Another Brilliant Rumination - Waterproofing LED Flashlight

  • Thread starter Watson A.Name - "Watt Sun
  • Start date
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Watson A.Name - "Watt Sun

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I got to thinking about all these projects I've built in Altoids tins,
etc. One drawback is that they aren't waterproof, or water resistant.
They pretty much let the water in, even in the rain.

I've built a couple of them in an 'open frame', in other words, on a
piece of flat aluminum, or in an L shaped piece of aluminum. They're
sturdy, and work okay. They are totally open to the elements, so
water would go ritght into them.

But then I got to thinking. Is that a problem? The batteries,
circuit and LEDs wouldn't be hurt by a little water if it dries out in
a short period, which is what happens with the open frame. About the
only thing that would corrode a lot would be the switch, because it's
enclosed and the water would gather inside and stay there, rusting the
contacts and other moving parts. I guess I could pack some grease
into the switch, to help keep out the water. But I found that one
cheap flashlight I bought wouldn't turn off, the LEDs would continue
to glow. Well, apparently the grease in the switch was conducting a
bit, causing the LEDs to stay on very dimly. So I'd have to use some
non-conductive grease.

BTW, I'm presuming that the water is like rain water, not water with
salt in it like seawater. Seawater would corrode anything since he
salt would stay there after it dried and humidity would keep it
corroding, unless everything was either stainless steel or bronze.
But I'm not concerned about salt water, only regular rain water.

Just looking for thoughts on this idea.

--
@@F@r@o@m@@O@r@a@n@g@e@@C@o@u@n@t@y@,@@C@a@l@,@@w@h@e@r@e@@
###Got a Question about ELECTRONICS? Check HERE First:###
http://users.pandora.be/educypedia/electronics/databank.htm
My email address is whitelisted. *All* email sent to it
goes directly to the trash unless you add NOSPAM in the
Subject: line with other stuff. alondra101 <at> hotmail.com
Don't be ripped off by the big book dealers. Go to the URL
that will give you a choice and save you money(up to half).
http://www.everybookstore.com You'll be glad you did!
Just when you thought you had all this figured out, the gov't
changed it: http://physics.nist.gov/cuu/Units/binary.html
@@t@h@e@@a@f@f@l@u@e@n@t@@m@e@e@t@@t@h@e@@E@f@f@l@u@e@n@t@@
 
"Watson A.Name - Watt Sun, Dark Remover" <alondra101@hotmail.com> wrote in
message news:MPG.1a2fdd477a4ef0d698998b@news.dslextreme.com...
I got to thinking about all these projects I've built in Altoids tins,
etc. One drawback is that they aren't waterproof, or water resistant.
They pretty much let the water in, even in the rain.

I've built a couple of them in an 'open frame', in other words, on a
piece of flat aluminum, or in an L shaped piece of aluminum. They're
sturdy, and work okay. They are totally open to the elements, so
water would go ritght into them.

But then I got to thinking. Is that a problem? The batteries,
circuit and LEDs wouldn't be hurt by a little water if it dries out in
a short period, which is what happens with the open frame. About the
only thing that would corrode a lot would be the switch, because it's
enclosed and the water would gather inside and stay there, rusting the
contacts and other moving parts. I guess I could pack some grease
into the switch, to help keep out the water. But I found that one
cheap flashlight I bought wouldn't turn off, the LEDs would continue
to glow. Well, apparently the grease in the switch was conducting a
bit, causing the LEDs to stay on very dimly. So I'd have to use some
non-conductive grease.

BTW, I'm presuming that the water is like rain water, not water with
salt in it like seawater. Seawater would corrode anything since he
salt would stay there after it dried and humidity would keep it
corroding, unless everything was either stainless steel or bronze.
But I'm not concerned about salt water, only regular rain water.

Just looking for thoughts on this idea.
Click to expand...
LED's will eventually wick water up into the dies, ruining the bond wires.
I've saw this happen to LED 3rd brake lights.

--
@@F@r@o@m@@O@r@a@n@g@e@@C@o@u@n@t@y@,@@C@a@l@,@@w@h@e@r@e@@
###Got a Question about ELECTRONICS? Check HERE First:###
http://users.pandora.be/educypedia/electronics/databank.htm
My email address is whitelisted. *All* email sent to it
goes directly to the trash unless you add NOSPAM in the
Subject: line with other stuff. alondra101 <at> hotmail.com
Don't be ripped off by the big book dealers. Go to the URL
that will give you a choice and save you money(up to half).
http://www.everybookstore.com You'll be glad you did!
Just when you thought you had all this figured out, the gov't
changed it: http://physics.nist.gov/cuu/Units/binary.html
@@t@h@e@@a@f@f@l@u@e@n@t@@m@e@e@t@@t@h@e@@E@f@f@l@u@e@n@t@@
Click to expand...
 
"Jeff" <levy_jeff@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:fgrxb.37990$R13.1212527@ursa-nb00s0.nbnet.nb.ca...
"Watson A.Name - Watt Sun, Dark Remover" <alondra101@hotmail.com> wrote in
message news:MPG.1a2fdd477a4ef0d698998b@news.dslextreme.com...

I got to thinking about all these projects I've built in Altoids tins,
etc. One drawback is that they aren't waterproof, or water resistant.
They pretty much let the water in, even in the rain.

I've built a couple of them in an 'open frame', in other words, on a
piece of flat aluminum, or in an L shaped piece of aluminum. They're
sturdy, and work okay. They are totally open to the elements, so
water would go ritght into them.

But then I got to thinking. Is that a problem? The batteries,
circuit and LEDs wouldn't be hurt by a little water if it dries out in
a short period, which is what happens with the open frame. About the
only thing that would corrode a lot would be the switch, because it's
enclosed and the water would gather inside and stay there, rusting the
contacts and other moving parts. I guess I could pack some grease
into the switch, to help keep out the water. But I found that one
cheap flashlight I bought wouldn't turn off, the LEDs would continue
to glow. Well, apparently the grease in the switch was conducting a
bit, causing the LEDs to stay on very dimly. So I'd have to use some
non-conductive grease.

BTW, I'm presuming that the water is like rain water, not water with
salt in it like seawater. Seawater would corrode anything since he
salt would stay there after it dried and humidity would keep it
corroding, unless everything was either stainless steel or bronze.
But I'm not concerned about salt water, only regular rain water.

Just looking for thoughts on this idea.


LED's will eventually wick water up into the dies, ruining the bond wires.
I've saw this happen to LED 3rd brake lights.

--


Why not just encapsulate your project, with Liquid Electrical Tape,
Click to expand...
or the stuff you dip tools in to insulate the handles. If there is a heat
issue, make a heat riser that passes thru the plastic. Check out
boat trailer supply/ repair.

Luck;
Ken
 
In article <3fc70a71$0$61874$a32e20b9@news.nntpservers.com>,
kmaltby@sbcglobal.net mentioned...
"Jeff" <levy_jeff@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:fgrxb.37990$R13.1212527@ursa-nb00s0.nbnet.nb.ca...

"Watson A.Name - Watt Sun, Dark Remover" <alondra101@hotmail.com> wrote in
message news:MPG.1a2fdd477a4ef0d698998b@news.dslextreme.com...

I got to thinking about all these projects I've built in Altoids tins,
etc. One drawback is that they aren't waterproof, or water resistant.
They pretty much let the water in, even in the rain.

I've built a couple of them in an 'open frame', in other words, on a
piece of flat aluminum, or in an L shaped piece of aluminum. They're
sturdy, and work okay. They are totally open to the elements, so
water would go ritght into them.

But then I got to thinking. Is that a problem? The batteries,
circuit and LEDs wouldn't be hurt by a little water if it dries out in
a short period, which is what happens with the open frame. About the
only thing that would corrode a lot would be the switch, because it's
enclosed and the water would gather inside and stay there, rusting the
contacts and other moving parts. I guess I could pack some grease
into the switch, to help keep out the water. But I found that one
cheap flashlight I bought wouldn't turn off, the LEDs would continue
to glow. Well, apparently the grease in the switch was conducting a
bit, causing the LEDs to stay on very dimly. So I'd have to use some
non-conductive grease.

BTW, I'm presuming that the water is like rain water, not water with
salt in it like seawater. Seawater would corrode anything since he
salt would stay there after it dried and humidity would keep it
corroding, unless everything was either stainless steel or bronze.
But I'm not concerned about salt water, only regular rain water.

Just looking for thoughts on this idea.


LED's will eventually wick water up into the dies, ruining the bond wires.
I've saw this happen to LED 3rd brake lights.
Click to expand...

Why not just encapsulate your project, with Liquid Electrical Tape,
or the stuff you dip tools in to insulate the handles. If there is a heat
issue, make a heat riser that passes thru the plastic. Check out
boat trailer supply/ repair.

Luck;
Ken
Click to expand...
Thanks for the info. I was supposing that the exposure time to the
water would be short because it would dry out soon after being
exposed. And with a short exposure time, the amount of water getting
inside the LEDs would be minimized, and their lifetimes would not be
shortened considerably. But you may have pointed out a weak spot that
could be a problem if the water stayed for a long time. Or if the
water had salt in it from the streets, where salt is used to get rid
of snow. Fortunately in SOuthern California, that's not a problem.

The liquid goop sounds like a good idea. But the problem is that if
you have an open frame, and dip only part of it in the goop, then
there is still a problem with water wicking up the wires where they
enter the goop. So it would be best to cover the whole framw with
goop. But then every time I need to change batteries, I would have to
cut away the goop where the batteries are. And regoop it afterwards.

But one thing that I had planned to do is use rechargeable Ni-MH AA
cells for this open frame light. If I installed the cells permanently
and added a jack to recharge the batteries, it would allow me to
encapsulate the whole thing in goop. The only problem is to keep the
goop out of the on/off switch and the charging jack.

I bought a forever flashlight that uses a reed switch and magnet to
turn it on. I've got a lot of small reed switches, and I could use
such a system to replace the switch. But the reed switches I have are
very low current and might fail if I tried to switch a few hundred mA
of battery current. I might be able to get it to work by just
switching the base of the driver transistor off. The trick is to get
some kind of sliding mechanism for the magnet, with a detent like a
slide switch so it stays at one end or the other.

Thanks for the info.


--
@@F@r@o@m@@O@r@a@n@g@e@@C@o@u@n@t@y@,@@C@a@l@,@@w@h@e@r@e@@
###Got a Question about ELECTRONICS? Check HERE First:###
http://users.pandora.be/educypedia/electronics/databank.htm
My email address is whitelisted. *All* email sent to it
goes directly to the trash unless you add NOSPAM in the
Subject: line with other stuff. alondra101 <at> hotmail.com
Don't be ripped off by the big book dealers. Go to the URL
that will give you a choice and save you money(up to half).
http://www.everybookstore.com You'll be glad you did!
Just when you thought you had all this figured out, the gov't
changed it: http://physics.nist.gov/cuu/Units/binary.html
@@t@h@e@@a@f@f@l@u@e@n@t@@m@e@e@t@@t@h@e@@E@f@f@l@u@e@n@t@@
 
"Watson A.Name - Watt Sun, Dark Remover" <alondra101@hotmail.com> wrote in
message news:MPG.1a312636f472e94c989991@news.dslextreme.com...
In article <3fc70a71$0$61874$a32e20b9@news.nntpservers.com>,
kmaltby@sbcglobal.net mentioned...

"Jeff" <levy_jeff@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:fgrxb.37990$R13.1212527@ursa-nb00s0.nbnet.nb.ca...

"Watson A.Name - Watt Sun, Dark Remover" <alondra101@hotmail.com
wrote in
message news:MPG.1a2fdd477a4ef0d698998b@news.dslextreme.com...

I got to thinking about all these projects I've built in Altoids
tins,
etc. One drawback is that they aren't waterproof, or water
resistant.
They pretty much let the water in, even in the rain.

I've built a couple of them in an 'open frame', in other words, on a
piece of flat aluminum, or in an L shaped piece of aluminum.
They're
sturdy, and work okay. They are totally open to the elements, so
water would go ritght into them.

But then I got to thinking. Is that a problem? The batteries,
circuit and LEDs wouldn't be hurt by a little water if it dries out
in
a short period, which is what happens with the open frame. About
the
only thing that would corrode a lot would be the switch, because
it's
enclosed and the water would gather inside and stay there, rusting
the
contacts and other moving parts. I guess I could pack some grease
into the switch, to help keep out the water. But I found that one
cheap flashlight I bought wouldn't turn off, the LEDs would continue
to glow. Well, apparently the grease in the switch was conducting a
bit, causing the LEDs to stay on very dimly. So I'd have to use
some
non-conductive grease.

BTW, I'm presuming that the water is like rain water, not water with
salt in it like seawater. Seawater would corrode anything since he
salt would stay there after it dried and humidity would keep it
corroding, unless everything was either stainless steel or bronze.
But I'm not concerned about salt water, only regular rain water.

Just looking for thoughts on this idea.


LED's will eventually wick water up into the dies, ruining the bond
wires.
I've saw this happen to LED 3rd brake lights.


Why not just encapsulate your project, with Liquid Electrical Tape,
or the stuff you dip tools in to insulate the handles. If there is a
heat
issue, make a heat riser that passes thru the plastic. Check out
boat trailer supply/ repair.

Luck;
Ken

Thanks for the info. I was supposing that the exposure time to the
water would be short because it would dry out soon after being
exposed. And with a short exposure time, the amount of water getting
inside the LEDs would be minimized, and their lifetimes would not be
shortened considerably. But you may have pointed out a weak spot that
could be a problem if the water stayed for a long time. Or if the
water had salt in it from the streets, where salt is used to get rid
of snow. Fortunately in SOuthern California, that's not a problem.

The liquid goop sounds like a good idea. But the problem is that if
you have an open frame, and dip only part of it in the goop, then
there is still a problem with water wicking up the wires where they
enter the goop.
Click to expand...
It is watertight, originally designed to seal the wires and connectors
of a boat trailer. (BTW "Goop" is a trade name for a product series
that includes some for this purpose. The "Liquid Electrical Tape" is
a different approach.)


So it would be best to cover the whole framw with
goop. But then every time I need to change batteries, I would have to
cut away the goop where the batteries are. And regoop it afterwards.

But one thing that I had planned to do is use rechargeable Ni-MH AA
cells for this open frame light. If I installed the cells permanently
and added a jack to recharge the batteries, it would allow me to
encapsulate the whole thing in goop. The only problem is to keep the
goop out of the on/off switch and the charging jack.

I bought a forever flashlight that uses a reed switch and magnet to
turn it on. I've got a lot of small reed switches, and I could use
such a system to replace the switch. But the reed switches I have are
very low current and might fail if I tried to switch a few hundred mA
of battery current. I might be able to get it to work by just
switching the base of the driver transistor off. The trick is to get
some kind of sliding mechanism for the magnet, with a detent like a
slide switch so it stays at one end or the other.

Thanks for the info.


--
@@F@r@o@m@@O@r@a@n@g@e@@C@o@u@n@t@y@,@@C@a@l@,@@w@h@e@r@e@@
###Got a Question about ELECTRONICS? Check HERE First:###
http://users.pandora.be/educypedia/electronics/databank.htm
My email address is whitelisted. *All* email sent to it
goes directly to the trash unless you add NOSPAM in the
Subject: line with other stuff. alondra101 <at> hotmail.com
Don't be ripped off by the big book dealers. Go to the URL
that will give you a choice and save you money(up to half).
http://www.everybookstore.com You'll be glad you did!
Just when you thought you had all this figured out, the gov't
changed it: http://physics.nist.gov/cuu/Units/binary.html
@@t@h@e@@a@f@f@l@u@e@n@t@@m@e@e@t@@t@h@e@@E@f@f@l@u@e@n@t@@
Click to expand...
 
"Watson A.Name - Watt Sun, Dark Remover" <alondra101@hotmail.com> wrote in
message news:MPG.1a2fdd477a4ef0d698998b@news.dslextreme.com...
The batteries,
circuit and LEDs wouldn't be hurt by a little water if it dries out in
a short period, which is what happens with the open frame. About the
only thing that would corrode a lot would be the switch, because it's
enclosed and the water would gather inside and stay there, rusting the
contacts and other moving parts.
....
So I'd have to use some non-conductive grease.
Click to expand...
Use petroluem jelly rather than automotive grease.


BTW, I'm presuming that the water is like rain water, not water with
salt in it like seawater. Seawater would corrode anything since he
salt would stay there after it dried and humidity would keep it
corroding, unless everything was either stainless steel or bronze.
Click to expand...
Even if it is fairly clean to start with, your water will soon get salty
from electrolysis, and when it dries will deposit salts. Then whenever is
gets damp it will absorb water, conduct, and corrode some more. I've seen
flood-damaged industrial equipment fail this way months after the event.
Even condensation does it, which is cleaner than rainwater.

This corrosion will apply equally well to copper, bronze or stainless steel,
You need gold or platinum wiring to prevent it!

When I get a water damaged (or once, toffee contaminated) PCB to repair, my
first action, to everyone's horror, is to wash it. It's the only way to get
rid of the salts. I do bake it out thoroughly before applying any bias.
And they do work afterwards.


Tim Jackson
Industrial electronic engineer
 
OK - You should get alot of answers on making it waterproof... but now make
it float for boating uses. Then make an LED fishing bobber for night
fishing. Extra credit if the LED changes colors when you get a bite.

~Tom in Mn
 
"Watson A.Name - Watt Sun, Dark Remover" wrote:
I got to thinking about all these projects I've built in Altoids tins,
etc. One drawback is that they aren't waterproof, or water resistant.
They pretty much let the water in, even in the rain.

I've built a couple of them in an 'open frame', in other words, on a
piece of flat aluminum, or in an L shaped piece of aluminum. They're
sturdy, and work okay. They are totally open to the elements, so
water would go ritght into them.

But then I got to thinking. Is that a problem? The batteries,
circuit and LEDs wouldn't be hurt by a little water if it dries out in
a short period, which is what happens with the open frame. About the
only thing that would corrode a lot would be the switch, because it's
enclosed and the water would gather inside and stay there, rusting the
contacts and other moving parts. I guess I could pack some grease
into the switch, to help keep out the water. But I found that one
cheap flashlight I bought wouldn't turn off, the LEDs would continue
to glow. Well, apparently the grease in the switch was conducting a
bit, causing the LEDs to stay on very dimly. So I'd have to use some
non-conductive grease.

BTW, I'm presuming that the water is like rain water, not water with
salt in it like seawater. Seawater would corrode anything since he
salt would stay there after it dried and humidity would keep it
corroding, unless everything was either stainless steel or bronze.
But I'm not concerned about salt water, only regular rain water.

Just looking for thoughts on this idea.
Click to expand...

I had the water concern too regarding a bicycle speed logger I built
into an Altoid Sours tin last month. I put a super bright red LED into
the prototype to give visual verification that wheel rotations were
being sensed (I was afraid the shock and vibe of riding would shake the
circuit to pieces). I drilled and filed a small window in the lid ...
the center of the "O" in Altoids ... and RTVed behind it an oval sliver
of acetate sheet. Probably polystyrene would have worked just as well
but I didn't want to sacrifice a parts drawer <G>. I didn't even try to
waterproof the lid itself. Electron routes stayed dry through two rain
storms, though I'm certain this would not have been the case if the tin
had been upside down.

By the way, have you housed one of your steel-melting LED flashlights in
a round Altoids Sours tin? I haven't seen one posted.
 
In article <3fc827a2_2@newspeer2.tds.net>, file13@nojunkmail.com
mentioned...
OK - You should get alot of answers on making it waterproof... but now make
it float for boating uses. Then make an LED fishing bobber for night
fishing. Extra credit if the LED changes colors when you get a bite.

~Tom in Mn
Click to expand...
The first one I made was aluminum and this latest one is brass, and
both would sink like an anchor if dropped in water. But I made it
clear in the OP that I was not concerned about that, that I was asking
about waterproofing against rain water.

Thanks for the ideas tho.

--
@@F@r@o@m@@O@r@a@n@g@e@@C@o@u@n@t@y@,@@C@a@l@,@@w@h@e@r@e@@
###Got a Question about ELECTRONICS? Check HERE First:###
http://users.pandora.be/educypedia/electronics/databank.htm
My email address is whitelisted. *All* email sent to it
goes directly to the trash unless you add NOSPAM in the
Subject: line with other stuff. alondra101 <at> hotmail.com
Don't be ripped off by the big book dealers. Go to the URL
that will give you a choice and save you money(up to half).
http://www.everybookstore.com You'll be glad you did!
Just when you thought you had all this figured out, the gov't
changed it: http://physics.nist.gov/cuu/Units/binary.html
@@t@h@e@@a@f@f@l@u@e@n@t@@m@e@e@t@@t@h@e@@E@f@f@l@u@e@n@t@@
 
In article <3FC83502.EE2F851D@att.net>, NoSpam@att.net mentioned...
"Watson A.Name - Watt Sun, Dark Remover" wrote:

I got to thinking about all these projects I've built in Altoids tins,
etc. One drawback is that they aren't waterproof, or water resistant.
They pretty much let the water in, even in the rain.

I've built a couple of them in an 'open frame', in other words, on a
piece of flat aluminum, or in an L shaped piece of aluminum. They're
sturdy, and work okay. They are totally open to the elements, so
water would go ritght into them.

But then I got to thinking. Is that a problem? The batteries,
circuit and LEDs wouldn't be hurt by a little water if it dries out in
a short period, which is what happens with the open frame. About the
only thing that would corrode a lot would be the switch, because it's
enclosed and the water would gather inside and stay there, rusting the
contacts and other moving parts. I guess I could pack some grease
into the switch, to help keep out the water. But I found that one
cheap flashlight I bought wouldn't turn off, the LEDs would continue
to glow. Well, apparently the grease in the switch was conducting a
bit, causing the LEDs to stay on very dimly. So I'd have to use some
non-conductive grease.

BTW, I'm presuming that the water is like rain water, not water with
salt in it like seawater. Seawater would corrode anything since he
salt would stay there after it dried and humidity would keep it
corroding, unless everything was either stainless steel or bronze.
But I'm not concerned about salt water, only regular rain water.

Just looking for thoughts on this idea.



I had the water concern too regarding a bicycle speed logger I built
into an Altoid Sours tin last month. I put a super bright red LED into
Click to expand...
Cool! Someone else finds a use for an Altoids tin!

the prototype to give visual verification that wheel rotations were
being sensed (I was afraid the shock and vibe of riding would shake the
circuit to pieces). I drilled and filed a small window in the lid ...
the center of the "O" in Altoids ... and RTVed behind it an oval sliver
of acetate sheet. Probably polystyrene would have worked just as well
but I didn't want to sacrifice a parts drawer <G>. I didn't even try to
waterproof the lid itself. Electron routes stayed dry through two rain
storms, though I'm certain this would not have been the case if the tin
had been upside down.

By the way, have you housed one of your steel-melting LED flashlights in
a round Altoids Sours tin? I haven't seen one posted.
Click to expand...
Problem is that the LEDs have to be directed in one direction, so
putting them on the round edge would be a real problem. They would
have to be mounted on a flat surface. And the batteries just don't
fit well into a round tin. There would be a large amount of unused
space where nothing much would fit because of the curve.

I'll (re)post a pic of the Coffee Mints tin light I made recently to
the ABSE newsgroup. There's almost no space left inside after three
AAA cells, three LEDs w/ 3 resistors, and a switch are stuffed inside.
It's about as small as one could make it in that shape. I really
didn't need to glue anything because there's so little space that
things don't move around inside.

--
@@F@r@o@m@@O@r@a@n@g@e@@C@o@u@n@t@y@,@@C@a@l@,@@w@h@e@r@e@@
###Got a Question about ELECTRONICS? Check HERE First:###
http://users.pandora.be/educypedia/electronics/databank.htm
My email address is whitelisted. *All* email sent to it
goes directly to the trash unless you add NOSPAM in the
Subject: line with other stuff. alondra101 <at> hotmail.com
Don't be ripped off by the big book dealers. Go to the URL
that will give you a choice and save you money(up to half).
http://www.everybookstore.com You'll be glad you did!
Just when you thought you had all this figured out, the gov't
changed it: http://physics.nist.gov/cuu/Units/binary.html
@@t@h@e@@a@f@f@l@u@e@n@t@@m@e@e@t@@t@h@e@@E@f@f@l@u@e@n@t@@
 
In article <lXNxb.15285$oi5.2102286@stones.force9.net>, tim@tim-
jackson.co.uk mentioned...
"Watson A.Name - Watt Sun, Dark Remover" <alondra101@hotmail.com> wrote in
message news:MPG.1a2fdd477a4ef0d698998b@news.dslextreme.com...

The batteries,
circuit and LEDs wouldn't be hurt by a little water if it dries out in
a short period, which is what happens with the open frame. About the
only thing that would corrode a lot would be the switch, because it's
enclosed and the water would gather inside and stay there, rusting the
contacts and other moving parts.
...
So I'd have to use some non-conductive grease.


Use petroluem jelly rather than automotive grease.


BTW, I'm presuming that the water is like rain water, not water with
salt in it like seawater. Seawater would corrode anything since he
salt would stay there after it dried and humidity would keep it
corroding, unless everything was either stainless steel or bronze.


Even if it is fairly clean to start with, your water will soon get salty
from electrolysis, and when it dries will deposit salts. Then whenever is
gets damp it will absorb water, conduct, and corrode some more. I've seen
flood-damaged industrial equipment fail this way months after the event.
Even condensation does it, which is cleaner than rainwater.

This corrosion will apply equally well to copper, bronze or stainless steel,
You need gold or platinum wiring to prevent it!

When I get a water damaged (or once, toffee contaminated) PCB to repair, my
first action, to everyone's horror, is to wash it. It's the only way to get
rid of the salts. I do bake it out thoroughly before applying any bias.
And they do work afterwards.
Click to expand...
I bought something almost as good as toffee. I got a spray can of
goop, the handle grip stuff that you put on pliers handles and
screwdrivers, etc. I'm going to go outside and give my open frame
light a couple coats to see how it works. I'm not going to spray the
battery holder, but most everything else. The goop is clear, so it
should allow me to see the innards somewhat. I'll post later on the
results, maybe a pic if it comes out okay.

Tim Jackson
Industrial electronic engineer
Click to expand...

--
@@F@r@o@m@@O@r@a@n@g@e@@C@o@u@n@t@y@,@@C@a@l@,@@w@h@e@r@e@@
###Got a Question about ELECTRONICS? Check HERE First:###
http://users.pandora.be/educypedia/electronics/databank.htm
My email address is whitelisted. *All* email sent to it
goes directly to the trash unless you add NOSPAM in the
Subject: line with other stuff. alondra101 <at> hotmail.com
Don't be ripped off by the big book dealers. Go to the URL
that will give you a choice and save you money(up to half).
http://www.everybookstore.com You'll be glad you did!
Just when you thought you had all this figured out, the gov't
changed it: http://physics.nist.gov/cuu/Units/binary.html
@@t@h@e@@a@f@f@l@u@e@n@t@@m@e@e@t@@t@h@e@@E@f@f@l@u@e@n@t@@
 
In sci.electronics.design Watson A.Name - "Watt Sun, Dark Remover" <alondra101@hotmail.com> wrote:
<snip>
battery holder, but most everything else. The goop is clear, so it
should allow me to see the innards somewhat. I'll post later on the
results, maybe a pic if it comes out okay.
Click to expand...
The battery is probably the component that will fail soonest when wet.
It's got a small gap across the seal, and will rapidly corrode.
 
On Sat, 29 Nov 2003 04:24:03 -0800, Watson A.Name - "Watt Sun, Dark
Remover" <alondra101@hotmail.com> Gave us:

In article <3fc827a2_2@newspeer2.tds.net>, file13@nojunkmail.com
mentioned...
OK - You should get alot of answers on making it waterproof... but now make
it float for boating uses. Then make an LED fishing bobber for night
fishing. Extra credit if the LED changes colors when you get a bite.

~Tom in Mn

The first one I made was aluminum and this latest one is brass, and
both would sink like an anchor if dropped in water. But I made it
clear in the OP that I was not concerned about that, that I was asking
about waterproofing against rain water.

Thanks for the ideas tho.
Click to expand...
If you use an RTV encapsulant, you get the opportunity to service
the device in the future as it will shear easily under pressure.

If you use a hard epoxy, it will work well, but be rendered all but
totally unserviceable.

Make the design such that any silicon elements that exhibit heat in
the design will be on the outboard edge of the "case" for conduction
cooling purposes.

The hard bricks conduct better as a monolithic block than the RTV
typically does. If you use gold terms for the battery contacts, you
can use external battery "packs" that you construct to attach to it.
Long term non-corrosion there. Or use car ignition points, which are
platinum plated, an even better non-oxidating metal than is gold.
 
In article <MPG.1a3273f6dce8fce498999d@news.dslextreme.com>, Watson
A.Name - "Watt Sun, Dark Remover" <alondra101@hotmail.com>
mentioned...
In article <lXNxb.15285$oi5.2102286@stones.force9.net>, tim@tim-
jackson.co.uk mentioned...

"Watson A.Name - Watt Sun, Dark Remover" <alondra101@hotmail.com> wrote in
message news:MPG.1a2fdd477a4ef0d698998b@news.dslextreme.com...

The batteries,
circuit and LEDs wouldn't be hurt by a little water if it dries out in
a short period, which is what happens with the open frame. About the
only thing that would corrode a lot would be the switch, because it's
enclosed and the water would gather inside and stay there, rusting the
contacts and other moving parts.
...
So I'd have to use some non-conductive grease.


Use petroluem jelly rather than automotive grease.


BTW, I'm presuming that the water is like rain water, not water with
salt in it like seawater. Seawater would corrode anything since he
salt would stay there after it dried and humidity would keep it
corroding, unless everything was either stainless steel or bronze.


Even if it is fairly clean to start with, your water will soon get salty
from electrolysis, and when it dries will deposit salts. Then whenever is
gets damp it will absorb water, conduct, and corrode some more. I've seen
flood-damaged industrial equipment fail this way months after the event.
Even condensation does it, which is cleaner than rainwater.

This corrosion will apply equally well to copper, bronze or stainless steel,
You need gold or platinum wiring to prevent it!

When I get a water damaged (or once, toffee contaminated) PCB to repair, my
first action, to everyone's horror, is to wash it. It's the only way to get
rid of the salts. I do bake it out thoroughly before applying any bias.
And they do work afterwards.

I bought something almost as good as toffee. I got a spray can of
goop, the handle grip stuff that you put on pliers handles and
screwdrivers, etc. I'm going to go outside and give my open frame
light a couple coats to see how it works. I'm not going to spray the
battery holder, but most everything else. The goop is clear, so it
should allow me to see the innards somewhat. I'll post later on the
results, maybe a pic if it comes out okay.
Click to expand...
Well, I went outside and gave the open frame light many spray coats of
"Rustoleum Grip & Guard". I'm very disappointed with the results. I
had laid two layers of black electrical tape on the brass frame to
keep the circuit board from shorting against the brass. After a few
coats, the topmost layer began to swell up from the xylene, naphtha,
and acetone in the goop, so I had to pull that layer out. Then after
several more coats, the bottom layer of electrical tape started to
swell and curl up, so I had to pull that out, too.

But even after many coats, with some drying between coats like it said
on the can, I still could not get the coating to build up on the
surfaces. It was more like the consistency of crankcase oil, and most
of it flowed down to the bottom of the brass case. Almost none of it
stayed on vertical surfaces. It's a mystery to me how this stuff is
supposed to cover the handles of a pliers, where there is no flat
surface.

I think I should have bought the dipping can, where the handles are
dipped into the goop. I don't know how I would apply the thick stuff,
I would probably have to pour it in and try to keep it from running
out with some tape and plastic sheet.

Altogether this has been an excellent time waster. Not much
accomplished with the goop.

Tim Jackson
Industrial electronic engineer
Click to expand...

--
@@F@r@o@m@@O@r@a@n@g@e@@C@o@u@n@t@y@,@@C@a@l@,@@w@h@e@r@e@@
###Got a Question about ELECTRONICS? Check HERE First:###
http://users.pandora.be/educypedia/electronics/databank.htm
My email address is whitelisted. *All* email sent to it
goes directly to the trash unless you add NOSPAM in the
Subject: line with other stuff. alondra101 <at> hotmail.com
Don't be ripped off by the big book dealers. Go to the URL
that will give you a choice and save you money(up to half).
http://www.everybookstore.com You'll be glad you did!
Just when you thought you had all this figured out, the gov't
changed it: http://physics.nist.gov/cuu/Units/binary.html
@@t@h@e@@a@f@f@l@u@e@n@t@@m@e@e@t@@t@h@e@@E@f@f@l@u@e@n@t@@
 
On Thu, 27 Nov 2003 10:08:40 -0800, Watson A.Name - "Watt Sun, Dark
Remover" <alondra101@hotmail.com> wrote:

I got to thinking about all these projects I've built in Altoids tins,
etc. One drawback is that they aren't waterproof, or water resistant.
They pretty much let the water in, even in the rain.

I've built a couple of them in an 'open frame', in other words, on a
piece of flat aluminum, or in an L shaped piece of aluminum. They're
sturdy, and work okay. They are totally open to the elements, so
water would go ritght into them.

But then I got to thinking. Is that a problem? The batteries,
circuit and LEDs wouldn't be hurt by a little water if it dries out in
a short period, which is what happens with the open frame. About the
only thing that would corrode a lot would be the switch, because it's
enclosed and the water would gather inside and stay there, rusting the
contacts and other moving parts. I guess I could pack some grease
into the switch, to help keep out the water. But I found that one
cheap flashlight I bought wouldn't turn off, the LEDs would continue
to glow. Well, apparently the grease in the switch was conducting a
bit, causing the LEDs to stay on very dimly. So I'd have to use some
non-conductive grease.

BTW, I'm presuming that the water is like rain water, not water with
salt in it like seawater. Seawater would corrode anything since he
salt would stay there after it dried and humidity would keep it
corroding, unless everything was either stainless steel or bronze.
But I'm not concerned about salt water, only regular rain water.

Just looking for thoughts on this idea.
Click to expand...
I work with projects that are waterproof to depth in salt water. For
some stuff I've used mineral oil in sealed tins with solder-in feed
through caps to use in place of cable glands. Waterproofing to
hundreds of feet is easy that way.

In others I use paraffin wax as used in candle making to waterproof
the circuitry yet leave it easy to repair or modify. For higher
temperatures - the candle making hobbyists add steric acid or chopped
polyethylene to the mix to raise the melting point.

Drive the moisture off by baking the circuitry if possible before
potting.

Casting in epoxy or polyester resin works well where exposure to
temperature and weather are factors in mature designs. Paint protects
the surface from UV, sun, light.

Dipping the circuit boards in poly urethane varnish is great for
milder weatherproofing. Even the new water-based poly varnishes work
well. Heat the circuit and the varnish is sucked into the small
spaces while it sits in the tank for a few minutes and cools.

Switches are reed types where practical. There are various types of
potentiometer nuts with built in rubber seals already on the market
and rubber boots for switches.

Where a design has to be sealed in a container but left open
(applications where a window for a camera, or meters must be visible)
it is important to remove all moisture before sealing so condensate
won't plague you when the temperature drops. I bake out a quantity of
silica gel in a large tin, then let it cool while covered. I
introduce the device to the tin and leave it 24 hours for the
desiccant to soak up the moisture, then seal it using RTV silicone
rubber.

Access to a vacuum oven is nice - pressure cooker adapted to withstand
vacuum and a small vacuum pump will work. Great for sucking out the
air and moisture from a potting project.


-----= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =-----
http://www.newsfeeds.com - The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World!
-----== Over 100,000 Newsgroups - 19 Different Servers! =-----
 
In article <acdisvcrv0k43hndju53f6qd424rqrl9d0@4ax.com>,
R75/5@defaulter.net mentioned...
On Thu, 27 Nov 2003 10:08:40 -0800, Watson A.Name - "Watt Sun, Dark
Remover" <alondra101@hotmail.com> wrote:


I got to thinking about all these projects I've built in Altoids tins,
etc. One drawback is that they aren't waterproof, or water resistant.
They pretty much let the water in, even in the rain.

I've built a couple of them in an 'open frame', in other words, on a
piece of flat aluminum, or in an L shaped piece of aluminum. They're
sturdy, and work okay. They are totally open to the elements, so
water would go ritght into them.

But then I got to thinking. Is that a problem? The batteries,
circuit and LEDs wouldn't be hurt by a little water if it dries out in
a short period, which is what happens with the open frame. About the
only thing that would corrode a lot would be the switch, because it's
enclosed and the water would gather inside and stay there, rusting the
contacts and other moving parts. I guess I could pack some grease
into the switch, to help keep out the water. But I found that one
cheap flashlight I bought wouldn't turn off, the LEDs would continue
to glow. Well, apparently the grease in the switch was conducting a
bit, causing the LEDs to stay on very dimly. So I'd have to use some
non-conductive grease.

BTW, I'm presuming that the water is like rain water, not water with
salt in it like seawater. Seawater would corrode anything since he
salt would stay there after it dried and humidity would keep it
corroding, unless everything was either stainless steel or bronze.
But I'm not concerned about salt water, only regular rain water.

Just looking for thoughts on this idea.

I work with projects that are waterproof to depth in salt water. For
some stuff I've used mineral oil in sealed tins with solder-in feed
through caps to use in place of cable glands. Waterproofing to
hundreds of feet is easy that way.

In others I use paraffin wax as used in candle making to waterproof
the circuitry yet leave it easy to repair or modify. For higher
temperatures - the candle making hobbyists add steric acid or chopped
polyethylene to the mix to raise the melting point.

Drive the moisture off by baking the circuitry if possible before
potting.

Casting in epoxy or polyester resin works well where exposure to
temperature and weather are factors in mature designs. Paint protects
the surface from UV, sun, light.

Dipping the circuit boards in poly urethane varnish is great for
milder weatherproofing. Even the new water-based poly varnishes work
well. Heat the circuit and the varnish is sucked into the small
spaces while it sits in the tank for a few minutes and cools.

Switches are reed types where practical. There are various types of
potentiometer nuts with built in rubber seals already on the market
and rubber boots for switches.

Where a design has to be sealed in a container but left open
(applications where a window for a camera, or meters must be visible)
it is important to remove all moisture before sealing so condensate
won't plague you when the temperature drops. I bake out a quantity of
silica gel in a large tin, then let it cool while covered. I
introduce the device to the tin and leave it 24 hours for the
desiccant to soak up the moisture, then seal it using RTV silicone
rubber.

Access to a vacuum oven is nice - pressure cooker adapted to withstand
vacuum and a small vacuum pump will work. Great for sucking out the
air and moisture from a potting project.
Click to expand...
Thanks for the good advice. I've all but given up on the goop spray,
as I posted in my other followup. I looked at the stuff a short while
ago, and the spot under the circuit board still had not dried, and
when I tipped it, it started to flow out. And the stuff that was
dried was thin, not a thick covering as I had expected, as I've seen
on pliers handles. At this rate, it'll take most of a can to coat
just a small device like this. Most of the spray evaporated as the
solvents dissipated. I think I had much better luck using hot glue,
even tho it can't stand up under heat. Epoxy doesn't stick well to
the metal tins, but RTV does a good job. I may end up using RTV over
everything.

I might add that the standard way to waterproof flashlights is to
enclose them in a metal or plastic tube, and use O-rings at every
joint. This works fine, and is a reasonably cost effective way to do
it. Since the device can have air inside, it might float if it has
enough air. But I wasn't interested in that; just a simple quick way
to waterproof. But this goop spray has wasted too much of my time
already. Thanks again.

--
@@F@r@o@m@@O@r@a@n@g@e@@C@o@u@n@t@y@,@@C@a@l@,@@w@h@e@r@e@@
###Got a Question about ELECTRONICS? Check HERE First:###
http://users.pandora.be/educypedia/electronics/databank.htm
My email address is whitelisted. *All* email sent to it
goes directly to the trash unless you add NOSPAM in the
Subject: line with other stuff. alondra101 <at> hotmail.com
Don't be ripped off by the big book dealers. Go to the URL
that will give you a choice and save you money(up to half).
http://www.everybookstore.com You'll be glad you did!
Just when you thought you had all this figured out, the gov't
changed it: http://physics.nist.gov/cuu/Units/binary.html
@@t@h@e@@a@f@f@l@u@e@n@t@@m@e@e@t@@t@h@e@@E@f@f@l@u@e@n@t@@
 
"Watson A.Name - Watt Sun, Dark Remover" wrote:
[snip]
Click to expand...

I might add that the standard way to waterproof flashlights is to
enclose them in a metal or plastic tube, and use O-rings at every
joint. This works fine, and is a reasonably cost effective way to do
it. Since the device can have air inside, it might float if it has
enough air. But I wasn't interested in that; just a simple quick way
to waterproof. But this goop spray has wasted too much of my time
already. Thanks again.
Click to expand...
It shouldn't be too difficult to find some inexpensive, o-ring sealed
incandescent flashlights, used or new. Just throw out the bulb/reflector
assembly and install an LED array and drive circuitry on a round PCB in
its place. The switch and battery housing are already taken care of for
you.

Here's an interesting project: make a selectable white/red/laser pointer
flashlight. Maybe throw in a xenon strobe while you're at it for MOB
rescue while boating.

--
Paul Hovnanian mailto:paul@Hovnanian.com
note to spammers: a Washington State resident
------------------------------------------------------------------
Do not mold, findle or sputilate.
 
In article <3FCA9211.7C632F6D@Hovnanian.com>, Paul@Hovnanian.com
mentioned...
"Watson A.Name - Watt Sun, Dark Remover" wrote:

[snip]


I might add that the standard way to waterproof flashlights is to
enclose them in a metal or plastic tube, and use O-rings at every
joint. This works fine, and is a reasonably cost effective way to do
it. Since the device can have air inside, it might float if it has
enough air. But I wasn't interested in that; just a simple quick way
to waterproof. But this goop spray has wasted too much of my time
already. Thanks again.

It shouldn't be too difficult to find some inexpensive, o-ring sealed
incandescent flashlights, used or new. Just throw out the bulb/reflector
assembly and install an LED array and drive circuitry on a round PCB in
its place. The switch and battery housing are already taken care of for
you.
Click to expand...
Yeah, been there, done that. I converted at least 8 of the cheapo
four AA cell flashlights with the rubber coated hand grip to hold 3
LEDs.

Here's an interesting project: make a selectable white/red/laser pointer
flashlight. Maybe throw in a xenon strobe while you're at it for MOB
rescue while boating.
Click to expand...
Well, why not throw in an AM/FM radio, etc... ;-)

--
@@F@r@o@m@@O@r@a@n@g@e@@C@o@u@n@t@y@,@@C@a@l@,@@w@h@e@r@e@@
###Got a Question about ELECTRONICS? Check HERE First:###
http://users.pandora.be/educypedia/electronics/databank.htm
My email address is whitelisted. *All* email sent to it
goes directly to the trash unless you add NOSPAM in the
Subject: line with other stuff. alondra101 <at> hotmail.com
Don't be ripped off by the big book dealers. Go to the URL
that will give you a choice and save you money(up to half).
http://www.everybookstore.com You'll be glad you did!
Just when you thought you had all this figured out, the gov't
changed it: http://physics.nist.gov/cuu/Units/binary.html
@@t@h@e@@a@f@f@l@u@e@n@t@@m@e@e@t@@t@h@e@@E@f@f@l@u@e@n@t@@
 
"Watson A.Name - Watt Sun, Dark Remover" <alondra101@hotmail.com> wrote in
message news:MPG.1a34649c4215172a9899b2@news.dslextreme.com...
Here's an interesting project: make a selectable white/red/laser
pointer flashlight. Maybe throw in a xenon strobe while you're at
it for MOB rescue while boating.

Well, why not throw in an AM/FM radio, etc... ;-)
Click to expand...
Don't forget the cheeze grater ;)

Tim

--
"That's for the courts to decide." - Homer Simpson
Website @ http://webpages.charter.net/dawill/tmoranwms
 
In article <vslpndbk3jed1f@corp.supernews.com>, tmoranwms@charter.net
mentioned...
"Watson A.Name - Watt Sun, Dark Remover" <alondra101@hotmail.com> wrote in
message news:MPG.1a34649c4215172a9899b2@news.dslextreme.com...
Here's an interesting project: make a selectable white/red/laser
pointer flashlight. Maybe throw in a xenon strobe while you're at
it for MOB rescue while boating.

Well, why not throw in an AM/FM radio, etc... ;-)

Don't forget the cheeze grater ;)
Click to expand...
Righ.. I gave the open frame light another coat of spray yesterday
morning, and it still wasn't dry in the evening. After all the coats,
I still haven't managed to get it to fill the 2 to 3 mm void between
the circuit board and the brass. I was hoping to at least get the
board bedded in the goop, so that it would stay put. It's not going
anywhere, but I had expected more from this spray goop, and I'm
disappointed. It has not built up a coat that is thick enough to use
for the grips on a pliers handle for example. It would take a week or
more of sprays, with 24 hours wait between them, to build up a
somewhat acceptable thickness. It's a big waste of time, IMHO.

I tried to switch the toggle switch and it was stuck. Apparently the
goop managed to seep inside. I wiggled it around and got it to work,
but it doesn't toggle as good as it did before. But the LEDs light
up, and that's the main concern.

Tim
Click to expand...

--
@@F@r@o@m@@O@r@a@n@g@e@@C@o@u@n@t@y@,@@C@a@l@,@@w@h@e@r@e@@
###Got a Question about ELECTRONICS? Check HERE First:###
http://users.pandora.be/educypedia/electronics/databank.htm
My email address is whitelisted. *All* email sent to it
goes directly to the trash unless you add NOSPAM in the
Subject: line with other stuff. alondra101 <at> hotmail.com
Don't be ripped off by the big book dealers. Go to the URL
that will give you a choice and save you money(up to half).
http://www.everybookstore.com You'll be glad you did!
Just when you thought you had all this figured out, the gov't
changed it: http://physics.nist.gov/cuu/Units/binary.html
@@t@h@e@@a@f@f@l@u@e@n@t@@m@e@e@t@@t@h@e@@E@f@f@l@u@e@n@t@@
 
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