advise on doing voice transmission using pic 16f876, URGENT.

Y

Yoong Ping, Lim

Guest
Hi there,

I am doing a project on 16f876s addressing the above mentioned. The
objective is to use one 16f876 to adc the voice from a mic and then transmit
in to the other end 's pic using rs232.

I am struck at obtaining intelligentable voice and has the below
observations that has made been worrying me if I am placing on the wrong
directions.

I am currently using a relatively high level c compiler , wiz c,
professional edition. It is very high level in the sense in which lots of
libraries are already given.
the compiler is a one man show, which i am starting to doubt its capability.
I am using a 20Mhz clock.

1. when i tried a

while(1){
led=0;
}

void on_timer_overflow(){
reset the timer to a value;
led=1;
}

i see the time taken for a period of short blast of 1 and then 0 is about
56us. is it too short? Which relates to about 17khZ. which is very slow
right?

2. assuming that i have very reliable transmission rate of 19200bps. and
rs232 has 1 start and 1 stop, each frame is 10 bits.
each frame is 520us.

3. nyqust states 2*bw. voice of 4k thus sampling of 8k is required. (bare
min)
each require sample time is 125us.


HENCE,

PROBLEM 1

i can see a contradiction between pt 2 and 3. with 8 bits and that i use a
typical voice coding dpm, i at least 2 bits for each sample. (is it
enough)???? i can only pack 4 sample in each 520us instead of 5. not to
mention that it is the bare min sampling. and if i do companding i dun even
know if it helps..



please advise. or get me a new direction? i tried to find some codec chips
but as i am in melb. i can only find the etc5057. oki semiconductor.
it is very complex and it has get me thinking if i should change my
direction.

PROBLEM 2

IN addition, as i mentioned that due to 1. the loop time is 56us. we need 1
sample per 125us. how can we find time to do transmission using rs232 -
requiers 520us.


i realise that i can either go into assembly or change a compiler( i am
running out of time , i presume)
or use a codec chip? i cant find one that is easy to use.

i can too use real time programming BUT due to the inherent slow speed, i
dun think i can. (leading slow context switching)

I presumed that the best way out is to use a codec chip which is able do
data transmission.
 
"Yoong Ping, Lim"
I am doing a project on 16f876s addressing the above mentioned. The
objective is to use one 16f876 to adc the voice from a mic and then
transmit
in to the other end 's pic using rs232.
Click to expand...

** Try entering " infinitely clipped speech " into Google.

Pre processing the audio this way will reduce the data rate drastically.

Here is an example of how to do it.

http://members.tripod.com/werdav/sspeech.html





............ Phil
 
another question.

if i am using the 16f876 which only has one 1 rs232 hardware port.

but i need two uart port, can you pls guide me on how to create another?

thanks .



"Phil Allison" <philallison@tpg.com.au> wrote in message
news:2qht7fFs7ea8U1@uni-berlin.de...
"Yoong Ping, Lim"

I am doing a project on 16f876s addressing the above mentioned. The
objective is to use one 16f876 to adc the voice from a mic and then
transmit
in to the other end 's pic using rs232.



** Try entering " infinitely clipped speech " into Google.

Pre processing the audio this way will reduce the data rate drastically.

Here is an example of how to do it.

http://members.tripod.com/werdav/sspeech.html





........... Phil
Click to expand...
 
Yoong Ping, Lim wrote:

Hi there,

I am doing a project on 16f876s addressing the above mentioned. The
objective is to use one 16f876 to adc the voice from a mic and then transmit
in to the other end 's pic using rs232.

I am struck at obtaining intelligentable voice and has the below
observations that has made been worrying me if I am placing on the wrong
directions.

I am currently using a relatively high level c compiler , wiz c,
professional edition. It is very high level in the sense in which lots of
libraries are already given.
the compiler is a one man show, which i am starting to doubt its capability.
I am using a 20Mhz clock.
Click to expand...
why not ask on the help group that has been set up for it?

details at:
http://www.dontronics.com/chat.html
Cheers Don...


--
Don McKenzie
E-Mail Contact Page: http://www.e-dotcom.com/ecp.php?un=Dontronics

USB to RS232 Converter that works http://www.dontronics.com/usb_232.html
Don's Free Guide To Spam Reduction http://www.e-dotcom.com/spam_exp.php
 
"Yoong Ping, Lim" <wincluster@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:4143a60f$1@news.rivernet.com.au...
Hi there,

I am doing a project on 16f876s addressing the above mentioned. The
objective is to use one 16f876 to adc the voice from a mic and then
transmit
in to the other end 's pic using rs232.

I am struck at obtaining intelligentable voice and has the below
observations that has made been worrying me if I am placing on the wrong
directions.

I am currently using a relatively high level c compiler , wiz c,
professional edition. It is very high level in the sense in which lots of
libraries are already given.
the compiler is a one man show, which i am starting to doubt its
capability.
I am using a 20Mhz clock.

1. when i tried a

while(1){
led=0;
}

void on_timer_overflow(){
reset the timer to a value;
led=1;
}

i see the time taken for a period of short blast of 1 and then 0 is about
56us. is it too short? Which relates to about 17khZ. which is very slow
right?

2. assuming that i have very reliable transmission rate of 19200bps. and
rs232 has 1 start and 1 stop, each frame is 10 bits.
each frame is 520us.

3. nyqust states 2*bw. voice of 4k thus sampling of 8k is required.
(bare
min)
each require sample time is 125us.


HENCE,

PROBLEM 1

i can see a contradiction between pt 2 and 3. with 8 bits and that i use
a
typical voice coding dpm, i at least 2 bits for each sample. (is it
enough)???? i can only pack 4 sample in each 520us instead of 5. not to
mention that it is the bare min sampling. and if i do companding i dun
even
know if it helps..



please advise. or get me a new direction? i tried to find some codec
chips
but as i am in melb. i can only find the etc5057. oki semiconductor.
it is very complex and it has get me thinking if i should change my
direction.

PROBLEM 2

IN addition, as i mentioned that due to 1. the loop time is 56us. we need
1
sample per 125us. how can we find time to do transmission using rs232 -
requiers 520us.


i realise that i can either go into assembly or change a compiler( i am
running out of time , i presume)
or use a codec chip? i cant find one that is easy to use.

i can too use real time programming BUT due to the inherent slow speed, i
dun think i can. (leading slow context switching)

I presumed that the best way out is to use a codec chip which is able do
data transmission.


The PIC 16F876 can run at up to 312.5 kbaud from a 20MHz clock, just pick a
Click to expand...
faster baud rate to get the data through, simple.
A second serial port can be implemented in software (bit banged). There are
examples for various PICs on the microchip website.

All that being said, asking a student to use a PIC in this sort of
application must be the academic equivalent of the old army punishment of
cleaning the dunny with a toothbrush, just pure sadism. It can be done, but
for a couple of dollars more a flash DSP or at least a general purpose
processor with a reasonable architecture (like the MSP430, AVR or any ARM)
would be my choice.

Cheers,
Alf
 
=)

Perhaps, that is why no demonstration prototype has been built by the
lecturers to "convince" us.

Btw, what do you mean by bit bang?

I am using a 20Mhz, i suppose it is due to the inefficiency of the compiler
that I was instructed to use.



Thanks.


"Unbeliever" <alfkatz@remove.the.bleedin.obvious.ieee.org> wrote in message
news:41444616$0$9653$afc38c87@news.optusnet.com.au...
"Yoong Ping, Lim" <wincluster@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:4143a60f$1@news.rivernet.com.au...
Hi there,

I am doing a project on 16f876s addressing the above mentioned. The
objective is to use one 16f876 to adc the voice from a mic and then
transmit
in to the other end 's pic using rs232.

I am struck at obtaining intelligentable voice and has the below
observations that has made been worrying me if I am placing on the wrong
directions.

I am currently using a relatively high level c compiler , wiz c,
professional edition. It is very high level in the sense in which lots
of
libraries are already given.
the compiler is a one man show, which i am starting to doubt its
capability.
I am using a 20Mhz clock.

1. when i tried a

while(1){
led=0;
}

void on_timer_overflow(){
reset the timer to a value;
led=1;
}

i see the time taken for a period of short blast of 1 and then 0 is
about
56us. is it too short? Which relates to about 17khZ. which is very
slow
right?

2. assuming that i have very reliable transmission rate of 19200bps.
and
rs232 has 1 start and 1 stop, each frame is 10 bits.
each frame is 520us.

3. nyqust states 2*bw. voice of 4k thus sampling of 8k is required.
(bare
min)
each require sample time is 125us.


HENCE,

PROBLEM 1

i can see a contradiction between pt 2 and 3. with 8 bits and that i
use
a
typical voice coding dpm, i at least 2 bits for each sample. (is it
enough)???? i can only pack 4 sample in each 520us instead of 5. not to
mention that it is the bare min sampling. and if i do companding i dun
even
know if it helps..



please advise. or get me a new direction? i tried to find some codec
chips
but as i am in melb. i can only find the etc5057. oki semiconductor.
it is very complex and it has get me thinking if i should change my
direction.

PROBLEM 2

IN addition, as i mentioned that due to 1. the loop time is 56us. we
need
1
sample per 125us. how can we find time to do transmission using rs232 -
requiers 520us.


i realise that i can either go into assembly or change a compiler( i am
running out of time , i presume)
or use a codec chip? i cant find one that is easy to use.

i can too use real time programming BUT due to the inherent slow speed,
i
dun think i can. (leading slow context switching)

I presumed that the best way out is to use a codec chip which is able do
data transmission.


The PIC 16F876 can run at up to 312.5 kbaud from a 20MHz clock, just pick
a
faster baud rate to get the data through, simple.
A second serial port can be implemented in software (bit banged). There
are
examples for various PICs on the microchip website.

All that being said, asking a student to use a PIC in this sort of
application must be the academic equivalent of the old army punishment of
cleaning the dunny with a toothbrush, just pure sadism. It can be done,
but
for a couple of dollars more a flash DSP or at least a general purpose
processor with a reasonable architecture (like the MSP430, AVR or any ARM)
would be my choice.

Cheers,
Alf
Click to expand...
 
Don, can you please advise me what is the help group ?


"Don McKenzie" <look@my.sig.com> wrote in message
news:2qicsrFvch7mU1@uni-berlin.de...
Yoong Ping, Lim wrote:

Hi there,

I am doing a project on 16f876s addressing the above mentioned. The
objective is to use one 16f876 to adc the voice from a mic and then
transmit
in to the other end 's pic using rs232.

I am struck at obtaining intelligentable voice and has the below
observations that has made been worrying me if I am placing on the wrong
directions.

I am currently using a relatively high level c compiler , wiz c,
professional edition. It is very high level in the sense in which lots
of
libraries are already given.
the compiler is a one man show, which i am starting to doubt its
capability.
I am using a 20Mhz clock.

why not ask on the help group that has been set up for it?

details at:
http://www.dontronics.com/chat.html
Cheers Don...


--
Don McKenzie
E-Mail Contact Page: http://www.e-dotcom.com/ecp.php?un=Dontronics

USB to RS232 Converter that works http://www.dontronics.com/usb_232.html
Don's Free Guide To Spam Reduction http://www.e-dotcom.com/spam_exp.php
Click to expand...
 
Btw, what do you mean by bit bang?

Basically using software to output the serial character one bit at a time
Click to expand...
out through a port pin, timing the output to the required baud rate.

From http://www.hyperdictionary.com/computing/bit+bang

Definition: Transmission of data on a serial line accomplished by
rapidly changing a single output bit, in software, at the appropriate times.
The technique is a simple loop with eight OUT and SHIFT instruction pairs
for each byte. Input is more interesting. And full-duplex (doing input and
output at the same time) is one way to separate the real hackers from the
wannabees.





Cheers,
Alf
 
Contact me privately and I'll send you some code.

Al

Yoong Ping, Lim wrote:
Hi there,

I am doing a project on 16f876s addressing the above mentioned. The
objective is to use one 16f876 to adc the voice from a mic and then transmit
in to the other end 's pic using rs232.

I am struck at obtaining intelligentable voice and has the below
observations that has made been worrying me if I am placing on the wrong
directions.

I am currently using a relatively high level c compiler , wiz c,
professional edition. It is very high level in the sense in which lots of
libraries are already given.
the compiler is a one man show, which i am starting to doubt its capability.
I am using a 20Mhz clock.

1. when i tried a

while(1){
led=0;
}

void on_timer_overflow(){
reset the timer to a value;
led=1;
}

i see the time taken for a period of short blast of 1 and then 0 is about
56us. is it too short? Which relates to about 17khZ. which is very slow
right?

2. assuming that i have very reliable transmission rate of 19200bps. and
rs232 has 1 start and 1 stop, each frame is 10 bits.
each frame is 520us.

3. nyqust states 2*bw. voice of 4k thus sampling of 8k is required. (bare
min)
each require sample time is 125us.


HENCE,

PROBLEM 1

i can see a contradiction between pt 2 and 3. with 8 bits and that i use a
typical voice coding dpm, i at least 2 bits for each sample. (is it
enough)???? i can only pack 4 sample in each 520us instead of 5. not to
mention that it is the bare min sampling. and if i do companding i dun even
know if it helps..



please advise. or get me a new direction? i tried to find some codec chips
but as i am in melb. i can only find the etc5057. oki semiconductor.
it is very complex and it has get me thinking if i should change my
direction.

PROBLEM 2

IN addition, as i mentioned that due to 1. the loop time is 56us. we need 1
sample per 125us. how can we find time to do transmission using rs232 -
requiers 520us.


i realise that i can either go into assembly or change a compiler( i am
running out of time , i presume)
or use a codec chip? i cant find one that is easy to use.

i can too use real time programming BUT due to the inherent slow speed, i
dun think i can. (leading slow context switching)

I presumed that the best way out is to use a codec chip which is able do
data transmission.
Click to expand...
--
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