Anyone got a Maha MH-C9000 Wizard One Battery Charger?

[Brian Gregory [UK]]

I'm disappointed with mine.

For one thing it can't even correctly multiply the current by the time to
get the number of mAH.

The number of mAH is consistently about 10% below what it should be (both
for charging and for discharging).

e.g. 501mA for 66mins it says = 503mAH !!

--

Brian Gregory. (In the UK)
ng@bgdsv.co.uk
To email me remove the letter vee.

 

[Brian Morrison]

On Sat, 11 Sep 2010 01:22:45 +0100
"Brian Gregory [UK]" <ng@bgdsv.co.uk> wrote:

I'm disappointed with mine.

For one thing it can't even correctly multiply the current by the
time to get the number of mAH.

I'll have to check mine...

The number of mAH is consistently about 10% below what it should be
(both for charging and for discharging).

e.g. 501mA for 66mins it says = 503mAH !!

.... but I have to say that my reason for buying it was to allow me to
resurrect some batteries that have been run flat to the point of being
unable to charge in my other chargers. So far the C9000 seems to be
able to sort out 3 out of 5 that I've tried, with another 3 to go.

--

Brian Morrison

 

[Brian Morrison]

On Sat, 11 Sep 2010 01:22:45 +0100
"Brian Gregory [UK]" <ng@bgdsv.co.uk> wrote:

The number of mAH is consistently about 10% below what it should be (both
for charging and for discharging).

I suspect that this includes the charging efficiency, so it is the
capacity that you can extract from the cell after charging is complete.

--

Brian Morrison

"I am not young enough to know everything"
Oscar Wilde

 

[Brian Gregory [UK]]

"Brian Morrison" <bdm@fenrir.org.uk> wrote in message
news:20100913211609.563e7350@peterson.fenrir.org.uk...

On Sat, 11 Sep 2010 01:22:45 +0100
"Brian Gregory [UK]" <ng@bgdsv.co.uk> wrote:

The number of mAH is consistently about 10% below what it should be (both
for charging and for discharging).

I suspect that this includes the charging efficiency, so it is the
capacity that you can extract from the cell after charging is complete.

But it does it when discharging too.

And the instruction leaflet mentions that the capacity figures are expected
to exceed the actual capacity by 20-30% when charging.

--

Brian Gregory. (In the UK)
ng@bgdsv.co.uk
To email me remove the letter vee.

 

[Brian Morrison]

On Tue, 14 Sep 2010 13:26:06 +0100
"Brian Gregory [UK]" <ng@bgdsv.co.uk> wrote:

"Brian Morrison" <bdm@fenrir.org.uk> wrote in message
news:20100913211609.563e7350@peterson.fenrir.org.uk...
On Sat, 11 Sep 2010 01:22:45 +0100
"Brian Gregory [UK]" <ng@bgdsv.co.uk> wrote:

The number of mAH is consistently about 10% below what it should
be (both for charging and for discharging).

I suspect that this includes the charging efficiency, so it is the
capacity that you can extract from the cell after charging is
complete.

But it does it when discharging too.

And the instruction leaflet mentions that the capacity figures are
expected to exceed the actual capacity by 20-30% when charging.

I used the break-in mode on some batteries, and when the process was
finished the cell capacity showing was about 15% of the marked
capacity. Now, I'll grant that these batteries might not be usable any
more, but that seemed a long way out from what I expected. I shall have
to see if they're usable and see what happens after a cycle.

You could enquire of their tech support people as to what's going on....

--

Brian Morrison

 

[Jon]

I got one of these

http://www.batterylogic.co.uk/technoline/technoline-i-charger.asp

very good but if the battery is dead it needs jumpstarting first before it
will attempt to charge it.
--
Jon



"Brian Morrison" <bdm@fenrir.org.uk> wrote in message
news:20100914142830.00006602@surtees.fenrir.org.uk...

On Tue, 14 Sep 2010 13:26:06 +0100
"Brian Gregory [UK]" <ng@bgdsv.co.uk> wrote:

"Brian Morrison" <bdm@fenrir.org.uk> wrote in message
news:20100913211609.563e7350@peterson.fenrir.org.uk...
On Sat, 11 Sep 2010 01:22:45 +0100
"Brian Gregory [UK]" <ng@bgdsv.co.uk> wrote:

The number of mAH is consistently about 10% below what it should
be (both for charging and for discharging).

I suspect that this includes the charging efficiency, so it is the
capacity that you can extract from the cell after charging is
complete.

But it does it when discharging too.

And the instruction leaflet mentions that the capacity figures are
expected to exceed the actual capacity by 20-30% when charging.


I used the break-in mode on some batteries, and when the process was
finished the cell capacity showing was about 15% of the marked
capacity. Now, I'll grant that these batteries might not be usable any
more, but that seemed a long way out from what I expected. I shall have
to see if they're usable and see what happens after a cycle.

You could enquire of their tech support people as to what's going on....

--

Brian Morrison

 

[Brian Morrison]

On Tue, 14 Sep 2010 20:03:22 +0100
"Jon" <nospam@ntlwurld.com> wrote:

very good but if the battery is dead it needs jumpstarting first before it
will attempt to charge it.

Yes, the break-in mode on the C9000 is supposed to help recover sick
batteries. So far the jury is out, I think the cells I'm testing are a
bit high on internal resistance so I'm going to disharge them, cycle
them and then recharge.

--

Brian Morrison

"I am not young enough to know everything"
Oscar Wilde

 

[Ian Jackson]

In message <20100914222728.1cb116d5@peterson.fenrir.org.uk>, Brian
Morrison <bdm@fenrir.org.uk> writes

On Tue, 14 Sep 2010 20:03:22 +0100
"Jon" <nospam@ntlwurld.com> wrote:

very good but if the battery is dead it needs jumpstarting first before it
will attempt to charge it.

Yes, the break-in mode on the C9000 is supposed to help recover sick
batteries. So far the jury is out, I think the cells I'm testing are a
bit high on internal resistance so I'm going to disharge them, cycle
them and then recharge.

I have often recovered whiskered-up S/C nicads and equally S/C NiMH

batteries by zapping them with a 12V battery charger. I've got a
home-made one which will deliver 20A. Apply for a second or two seconds
to the dead battery (single cell, correct polarity). With luck, the S/C
has gone, and the battery reads 1.3V. Obviously great care should be
taken, as there is a small risk that battery might explode. Don't
over-do the zapping!

I then connect a 10A ammeter across the battery, and watch the current
drop from typically around 5A, to a trickle.

I then switch the meter to volts, and note if the voltage is gradually
rising. If it is, it is probably rechargeable. If it is slowly falling,
the zap hasn't worked. Sometimes another zap is more successful.
--
Ian

 

[Spike]

Brian Morrison wrote:

... but I have to say that my reason for buying it was to allow me to
resurrect some batteries that have been run flat to the point of being
unable to charge in my other chargers. So far the C9000 seems to be
able to sort out 3 out of 5 that I've tried, with another 3 to go.

Wouldn't it have been more cost-effective to buy new cells?

While there are some good techniques about for reviving ones that are
otherwise defunct, as mentioned elsewhere in this thread, the cost
these days even for good quality cells is not high.

If the use to which the recovered cells is in any way critical, then
that's another argument for replacement.

The effectiveness of chargers with a brain depends very much on the
charge-discharge algorithm; I have a 'smart' USB charger here that
flags up nearly any almost-new cell as defunct. While the concept of
the charger is a good one, it is impossible to overcome the inbuilt
algorithm and make the unit a useful item.

These days I stick to Eneloop cells; I find their very long (by other
rechargeable cell's standards) charge-retention times more useful than
outright capacity - 95 percent after 6 months and 80 percent after a
year is a useful bonus in occasionally-used gear.


Spike

 

[Brian Morrison]

On Wed, 15 Sep 2010 12:46:53 +0100
Spike <Aero.Spike@S&T.invalid> wrote:

Brian Morrison wrote:

... but I have to say that my reason for buying it was to allow me to
resurrect some batteries that have been run flat to the point of
being unable to charge in my other chargers. So far the C9000 seems
to be able to sort out 3 out of 5 that I've tried, with another 3 to
go.

Wouldn't it have been more cost-effective to buy new cells?

For a few times, yes, but I decided to invest in ensuring that my
current good cells and future purchases are kept in good condition.

While there are some good techniques about for reviving ones that are
otherwise defunct, as mentioned elsewhere in this thread, the cost
these days even for good quality cells is not high.

True. What's annoying is that a battery case I use won't allow me to
fit in cells that are at the upper limit of AA battery dimensions,
assuming that the places I've looked to confirm the diameter are
correct.

If the use to which the recovered cells is in any way critical, then
that's another argument for replacement.

Well, nothing is critical just now, but there's always the time you
think they will be OK and then you're left without adequate power when
out and about.

The effectiveness of chargers with a brain depends very much on the
charge-discharge algorithm; I have a 'smart' USB charger here that
flags up nearly any almost-new cell as defunct. While the concept of
the charger is a good one, it is impossible to overcome the inbuilt
algorithm and make the unit a useful item.

It would be nice if these chargers were flash programmable, so that any
bad tendencies could be sorted out after purchase.

These days I stick to Eneloop cells; I find their very long (by other
rechargeable cell's standards) charge-retention times more useful than
outright capacity - 95 percent after 6 months and 80 percent after a
year is a useful bonus in occasionally-used gear.

Are they the Sanyo ones? If so I have heard of other reports about
their benefits. Never actually seen any on sale though, I assume you
have to search them out on-line.

--

Brian Morrison

 

[Spike]

Brian Morrison wrote:

On Wed, 15 Sep 2010 12:46:53 +0100
Spike <Aero.Spike@S&T.invalid> wrote:

These days I stick to Eneloop cells; I find their very long (by other
rechargeable cell's standards) charge-retention times more useful than
outright capacity - 95 percent after 6 months and 80 percent after a
year is a useful bonus in occasionally-used gear.

Are they the Sanyo ones? If so I have heard of other reports about
their benefits. Never actually seen any on sale though, I assume you
have to search them out on-line.

Yes, they are by Sanyo, and there's another make as well, GP ReCyko.

Sanyo (various deals) are avalable from Amazon:

http://www.amazon.co.uk/s/ref=nb_sb_noss?url=search-alias%3Daps&field-keywords=eneloop&x=19&y=23

and the ReCyko ones are in the list somewhere.



Spike

 

[Brian Morrison]

On Wed, 15 Sep 2010 15:49:26 +0100
Spike <Aero.Spike@S&T.invalid> wrote:

Brian Morrison wrote:

On Wed, 15 Sep 2010 12:46:53 +0100
Spike <Aero.Spike@S&T.invalid> wrote:

These days I stick to Eneloop cells; I find their very long (by
other rechargeable cell's standards) charge-retention times more
useful than outright capacity - 95 percent after 6 months and 80
percent after a year is a useful bonus in occasionally-used gear.

Are they the Sanyo ones? If so I have heard of other reports about
their benefits. Never actually seen any on sale though, I assume you
have to search them out on-line.

Yes, they are by Sanyo, and there's another make as well, GP ReCyko.

There are also some called Hybrio I think, I saw some on a site
reviewing these type of cells.

Sanyo (various deals) are avalable from Amazon:

http://www.amazon.co.uk/s/ref=nb_sb_noss?url=search-alias%3Daps&field-keywords=eneloop&x=19&y=23

and the ReCyko ones are in the list somewhere.

I have bought 4 from a trader on Ebay, at a shade under 7 GBP. I do
like the idea that they hold their charge for a long time, I had not
realised that hybrid NiMH did that. The capacity is a little lower than
I'd like, but I suspect more of it may be usable so it may not be such
a loss.

--

Brian Morrison

 

[Brian Gregory [UK]]

"Brian Morrison" <bdm@fenrir.org.uk> wrote in message
news:20100915160950.00004a2d@surtees.fenrir.org.uk...

On Wed, 15 Sep 2010 15:49:26 +0100
Spike <Aero.Spike@S&T.invalid> wrote:


Brian Morrison wrote:

On Wed, 15 Sep 2010 12:46:53 +0100
Spike <Aero.Spike@S&T.invalid> wrote:

These days I stick to Eneloop cells; I find their very long (by
other rechargeable cell's standards) charge-retention times more
useful than outright capacity - 95 percent after 6 months and 80
percent after a year is a useful bonus in occasionally-used gear.

Are they the Sanyo ones? If so I have heard of other reports about
their benefits. Never actually seen any on sale though, I assume you
have to search them out on-line.

Yes, they are by Sanyo, and there's another make as well, GP ReCyko.

There are also some called Hybrio I think, I saw some on a site
reviewing these type of cells.


Sanyo (various deals) are avalable from Amazon:

http://www.amazon.co.uk/s/ref=nb_sb_noss?url=search-alias%3Daps&field-keywords=eneloop&x=19&y=23

and the ReCyko ones are in the list somewhere.

I have bought 4 from a trader on Ebay, at a shade under 7 GBP. I do
like the idea that they hold their charge for a long time, I had not
realised that hybrid NiMH did that. The capacity is a little lower than
I'd like, but I suspect more of it may be usable so it may not be such
a loss.

I use Vapex Instants.
http://www.vapextech.co.uk/acatalog/High_Power_Consumer_Batteries.html#a18

--

Brian Gregory. (In the UK)
ng@bgdsv.co.uk
To email me remove the letter vee.

 

[Jon]

I got one of these

http://www.batterylogic.co.uk/technoline/technoline-i-charger.asp

very good but if the battery is dead it needs jumpstarting first before it
will attempt to charge it.
--
Jon



"Brian Morrison" <bdm@fenrir.org.uk> wrote in message
news:20100914142830.00006602@surtees.fenrir.org.uk...

On Tue, 14 Sep 2010 13:26:06 +0100
"Brian Gregory [UK]" <ng@bgdsv.co.uk> wrote:

"Brian Morrison" <bdm@fenrir.org.uk> wrote in message
news:20100913211609.563e7350@peterson.fenrir.org.uk...
On Sat, 11 Sep 2010 01:22:45 +0100
"Brian Gregory [UK]" <ng@bgdsv.co.uk> wrote:

The number of mAH is consistently about 10% below what it should
be (both for charging and for discharging).

I suspect that this includes the charging efficiency, so it is the
capacity that you can extract from the cell after charging is
complete.

But it does it when discharging too.

And the instruction leaflet mentions that the capacity figures are
expected to exceed the actual capacity by 20-30% when charging.


I used the break-in mode on some batteries, and when the process was
finished the cell capacity showing was about 15% of the marked
capacity. Now, I'll grant that these batteries might not be usable any
more, but that seemed a long way out from what I expected. I shall have
to see if they're usable and see what happens after a cycle.

You could enquire of their tech support people as to what's going on....

--

Brian Morrison

 

[Spike]

Brian Gregory [UK] wrote:

"Brian Morrison" <bdm@fenrir.org.uk> wrote in message
news:20100915160950.00004a2d@surtees.fenrir.org.uk...
On Wed, 15 Sep 2010 15:49:26 +0100
Spike <Aero.Spike@S&T.invalid> wrote:

Sanyo (various deals) are avalable from Amazon:

http://www.amazon.co.uk/s/ref=nb_sb_noss?url=search-alias%3Daps&field-keywords=eneloop&x=19&y=23

and the ReCyko ones are in the list somewhere.

I have bought 4 from a trader on Ebay, at a shade under 7 GBP. I do
like the idea that they hold their charge for a long time, I had not
realised that hybrid NiMH did that. The capacity is a little lower than
I'd like, but I suspect more of it may be usable so it may not be such
a loss.

I use Vapex Instants.
http://www.vapextech.co.uk/acatalog/High_Power_Consumer_Batteries.html#a18

The charge retention on the Vapex seems inferior to the Eneloop:

Vapex 6 months About 80% of charge is held
12 months About 70% of charge is held

Eneloop: 90 per cent of the charge after 6 months
85 per cent after 12 months

and the Eneloops are cheaper; an 8-pack is Ł15.59 with free shipping
from Amazon.


Spike

 

[Ian Jackson]

In message <f7i396pianstgvqk9ii0ebdqgh8n38a2ug@4ax.com>, Spike
<Aero.Spike@S&T.invalid> writes

Brian Gregory [UK] wrote:

"Brian Morrison" <bdm@fenrir.org.uk> wrote in message
news:20100915160950.00004a2d@surtees.fenrir.org.uk...
On Wed, 15 Sep 2010 15:49:26 +0100
Spike <Aero.Spike@S&T.invalid> wrote:

Sanyo (various deals) are avalable from Amazon:


http://www.amazon.co.uk/s/ref=nb_sb_noss?url=search-alias%3Daps&field
-keywords=eneloop&x=19&y=23

and the ReCyko ones are in the list somewhere.

I have bought 4 from a trader on Ebay, at a shade under 7 GBP. I do
like the idea that they hold their charge for a long time, I had not
realised that hybrid NiMH did that. The capacity is a little lower than
I'd like, but I suspect more of it may be usable so it may not be such
a loss.

I use Vapex Instants.
http://www.vapextech.co.uk/acatalog/High_Power_Consumer_Batteries.html#a18

The charge retention on the Vapex seems inferior to the Eneloop:

Vapex 6 months About 80% of charge is held
12 months About 70% of charge is held

Eneloop: 90 per cent of the charge after 6 months
85 per cent after 12 months

and the Eneloops are cheaper; an 8-pack is Ł15.59 with free shipping
from Amazon.

Over the past three years, I have, at radio rallies, bought 4 packs of 4

Vapex AAs (2700 and 2800mAh). So far, four have gone bad. They rapidly
lost their charge and, beneath the plastic, the casing went 'bubbly' and
'lumpy'. I have no idea why this should have happened. They were all
used for light duties - powering radios and the like, and generally
treated well.

On the other hand, I'm still using some AA nicads, which came out of a
printed circuit board, bought at one of the Shuttleworth rallies, some
20 years ago (even if they have now been relegated to powering some
solar powered garden lights!).
--
Ian

 

[Walt Davidson]

On Thu, 16 Sep 2010 10:06:31 +0100, Ian Jackson
<ianREMOVETHISjackson@g3ohx.demon.co.uk> wrote:

Over the past three years, I have, at radio rallies, bought 4 packs of 4
Vapex AAs (2700 and 2800mAh). So far, four have gone bad. They rapidly
lost their charge and, beneath the plastic, the casing went 'bubbly' and
'lumpy'. I have no idea why this should have happened. They were all
used for light duties - powering radios and the like, and generally
treated well.

On the other hand, I'm still using some AA nicads, which came out of a
printed circuit board, bought at one of the Shuttleworth rallies, some
20 years ago (even if they have now been relegated to powering some
solar powered garden lights!).

FWIW, the best NiMH cells I have ever bought are Ansmann 2850 maH fast
rechargeable.

They are not the cheapest, but worth the little extra. They are
available, together with an Ansmann intelligent charger, from
Amazon.co.uk

73 de G3NYY

--
Walt Davidson Email: g3nyy @despammed.com

 

[Spike]

Walt Davidson wrote:

FWIW, the best NiMH cells I have ever bought are Ansmann 2850 maH fast
rechargeable.

For various values of 'best', of course.

The two options seem to be high capacity with significant
self-discharge rates, or lesser capacity with superior charge
retention times.

73 de G3NYY

Spike

 

[Walt Davidson]

On Thu, 16 Sep 2010 11:38:34 +0100, Spike <Aero.Spike@S&T.invalid>
wrote:

Walt Davidson wrote:

FWIW, the best NiMH cells I have ever bought are Ansmann 2850 maH fast
rechargeable.

For various values of 'best', of course.

The two options seem to be high capacity with significant
self-discharge rates, or lesser capacity with superior charge
retention times.

In my experience of using these cells, it is not a case of
"either/or". They appear to have both high capacity and good charge
retention performance.

73 de G3NYY

--
Walt Davidson Email: g3nyy @despammed.com

 

[Brian Morrison]

On Thu, 16 Sep 2010 11:58:54 +0100
Walt Davidson <g3nyy@invalid.invalid> wrote:

On Thu, 16 Sep 2010 11:38:34 +0100, Spike <Aero.Spike@S&T.invalid
wrote:


Walt Davidson wrote:

FWIW, the best NiMH cells I have ever bought are Ansmann 2850 maH
fast rechargeable.

For various values of 'best', of course.

The two options seem to be high capacity with significant
self-discharge rates, or lesser capacity with superior charge
retention times.

In my experience of using these cells, it is not a case of
"either/or". They appear to have both high capacity and good charge
retention performance.

What do you class as good in that respect?

--

Brian Morrison