airbags

[Rene Tschaggelar]

James Sweet wrote:

The deploying when not supposed to concerns me far more, I've heard a few
stories of water getting into airbag controllers and the driver ending up
with a broken nose when they turn the key. I've never owned a car with an
airbag but if I did I can be fairly certain I would disconnect it, I know
I'll get flamed for saying that but the airbags in north america are
excessively powerful and IMO not nessesary in a well designed car with
properly buckled occupants.

Indeeed, the north american airbags are bigger than those elsewhere.
This due to the fact that in other countries you are supposed to be
belted on additionally. Then the airbag can be designed smaller.
But somehow legislation wasn't successful is reducing the american
right to drive unbelted.

Rene
--
Ing.Buero R.Tschaggelar - http://www.ibrtses.com
& commercial newsgroups - http://www.talkto.net

 

[Dave VanHorn]

Mandatory-use-of-seat-belt laws are in the works in most states, even
Arizona ;-)

And yet school buses still have none..
They also stop before railroad crossings, which would seem to increase the
risk of stalling out across the tracks, and have now strobe lights on top,
that apparently are supposed to serve some purpose.

YOU can't put your kid in the middle of a nicely padded SUV for a 5 minute
trip unbelted (nor should you), but the state can pick up your kid, and
twice a day, cram them into a big can of unbelted kids, and drive around
town for half an hour each way..

 

[RonKZ650]

So are you saying we shouldn't have airbags in cars?

Yes, that's my opinion. I disconnected mine as soon as I got the car.

Good for you. I'd be much more worried about the stupid bag than comforted by
it's presence.
Same with ABS brakes. After many close calls due to the brakes suddenly
releasing "thanks" to the ABS "helping" me drive, I disconnected them on my
1989 Ford truck. What a wonderful improvement. Unfortunately the newer vehicals
aren't as simple to disconnect, so my advice is to leave about a block
following distance between yourself and any other vehical to allow the ABS to
"help" you stop.
ABS is for iddiots that can't drive and airbags go in the same catagory.
Ron

 

[James Sweet]

"Dave VanHorn" <dvanhorn@cedar.net> wrote in message
news:aOednTF7rtut5K7d4p2dnA@comcast.com...

Mandatory-use-of-seat-belt laws are in the works in most states, even
Arizona ;-)

And yet school buses still have none..
They also stop before railroad crossings, which would seem to increase the
risk of stalling out across the tracks, and have now strobe lights on top,
that apparently are supposed to serve some purpose.

YOU can't put your kid in the middle of a nicely padded SUV for a 5 minute
trip unbelted (nor should you), but the state can pick up your kid, and
twice a day, cram them into a big can of unbelted kids, and drive around
town for half an hour each way..

IIRC the reasoning behind no belts in busses was to aid in escaping should
something happen. All said and done schoolbusses have an excellent safety
record, it's more common to hear of a commercial airliner crash than a fatal
schoolbus accident.

I've noticed those strobe lights lately, what a silly idea, it's very
distracting to be driving on the freeway at night and have a strobe flashing
repeatedly in my peripheral vision, I may be somehow more likely to see the
bus (and how could I miss one anyway?) but at the expense of being more
likely to not see other obstacles.

The silly stopping at railroad crossings came into effect after a bus driver
stopped with the tail end of the bus hanging out over the track and got hit
by a train, how stopping to look both ways first avoids that I'm not sure,
if it were up to me I'd say stop if traffic is backed up to within a certain
distance of the tracks, otherwise just go, it's stupid.

 

[Isaac Wingfield]

In article <52nYb.301$f23.111@lakeread02>,
"Leonard Caillouet" <no@no.com> wrote:

"electricked" <no_emails_please> wrote in message
news:LtidnbNCk5THO6zdRVn-gQ@comcast.com...

if you're
buckled up, the airbag is worthles (might even kill you in a serious
collision). Sometimes more, is less.

--Viktor

Actually, if you are NOT buckled up the air bag is less effective and more
likely to cause injury.

So are you saying we shouldn't have airbags in cars? Do you believe that we
shouldn't immunize children? That motorcycle helmets cause more injuries
than they prevent? That GFCI receptacles cause cancer? There is such a
thing as research you know.

Interesting airbag questions:

Discounting all the broken wrists and hearing damage, forgetting all the
internal damage to cars from "acidental" deployments, and not counting
the people that are directly killed by airbags when they deploy, what is
the approximate cost of an airbag installation,*per life saved*?

What happens when "certain people" figure out that there's a nice little
explosive squib or two, *free for the taking*, inside every contemporary
auto?

The compound the squib is made of is not only explosive, but hypertoxic,
and will cause problems if it just shows up in landfills; how many
states have procedures in place to deal with that when the cars are
scrapped out? What is the cost of those procedures? Who pays for them?

Isaac

 

[Paul Hovnanian P.E.]

Jim Thompson wrote:
[snip]

Speaking of Jeeps, a co-worker of mine drove her Jeep thru a running
wash... fortunately she was a good swimmer. The Jeep went in at 7th
Avenue and stopped a few blocks from the 19th AVenue crossing.

I lost the URL, but there was a guy who drove his Jeep (without the top)
through a carwash. He put on a wetsuit and mask. No problems.

--
Paul Hovnanian mailtoaul@Hovnanian.com
note to spammers: a Washington State resident
------------------------------------------------------------------
What color is a chameleon looking in a mirror?

 

[James Sweet]

"Isaac Wingfield" <isw@witzend.com> wrote in message
news:isw-03E2FF.21371718022004@netnews.comcast.net...

In article <52nYb.301$f23.111@lakeread02>,
"Leonard Caillouet" <no@no.com> wrote:

"electricked" <no_emails_please> wrote in message
news:LtidnbNCk5THO6zdRVn-gQ@comcast.com...

if you're
buckled up, the airbag is worthles (might even kill you in a serious
collision). Sometimes more, is less.

--Viktor

Actually, if you are NOT buckled up the air bag is less effective and
more
likely to cause injury.

So are you saying we shouldn't have airbags in cars? Do you believe
that we
shouldn't immunize children? That motorcycle helmets cause more
injuries
than they prevent? That GFCI receptacles cause cancer? There is such a
thing as research you know.

Interesting airbag questions:

Discounting all the broken wrists and hearing damage, forgetting all the
internal damage to cars from "acidental" deployments, and not counting
the people that are directly killed by airbags when they deploy, what is
the approximate cost of an airbag installation,*per life saved*?

What happens when "certain people" figure out that there's a nice little
explosive squib or two, *free for the taking*, inside every contemporary
auto?

The compound the squib is made of is not only explosive, but hypertoxic,
and will cause problems if it just shows up in landfills; how many
states have procedures in place to deal with that when the cars are
scrapped out? What is the cost of those procedures? Who pays for them?

Isaac

After working on my girlfriend's Saab for several hours yesterday I've
decided that the worst "safety" invention is not an airbag, it's those @&^@!
"passive" seatbelts with the motorized shoulder strap, absolutely useless,
and a huge pain in the ass to keep working.

 

[Jeff]

"Lasse Langwadt Christensen" <langwadt@ieee.org> wrote in message
news:40327F70.2070509@ieee.org...

Jim Thompson wrote:
On Tue, 17 Feb 2004 11:00:09 -0500, Nick Hull <nhull@access4less.net
wrote:


In article <gp44301urlvv8kvimkc4n53ossu8hp9ehf@4ax.com>,
sparky <sparky@hell.com> wrote:


Good point.
In my opinion more emphasis needs to be put on safe driving pracctices
and avoiding accidents in the first place.


In North America they have advertised ABS brakes and air bags so much
that most uneducated drivers believe thay are immortal when they get
behind the wheel of a vehicle with them. This causes their poor
driving skills to become even worse.

I thought ABS would help so I got it (extra cost option) on the Saturn I
bought for my wife. It is worse than useless, on gravel it releases the
brakes unexpectedly when the vehicle was in perfect control. Often in a
sloped gravel parking lot the car will suddenly lunge at the next car
when the brakes release.


I was exiting up a high speed curved ramp that joins I10 to US60 here
in Phoenix. Some clown who missed his exit cut across the berm right
into my path. I fully expected to hit him but the ABS gave me perfect
braking in that curve with no slip. Now this was a real car, a Q45,
not a toy like a Saturn.

...Jim Thompson

lol,
usually modern ABS is quite good, except on gravel where blocking
the wheels and digging is really the most efficient way to stop.

Or snow - the only way to stop one car from the abs letting the car roll
down the hill was with the emergency brake.

-Lasse

 

[Jim Thompson]

On Thu, 19 Feb 2004 23:43:29 GMT, "Jeff" <levy_jeff@hotmail.com>
wrote:

"Lasse Langwadt Christensen" <langwadt@ieee.org> wrote in message
news:40327F70.2070509@ieee.org...
[snip]
usually modern ABS is quite good, except on gravel where blocking
the wheels and digging is really the most efficient way to stop.

Or snow - the only way to stop one car from the abs letting the car roll
down the hill was with the emergency brake.




-Lasse

Lasse, What brand of car?

...Jim Thompson
--
| James E.Thompson, P.E. | mens |
| Analog Innovations, Inc. | et |
| Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems | manus |
| Phoenix, Arizona Voice480)460-2350 | |
| E-mail Address at Website Fax480)460-2142 | Brass Rat |
| http://www.analog-innovations.com | 1962 |

I love to cook with wine. Sometimes I even put it in the food.

 

[normanstrong]

What gas is an airbag filled with?

Norm Strong

"James Sweet" <jamessweet@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:%CQYb.348086$xy6.1733339@attbi_s02...

"Dave VanHorn" <dvanhorn@cedar.net> wrote in message
news:aOednTF7rtut5K7d4p2dnA@comcast.com...

Mandatory-use-of-seat-belt laws are in the works in most states,
even
Arizona ;-)

And yet school buses still have none..
They also stop before railroad crossings, which would seem to
increase the
risk of stalling out across the tracks, and have now strobe lights
on top,
that apparently are supposed to serve some purpose.

YOU can't put your kid in the middle of a nicely padded SUV for a
5 minute
trip unbelted (nor should you), but the state can pick up your
kid, and
twice a day, cram them into a big can of unbelted kids, and drive
around
town for half an hour each way..




IIRC the reasoning behind no belts in busses was to aid in escaping
should
something happen. All said and done schoolbusses have an excellent
safety
record, it's more common to hear of a commercial airliner crash than
a fatal
schoolbus accident.

I've noticed those strobe lights lately, what a silly idea, it's
very
distracting to be driving on the freeway at night and have a strobe
flashing
repeatedly in my peripheral vision, I may be somehow more likely to
see the
bus (and how could I miss one anyway?) but at the expense of being
more
likely to not see other obstacles.

The silly stopping at railroad crossings came into effect after a
bus driver
stopped with the tail end of the bus hanging out over the track and
got hit
by a train, how stopping to look both ways first avoids that I'm not
sure,
if it were up to me I'd say stop if traffic is backed up to within a
certain
distance of the tracks, otherwise just go, it's stupid.

 

[Michael]

"Jeff" <levy_jeff@hotmail.com> wrote in message news:<BSbZb.100651$IF6.2945238@ursa-nb00s0.nbnet.nb.ca>...

"Lasse Langwadt Christensen" <langwadt@ieee.org> wrote in message
news:40327F70.2070509@ieee.org...
Jim Thompson wrote:
On Tue, 17 Feb 2004 11:00:09 -0500, Nick Hull <nhull@access4less.net
wrote:


In article <gp44301urlvv8kvimkc4n53ossu8hp9ehf@4ax.com>,
sparky <sparky@hell.com> wrote:


Good point.
In my opinion more emphasis needs to be put on safe driving pracctices
and avoiding accidents in the first place.


In North America they have advertised ABS brakes and air bags so much
that most uneducated drivers believe thay are immortal when they get
behind the wheel of a vehicle with them. This causes their poor
driving skills to become even worse.

I thought ABS would help so I got it (extra cost option) on the Saturn I
bought for my wife. It is worse than useless, on gravel it releases the
brakes unexpectedly when the vehicle was in perfect control. Often in a
sloped gravel parking lot the car will suddenly lunge at the next car
when the brakes release.


I was exiting up a high speed curved ramp that joins I10 to US60 here
in Phoenix. Some clown who missed his exit cut across the berm right
into my path. I fully expected to hit him but the ABS gave me perfect
braking in that curve with no slip. Now this was a real car, a Q45,
not a toy like a Saturn.

...Jim Thompson

lol,
usually modern ABS is quite good, except on gravel where blocking
the wheels and digging is really the most efficient way to stop.

Or snow - the only way to stop one car from the abs letting the car roll
down the hill was with the emergency brake.




-Lasse

A girl friend of mine lost control, and the car landed upside down,
funny thing was she pulled the handbrake on before climbing out.

 

[James Sweet]

"normanstrong" <normanstrong@comcast.net> wrote in message
newsogZb.362248$na.551690@attbi_s04...

What gas is an airbag filled with?

Norm Strong

It uses a pyrotechnic charge to fill, so the gas is whatever compound
results from the chemical reaction. I'm sure the information is available
online somwhere.

 

[Sir Charles W. Shults III]

Airbags are powered by sodium azide tablets, which decompose explosively
into sodium metal and nitrogen gas.

Cheers!

Chip Shults

 

[Dave Platt]

In article <5YgZb.84156$uV3.546535@attbi_s51>,
James Sweet <jamessweet@hotmail.com> wrote:

It uses a pyrotechnic charge to fill, so the gas is whatever compound
results from the chemical reaction. I'm sure the information is available
online somwhere.

http://www.lemurzone.com/airbag/inflate.htm

http://www.bt.cdc.gov/agent/sodiumazide/basics/facts.asp

The majority of the pyrotechnic charge is (it says here) sodium azide.
When this material is ignited, it burns very rapidly, producing
nitrogen gas with a number of byproducts (including a small amount of
sodium hydroxide a.k.a. lye).

--
Dave Platt <dplatt@radagast.org> AE6EO
Hosting the Jade Warrior home page: http://www.radagast.org/jade-warrior
I do _not_ wish to receive unsolicited commercial email, and I will
boycott any company which has the gall to send me such ads!

 

[Daniel Rudy]

And somewhere around the time of 02/19/2004 22:27, the world stopped and
listened as Dave Platt contributed the following to humanity:

In article <5YgZb.84156$uV3.546535@attbi_s51>,
James Sweet <jamessweet@hotmail.com> wrote:


It uses a pyrotechnic charge to fill, so the gas is whatever compound
results from the chemical reaction. I'm sure the information is available
online somwhere.


http://www.lemurzone.com/airbag/inflate.htm

http://www.bt.cdc.gov/agent/sodiumazide/basics/facts.asp

The majority of the pyrotechnic charge is (it says here) sodium azide.
When this material is ignited, it burns very rapidly, producing
nitrogen gas with a number of byproducts (including a small amount of
sodium hydroxide a.k.a. lye).

There's a company out in my parts that make those charges. They're
called Explosive Technology and they are localed FAR AWAY from
civilization in the back hills of Suisun City, CA. They also make that
detionation wire that burns at 12,000 Feet Per Second that will cut
anything that's in contact with it. Used for pyrotechnics in movies and
such, or when you need to make an emergancy escape route really quick.

As for the charges, the explosive force of an airbag deployment is
equivilent to a 12 guage shotgun blast.
--
Daniel Rudy

Remove nospam, invalid, and 0123456789 to reply.

 

[Daniel Rudy]

And somewhere around the time of 02/17/2004 22:31, the world stopped and
listened as Watson A.Name - "Watt Sun, the Dark Remover" contributed the
following to humanity:

"Tymanthius" <tymanthius@usa.net> wrote in message
news:XDfYb.14365$kR3.10183@bignews4.bellsouth.net...

"gothika" <Vampyres@nettaxi.com> wrote in message
news:il0330lf4aerhb9hnea7fg1lf42dh8knml@4ax.com...

On Mon, 16 Feb 2004 20:25:40 -0600, "Tymanthius"

tymanthius@usa.net

wrote:

soapbox

Not to mention that at least in America, it's 'Not My Fault' and

'Who Can

I

Sue?'

Please! I get sick to death of hearing this crap about America being

a

libelous society.
If corporations weren't so bottom line thinking we wouldn't HAVE so
MANY consumer products that were deathtraps waiting to go off.
You must be a Republican to so readily blame the victim.

snip

That's a silly assumption. Actually, I have very radical political

views.

Can't stand the 2 party system in America, and I'm grieved that our

form of

democracy is largely broken (although it's still better than many

places

form of gov't).

And I don't assume it's the victims fault everytime. But many many of

the

lawsuits are frivolous(sp?) as they are the result some idiot doing

more

than s/he should or could.

Anyway, this isn't the place for such discussions, and I should have
refrained from phrasing it the way I did, although it is a valid

warning.

Feel free to take them private if you believe you can keep up.

tymanthius-at-usa-dot-net




I was sued for $6k, and I along with the other parties, plumber,
insurance company, etc, settled with the bastard for $3k. He pulled a
setup, pretended to slip and fall, then they called the paramedics,
claimed he hurt his neck. I was disappointed that the other parties
were gonna settle, and not push for a court date. I call it legal
theft. But that doesn't mean I don't have faith in the legal system.
It still works, even tho some people manage to take advantage of it.

I live in California. I was told, by a law enforcement officer, that if
someone breaks into your house, make damn sure that you shoot them,
dead. If they manage to crwal out of your house, drag them back in and
hope to God that no one saw you.

He suggested using a .357 or .44 Magnum with hollowpoints...
--
Daniel Rudy

Remove nospam, invalid, and 0123456789 to reply.

 

[Lasse Langwadt Christense]

Jim Thompson wrote:

On Thu, 19 Feb 2004 23:43:29 GMT, "Jeff" <levy_jeff@hotmail.com
wrote:


"Lasse Langwadt Christensen" <langwadt@ieee.org> wrote in message
news:40327F70.2070509@ieee.org...

[snip]

usually modern ABS is quite good, except on gravel where blocking
the wheels and digging is really the most efficient way to stop.

Or snow - the only way to stop one car from the abs letting the car roll
down the hill was with the emergency brake.




-Lasse



Lasse, What brand of car?

...Jim Thompson

Don't know Jim, It was Jeff who said it

-Lasse

 

[Jeff]

"Jim Thompson" <thegreatone@example.com> wrote in message
news:ulia30hitm5kk1oqp05oimdfho6f8l58l5@4ax.com...

On Thu, 19 Feb 2004 23:43:29 GMT, "Jeff" <levy_jeff@hotmail.com
wrote:


"Lasse Langwadt Christensen" <langwadt@ieee.org> wrote in message
news:40327F70.2070509@ieee.org...
[snip]
usually modern ABS is quite good, except on gravel where blocking
the wheels and digging is really the most efficient way to stop.

Or snow - the only way to stop one car from the abs letting the car roll
down the hill was with the emergency brake.




-Lasse



Lasse, What brand of car?

Many cars with ABS will do it - the pedal just pulsates, while the braking
system makes a weird sound, and the car keeps rolling down the hill at an
approximate constant slow speed. The car I was driving was an almost brand
new Pontiac GTX Sunfire. I much prefer the older, non ABS brakes - I can
control a car much better with standard brakes. Many people around here
complain about ABS brakes in the winter, and want them disabled. It's like
they were never tested in winter conditions. I would hate to have ABS on a
road with partial icy patches, such as one side on snow or bare road, and
the other on a strip of ice from previous cars compacting the snow, or from
runoff freezing.

 

[Jim Thompson]

On Sat, 21 Feb 2004 17:34:43 GMT, "Jeff" <levy_jeff@hotmail.com>
wrote:

"Jim Thompson" <thegreatone@example.com> wrote in message
news:ulia30hitm5kk1oqp05oimdfho6f8l58l5@4ax.com...
On Thu, 19 Feb 2004 23:43:29 GMT, "Jeff" <levy_jeff@hotmail.com
wrote:


"Lasse Langwadt Christensen" <langwadt@ieee.org> wrote in message
news:40327F70.2070509@ieee.org...
[snip]
usually modern ABS is quite good, except on gravel where blocking
the wheels and digging is really the most efficient way to stop.

Or snow - the only way to stop one car from the abs letting the car roll
down the hill was with the emergency brake.




-Lasse



Lasse, What brand of car?


Many cars with ABS will do it - the pedal just pulsates, while the braking
system makes a weird sound, and the car keeps rolling down the hill at an
approximate constant slow speed. The car I was driving was an almost brand
new Pontiac GTX Sunfire. I much prefer the older, non ABS brakes - I can
control a car much better with standard brakes. Many people around here
complain about ABS brakes in the winter, and want them disabled. It's like
they were never tested in winter conditions. I would hate to have ABS on a
road with partial icy patches, such as one side on snow or bare road, and
the other on a strip of ice from previous cars compacting the snow, or from
runoff freezing.

All I keep hearing is *GM*. Any other brands with ABS problems?

...Jim Thompson
--
| James E.Thompson, P.E. | mens |
| Analog Innovations, Inc. | et |
| Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems | manus |
| Phoenix, Arizona Voice480)460-2350 | |
| E-mail Address at Website Fax480)460-2142 | Brass Rat |
| http://www.analog-innovations.com | 1962 |

I love to cook with wine. Sometimes I even put it in the food.

 

[David DiGiacomo]

In article <TEMZb.101944$IF6.2999924@ursa-nb00s0.nbnet.nb.ca>,
Jeff <levy_jeff@hotmail.com> wrote:

Many cars with ABS will do it - the pedal just pulsates, while the braking
system makes a weird sound, and the car keeps rolling down the hill at an
approximate constant slow speed. The car I was driving was an almost brand
new Pontiac GTX Sunfire. I much prefer the older, non ABS brakes - I can
control a car much better with standard brakes. Many people around here
complain about ABS brakes in the winter, and want them disabled. It's like
they were never tested in winter conditions.

Well, of course they were tested on snow and ice, but they are not magic.

Here's a good explanation of the tradeoffs:

http://www.tc.gc.ca/roadsafety/tp/tp13082/abs1_e.htm

And here are some experimental results:

http://www.veta.se/abs66ice.htm

Both found in 30 seconds with Google...