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Keegan Major
Guest
bitrex <user@example.net> wrote:
You have obviously never watched a woman do dishes by hand in a sink.
Here\'s how that goes:
1) Turn water faucet on full (as in maximum flow)
2) Proceed with washing each item (for your example five dishes, at 30
sec/dish, then 2.5 minutes is expended in washing dishes)
3) Only at end of step 2, after completing every dish, does the water
faucet get turned back off (i.e., it has been running continiously
during the entire 2.5 minutes, whether the water squirting out was
being used, or simply going straight down the drain)
Result, assuming a \'standard\' flow rate US faucet, is 2.5min X 2.2
gal/min for 5.5 gal of water consumed to wash five dishes. Even more
if there are more dishes to wash.
Nope, and the faucet does not need to be \"on\" the entire time, but it
seems that is the \'method\' (faucet running the entire time) that many
use for hand dish washing. And it is the \"fully flowing faucet\" that
generates the wasted water vs. a dish washer\'s fixed fill amount.
On 10/4/2021 7:03 PM, Lasse Langwadt Christensen wrote:
tirsdag den 5. oktober 2021 kl. 00.38.00 UTC+2 skrev gnuarm.del...@gmail.com:
On Monday, October 4, 2021 at 5:39:06 PM UTC-4, lang...@fonz.dk wrote:
mandag den 4. oktober 2021 kl. 23.22.19 UTC+2 skrev gnuarm.del...@gmail.com:
On Monday, October 4, 2021 at 1:33:34 PM UTC-4, lang...@fonz.dk wrote:
but it saves water and things get cleaner ..
It saves how much water...? You can only save what is being used
by hand washing which isn\'t much for five plates and some silver.
If hand washing gets them clean, how can the washer get them
\"cleaner\"? Is this like a volume control that goes to 11?
do you have a dishwasher? try it
Try what? How do I measure the water the dishwasher uses???
afaik it is required to use less than 5 gallons, EnergyStar ~3
gallons those who tried it came to the conclusion that doing the
same load by hand take 5-10 times as much
and the water is hotter and the detergent more effective so the
dishes get cleaner
We\'re not talking about doing 50 dishes we\'re doing five! How could
I use 15-30 gallons of water washing five dishes and some associated
flatware.
You have obviously never watched a woman do dishes by hand in a sink.
Here\'s how that goes:
1) Turn water faucet on full (as in maximum flow)
2) Proceed with washing each item (for your example five dishes, at 30
sec/dish, then 2.5 minutes is expended in washing dishes)
3) Only at end of step 2, after completing every dish, does the water
faucet get turned back off (i.e., it has been running continiously
during the entire 2.5 minutes, whether the water squirting out was
being used, or simply going straight down the drain)
Result, assuming a \'standard\' flow rate US faucet, is 2.5min X 2.2
gal/min for 5.5 gal of water consumed to wash five dishes. Even more
if there are more dishes to wash.
The detergent and elbow-grease does the bulk of the work you don\'t
need to fill the whole fuckin\' sink up for five dishes and five set
forks spoons and knives, and let them sit in the tub of shit-ass
dirty water while you \"clean\" them, damn.
Nope, and the faucet does not need to be \"on\" the entire time, but it
seems that is the \'method\' (faucet running the entire time) that many
use for hand dish washing. And it is the \"fully flowing faucet\" that
generates the wasted water vs. a dish washer\'s fixed fill amount.
D
Don Y
Guest
On 11/6/2021 3:55 PM, Michael Terrell wrote:
Yeah, apologies but Florida is ... \"odd\". OK place to visit, but (you know the
rest :> )
I\'ve a friend, here, who buys up every piece of old Sun kit that he
can find. His employer\'s business runs on Sun hardware/software so
the employer keeps thinking that he can avoid the inevitable
retrofit by buying up old it. Sooner or later, he\'ll discover
the old kit is TOO old and too costly to repair!
Most of the places I\'ve worked with refurbish newer models (no real
\"repair\" as there are enough working new ones that you can afford
to just scrap the old or broken ones). So, the \"free labor\" usually
comes in the form of disabled or \"challenged\" individuals who use it
as either a social event *or* to instill structure into their lives.
As the goal isn\'t to recover usable it, you\'re not too concerned if
someone *breaks* a PCB in the attempt to remove it from a machine.
Ouch! Can you have a set of resistive pedals mounted high so you can
try to use those larger muscle groups even while reclined? Or, does
that irritate (further open) the wound?
I was laid up for a while many years ago. I was alarmed at how quickly
it affected my body/musculature to not be engaged in the normal activities
to which I\'d been accustomed. \"Use it or lose it\" is such a truism!
And, as you get older, there are consequences to \"losing it\"!
Good luck!
I\'m working to help a friend start up another one, here. There are *so*
many surplus laptops and computers available that it becomes a challenge
to find ways of *using* them -- effectively.
This was the original choice for Disney in Florida, and they were told
to go away, so they went to Orlando.
Ooops!
Actually, it was a good thing. If they had been built here, we would have
been stuck between more amusement parks and \'The Villages\' The amusement
parks turned Orlando into a real mess.
Yeah, apologies but Florida is ... \"odd\". OK place to visit, but (you know the
rest :> )
Another closed a few years ago. They were still using wide carriage OKI
Dot Matrix printers and Win 95
Christ! \"Third world\"?
They were bought and sold several times by \'Investors\' who only took money
out of the business rather than invest. The Dot Matrix printers were needed
because they used four ply NCR forms because they catered to contractors.
The software was so old that it couldn\'t drive a laser printer, or even keep
electronic records for accounting.
I\'ve a friend, here, who buys up every piece of old Sun kit that he
can find. His employer\'s business runs on Sun hardware/software so
the employer keeps thinking that he can avoid the inevitable
retrofit by buying up old it. Sooner or later, he\'ll discover
the old kit is TOO old and too costly to repair!
Sorry I can\'t think of any other avenues that you can pursue. But, it
seems like they\'re likely going to be closed to you.
I\'m to the point that I\'m just looking for computers to donate to a local
Vets Helping Vets\' where they refurbish systms to give away. They have
volunteers who trade time for learning how to repair computers.
Most of the places I\'ve worked with refurbish newer models (no real
\"repair\" as there are enough working new ones that you can afford
to just scrap the old or broken ones). So, the \"free labor\" usually
comes in the form of disabled or \"challenged\" individuals who use it
as either a social event *or* to instill structure into their lives.
As the goal isn\'t to recover usable it, you\'re not too concerned if
someone *breaks* a PCB in the attempt to remove it from a machine.
Every place I\'ve lived has had a large recycling market -- usually not
very visible to the public, at large -- essential to handling the high
volume of stuff that gets discarded \"routinely\" (\"Time for our 18-36 month
upgrade cycle...\"). It\'s just a matter of \"tuning in\" to it.
I have floor to ceiling industrial shelving (1000 lbs per shelf) lining
both sides of my garage. I spent $35 for the lot. Else, it would have been
scrapped -- melted down (at some cost of energy) and recycled.
I\'ve refurbished several power chairs and electric wheelchairs. A few of
those little motorized \"skateboards\" (?). Countless pieces of
home-healthcare kit. \"Stereos\", electric organs, etc. The range of items
that we\'ve received -- and RETURNED to use in the community -- is
alarming.
And we won\'t accept MANY of the things that folks discard still in
salvageable condition!
I\'m to the point that I don\'t have the energy to haul truckloads of
equipment around. I am currently modifying a pile of video D/A from 75 to 50
ohm to use to distribute 10MHz reference signals. Their -3dB point is around
350 MHz. They may be my last project before I start selling off my test
equipment and spare parts. The open wound on my left leg still hasn\'t
healed, in over a year of being treated. I have to spend so much time with
my legs propped above my head that it has cost me a lot of muscle mass.
Ouch! Can you have a set of resistive pedals mounted high so you can
try to use those larger muscle groups even while reclined? Or, does
that irritate (further open) the wound?
I was laid up for a while many years ago. I was alarmed at how quickly
it affected my body/musculature to not be engaged in the normal activities
to which I\'d been accustomed. \"Use it or lose it\" is such a truism!
And, as you get older, there are consequences to \"losing it\"!
Good luck!
R
Rob
Guest
Keegan Major <keegan.major@hotmail.com> wrote:
I wash my dishes that way, and I can assure you that I do not spend
nearly near 30 seconds per item. That is a long time!
I normally put everything I have used during that meal in the sink,
then start picking up items and cleaning them under the water flow using
a sponge. By the time I have picked up and cleaned half of the items,
the water flowing down over the other items in the sink has already
partly cleaned those, so the last items are even quicker to clean than
the first ones.
Using maximum flow is not very productive, it just makes a bigger mess.
We\'re not talking about doing 50 dishes we\'re doing five! How could
I use 15-30 gallons of water washing five dishes and some associated
flatware.
You have obviously never watched a woman do dishes by hand in a sink.
Here\'s how that goes:
1) Turn water faucet on full (as in maximum flow)
2) Proceed with washing each item (for your example five dishes, at 30
sec/dish, then 2.5 minutes is expended in washing dishes)
3) Only at end of step 2, after completing every dish, does the water
faucet get turned back off (i.e., it has been running continiously
during the entire 2.5 minutes, whether the water squirting out was
being used, or simply going straight down the drain)
Result, assuming a \'standard\' flow rate US faucet, is 2.5min X 2.2
gal/min for 5.5 gal of water consumed to wash five dishes. Even more
if there are more dishes to wash.
I wash my dishes that way, and I can assure you that I do not spend
nearly near 30 seconds per item. That is a long time!
I normally put everything I have used during that meal in the sink,
then start picking up items and cleaning them under the water flow using
a sponge. By the time I have picked up and cleaned half of the items,
the water flowing down over the other items in the sink has already
partly cleaned those, so the last items are even quicker to clean than
the first ones.
Using maximum flow is not very productive, it just makes a bigger mess.
S
server
Guest
Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> wrote in
news:snho7g$ve$1@dont-email.me:
You lose weight because your body begine to consume itself.
Not the best diet method.
coming!
But by the same token, I start getting hair where I don\'t want it
and losing it in places I want to keep it.
Psoriasis sucks, big time. My body is giving up on me before I
want it to. I was supposed to break a record and live to be 140!
> Good luck!
news:snho7g$ve$1@dont-email.me:
On 11/6/2021 3:55 PM, Michael Terrell wrote:
I\'m working to help a friend start up another one, here. There
are *so* many surplus laptops and computers available that it
becomes a challenge to find ways of *using* them -- effectively.
This was the original choice for Disney in Florida, and they
were told to go away, so they went to Orlando.
Ooops!
Actually, it was a good thing. If they had been built here, we
would have been stuck between more amusement parks and \'The
Villages\' The amusement parks turned Orlando into a real mess.
Yeah, apologies but Florida is ... \"odd\". OK place to visit, but
(you know the rest :> )
Another closed a few years ago. They were still using wide
carriage OKI Dot Matrix printers and Win 95
Christ! \"Third world\"?
They were bought and sold several times by \'Investors\' who only
took money out of the business rather than invest. The Dot Matrix
printers were needed because they used four ply NCR forms because
they catered to contractors. The software was so old that it
couldn\'t drive a laser printer, or even keep electronic records
for accounting.
I\'ve a friend, here, who buys up every piece of old Sun kit that
he can find. His employer\'s business runs on Sun
hardware/software so the employer keeps thinking that he can avoid
the inevitable retrofit by buying up old it. Sooner or later,
he\'ll discover the old kit is TOO old and too costly to repair!
Sorry I can\'t think of any other avenues that you can pursue.
But, it seems like they\'re likely going to be closed to you.
I\'m to the point that I\'m just looking for computers to donate to
a local Vets Helping Vets\' where they refurbish systms to give
away. They have volunteers who trade time for learning how to
repair computers.
Most of the places I\'ve worked with refurbish newer models (no
real \"repair\" as there are enough working new ones that you can
afford to just scrap the old or broken ones). So, the \"free
labor\" usually comes in the form of disabled or \"challenged\"
individuals who use it as either a social event *or* to instill
structure into their lives.
As the goal isn\'t to recover usable it, you\'re not too concerned
if someone *breaks* a PCB in the attempt to remove it from a
machine.
Every place I\'ve lived has had a large recycling market --
usually not very visible to the public, at large -- essential to
handling the high volume of stuff that gets discarded
\"routinely\" (\"Time for our 18-36 month upgrade cycle...\"). It\'s
just a matter of \"tuning in\" to it.
I have floor to ceiling industrial shelving (1000 lbs per shelf)
lining both sides of my garage. I spent $35 for the lot. Else,
it would have been scrapped -- melted down (at some cost of
energy) and recycled.
I\'ve refurbished several power chairs and electric wheelchairs.
A few of those little motorized \"skateboards\" (?). Countless
pieces of home-healthcare kit. \"Stereos\", electric organs, etc.
The range of items that we\'ve received -- and RETURNED to use in
the community -- is alarming.
And we won\'t accept MANY of the things that folks discard still
in salvageable condition!
I\'m to the point that I don\'t have the energy to haul truckloads
of equipment around. I am currently modifying a pile of video D/A
from 75 to 50 ohm to use to distribute 10MHz reference signals.
Their -3dB point is around 350 MHz. They may be my last project
before I start selling off my test equipment and spare parts. The
open wound on my left leg still hasn\'t healed, in over a year of
being treated. I have to spend so much time with my legs propped
above my head that it has cost me a lot of muscle mass.
Ouch! Can you have a set of resistive pedals mounted high so you
can try to use those larger muscle groups even while reclined?
Or, does that irritate (further open) the wound?
I was laid up for a while many years ago. I was alarmed at how
quickly it affected my body/musculature to not be engaged in the
normal activities to which I\'d been accustomed. \"Use it or lose
it\" is such a truism!
You lose weight because your body begine to consume itself.
Not the best diet method.
I hate that. Shtuff stops working and there is no replacementAnd, as you get older, there are consequences to \"losing it\"!
coming!
But by the same token, I start getting hair where I don\'t want it
and losing it in places I want to keep it.
Psoriasis sucks, big time. My body is giving up on me before I
want it to. I was supposed to break a record and live to be 140!
> Good luck!
D
Don Y
Guest
On 11/22/2021 1:31 PM, Keegan Major wrote:
Why would you do that? It only makes it harder to hold the item
*in* the water stream and likely splashes water around to places
that you\'d prefer to keep dry! Esp if you\'ve got most of the
dirty dishes/pan/pots in the sink!
We have YET to use the dishwasher we bought ~10 years ago!
With just two of us, here, all the plates, pots and pans needed
to make (and consume) a meal can be washed in far less time
than it would take to load them into the dishwasher and retrieve
them, once done.
And, they\'d *sit* in the dishwasher for days (making it even harder for
the dishwasher to scrub them clean) until we had even a PARTIAL load
to justify the electricity and inconvenience to run it.
[E.g., I just washed this evening\'s pots/pans/dishes/flatware.
So, I can *use* all of those items later on, tonight, when I
want to make a snack. No need to have an \"extra\" wok around
because the first one is in the dishwasher!]
We place the pots/pans that were used to prepare a meal into the
sink as soon as the foodstuffs have been plated. Anything that
has residues that might dry and cling to the surfaces or sticky
(e.g., rice) gets a quick rinse (to knock everything off the sides
and into the bottom of the pan/pot). A bit of water is added to
keep things hydrated.
[Amusingly, Rice Krispies cling to the sides of a pot as if
superglued there!]
If a LOT of water is required, then we throw any utensils and smaller
items into the pot while it soaks.
By the time the meal is done, all we have to do is drag a sponge
over any residue in the pots/pans and rinse the soap out. The
soapy water is then dumped into the next pot/pan.
Repeat for the plates.
The sponge is then rinsed and microwaved (boiling the clean water
contained within it to help kill off anything that wants to \"grow\")
I suspect most folks run water at closer to 1-1.5 GPM. And, folks
with flow restrictors on their faucets may find that a stretch.
You can buy faucets with PIr sensors that \"watch\" for your
hands to gate the waterflow. I had rescued some \"foot pedals\"
from a dentist\'s office (to control hot/cold water without
\"contaminating\" his hands) but have decided the electronic
solution is cleaner: set water temperature and flow rate; let
PIr sensor turn water on/off instead of having to \"stand on
your heels\" to operate foot pedals.
My \"worst case\" water waste comes when I make red sauce. I buy the
tomatoes in #10 cans (105 oz?). Rinsing them out takes a fair bit of
water, owing to the surface area involved. Ditto with the Tomato
Paste cans (really thick, sticky stuff in small/narrow cans).
But, I dump the (dirty) water from one cleaned can into the next
so I only \"lose\" (spill) a little from each can. And, do the tinier
\"paste\" cans last (after laving them to soak in one of the larger
cans) so I have more than enough (dirty) water for their needs.
[I question whether or not the water costs justify the value of
recycling the cans. But, soiled cans would attract insects in
the week or two that they\'d sit out in the recycling container, in
the heat of the day! And, just discarding them is wasteful.]
We\'re not talking about doing 50 dishes we\'re doing five! How could
I use 15-30 gallons of water washing five dishes and some associated
flatware.
You have obviously never watched a woman do dishes by hand in a sink.
Here\'s how that goes:
1) Turn water faucet on full (as in maximum flow)
Why would you do that? It only makes it harder to hold the item
*in* the water stream and likely splashes water around to places
that you\'d prefer to keep dry! Esp if you\'ve got most of the
dirty dishes/pan/pots in the sink!
2) Proceed with washing each item (for your example five dishes, at 30
sec/dish, then 2.5 minutes is expended in washing dishes)
We have YET to use the dishwasher we bought ~10 years ago!
With just two of us, here, all the plates, pots and pans needed
to make (and consume) a meal can be washed in far less time
than it would take to load them into the dishwasher and retrieve
them, once done.
And, they\'d *sit* in the dishwasher for days (making it even harder for
the dishwasher to scrub them clean) until we had even a PARTIAL load
to justify the electricity and inconvenience to run it.
[E.g., I just washed this evening\'s pots/pans/dishes/flatware.
So, I can *use* all of those items later on, tonight, when I
want to make a snack. No need to have an \"extra\" wok around
because the first one is in the dishwasher!]
3) Only at end of step 2, after completing every dish, does the water
faucet get turned back off (i.e., it has been running continiously
during the entire 2.5 minutes, whether the water squirting out was
being used, or simply going straight down the drain)
We place the pots/pans that were used to prepare a meal into the
sink as soon as the foodstuffs have been plated. Anything that
has residues that might dry and cling to the surfaces or sticky
(e.g., rice) gets a quick rinse (to knock everything off the sides
and into the bottom of the pan/pot). A bit of water is added to
keep things hydrated.
[Amusingly, Rice Krispies cling to the sides of a pot as if
superglued there!]
If a LOT of water is required, then we throw any utensils and smaller
items into the pot while it soaks.
By the time the meal is done, all we have to do is drag a sponge
over any residue in the pots/pans and rinse the soap out. The
soapy water is then dumped into the next pot/pan.
Repeat for the plates.
The sponge is then rinsed and microwaved (boiling the clean water
contained within it to help kill off anything that wants to \"grow\")
Result, assuming a \'standard\' flow rate US faucet, is 2.5min X 2.2
gal/min for 5.5 gal of water consumed to wash five dishes. Even more
if there are more dishes to wash.
I suspect most folks run water at closer to 1-1.5 GPM. And, folks
with flow restrictors on their faucets may find that a stretch.
You can buy faucets with PIr sensors that \"watch\" for your
hands to gate the waterflow. I had rescued some \"foot pedals\"
from a dentist\'s office (to control hot/cold water without
\"contaminating\" his hands) but have decided the electronic
solution is cleaner: set water temperature and flow rate; let
PIr sensor turn water on/off instead of having to \"stand on
your heels\" to operate foot pedals.
The detergent and elbow-grease does the bulk of the work you don\'t
need to fill the whole fuckin\' sink up for five dishes and five set
forks spoons and knives, and let them sit in the tub of shit-ass
dirty water while you \"clean\" them, damn.
Nope, and the faucet does not need to be \"on\" the entire time, but it
seems that is the \'method\' (faucet running the entire time) that many
use for hand dish washing. And it is the \"fully flowing faucet\" that
generates the wasted water vs. a dish washer\'s fixed fill amount.
My \"worst case\" water waste comes when I make red sauce. I buy the
tomatoes in #10 cans (105 oz?). Rinsing them out takes a fair bit of
water, owing to the surface area involved. Ditto with the Tomato
Paste cans (really thick, sticky stuff in small/narrow cans).
But, I dump the (dirty) water from one cleaned can into the next
so I only \"lose\" (spill) a little from each can. And, do the tinier
\"paste\" cans last (after laving them to soak in one of the larger
cans) so I have more than enough (dirty) water for their needs.
[I question whether or not the water costs justify the value of
recycling the cans. But, soiled cans would attract insects in
the week or two that they\'d sit out in the recycling container, in
the heat of the day! And, just discarding them is wasteful.]
D
Don Y
Guest
On 11/28/2021 2:19 PM, Don Y wrote:
I had occasion to measure our kitchen flow rate, today.
(I was curious and needed to get an inch of standing water in
the sink to soak the cooling racks)
Eight cups in 30 seconds (on \"max\") so that\'s exactly 1GPM.
Neither of us have ever complained that it is \"too slow\"
so I can\'t see a need for anything faster!
[I suspect that wouldn\'t be fast enough in the *shower* but
I\'ve not checked that...]
On 11/22/2021 1:31 PM, Keegan Major wrote:
Result, assuming a \'standard\' flow rate US faucet, is 2.5min X 2.2
gal/min for 5.5 gal of water consumed to wash five dishes. Even more
if there are more dishes to wash.
I suspect most folks run water at closer to 1-1.5 GPM. And, folks
with flow restrictors on their faucets may find that a stretch.
I had occasion to measure our kitchen flow rate, today.
(I was curious and needed to get an inch of standing water in
the sink to soak the cooling racks)
Eight cups in 30 seconds (on \"max\") so that\'s exactly 1GPM.
Neither of us have ever complained that it is \"too slow\"
so I can\'t see a need for anything faster!
[I suspect that wouldn\'t be fast enough in the *shower* but
I\'ve not checked that...]