Analog (optical) filters...

B

bitrex

Guest
Before they were built into your phone\'s camera. From a Seattle
Filmwork\'s catalog found among a late relative\'s personal effects.
Winter, 1985:


<https://imgur.com/a/YDakITI>
 
On Fri, 20 Jan 2023 22:00:04 -0500, bitrex <user@example.net> wrote:

Before they were built into your phone\'s camera. From a Seattle
Filmwork\'s catalog found among a late relative\'s personal effects.
Winter, 1985:


https://imgur.com/a/YDakITI

There\'s a story in

https://www.amazon.com/Genius-Life-Science-Richard-Feynman/dp/0679747044

about multilayer optical filters. Feynman was surely an alien life
form.
 
On 2023-01-21 16:49, John Larkin wrote:
On Fri, 20 Jan 2023 22:00:04 -0500, bitrex <user@example.net> wrote:

Before they were built into your phone\'s camera. From a Seattle
Filmwork\'s catalog found among a late relative\'s personal effects.
Winter, 1985:


https://imgur.com/a/YDakITI

There\'s a story in

https://www.amazon.com/Genius-Life-Science-Richard-Feynman/dp/0679747044

about multilayer optical filters. Feynman was surely an alien life
form.
He looks quite human to me, even though he did his own thinking.
What did he have to say about multilayer optical filters?

Jeroen Belleman
 
On Sat, 21 Jan 2023 19:14:03 +0100, Jeroen Belleman
<jeroen@nospam.please> wrote:

On 2023-01-21 16:49, John Larkin wrote:
On Fri, 20 Jan 2023 22:00:04 -0500, bitrex <user@example.net> wrote:

Before they were built into your phone\'s camera. From a Seattle
Filmwork\'s catalog found among a late relative\'s personal effects.
Winter, 1985:


https://imgur.com/a/YDakITI

There\'s a story in

https://www.amazon.com/Genius-Life-Science-Richard-Feynman/dp/0679747044

about multilayer optical filters. Feynman was surely an alien life
form.


He looks quite human to me, even though he did his own thinking.
What did he have to say about multilayer optical filters?

Jeroen Belleman

As I recall, someone suggested something to him in a hallway
encounter. A few days later he delivered a complete theory of
multilayer optical filters.

He was far more intelligent than humans can be. His hobby, as a kid,
was seeking out difficult differential equation to solve.

At 13.5 nm, nothing refracts and nothing reflects... except extreme
multilayer coatings. That makes for interesting mask reducing optics.
 
On 2023-01-21 20:17, John Larkin wrote:
On Sat, 21 Jan 2023 19:14:03 +0100, Jeroen Belleman
jeroen@nospam.please> wrote:

On 2023-01-21 16:49, John Larkin wrote:
On Fri, 20 Jan 2023 22:00:04 -0500, bitrex <user@example.net> wrote:

Before they were built into your phone\'s camera. From a Seattle
Filmwork\'s catalog found among a late relative\'s personal effects.
Winter, 1985:


https://imgur.com/a/YDakITI

There\'s a story in

https://www.amazon.com/Genius-Life-Science-Richard-Feynman/dp/0679747044

about multilayer optical filters. Feynman was surely an alien life
form.


He looks quite human to me, even though he did his own thinking.
What did he have to say about multilayer optical filters?

Jeroen Belleman

As I recall, someone suggested something to him in a hallway
encounter. A few days later he delivered a complete theory of
multilayer optical filters.

He was far more intelligent than humans can be. His hobby, as a kid,
was seeking out difficult differential equation to solve.

At 13.5 nm, nothing refracts and nothing reflects... except extreme
multilayer coatings. That makes for interesting mask reducing optics.

Multi-layer optical filters obey the same laws as consecutive
pieces of coax alternating between two impedances, except that
the working frequency is much lower, and the coax is just a
single pixel.

Jeroen Belleman
 
Jeroen Belleman wrote:
On 2023-01-21 20:17, John Larkin wrote:
On Sat, 21 Jan 2023 19:14:03 +0100, Jeroen Belleman
jeroen@nospam.please> wrote:

On 2023-01-21 16:49, John Larkin wrote:
On Fri, 20 Jan 2023 22:00:04 -0500, bitrex <user@example.net> wrote:

Before they were built into your phone\'s camera. From a Seattle
Filmwork\'s catalog found among a late relative\'s personal effects.
Winter, 1985:


https://imgur.com/a/YDakITI

There\'s a story in

https://www.amazon.com/Genius-Life-Science-Richard-Feynman/dp/0679747044


about multilayer optical filters. Feynman was surely an alien life
form.


He looks quite human to me, even though he did his own thinking.
What did he have to say about multilayer optical filters?

Jeroen Belleman

As I recall, someone suggested something to him in a hallway
encounter. A few days later he delivered a complete theory of
multilayer optical filters.

He was far more intelligent than humans can be. His hobby, as a kid,
was seeking out difficult differential equation to solve.

At 13.5 nm, nothing refracts and nothing reflects... except extreme
multilayer coatings. That makes for interesting mask reducing optics.


Multi-layer optical filters obey the same laws as consecutive
pieces of coax alternating between two impedances, except that
the working frequency is much lower, and the coax is just a
single pixel.

Jeroen Belleman

And optical coatings have to work at different angles of incidence and
two polarization states.

Cheers

Phil Hobbs




--
Dr Philip C D Hobbs
Principal Consultant
ElectroOptical Innovations LLC / Hobbs ElectroOptics
Optics, Electro-optics, Photonics, Analog Electronics
Briarcliff Manor NY 10510

http://electrooptical.net
http://hobbs-eo.com
 
On 21/01/2023 03:00, bitrex wrote:
Before they were built into your phone\'s camera. From a Seattle
Filmwork\'s catalog found among a late relative\'s personal effects.
Winter, 1985:


https://imgur.com/a/YDakITI

Analogue traditional dye and gelatine optical filters are still
available to professional photographers today. eg

https://www.srb-photographic.co.uk/square-filters-1222-c.asp

Edmund Scientific have an even wider range for filters for science and
industry including dopes glasses and dichroic filters (for a price).

https://www.edmundoptics.co.uk/c/optical-filters/610/

--
Regards,
Martin Brown
 
On Sat, 21 Jan 2023 07:49:54 -0800, John Larkin
<jlarkin@highlandSNIPMEtechnology.com> wrote:

On Fri, 20 Jan 2023 22:00:04 -0500, bitrex <user@example.net> wrote:

Before they were built into your phone\'s camera. From a Seattle
Filmwork\'s catalog found among a late relative\'s personal effects.
Winter, 1985:


https://imgur.com/a/YDakITI

There\'s a story in

https://www.amazon.com/Genius-Life-Science-Richard-Feynman/dp/0679747044

about multilayer optical filters. Feynman was surely an alien life
form.

A simple fader is usefull in getting relative lux/power measurements
for emitters, while keeping detector in linear range.

RL
 
On Mon, 23 Jan 2023 11:26:02 +0000, Martin Brown
<\'\'\'newspam\'\'\'@nonad.co.uk> wrote:

On 21/01/2023 03:00, bitrex wrote:
Before they were built into your phone\'s camera. From a Seattle
Filmwork\'s catalog found among a late relative\'s personal effects.
Winter, 1985:


https://imgur.com/a/YDakITI

Analogue traditional dye and gelatine optical filters are still
available to professional photographers today. eg

https://www.srb-photographic.co.uk/square-filters-1222-c.asp

Is there any reason to use a filter in digital photography? Imager
chip pixels have extreme dynamic range and one can digitally
post-process an image.
 
On 23/01/2023 15:23, John Larkin wrote:
On Mon, 23 Jan 2023 11:26:02 +0000, Martin Brown
\'\'\'newspam\'\'\'@nonad.co.uk> wrote:

On 21/01/2023 03:00, bitrex wrote:
Before they were built into your phone\'s camera. From a Seattle
Filmwork\'s catalog found among a late relative\'s personal effects.
Winter, 1985:


https://imgur.com/a/YDakITI

Analogue traditional dye and gelatine optical filters are still
available to professional photographers today. eg

https://www.srb-photographic.co.uk/square-filters-1222-c.asp

Is there any reason to use a filter in digital photography? Imager
chip pixels have extreme dynamic range and one can digitally
post-process an image.

Yes. The most common reason would be to photograph in some narrow
wavelength band to isolate particular elements. Scientific imaging
tends to be done with monochrome CCDs and very well characterised glass
filters in astronomy and fluorescence microscopy for example.

https://astrobackyard.com/narrowband-imaging/

Most colour Hubble shots are in SII, Halpha, OIII narrow band as R,G,B.

You can get a roughly plausible colour image from Halpha to R and OIII
496nm to a turquoise green using two bandpass filters.

Single shot colour imaging is popular with hobby astronomers, but even
there many push the technique using narrowband filters (which helps cut
out a lot of the light pollution).

In discussions about lights near observatories they offered to use
yellow LEDs as an alternative to LPS - missing the point that it wasn\'t
the yellow light so much as the very narrow waveband it pollutes (and
sodium is so ubiquitous there is always some sky glow at sodium D lines.

--
Regards,
Martin Brown
 
On a sunny day (Mon, 23 Jan 2023 07:23:42 -0800) it happened John Larkin
<jlarkin@highlandSNIPMEtechnology.com> wrote in
<8f9tsh90kbiualvhbqrqee5dd3hfq0fs01@4ax.com>:

On Mon, 23 Jan 2023 11:26:02 +0000, Martin Brown
\'\'\'newspam\'\'\'@nonad.co.uk> wrote:

On 21/01/2023 03:00, bitrex wrote:
Before they were built into your phone\'s camera. From a Seattle
Filmwork\'s catalog found among a late relative\'s personal effects.
Winter, 1985:


https://imgur.com/a/YDakITI

Analogue traditional dye and gelatine optical filters are still
available to professional photographers today. eg

https://www.srb-photographic.co.uk/square-filters-1222-c.asp


Is there any reason to use a filter in digital photography? Imager
chip pixels have extreme dynamic range and one can digitally
post-process an image.

Most webcams have infrared filters, you can remove those with some effort
to see IR:
https://www.space.com/37333-webcam-hack-to-see-infrared-how-to-video.html

Color filters are often used in spotlights:
https://www.amazon.com/Sakolla-Overlays-Transparency-Correction-Assorted/dp/B0771LTPFN
 
On Mon, 23 Jan 2023 16:35:40 +0000, Martin Brown
<\'\'\'newspam\'\'\'@nonad.co.uk> wrote:

On 23/01/2023 15:23, John Larkin wrote:
On Mon, 23 Jan 2023 11:26:02 +0000, Martin Brown
\'\'\'newspam\'\'\'@nonad.co.uk> wrote:

On 21/01/2023 03:00, bitrex wrote:
Before they were built into your phone\'s camera. From a Seattle
Filmwork\'s catalog found among a late relative\'s personal effects.
Winter, 1985:


https://imgur.com/a/YDakITI

Analogue traditional dye and gelatine optical filters are still
available to professional photographers today. eg

https://www.srb-photographic.co.uk/square-filters-1222-c.asp

Is there any reason to use a filter in digital photography? Imager
chip pixels have extreme dynamic range and one can digitally
post-process an image.

Yes. The most common reason would be to photograph in some narrow
wavelength band to isolate particular elements. Scientific imaging
tends to be done with monochrome CCDs and very well characterised glass
filters in astronomy and fluorescence microscopy for example.

https://astrobackyard.com/narrowband-imaging/

Most colour Hubble shots are in SII, Halpha, OIII narrow band as R,G,B.

You can get a roughly plausible colour image from Halpha to R and OIII
496nm to a turquoise green using two bandpass filters.

Single shot colour imaging is popular with hobby astronomers, but even
there many push the technique using narrowband filters (which helps cut
out a lot of the light pollution).

In discussions about lights near observatories they offered to use
yellow LEDs as an alternative to LPS - missing the point that it wasn\'t
the yellow light so much as the very narrow waveband it pollutes (and
sodium is so ubiquitous there is always some sky glow at sodium D lines.

I was thinking about the \"traditional dye and gelatine optical
filters\" used by \"professional photographers\", not high-Q optical
filters used by scientists. Wedding pictures and stock images can be
post-processed for color and effects.
 
On 1/23/2023 6:26 AM, Martin Brown wrote:
On 21/01/2023 03:00, bitrex wrote:
Before they were built into your phone\'s camera. From a Seattle
Filmwork\'s catalog found among a late relative\'s personal effects.
Winter, 1985:


https://imgur.com/a/YDakITI

Analogue traditional dye and gelatine optical filters are still
available to professional photographers today. eg

https://www.srb-photographic.co.uk/square-filters-1222-c.asp

Edmund Scientific have an even wider range for filters for science and
industry including dopes glasses and dichroic filters (for a price).

https://www.edmundoptics.co.uk/c/optical-filters/610/

$40 for the \"Fog\" filter in 1985 dollars! Highway robbery!
 
John Larkin wrote:
On Mon, 23 Jan 2023 11:26:02 +0000, Martin Brown
\'\'\'newspam\'\'\'@nonad.co.uk> wrote:

On 21/01/2023 03:00, bitrex wrote:
Before they were built into your phone\'s camera. From a Seattle
Filmwork\'s catalog found among a late relative\'s personal
effects. Winter, 1985:


https://imgur.com/a/YDakITI

Analogue traditional dye and gelatine optical filters are still
available to professional photographers today. eg

https://www.srb-photographic.co.uk/square-filters-1222-c.asp


Is there any reason to use a filter in digital photography?

Sure, many reasons, some of which are similar to why you use analog
filters in electronics.

-- Eliminating large unwanted signals (e.g. the pump light in a \"black
light\" image)

-- Glint elimination using linear or circular polarizers

-- Dynamic range reduction by emphasizing dimmer spectral regions.

Imager chip pixels have extreme dynamic range and one can digitally
post-process an image.

\"Extreme dynamic range\", e.g. 50k electrons full-well. That\'s a shot
noise limited SNR of 47 dB--enough for a good image, certainly, but not
for a good image plus a lot of reserve for high contrast situations.

Postprocessing is fine, but it won\'t fix inadequate SNR or dynamic range.

Cheers

Phil Hobbs

--
Dr Philip C D Hobbs
Principal Consultant
ElectroOptical Innovations LLC / Hobbs ElectroOptics
Optics, Electro-optics, Photonics, Analog Electronics
Briarcliff Manor NY 10510

http://electrooptical.net
http://hobbs-eo.com
 
On 23/01/2023 19:45, John Larkin wrote:

I was thinking about the \"traditional dye and gelatine optical
filters\" used by \"professional photographers\", not high-Q optical
filters used by scientists. Wedding pictures and stock images can be
post-processed for color and effects.

Commercial photographers still use ND3 to ND5 filters even today to get
the motion blur effects on waterfalls and sea scapes. It could be done
by taking loads of shots and combining them in post processing.

There are some effects that are easier to do with a filter in front of
the lens especially if they are using large cameras and sheet film.

The other one is graduated density filters for managing bright skies.
You can do it with digital HDR but the image can look very artificial.


--
Martin Brown
 

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