Aircon dims lights...Damaging?

[Amhir Sohail]

HI Guys,

I've had a ducted reverse cycle installed (single phase) and everytime
the compressor kicks in the lights flicker quickly. I'm thinking this
can't be good for my audio and computer equipment. The aircon has a
soft starter installed.

As my neighbours lights don't dim when this happens, its got to be
either the cable to my house or something inside it.

Where is the weakness in this link and is this damaging anything in
the long run?

One other question, if it is prudent to use a UPS, what will handle my
5x80w channel Sony Amp? It lists a power consumption of 155 watts, is
this peak?

Thanks

Jac

 

On 7 Dec 2003 23:06:30 -0800, amhirsohail@yahoo.com.au (Amhir Sohail)
wrote:

HI Guys,

I've had a ducted reverse cycle installed (single phase) and everytime
the compressor kicks in the lights flicker quickly. I'm thinking this
can't be good for my audio and computer equipment. The aircon has a
soft starter installed.

As my neighbours lights don't dim when this happens, its got to be
either the cable to my house or something inside it.

Your neighbours are probably on a different phase.

Where is the weakness in this link and is this damaging anything in
the long run?

From the pole on the street to your switchboard.

Larger submains from where the incoming cable from the pole terminates
to the meter and/or switchboard could help. If the house has been
built in the last few years these cable could be reduced in size if
there was little load in the house, such as when gas is available.
Come along and add an air-con unit and they're no longer suitable.

 

[James]

snip

One other question, if it is prudent to use a UPS, what will handle my
5x80w channel Sony Amp? It lists a power consumption of 155 watts, is
this peak?

Thanks

Jac

G'day

How big is the aircon motor? How big and what size power supply do you
have to your house? How much do the lights flicker? When DOL starting
a motor over a couple kW in a home you will almost always notice some
flicker of the lights. Soft starting should eliminate most of this but
it depends on what type.

If your lights give a quick pulse (one that you would miss if you
blinked your eyes), then that shouldn't hurt too much.

If they lights go right out or close to doing so, then you may have a
serious problem somewhere which needs looking at. Get it looked at
fast if this is the case.

The aircons here flicker the lights when they start, but so far
nothing seems to have been damaged because of it. If you have 3 phase
power it may be worth checking that you have your load well balanced.

If you are really concerned by whats happening, get it looked at by a
competent person, then another if you aren't happy with their
response.

cheers
James

 

[Rod Speed]

Amhir Sohail <amhirsohail@yahoo.com.au> wrote in message news:7c9b2832.0312072306.7e6e1704@posting.google.com...

I've had a ducted reverse cycle installed (single phase) and
everytime the compressor kicks in the lights flicker quickly. I'm
thinking this can't be good for my audio and computer equipment.

Shouldnt do it any harm.

The aircon has a soft starter installed.

As my neighbours lights don't dim when this
happens, its got to be either the cable to my house

Yep, very likely. Those are a substantial part
of the load that the house presents to the mains,
and the leadin is unlikely to be adequate now.

or something inside it.

Not likely if it was installed by other than some
bodgy electrician doing it at the lowest price.

Where is the weakness in this link

Most likely the guage of wire to the pole etc.

and is this damaging anything in the long run?

Nope, its just a cosmetic effect.

One other question, if it is prudent to use a UPS,
what will handle my 5x80w channel Sony Amp? It
lists a power consumption of 155 watts, is this peak?

Worst, yes.

 

[Amhir Sohail]

Thanks guys,

It is momentary so I won't panic.

I Appreciate, as always, your responses.

Jac


amhirsohail@yahoo.com.au (Amhir Sohail) wrote in message news:<7c9b2832.0312072306.7e6e1704@posting.google.com>...

HI Guys,

I've had a ducted reverse cycle installed (single phase) and everytime
the compressor kicks in the lights flicker quickly. I'm thinking this
can't be good for my audio and computer equipment. The aircon has a
soft starter installed.

As my neighbours lights don't dim when this happens, its got to be
either the cable to my house or something inside it.

Where is the weakness in this link and is this damaging anything in
the long run?

One other question, if it is prudent to use a UPS, what will handle my
5x80w channel Sony Amp? It lists a power consumption of 155 watts, is
this peak?

Thanks

Jac

 

[Bob M]

Hi there,

I had a similar problem in my house, but the lights would dim when any
motor started (furnace blower, fridge, freezer, etc.) The worse effect
was observed when my air compressor started. The symptom I experienced
was that lights on the same phase as the motor dimmed, while lights on
the opposite phase got brighter. I went through many incandescent
lights bulbs as a result. Measurements conducted on the main buss at
the fuse box confirmed that as load was added to one phase, the
voltage rose on the opposite phase, i.e. the neutral wire from the
pole transformer could not handle the current. My house was physically
the farthest away from the pole transformer (i.e. at the end of the
line).

I called the Electricity supplier (in Ontario Canada, its called Hydro
One) and had them come out and make measurements. The technician
measured 4.7 volts of drop between the pole transformer and my fuse
box main buss with a 10.2 amp load. I pointed out to him that my panel
was rated at 100 amps and thus the voltage would be unacceptably low
should I ever draw 100 amps. His reply demonstrated his lack of
knowledge in that he said it would only drop a couple more volts with
a 100 amp load. Guess he never heard of ohm's law.

Anyways, after he left, I called Hydro One and asked to talk to an
Engineer. After 3 call backs from "customer agents", a real network
design engineer returned my call. I explained what his tech had
measured and asked if this was acceptable. His reply was "from the
surface, no, but leave it with me and I will get back to you".

4 days later he knocked on my door and confirmed that all the
distribution wiring out on the street poles was not "up to snuff" and
required replacing. About 3 months later, they began replacing all the
distribution wiring in my neighbourhood (my street was first on the
list!). No more issues since.

It might behove you to try and track down why the dimming is
occurring. The additional load of the air con could possibly cause a
marginal situation to eventually fail. This could possibly get ugly,
depending on what the real problem is and what the resultant failure
turns out to be. I do not regret investing the time I did into
resolving my issue. My neighbours are pleased as well. If you are not
technical, get someone who is to help you. I'm sure a couple of beers
(after the troubleshooting is complete!) as payment is all it would
take to figure out what/where the issue is.

Some possible causes:

1) Pole transformer is over loaded (not very likely as everyone of
your neigbours on the same transformer would be experiencing the same
propblem).
2) Street distribution wiring is too light and cannot handle the
current (as in my case).
3) Bad connection in the distribution wiring (crimp connectors
corroding, meter connection loose, etc.).
4) Bad/loose connection in your mains panel (mains wiring, buss
connection, circuit breaker or fuse connection, etc. -my sister's 100
amp main fuse connection on 1 phase went up in smoke due to poor
torquing of the connections- had to replace the entire panel as parts
for the thing were no longer availible- lots of $$ as a result).

Bad/loose connections will usually generate heat and show a
discolouration as a precursor to the eventual failure. Look for this
symptom.

As a side note, I have converted all lighting in my house to compact
fluorescent. Despite my best efforts, neither my wife or any of my 3
children have learned the fact that a light switch has 2 settings (on
and OFF), not just one (on)!

Cheers for Canada

Bob Morgoch

amhirsohail@yahoo.com.au (Amhir Sohail) wrote in message news:<7c9b2832.0312092220.19501757@posting.google.com>...

Thanks guys,

It is momentary so I won't panic.

I Appreciate, as always, your responses.

Jac


amhirsohail@yahoo.com.au (Amhir Sohail) wrote in message news:<7c9b2832.0312072306.7e6e1704@posting.google.com>...
HI Guys,

I've had a ducted reverse cycle installed (single phase) and everytime
the compressor kicks in the lights flicker quickly. I'm thinking this
can't be good for my audio and computer equipment. The aircon has a
soft starter installed.

As my neighbours lights don't dim when this happens, its got to be
either the cable to my house or something inside it.

Where is the weakness in this link and is this damaging anything in
the long run?

One other question, if it is prudent to use a UPS, what will handle my
5x80w channel Sony Amp? It lists a power consumption of 155 watts, is
this peak?

Thanks

Jac

 

[Kevin Ettery]

Bob,

Highlights the need to chase up problems, and not to necessarily take the
technician's word as gospel (some techs I know shouldn't be let out without
a minder!). If you're not satisfied with the answer (as opposed to not
getting the answer you hope for) you should indeed take it higher in the
organisation.

You also made the comment that you've "converted all lighting in my house to
compact fluorescent". The local electricity authority will not love you
for that - compact flourescents are the worst culprits for generating
harmonic distortions on the electricity supply.

Regards

Kevin

"Bob M" <bmorgoch@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
news:512df638.0312180912.569b25fc@posting.google.com...

Hi there,

I had a similar problem in my house, but the lights would dim when any
motor started (furnace blower, fridge, freezer, etc.) The worse effect
was observed when my air compressor started. The symptom I experienced
was that lights on the same phase as the motor dimmed, while lights on
the opposite phase got brighter. I went through many incandescent
lights bulbs as a result. Measurements conducted on the main buss at
the fuse box confirmed that as load was added to one phase, the
voltage rose on the opposite phase, i.e. the neutral wire from the
pole transformer could not handle the current. My house was physically
the farthest away from the pole transformer (i.e. at the end of the
line).

I called the Electricity supplier (in Ontario Canada, its called Hydro
One) and had them come out and make measurements. The technician
measured 4.7 volts of drop between the pole transformer and my fuse
box main buss with a 10.2 amp load. I pointed out to him that my panel
was rated at 100 amps and thus the voltage would be unacceptably low
should I ever draw 100 amps. His reply demonstrated his lack of
knowledge in that he said it would only drop a couple more volts with
a 100 amp load. Guess he never heard of ohm's law.

Anyways, after he left, I called Hydro One and asked to talk to an
Engineer. After 3 call backs from "customer agents", a real network
design engineer returned my call. I explained what his tech had
measured and asked if this was acceptable. His reply was "from the
surface, no, but leave it with me and I will get back to you".

4 days later he knocked on my door and confirmed that all the
distribution wiring out on the street poles was not "up to snuff" and
required replacing. About 3 months later, they began replacing all the
distribution wiring in my neighbourhood (my street was first on the
list!). No more issues since.

It might behove you to try and track down why the dimming is
occurring. The additional load of the air con could possibly cause a
marginal situation to eventually fail. This could possibly get ugly,
depending on what the real problem is and what the resultant failure
turns out to be. I do not regret investing the time I did into
resolving my issue. My neighbours are pleased as well. If you are not
technical, get someone who is to help you. I'm sure a couple of beers
(after the troubleshooting is complete!) as payment is all it would
take to figure out what/where the issue is.

Some possible causes:

1) Pole transformer is over loaded (not very likely as everyone of
your neigbours on the same transformer would be experiencing the same
propblem).
2) Street distribution wiring is too light and cannot handle the
current (as in my case).
3) Bad connection in the distribution wiring (crimp connectors
corroding, meter connection loose, etc.).
4) Bad/loose connection in your mains panel (mains wiring, buss
connection, circuit breaker or fuse connection, etc. -my sister's 100
amp main fuse connection on 1 phase went up in smoke due to poor
torquing of the connections- had to replace the entire panel as parts
for the thing were no longer availible- lots of $$ as a result).

Bad/loose connections will usually generate heat and show a
discolouration as a precursor to the eventual failure. Look for this
symptom.

As a side note, I have converted all lighting in my house to compact
fluorescent. Despite my best efforts, neither my wife or any of my 3
children have learned the fact that a light switch has 2 settings (on
and OFF), not just one (on)!

Cheers for Canada

Bob Morgoch

amhirsohail@yahoo.com.au (Amhir Sohail) wrote in message
news:<7c9b2832.0312092220.19501757@posting.google.com>...
Thanks guys,

It is momentary so I won't panic.

I Appreciate, as always, your responses.

Jac


amhirsohail@yahoo.com.au (Amhir Sohail) wrote in message
news:<7c9b2832.0312072306.7e6e1704@posting.google.com>...
HI Guys,

I've had a ducted reverse cycle installed (single phase) and everytime
the compressor kicks in the lights flicker quickly. I'm thinking this
can't be good for my audio and computer equipment. The aircon has a
soft starter installed.

As my neighbours lights don't dim when this happens, its got to be
either the cable to my house or something inside it.

Where is the weakness in this link and is this damaging anything in
the long run?

One other question, if it is prudent to use a UPS, what will handle my
5x80w channel Sony Amp? It lists a power consumption of 155 watts, is
this peak?

Thanks

Jac

 

[Bob M]

That may be true, but the "harmonic distortions" that they generate on
my bank account make up for the issues they cause to the power grid!
Switching power supplies are much more efficient than 50/60 Hz
transformer based units. It's just a fact of life that the power
company must learn to deal with. They want us to conserve, so they
have to adapt to the technology that enables us to do it.

On my original posting, I ment to close with:

Cheers from Canada!

Bob

Not quite sure how I managed to type: Cheers for Canada - must be
getting old or something........

"Kevin Ettery" <kpettery@dcsi.net.au> wrote in message news:<3fe56834@news.leadingedgeinternet.net.au>...

Bob,

Highlights the need to chase up problems, and not to necessarily take the
technician's word as gospel (some techs I know shouldn't be let out without
a minder!). If you're not satisfied with the answer (as opposed to not
getting the answer you hope for) you should indeed take it higher in the
organisation.

You also made the comment that you've "converted all lighting in my house to
compact fluorescent". The local electricity authority will not love you
for that - compact flourescents are the worst culprits for generating
harmonic distortions on the electricity supply.

Regards

Kevin

"Bob M" <bmorgoch@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
news:512df638.0312180912.569b25fc@posting.google.com...
Hi there,

I had a similar problem in my house, but the lights would dim when any
motor started (furnace blower, fridge, freezer, etc.) The worse effect
was observed when my air compressor started. The symptom I experienced
was that lights on the same phase as the motor dimmed, while lights on
the opposite phase got brighter. I went through many incandescent
lights bulbs as a result. Measurements conducted on the main buss at
the fuse box confirmed that as load was added to one phase, the
voltage rose on the opposite phase, i.e. the neutral wire from the
pole transformer could not handle the current. My house was physically
the farthest away from the pole transformer (i.e. at the end of the
line).

I called the Electricity supplier (in Ontario Canada, its called Hydro
One) and had them come out and make measurements. The technician
measured 4.7 volts of drop between the pole transformer and my fuse
box main buss with a 10.2 amp load. I pointed out to him that my panel
was rated at 100 amps and thus the voltage would be unacceptably low
should I ever draw 100 amps. His reply demonstrated his lack of
knowledge in that he said it would only drop a couple more volts with
a 100 amp load. Guess he never heard of ohm's law.

Anyways, after he left, I called Hydro One and asked to talk to an
Engineer. After 3 call backs from "customer agents", a real network
design engineer returned my call. I explained what his tech had
measured and asked if this was acceptable. His reply was "from the
surface, no, but leave it with me and I will get back to you".

4 days later he knocked on my door and confirmed that all the
distribution wiring out on the street poles was not "up to snuff" and
required replacing. About 3 months later, they began replacing all the
distribution wiring in my neighbourhood (my street was first on the
list!). No more issues since.

It might behove you to try and track down why the dimming is
occurring. The additional load of the air con could possibly cause a
marginal situation to eventually fail. This could possibly get ugly,
depending on what the real problem is and what the resultant failure
turns out to be. I do not regret investing the time I did into
resolving my issue. My neighbours are pleased as well. If you are not
technical, get someone who is to help you. I'm sure a couple of beers
(after the troubleshooting is complete!) as payment is all it would
take to figure out what/where the issue is.

Some possible causes:

1) Pole transformer is over loaded (not very likely as everyone of
your neigbours on the same transformer would be experiencing the same
propblem).
2) Street distribution wiring is too light and cannot handle the
current (as in my case).
3) Bad connection in the distribution wiring (crimp connectors
corroding, meter connection loose, etc.).
4) Bad/loose connection in your mains panel (mains wiring, buss
connection, circuit breaker or fuse connection, etc. -my sister's 100
amp main fuse connection on 1 phase went up in smoke due to poor
torquing of the connections- had to replace the entire panel as parts
for the thing were no longer availible- lots of $$ as a result).

Bad/loose connections will usually generate heat and show a
discolouration as a precursor to the eventual failure. Look for this
symptom.

As a side note, I have converted all lighting in my house to compact
fluorescent. Despite my best efforts, neither my wife or any of my 3
children have learned the fact that a light switch has 2 settings (on
and OFF), not just one (on)!

Cheers for Canada

Bob Morgoch

amhirsohail@yahoo.com.au (Amhir Sohail) wrote in message
news:<7c9b2832.0312092220.19501757@posting.google.com>...
Thanks guys,

It is momentary so I won't panic.

I Appreciate, as always, your responses.

Jac


amhirsohail@yahoo.com.au (Amhir Sohail) wrote in message
news:<7c9b2832.0312072306.7e6e1704@posting.google.com>...
HI Guys,

I've had a ducted reverse cycle installed (single phase) and everytime
the compressor kicks in the lights flicker quickly. I'm thinking this
can't be good for my audio and computer equipment. The aircon has a
soft starter installed.

As my neighbours lights don't dim when this happens, its got to be
either the cable to my house or something inside it.

Where is the weakness in this link and is this damaging anything in
the long run?

One other question, if it is prudent to use a UPS, what will handle my
5x80w channel Sony Amp? It lists a power consumption of 155 watts, is
this peak?

Thanks

Jac

 

[Ken Taylor]

Compact fluoro's don't have to be bad with power factor - the better ones
have in-built electronic power factor correction. Switch mode supplies
(the better ones, anyway) have this also. Having said that, try powering a
40kW RF power amp with a PF of 0.65!!

Ken

"Bob M" <bmorgoch@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
news:512df638.0312222221.d9cf39a@posting.google.com...

That may be true, but the "harmonic distortions" that they generate on
my bank account make up for the issues they cause to the power grid!
Switching power supplies are much more efficient than 50/60 Hz
transformer based units. It's just a fact of life that the power
company must learn to deal with. They want us to conserve, so they
have to adapt to the technology that enables us to do it.

On my original posting, I ment to close with:

Cheers from Canada!

Bob

Not quite sure how I managed to type: Cheers for Canada - must be
getting old or something........

"Kevin Ettery" <kpettery@dcsi.net.au> wrote in message
news:<3fe56834@news.leadingedgeinternet.net.au>...
Bob,

Highlights the need to chase up problems, and not to necessarily take
the
technician's word as gospel (some techs I know shouldn't be let out
without
a minder!). If you're not satisfied with the answer (as opposed to not
getting the answer you hope for) you should indeed take it higher in the
organisation.

You also made the comment that you've "converted all lighting in my
house to
compact fluorescent". The local electricity authority will not love
you
for that - compact flourescents are the worst culprits for generating
harmonic distortions on the electricity supply.

Regards

Kevin

"Bob M" <bmorgoch@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
news:512df638.0312180912.569b25fc@posting.google.com...
Hi there,

I had a similar problem in my house, but the lights would dim when any
motor started (furnace blower, fridge, freezer, etc.) The worse effect
was observed when my air compressor started. The symptom I experienced
was that lights on the same phase as the motor dimmed, while lights on
the opposite phase got brighter. I went through many incandescent
lights bulbs as a result. Measurements conducted on the main buss at
the fuse box confirmed that as load was added to one phase, the
voltage rose on the opposite phase, i.e. the neutral wire from the
pole transformer could not handle the current. My house was physically
the farthest away from the pole transformer (i.e. at the end of the
line).

I called the Electricity supplier (in Ontario Canada, its called Hydro
One) and had them come out and make measurements. The technician
measured 4.7 volts of drop between the pole transformer and my fuse
box main buss with a 10.2 amp load. I pointed out to him that my panel
was rated at 100 amps and thus the voltage would be unacceptably low
should I ever draw 100 amps. His reply demonstrated his lack of
knowledge in that he said it would only drop a couple more volts with
a 100 amp load. Guess he never heard of ohm's law.

Anyways, after he left, I called Hydro One and asked to talk to an
Engineer. After 3 call backs from "customer agents", a real network
design engineer returned my call. I explained what his tech had
measured and asked if this was acceptable. His reply was "from the
surface, no, but leave it with me and I will get back to you".

4 days later he knocked on my door and confirmed that all the
distribution wiring out on the street poles was not "up to snuff" and
required replacing. About 3 months later, they began replacing all the
distribution wiring in my neighbourhood (my street was first on the
list!). No more issues since.

It might behove you to try and track down why the dimming is
occurring. The additional load of the air con could possibly cause a
marginal situation to eventually fail. This could possibly get ugly,
depending on what the real problem is and what the resultant failure
turns out to be. I do not regret investing the time I did into
resolving my issue. My neighbours are pleased as well. If you are not
technical, get someone who is to help you. I'm sure a couple of beers
(after the troubleshooting is complete!) as payment is all it would
take to figure out what/where the issue is.

Some possible causes:

1) Pole transformer is over loaded (not very likely as everyone of
your neigbours on the same transformer would be experiencing the same
propblem).
2) Street distribution wiring is too light and cannot handle the
current (as in my case).
3) Bad connection in the distribution wiring (crimp connectors
corroding, meter connection loose, etc.).
4) Bad/loose connection in your mains panel (mains wiring, buss
connection, circuit breaker or fuse connection, etc. -my sister's 100
amp main fuse connection on 1 phase went up in smoke due to poor
torquing of the connections- had to replace the entire panel as parts
for the thing were no longer availible- lots of $$ as a result).

Bad/loose connections will usually generate heat and show a
discolouration as a precursor to the eventual failure. Look for this
symptom.

As a side note, I have converted all lighting in my house to compact
fluorescent. Despite my best efforts, neither my wife or any of my 3
children have learned the fact that a light switch has 2 settings (on
and OFF), not just one (on)!

Cheers for Canada

Bob Morgoch

amhirsohail@yahoo.com.au (Amhir Sohail) wrote in message
news:<7c9b2832.0312092220.19501757@posting.google.com>...
Thanks guys,

It is momentary so I won't panic.

I Appreciate, as always, your responses.

Jac


amhirsohail@yahoo.com.au (Amhir Sohail) wrote in message
news:<7c9b2832.0312072306.7e6e1704@posting.google.com>...
HI Guys,

I've had a ducted reverse cycle installed (single phase) and
everytime
the compressor kicks in the lights flicker quickly. I'm thinking
this
can't be good for my audio and computer equipment. The aircon has
a
soft starter installed.

As my neighbours lights don't dim when this happens, its got to be
either the cable to my house or something inside it.

Where is the weakness in this link and is this damaging anything
in
the long run?

One other question, if it is prudent to use a UPS, what will
handle my
5x80w channel Sony Amp? It lists a power consumption of 155 watts,
is
this peak?

Thanks

Jac