speakers -

Have there been any double blind listening tests of
these critters, or is this another case of the power of
suggestion?

What lab measurements would you make (and
presumably done by the engineers at the companies),
to test their superior performance?

If you have $50 speakers why are you even considering a
$400 DAC ?!!!
Click to expand...
Some of these DAC are touted for laptop or iPod use.
I guess you can tap directly into the digital stream,
somehow.
 
RichD <r_delaney2001@yahoo.com> wrote:
On Jun 28, klu...@panix.com (Scott Dorsey) wrote:

Which critters? =A0Frankly, listening through $50 speakers it can be hard
to tell the difference between music and noise.

Like this:
http://www.highresolutiontechnologies.com/istreamer/
Click to expand...
This is interesting. It looks like it's really an ipod interface, that
happens to have a DAC in it. The interesting thing about it is that is
provides an ipod interface, not that it has a DAC.

And yes, the DAC in it is probably going to be better than the one in
the ipod, but that's really not saying very much.

In the professional audio world, it is normal for equipment to have
standard AES/EBU or S-PDIF interfaces. Normally you see D/A units
designed with these interfaces, to be plugged into computers or CD
players or DAT machines or what have you.

Typical professional D/A units can be found from Benchmark, Prism,
Grimm, Weiss, Meitner, Apogee, and db technologies, among plenty of
others.

In the nineties when CD playback was very popular in home audio systems,
there were a lot of consumer D/A units made with S-PDIF interfaces for
use with CD players. Some decent ones were made by Emco, Audio Alchemy,
and so forth. These are still usable with modern audio systems.

I have done double blind tests for years between D/A units and
many of them sound different. =A0Is different better? =A0Sometimes.

What methods and controls did you use?
Click to expand...
You name it, I have probably used it at some point on a DAC review.
Most popular is switching between a reference DAC and an unknown, with
one person in the studio and one person in the control room.

I have also done straightwire tests with an analogue tape source going
into an A/D and D/A pair, and the original source compared with the
converted version. The first print review I ever did was doing this
with a PCM F-1 translating source material from a Scully 280. It was a
very enlightening test. It's hard to find something that sounds worse
than a Scully 280, but Sony managed it.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."
 
On Jun 28, klu...@panix.com (Scott Dorsey) wrote:
Have you seen - or listened  to - those separate D to A
converters?  Do they justify the price?  Especially, a
$400 DAC connected to your laptop, playing through
$50 speakers -

Which ones?  I have used separate D/A boxes since the mid-eighties.  
Mind you, I have never used them through $50 speakers.

Have there been any double blind listening tests of
these critters, or is this another case of the power of
suggestion?

Which critters?  Frankly, listening through $50 speakers it can be hard
to tell the difference between music and noise.
Click to expand...
Like this:
http://www.highresolutiontechnologies.com/istreamer/

I have done double blind tests for years between D/A units and
many of them sound different.  Is different better?  Sometimes.
Click to expand...
What methods and controls did you use?

--
Rich
 
Scott Dorsey wrote:
RichD<r_delaney2001@yahoo.com> wrote:
On Jun 28, klu...@panix.com (Scott Dorsey) wrote:

Which critters? =A0Frankly, listening through $50 speakers it can be hard
to tell the difference between music and noise.

Like this:
http://www.highresolutiontechnologies.com/istreamer/

This is interesting. It looks like it's really an ipod interface, that
happens to have a DAC in it. The interesting thing about it is that is
provides an ipod interface, not that it has a DAC.

And yes, the DAC in it is probably going to be better than the one in
the ipod, but that's really not saying very much.
Click to expand...

Dunno - the DAC in my daughter's iPhone was pretty good.

In the professional audio world, it is normal for equipment to have
standard AES/EBU or S-PDIF interfaces. Normally you see D/A units
designed with these interfaces, to be plugged into computers or CD
players or DAT machines or what have you.

Typical professional D/A units can be found from Benchmark, Prism,
Grimm, Weiss, Meitner, Apogee, and db technologies, among plenty of
others.

In the nineties when CD playback was very popular in home audio systems,
there were a lot of consumer D/A units made with S-PDIF interfaces for
use with CD players. Some decent ones were made by Emco, Audio Alchemy,
and so forth. These are still usable with modern audio systems.

I have done double blind tests for years between D/A units and
many of them sound different. =A0Is different better? =A0Sometimes.

What methods and controls did you use?

You name it, I have probably used it at some point on a DAC review.
Most popular is switching between a reference DAC and an unknown, with
one person in the studio and one person in the control room.

I have also done straightwire tests with an analogue tape source going
into an A/D and D/A pair, and the original source compared with the
converted version. The first print review I ever did was doing this
with a PCM F-1 translating source material from a Scully 280. It was a
very enlightening test. It's hard to find something that sounds worse
than a Scully 280, but Sony managed it.
--scott
Click to expand...
--
Les Cargill
 
On 28/06/2011 02:15, RichD wrote:
Have you seen - or listened to - those separate D to A
converters? Do they justify the price? Especially, a
$400 DAC connected to your laptop, playing through
$50 speakers -

Have there been any double blind listening tests of
these critters, or is this another case of the power of
suggestion?

What lab measurements would you make (and
presumably done by the engineers at the companies),
to test their superior performance?

--
Rich

I bought a Lindy SPDIF DAC for approx Ł40 if I remember correctly via
Click to expand...
Amazon. It plays via B&W DM330 speakers. I haven't done any testing as
such except that my aged ears find the sound superb in comparison with
the TV speakers which are crap. There are a few customer reviews on
Amazon UK.
Hope this helps.
Don
 
On Sun, 10 Jul 2011 08:57:29 +0100, Donwill
<Donwill.seesig@invalid.invalid> wrote:

On 28/06/2011 02:15, RichD wrote:
Have you seen - or listened to - those separate D to A
converters? Do they justify the price? Especially, a
$400 DAC connected to your laptop, playing through
$50 speakers -

Have there been any double blind listening tests of
these critters, or is this another case of the power of
suggestion?

What lab measurements would you make (and
presumably done by the engineers at the companies),
to test their superior performance?

--
Rich

I bought a Lindy SPDIF DAC for approx Ł40 if I remember correctly via
Amazon. It plays via B&W DM330 speakers. I haven't done any testing as
such except that my aged ears find the sound superb in comparison with
the TV speakers which are crap. There are a few customer reviews on
Amazon UK.
Hope this helps.
Don
Click to expand...
I imagine the difference you hear is 99.99% down to the speakers, and
maybe 0.01% the DAC. I'm probably being overly generous to the DAC,
actually.

d
 
RichD" <r_delaney2001@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:588f4f67-e8dd-405a-a2d6-57133e0bf6ae@h38g2000pro.googlegroups.com...
On Jun 28, klu...@panix.com (Scott Dorsey) wrote:


I have done double blind tests for years between D/A units and
many of them sound different. Is different better? Sometimes.

What methods and controls did you use?
Click to expand...
Good question. If you get a meaningful answer, then the above claim has some
credibility. If you essentially get put off, then you might consider moving
on.

Lots of people have done actual level-matched, time-synched, DBTs of DACs
designed and built, and that have reasonable pretentions of quality, and
have often had a great deal of difficulty finding reliably audible
differences, perhaps starting with this one:

Masters, Ian G. and Clark, D. L., "Do All CD Players Sound the Same?",
Stereo Review, pp.50-57 (January 1986)

It should be noted that these tests involved mass-market digital players
from reputable manufacturers. It is quite possible that prior to 1986 DACs
that sounded different were more prevalent, or that limited-availability
DACs that were less highly engineered caused audible differences. For
example, the article itself found minor audible differences that were
probably due to its DAC in a product that was introduced in 1982-3.

By 2010 many situations where audible differences between DACs whose price
and reputation varied considerably were difficult or impossible to find had
been documented. You can find evidence of this at:

http://www.ethanwiner.com/aes/
 
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