airbags

Paul Hovnanian P.E. · Feb 25, 2004

Bob Kos wrote:

"James Sweet" <jamessweet@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:zGeYb.44916$jk2.109626@attbi_s53...

The deploying when not supposed to concerns me far more, I've heard a few
stories of water getting into airbag controllers and the driver ending up
with a broken nose when they turn the key. I've never owned a car with an
airbag but if I did I can be fairly certain I would disconnect it, I know
I'll get flamed for saying that but the airbags in north america are
excessively powerful and IMO not nessesary in a well designed car with
properly buckled occupants.

That's the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard. Airbags don't just deploy
for no good reason. There are multiple sensors and an intelligent processor
involved with SIR deployment. Deployment is VERY conditional. They won't
even deploy in certain types of accidents. I'd say the chances of this
actually happening are roughly the same as having your computer monitor
screen explode in your face when you push the power button on. Maybe less
of a chance than that.

They do from time to time. I believe Volvo had a problem a few years
back where the static charge created by rubbing the dashboard (while
cleaning it) set a few off.

Airbags are equipped with shorting plugs so that when unplugged (for
maintenance), the squib inputs are shorted, preventing detonations due
to static.

There are problems with fire or rescue personnel having them go off
while they are leaning into wrecked cars, or side airbags being set off
when they cut the roof off a car to
extract injured occupants.

--
Paul Hovnanian mailto

aul@Hovnanian.com
note to spammers: a Washington State resident
------------------------------------------------------------------
If you are going to try cross-country skiing,
start with a small country.

John Woodgate · Feb 25, 2004

I read in sci.electronics.design that Bob Kos <see@text.for.eddress>
wrote (in <bzT_b.7033$yZ1.3250@newsread2.news.pas.earthlink.net&gt

about
'airbags', on Wed, 25 Feb 2004:

That's the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard.

I wasn't very pleased about it, either, when I read the warning in the
instruction book of my Volvo.

Airbags don't just
deploy for no good reason. There are multiple sensors and an
intelligent processor involved with SIR deployment. Deployment is VERY
conditional. They won't even deploy in certain types of accidents.

"If the front passenger compartment becomes flooded, the side airbags
may deploy without warning, because the sensor is under the front seats.
The vehicle must be towed to an authorised Volvo Service Centre."

--
Regards, John Woodgate, OOO - Own Opinions Only.
The good news is that nothing is compulsory.
The bad news is that everything is prohibited.
http://www.jmwa.demon.co.uk Also see http://www.isce.org.uk

Bob Kos · Feb 25, 2004

"John Woodgate" <jmw@jmwa.demon.contraspam.yuk> wrote in message

"If the front passenger compartment becomes flooded, the side airbags
may deploy without warning, because the sensor is under the front seats.
The vehicle must be towed to an authorised Volvo Service Centre."

I wonder who though up THAT design?? Single sensor deployment??? Am I
reading that right??? And a sensor vulnerable to environmental
contamination / false trigger. Fabulous. I'm again reminded why I don't
like Volvos.

Of course, I still maintain my reply to the OP. Air bags do not deploy for
no good reason. Submerging your Volvo will apparently deploy the air bag.
Not exactly a common, everyday occurence.

Jim Thompson · Feb 25, 2004

On Wed, 25 Feb 2004 19:51:42 GMT, "Bob Kos" <see@text.for.eddress>
wrote:

"John Woodgate" <jmw@jmwa.demon.contraspam.yuk> wrote in message

"If the front passenger compartment becomes flooded, the side airbags
may deploy without warning, because the sensor is under the front seats.
The vehicle must be towed to an authorised Volvo Service Centre."

I wonder who though up THAT design?? Single sensor deployment??? Am I
reading that right??? And a sensor vulnerable to environmental
contamination / false trigger. Fabulous. I'm again reminded why I don't
like Volvos.

Of course, I still maintain my reply to the OP. Air bags do not deploy for
no good reason. Submerging your Volvo will apparently deploy the air bag.
Not exactly a common, everyday occurence.

480)460-2350 | |
| E-mail Address at Website Fax

John Woodgate · Feb 25, 2004

I read in sci.electronics.design that Bob Kos <see@text.for.eddress>
wrote (in <i17%b.9319$aT1.904@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net&gt

about
'airbags', on Wed, 25 Feb 2004:

Of course, I still maintain my reply to the OP. Air bags do not deploy
for no good reason. Submerging your Volvo will apparently deploy the
air bag. Not exactly a common, everyday occurence.

Indeed, I haven't submerged the Volvo, yet. But I did flood a company
Cortina by driving through flood water to my boss's house. The water was
just an inch or two too deep, but I kept the engine running OK.
--
Regards, John Woodgate, OOO - Own Opinions Only.
The good news is that nothing is compulsory.
The bad news is that everything is prohibited.
http://www.jmwa.demon.co.uk Also see http://www.isce.org.uk

Rene Tschaggelar · Feb 25, 2004

Bob Kos wrote:

"John Woodgate" <jmw@jmwa.demon.contraspam.yuk> wrote in message

"If the front passenger compartment becomes flooded, the side airbags
may deploy without warning, because the sensor is under the front seats.
The vehicle must be towed to an authorised Volvo Service Centre."

I wonder who though up THAT design?? Single sensor deployment??? Am I
reading that right??? And a sensor vulnerable to environmental
contamination / false trigger. Fabulous. I'm again reminded why I don't
like Volvos.

Of course, I still maintain my reply to the OP. Air bags do not deploy for
no good reason. Submerging your Volvo will apparently deploy the air bag.
Not exactly a common, everyday occurence.

Several other manufacturer reported unintended deployment
of the airbag. When it happens on the freeway at 120km/h with
10m distance to the next you're getting a problem.
We're having reports over here on how to behave in the car.
Eg for the co-driver, putting the feet up to the dashboard is
a habit to better forget. Having a baby in the arms is considered
irresponsible.

Airbags do deploy by themselves.
There might be a bug in the controlling electronics too.

A colleague of mine had an upperclass car with distance warner.
Intended to act on the break while parking in when the distance
to the other car in front got sufficiently small. This electonics
happend to act on the freeway at 120km/h. More than once.

Rene
--
Ing.Buero R.Tschaggelar - http://www.ibrtses.com
& commercial newsgroups - http://www.talkto.net

RonKZ650 · Feb 26, 2004

Of course, I still maintain my reply to the OP. Air bags do not deploy for
no good reason. Submerging your Volvo will apparently deploy the air bag.
Not exactly a common, everyday occurence.

About 10 yrs ago, a friend of mine who drove a semi car hauler, bringing new
cars out of Detroit swore that "quite often" the bags would deploy before they
unloaded the cars at the dealer. This is a 60 yr old man that had no reason to
make up stories out of the clear blue sky? Well maybe, but I'm still mighty
happy driving my '62 Plymouth around.
Ron

James Sweet · Feb 26, 2004

"Bob Kos" <see@text.for.eddress> wrote in message
news:bzT_b.7033$yZ1.3250@newsread2.news.pas.earthlink.net...

"James Sweet" <jamessweet@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:zGeYb.44916$jk2.109626@attbi_s53...

The deploying when not supposed to concerns me far more, I've heard a
few
stories of water getting into airbag controllers and the driver ending
up
with a broken nose when they turn the key. I've never owned a car with
an
airbag but if I did I can be fairly certain I would disconnect it, I
know
I'll get flamed for saying that but the airbags in north america are
excessively powerful and IMO not nessesary in a well designed car with
properly buckled occupants.

That's the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard. Airbags don't just
deploy
for no good reason. There are multiple sensors and an intelligent
processor
involved with SIR deployment. Deployment is VERY conditional. They won't
even deploy in certain types of accidents. I'd say the chances of this
actually happening are roughly the same as having your computer monitor
screen explode in your face when you push the power button on. Maybe less
of a chance than that.

Hardly, I've spoken with two people who have had this happen, of course both
were 10+ year old cars (IE the ones I'm interested in owning) that had the
airbag control box located under the driver's seat. Sensor in that case is a
simple accellerometer.

James Sweet · Feb 26, 2004

"John Woodgate" <jmw@jmwa.demon.contraspam.yuk> wrote in message
news:g$0t5+B65NPAFw0G@jmwa.demon.co.uk...

I read in sci.electronics.design that Bob Kos <see@text.for.eddress
wrote (in <bzT_b.7033$yZ1.3250@newsread2.news.pas.earthlink.net&gt about
'airbags', on Wed, 25 Feb 2004:

That's the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard.

I wasn't very pleased about it, either, when I read the warning in the
instruction book of my Volvo.

Airbags don't just
deploy for no good reason. There are multiple sensors and an
intelligent processor involved with SIR deployment. Deployment is VERY
conditional. They won't even deploy in certain types of accidents.

"If the front passenger compartment becomes flooded, the side airbags
may deploy without warning, because the sensor is under the front seats.
The vehicle must be towed to an authorised Volvo Service Centre."

Yes, this is what I was referring to, and Volvo is certainly not the only
car manufacture to use that setup, it's actually quite common.

Thankfully though, the reinforced passenger cage, large crumple zone,
collapsible steering column and driveshaft, breakaway engine mounts,
spacious interior and good seatbelts make them damn safe even before the
airbags came into play, the 240 still holds as one of the safer cars on the
road, despite being designed nearly 3 decades ago and despite only the last
couple years offering airbags. Ask any fireman, EMT, or insurance broker,
most any of them will confirm this. If you design a car to absorb the force
of the impact while not deforming the passenger compartment, and *if* the
occupant(s) are properly belted into place, then the airbag will do no good.
Of course I'm somewhat biased, I know a great many cars out there are built
like tin cans, and in their case an airbag could concievably protect an
occupant. I personally choose not to drive a flimsy car though.

rgb · Feb 27, 2004

Try that for fun next time you have the chance.

Find a SAFE place with an ice lane and a clean lane (some empty parking
lots are a good place for that).
Try with both ABS an not ABS brake.
Drive with one side of your car on the ice lane and try an emergency stop.

)

PS. some cheap ABS should not even exit (like one in 1990 Cavalier (low
entry)), they were a pain ...

PS.. Summer ABS no really needed !

David DiGiacomo wrote:

In article <TEMZb.101944$IF6.2999924@ursa-nb00s0.nbnet.nb.ca>,
Jeff <levy_jeff@hotmail.com> wrote:

Many cars with ABS will do it - the pedal just pulsates, while the braking
system makes a weird sound, and the car keeps rolling down the hill at an
approximate constant slow speed. The car I was driving was an almost brand
new Pontiac GTX Sunfire. I much prefer the older, non ABS brakes - I can
control a car much better with standard brakes. Many people around here
complain about ABS brakes in the winter, and want them disabled. It's like
they were never tested in winter conditions.

Well, of course they were tested on snow and ice, but they are not magic.

Here's a good explanation of the tradeoffs:

http://www.tc.gc.ca/roadsafety/tp/tp13082/abs1_e.htm

And here are some experimental results:

http://www.veta.se/abs66ice.htm

Both found in 30 seconds with Google...

Bob Kos · Feb 28, 2004

Did the bags deploy while the cars were in transit - keys off, systems
disabled? Or did they deploy when the ever-caring porters were
moto-crossing brand new cars off the hauler?

"RonKZ650" <ronkz650@aol.comnospam> wrote in message
news:20040225215629.20229.00000407@mb-m04.aol.com...

Of course, I still maintain my reply to the OP. Air bags do not deploy
for
no good reason. Submerging your Volvo will apparently deploy the air
bag.
Not exactly a common, everyday occurence.

About 10 yrs ago, a friend of mine who drove a semi car hauler, bringing
new
cars out of Detroit swore that "quite often" the bags would deploy before
they
unloaded the cars at the dealer. This is a 60 yr old man that had no
reason to
make up stories out of the clear blue sky? Well maybe, but I'm still
mighty
happy driving my '62 Plymouth around.
Ron

Bob Kos · Feb 28, 2004

"James Sweet" <jamessweet@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:9og%b.124014$uV3.640185@attbi_s51...

"John Woodgate" <jmw@jmwa.demon.contraspam.yuk> wrote in message
news:g$0t5+B65NPAFw0G@jmwa.demon.co.uk...
I read in sci.electronics.design that Bob Kos <see@text.for.eddress
wrote (in <bzT_b.7033$yZ1.3250@newsread2.news.pas.earthlink.net&gt about
'airbags', on Wed, 25 Feb 2004:

That's the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard.

I wasn't very pleased about it, either, when I read the warning in the
instruction book of my Volvo.

Airbags don't just
deploy for no good reason. There are multiple sensors and an
intelligent processor involved with SIR deployment. Deployment is VERY
conditional. They won't even deploy in certain types of accidents.

"If the front passenger compartment becomes flooded, the side airbags
may deploy without warning, because the sensor is under the front seats.
The vehicle must be towed to an authorised Volvo Service Centre."

Yes, this is what I was referring to, and Volvo is certainly not the only
car manufacture to use that setup, it's actually quite common.

It IS? Name another model that uses a single sensor deployment. I don't
believe that.

Thankfully though, the reinforced passenger cage, large crumple zone,
collapsible steering column and driveshaft, breakaway engine mounts,
spacious interior and good seatbelts make them damn safe even before the
airbags came into play, the 240 still holds as one of the safer cars on
the
road, despite being designed nearly 3 decades ago and despite only the
last
couple years offering airbags. Ask any fireman, EMT, or insurance broker,
most any of them will confirm this. If you design a car to absorb the
force
of the impact while not deforming the passenger compartment, and *if* the
occupant(s) are properly belted into place, then the airbag will do no
good.
Of course I'm somewhat biased, I know a great many cars out there are
built
like tin cans, and in their case an airbag could concievably protect an
occupant. I personally choose not to drive a flimsy car though.

I agree. Drive a soup can and you'll die in it.

However - if the market demands horsepower, handling, and affordability, the
manufacturers will deliver. Perhaps at the expense of structural rigidity
and crash worthiness. You get what you pay for.

Bob Kos · Feb 29, 2004

"electricked" <no_emails_please> wrote in message news:cPGdnTJ1Y5DyI6_dRVn-

I saw a documentary once where the psychologist being interviewed opined
that the only way to reduce the road toll dramatically was to remove all
safety features and put a metal spike in the middle of the steering
wheel,
pointed at the driver.

Ken

And how will that work? Are they going to include a supplementary button
which reads "I did something stupid. Slap me please!" BANG!

--Viktor

It's similar to adding a little chlorine to the gene pool. Natural

selection at its best....

airbags

Paul Hovnanian P.E.

Guest

John Woodgate

Guest

Bob Kos

Guest

Jim Thompson

Guest

John Woodgate

Guest

Rene Tschaggelar

Guest

RonKZ650

Guest

James Sweet

Guest

James Sweet

Guest

rgb

Guest

Bob Kos

Guest

Bob Kos

Guest

Bob Kos

Guest

Welcome to EDABoard.com

Sponsor

Online statistics

Forum statistics

airbags

Paul Hovnanian P.E.

Guest

John Woodgate

Guest

Bob Kos

Guest

Jim Thompson

Guest

John Woodgate

Guest

Rene Tschaggelar

Guest

RonKZ650

Guest

James Sweet

Guest

James Sweet

Guest

rgb

Guest

Bob Kos

Guest

Bob Kos

Guest

Bob Kos

Guest

Log in

Welcome to EDABoard.com

Sponsor