Ampex tape problem

[root]

I have recently been converting my RTR tapes to mp3
and have found a problem with tapes made by Ampex
for Philips or London, or under the Ampex name.
These tapes have a charcoal colored oxide. The problem
is the tapes chatter against the heads and emit
a loud screech which carries over into the output
signal. These tapes haven't been played in almost
40 years. None of the brown oxide tapes made by
other mfgs have a problem.

I have tried respooling the tapes and even tried
coating my heads with a silicone lubricant but
neither works.

I wonder if anyone has a solution. Most of
these tapes are unique.

TIA

 

[Adrian C]

root wrote:

I have recently been converting my RTR tapes to mp3
and have found a problem with tapes made by Ampex
for Philips or London, or under the Ampex name.
These tapes have a charcoal colored oxide. The problem
is the tapes chatter against the heads and emit
a loud screech which carries over into the output
signal. These tapes haven't been played in almost
40 years. None of the brown oxide tapes made by
other mfgs have a problem.

I have tried respooling the tapes and even tried
coating my heads with a silicone lubricant but
neither works.

I wonder if anyone has a solution. Most of
these tapes are unique.

TIA

Try here for info
http://richardhess.com/notes/formats/magnetic-media/magnetic-tapes/analog-audio/degrading-tapes/

--
Adrian C

 

[root]

root <NoEMail@home.org> wrote:

I have recently been converting my RTR tapes to mp3
and have found a problem with tapes made by Ampex
for Philips or London, or under the Ampex name.
These tapes have a charcoal colored oxide. The problem
is the tapes chatter against the heads and emit
a loud screech which carries over into the output
signal. These tapes haven't been played in almost
40 years. None of the brown oxide tapes made by
other mfgs have a problem.

I have tried respooling the tapes and even tried
coating my heads with a silicone lubricant but
neither works.

I wonder if anyone has a solution. Most of
these tapes are unique.

TIA

For this newsgroup I should have added this:
The recorder I use sat for over 30 years without
use. I powered it up and it worked perfectly,
albeit with a dusty smell. The unit is a
Pioneer RT-1011L, direct drive. Well made.

 

On Apr 24, 6:32 am, root <NoEM...@home.org> wrote:

I have recently been converting my RTR tapes to mp3
and have found a problem with tapes made by Ampex
for Philips or London, or under the Ampex name.
These tapes have a charcoal colored oxide. The problem
is the tapes chatter against the heads and emit
a loud screech which carries over into the output
signal. These tapes haven't been played in almost
40 years. None of the brown oxide tapes made by
other mfgs have a problem.

I have tried respooling the tapes and even tried
coating my heads with a silicone lubricant but
neither works.

I wonder if anyone has a solution. Most of
these tapes are unique.

TIA

From the liner notes of Boston's third album: (see
http://www.thirdstage.ca/boston/content/view/99/49/ )

Sticky tape

Did you know that when some recording tape sits for a long time, it
gets sticky? Neither did I. How would you feel if you took out your
four-year old, one of a kind mix of "Cool The Engines," (with no
safety copy) and halfway through the song, the reels stop dead with a
bang because your tape has become glued to the guides and must be
peeled off the playback head like adhesive tape. The fix: spread a
suspicious looking silicon concoction onto the tape as it runs by, and
try not to let the enormous beads of sweat dripping from your forehead
get your capstan rusty.

 

On Apr 24, 10:10 am, mstork...@yahoo.com wrote:

On Apr 24, 6:32 am, root <NoEM...@home.org> wrote:





I have recently been converting my RTR tapes to mp3
and have found a problem with tapes made by Ampex
for Philips or London, or under the Ampex name.
These tapes have a charcoal colored oxide. The problem
is the tapes chatter against the heads and emit
a loud screech which carries over into the output
signal. These tapes haven't been played in almost
40 years. None of the brown oxide tapes made by
other mfgs have a problem.

I have tried respooling the tapes and even tried
coating my heads with a silicone lubricant but
neither works.

I wonder if anyone has a solution. Most of
these tapes are unique.

TIA

From the liner notes of Boston's third album: (seehttp://www.thirdstage.ca/boston/content/view/99/49/)

Sticky tape

Did you know that when some recording tape sits for a long time, it
gets sticky?  Neither did I.  How would you feel if you took out your
four-year old, one of a kind mix of "Cool The Engines," (with no
safety copy) and halfway through the song, the reels stop dead with a
bang because your tape has become glued to the guides and must be
peeled off the playback head like adhesive tape.  The fix: spread a
suspicious looking silicon concoction onto the tape as it runs by, and
try not to let the enormous beads of sweat dripping from your forehead
get your capstan rusty.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Not so.....don't do this. The tape needs to be baked to drive the
adhesive back where it belongs.
Read this:
http://www.tangible-technology.com/tape/baking1.html

I used to use a cheap food dehydrator for this and it works great.

 

[Eeyore]

root wrote:

I have recently been converting my RTR tapes to mp3
and have found a problem with tapes made by Ampex
for Philips or London, or under the Ampex name.
These tapes have a charcoal colored oxide. The problem
is the tapes chatter against the heads and emit
a loud screech which carries over into the output
signal. These tapes haven't been played in almost
40 years. None of the brown oxide tapes made by
other mfgs have a problem.

I have tried respooling the tapes and even tried
coating my heads with a silicone lubricant but
neither works.

I wonder if anyone has a solution. Most of
these tapes are unique.

Re-post in rec.audio.pro. You have classic polyurethane binder problems.
Don't attempt to play those tapes again until you take expert advice,
and you'll get it there.

Graham

 

[Eeyore]

Adrian C wrote:

root wrote:
I have recently been converting my RTR tapes to mp3
and have found a problem with tapes made by Ampex
for Philips or London, or under the Ampex name.
These tapes have a charcoal colored oxide. The problem
is the tapes chatter against the heads and emit
a loud screech which carries over into the output
signal. These tapes haven't been played in almost
40 years. None of the brown oxide tapes made by
other mfgs have a problem.

I have tried respooling the tapes and even tried
coating my heads with a silicone lubricant but
neither works.

I wonder if anyone has a solution. Most of
these tapes are unique.

TIA

Try here for info
http://richardhess.com/notes/formats/magnetic-media/magnetic-tapes/analog-audio/degrading-tapes/

Didn't read the link but he needs rec.audio.pro if he wants successful recovery.

Graham

 

[Eeyore]

root wrote:

root <NoEMail@home.org> wrote:
I have recently been converting my RTR tapes to mp3
and have found a problem with tapes made by Ampex
for Philips or London, or under the Ampex name.
These tapes have a charcoal colored oxide. The problem
is the tapes chatter against the heads and emit
a loud screech which carries over into the output
signal. These tapes haven't been played in almost
40 years. None of the brown oxide tapes made by
other mfgs have a problem.

I have tried respooling the tapes and even tried
coating my heads with a silicone lubricant but
neither works.

I wonder if anyone has a solution. Most of
these tapes are unique.

TIA

For this newsgroup I should have added this:
The recorder I use sat for over 30 years without
use. I powered it up and it worked perfectly,
albeit with a dusty smell. The unit is a
Pioneer RT-1011L, direct drive. Well made.

Irrelevant. It was the tape binder formulation. Re-post as I suggested.
Others are more expert at this than me.

Graham

 

[Eeyore]

mstorkamp@yahoo.com wrote:

On Apr 24, 6:32 am, root <NoEM...@home.org> wrote:
I have recently been converting my RTR tapes to mp3
and have found a problem with tapes made by Ampex
for Philips or London, or under the Ampex name.
These tapes have a charcoal colored oxide. The problem
is the tapes chatter against the heads and emit
a loud screech which carries over into the output
signal. These tapes haven't been played in almost
40 years. None of the brown oxide tapes made by
other mfgs have a problem.

I have tried respooling the tapes and even tried
coating my heads with a silicone lubricant but
neither works.

I wonder if anyone has a solution. Most of
these tapes are unique.

TIA

From the liner notes of Boston's third album: (see
http://www.thirdstage.ca/boston/content/view/99/49/ )

Sticky tape

It is exactly that and you have to be VERY careful fixing it.

Graham

 

[Eeyore]

boardjunkie@techie.com wrote:

The tape needs to be baked to drive the adhesive back where it belongs.

NO, it's actually moisture in the binder.

Go to the rec.audio.pro group.

Graham

 

On Apr 24, 4:08 pm, Eeyore <rabbitsfriendsandrelati...@hotmail.com>
wrote:

boardjun...@techie.com wrote:
The tape needs to be baked to drive the adhesive back where it belongs.

NO, it's actually moisture in the binder.

Go to the rec.audio.pro group.

Graham

Well if you want to get technical, yea. But the moisture causes the
adhesive to migrate when its absorbed and thats where the whole
problem comes from. Hygroscopic is the technical term for how the tape
binder has behaved. Read the Ciletti article....the remedy is there.
I've done it a bazillion times with 3M 226, Ampex 406/456, etc.

 

On Apr 24, 1:08 pm, Eeyore <rabbitsfriendsandrelati...@hotmail.com>
wrote:

boardjun...@techie.com wrote:
The tape needs to be baked to drive the adhesive back where it
belongs.

NO, it's actually moisture in the binder.

Go to the rec.audio.pro group.

Graham

I work at a Hollywood video facility where we transfer old - Really
OLD (1969) - 2" quadruplex video tape on an Ampex AVR-3. We also have
a commercial food dehydrator and have baked hundreds of rolls of quad
tape, 2" 16 track audio, 1/2" 4 track audio, 1/4" half track audio,
PCM3324 digital tapes, some VHS and U-Matic tapes. Not a single one
has been ruined so far and ALL have been salvaged. The dehydrator we
use has vey good temperature control and circulation fans so we don't
have to 'rotate/flip' them as tangible technology recommends. We
started out running 8 hours on the 2" and most rolls were OK at that
but a few stubborn tapes needed a second run through the cooker. We
now just run 12 hours at 135 F for everything and almost nothing needs
more time. The dehydrator is also handy for drying out electronics
that have gotten spills. My TI calculator got Coke spilled on it. I
opened it up and washed it with water, cooked it for 2 hours at 115 F,
re-assembled and it's good as new. I would NOT use an oven for this
and certainly NOT a gas over as water vapor is a combustion by-product
which is what the problem is to begin with but with the right
equipment, I have no qualms at all about baking tapes.

G˛

 

On Apr 25, 12:48 am, stratu...@yahoo.com wrote:
.. The dehydrator is also handy for drying out electronics

that have gotten spills. My TI calculator got Coke spilled on it. I
opened it up and washed it with water, cooked it for 2 hours at 115 F,
re-assembled and it's good as new.

I've had to bake a couple cell phones that had gotten wet.....did the
trick.

I would NOT use an oven for this and certainly NOT a gas over as water vapor is a combustion by-product
which is what the problem is to begin with but with the right
equipment, I have no qualms at all about baking tapes.

G˛

No regular ovens, but a *convection* oven is perfect as long as it can
regulate down to the right temp. The dehydrator is actually more
efficeint as far as power used to operate.

 

[bg]

root wrote in message ...

root <NoEMail@home.org> wrote:
I have recently been converting my RTR tapes to mp3
and have found a problem with tapes made by Ampex
for Philips or London, or under the Ampex name.
These tapes have a charcoal colored oxide. The problem
is the tapes chatter against the heads and emit
a loud screech which carries over into the output
signal. These tapes haven't been played in almost
40 years. None of the brown oxide tapes made by
other mfgs have a problem.

I have tried respooling the tapes and even tried
coating my heads with a silicone lubricant but
neither works.

I wonder if anyone has a solution. Most of
these tapes are unique.

TIA

For this newsgroup I should have added this:
The recorder I use sat for over 30 years without
use. I powered it up and it worked perfectly,
albeit with a dusty smell. The unit is a
Pioneer RT-1011L, direct drive. Well made.

As stratus46 posted below, bake the tape. I've never had luck doing it this
way but probably because I didn't bake it long enough. The sticky goo left
on the guides and heads is a real pisser to get off. It will usually cause
the tape to drag. Rather than alcohol, use acetone, but be carefull to keep
it off of anything other than metal.
bg

 

[bg]

stratus46@yahoo.com wrote in message
<65052019-15d9-4db9-a514-ba9b351e0296@f1g2000prb.googlegroups.com>...
On Apr 25, 1:23 pm, "bg" <b...@nospam.com> wrote:

root wrote in message ...
root <NoEM...@home.org> wrote:
I have recently been converting my RTR tapes to mp3
and have found a problem with tapes made by Ampex
for Philips or London, or under the Ampex name.
These tapes have a charcoal colored oxide. The problem
is the tapes chatter against the heads and emit
a loud screech which carries over into the output
signal. These tapes haven't been played in almost
40 years. None of the brown oxide tapes made by
other mfgs have a problem.

I have tried respooling the tapes and even tried
coating my heads with a silicone lubricant but
neither works.

I wonder if anyone has a solution. Most of
these tapes are unique.

TIA

For this newsgroup I should have added this:
The recorder I use sat for over 30 years without
use. I powered it up and it worked perfectly,
albeit with a dusty smell. The unit is a
Pioneer RT-1011L, direct drive. Well made.

As stratus46 posted below, bake the tape. I've never had luck doing
it this
way but probably because I didn't bake it long enough. The sticky
goo left
on the guides and heads is a real pisser to get off. It will
usually cause
the tape to drag. Rather than alcohol, use acetone, but be carefull
to keep
it off of anything other than metal.
bg

The official head / guide cleaner recommended by Ampex is Xylene. On
their 1" SMPTE 'C' machines they specifically say to avoid alcohol as
it "leaves a persistent film". I have found this to be true. Be very
careful with Xylene as it will destroy some plastics - styrenes in
particular - and paints. Being a close cousin of toluene, it has a
strong chemical odor and may set some people off figuratively and
literally but it works outstandingly well.

G˛
Tried it -
I prefer acetone because it evaporates faster. You can also use it rather
dry on the cotton swab or cloth so there is less chance of it running where
it is not wanted. It also does a great job of restoring the surface of
rubber pinch rollers and belts.

 

On Apr 25, 1:23 pm, "bg" <b...@nospam.com> wrote:

root wrote in message ...
root <NoEM...@home.org> wrote:
I have recently been converting my RTR tapes to mp3
and have found a problem with tapes made by Ampex
for Philips or London, or under the Ampex name.
These tapes have a charcoal colored oxide. The problem
is the tapes chatter against the heads and emit
a loud screech which carries over into the output
signal. These tapes haven't been played in almost
40 years. None of the brown oxide tapes made by
other mfgs have a problem.

I have tried respooling the tapes and even tried
coating my heads with a silicone lubricant but
neither works.

I wonder if anyone has a solution. Most of
these tapes are unique.

TIA

For this newsgroup I should have added this:
The recorder I use sat for over 30 years without
use. I powered it up and it worked perfectly,
albeit with a dusty smell. The unit is a
Pioneer RT-1011L, direct drive. Well made.

As stratus46 posted below, bake the tape. I've never had luck doing
it this
way but probably because I didn't bake it long enough. The sticky
goo left
on the guides and heads is a real pisser to get off. It will
usually cause
the tape to drag. Rather than alcohol, use acetone, but be carefull
to keep
it off of anything other than metal.
bg

The official head / guide cleaner recommended by Ampex is Xylene. On
their 1" SMPTE 'C' machines they specifically say to avoid alcohol as
it "leaves a persistent film". I have found this to be true. Be very
careful with Xylene as it will destroy some plastics - styrenes in
particular - and paints. Being a close cousin of toluene, it has a
strong chemical odor and may set some people off figuratively and
literally but it works outstandingly well.

G˛

 

[Meat Plow]

On Fri, 24 Apr 2009 11:32:47 GMT, root <NoEMail@home.org>wrote:

I have recently been converting my RTR tapes to mp3
and have found a problem with tapes made by Ampex
for Philips or London, or under the Ampex name.
These tapes have a charcoal colored oxide. The problem
is the tapes chatter against the heads and emit
a loud screech which carries over into the output
signal. These tapes haven't been played in almost
40 years. None of the brown oxide tapes made by
other mfgs have a problem.

I have tried respooling the tapes and even tried
coating my heads with a silicone lubricant but
neither works.

I wonder if anyone has a solution. Most of
these tapes are unique.

TIA

As a non-invasive fix try cleaning the heads, capstan and guides with
xylene but not rubber or plastic it will heat that stuff alive.
Function the unit in a cool low humidity room. If it works get your
music off those old tapes immediately.

I've recently done this with some 30 year old 3M tapes on a Techniques
R-R.

 

[William Sommerwerck]

These tapes have a charcoal colored oxide.

This isn't oxide, it's the back coating. This is a chronic problem with
back-coated tapes. Had anyone known this would happen, it's unlikely the
tape manufacturers would used it. I lost some valuable, unique tapes because
the back coating went bad.

 

[Bob Larter]

bg wrote:

stratus46@yahoo.com wrote in message
65052019-15d9-4db9-a514-ba9b351e0296@f1g2000prb.googlegroups.com>...
On Apr 25, 1:23 pm, "bg" <b...@nospam.com> wrote:
root wrote in message ...
root <NoEM...@home.org> wrote:
I have recently been converting my RTR tapes to mp3
and have found a problem with tapes made by Ampex
for Philips or London, or under the Ampex name.
These tapes have a charcoal colored oxide. The problem
is the tapes chatter against the heads and emit
a loud screech which carries over into the output
signal. These tapes haven't been played in almost
40 years. None of the brown oxide tapes made by
other mfgs have a problem.
I have tried respooling the tapes and even tried
coating my heads with a silicone lubricant but
neither works.
I wonder if anyone has a solution. Most of
these tapes are unique.
TIA
For this newsgroup I should have added this:
The recorder I use sat for over 30 years without
use. I powered it up and it worked perfectly,
albeit with a dusty smell. The unit is a
Pioneer RT-1011L, direct drive. Well made.
As stratus46 posted below, bake the tape. I've never had luck doing
it this
way but probably because I didn't bake it long enough. The sticky
goo left
on the guides and heads is a real pisser to get off. It will
usually cause
the tape to drag. Rather than alcohol, use acetone, but be carefull
to keep
it off of anything other than metal.
bg

The official head / guide cleaner recommended by Ampex is Xylene. On
their 1" SMPTE 'C' machines they specifically say to avoid alcohol as
it "leaves a persistent film". I have found this to be true. Be very
careful with Xylene as it will destroy some plastics - styrenes in
particular - and paints. Being a close cousin of toluene, it has a
strong chemical odor and may set some people off figuratively and
literally but it works outstandingly well.

G˛
Tried it -
I prefer acetone because it evaporates faster. You can also use it rather
dry on the cotton swab or cloth so there is less chance of it running where
it is not wanted. It also does a great job of restoring the surface of
rubber pinch rollers and belts.

Yep. I use acetone to renew the surface of paper transport rollers in
laser printer & faxes. It works very well.

--
W
. | ,. w , "Some people are alive only because
\|/ \|/ it is illegal to kill them." Perna condita delenda est
---^----^---------------------------------------------------------------