AC Plug Pack (wall wart) plugs - suggestions please...

D

david eather

Guest
I have in mind a project that will use AC Plug Packs. For safety and
legal reasons I can\'t change that, but I am troubled by the low voltage
power plugs supplied. They are 2.1mm round plugs just like those on
almost any DC plug Pack.

Time marches on plug packs get mixed in together and \"hey this fits\" and
pzzzt... magic smoke happens to someones piece of kit.

are there suggestions for an alternative plug to use. Doesn\'t need to be
polarized (of course), but something hot plug-able would be nice.

Any suggestions?
 
On 2/09/2020 12:01 pm, david eather wrote:
I have in mind a project that will use AC Plug Packs. For safety and
legal reasons I can\'t change that, but I am troubled by the low voltage
power plugs supplied. They are 2.1mm round plugs just like those on
almost any DC plug Pack.

Time marches on plug packs get mixed in together and \"hey this fits\" and
pzzzt... magic smoke happens to someones piece of kit.

are there suggestions for an alternative plug to use. Doesn\'t need to be
polarized (of course), but something hot plug-able would be nice.

Any suggestions?
Click to expand...

im pretty sure there are no good options, but I,m just checking
 
On 9/1/2020 7:01 PM, david eather wrote:
I have in mind a project that will use AC Plug Packs. For safety and legal
reasons I can\'t change that, but I am troubled by the low voltage power plugs
supplied. They are 2.1mm round plugs just like those on almost any DC plug Pack.

Time marches on plug packs get mixed in together and \"hey this fits\" and
pzzzt... magic smoke happens to someones piece of kit.

are there suggestions for an alternative plug to use. Doesn\'t need to be
polarized (of course), but something hot plug-able would be nice.

Any suggestions?
Click to expand...

So, your \"wall wart\" delivers AC?

Can you put a bridge just inboard of the connector and cover the
DC +, DC -, and AC cases?

[You\'re still at the mercy of wrong voltage rating...]
 
david eather wrote:

==================
I have in mind a project that will use AC Plug Packs. For safety and
legal reasons I can\'t change that, but I am troubled by the low voltage
power plugs supplied. They are 2.1mm round plugs just like those on
almost any DC plug Pack.

Time marches on plug packs get mixed in together and \"hey this fits\" and
pzzzt... magic smoke happens to someones piece of kit.


** Though possible this rarely happens.
Click to expand...

You need to clearly label your AC pack with the name of the item it goes with and a warning that it be used with no other.

Try to make the item damage proof if used with a DC pak up to 12V.


...... Phil
 
On Tuesday, September 1, 2020 at 7:01:50 PM UTC-7, david eather wrote:
I have in mind a project that will use AC Plug Packs. For safety and
legal reasons I can\'t change that, but I am troubled by the low voltage
power plug...
Time marches on plug packs get mixed in together and \"hey this fits\" and
pzzzt... magic smoke happens to someones piece of kit.
Click to expand...

First suggestion: make sure the inlet port is clearly labeled, both polarity
and voltage, DC or otherwise. Hope for curious folk to find the
specification, and test for fit of the mechanical bits.

Less interesting: if you use an AC pack, in-the-device bridge or voltage-doubler
rectification, then follow up with a switchmode supply, you can\'t get
the wrong polarity, and maybe can tolerate the highest of the safe-low-voltage
input possibilities. I\'ve done this with 36-70VDC telecom power modules, it works
(within limits, at a cost).
 
On 2020-09-02, whit3rd <whit3rd@gmail.com> wrote:
On Tuesday, September 1, 2020 at 7:01:50 PM UTC-7, david eather wrote:
I have in mind a project that will use AC Plug Packs. For safety and
legal reasons I can\'t change that, but I am troubled by the low voltage
power plug...
Time marches on plug packs get mixed in together and \"hey this fits\" and
pzzzt... magic smoke happens to someones piece of kit.

First suggestion: make sure the inlet port is clearly labeled, both polarity
and voltage, DC or otherwise. Hope for curious folk to find the
specification, and test for fit of the mechanical bits.

Less interesting: if you use an AC pack, in-the-device bridge or voltage-doubler
rectification, then follow up with a switchmode supply, you can\'t get
the wrong polarity, and maybe can tolerate the highest of the safe-low-voltage
input possibilities. I\'ve done this with 36-70VDC telecom power modules, it works
(within limits, at a cost).
Click to expand...

I once spent 20 minutes on the phone to customer support for a device
(a very important IEEE 802.3 to IEEE 1284 converter needed for payroll)
because the power pack had gone missing, just while they were telling
me that I had to have their genuide power pack, the screwless case came
open in my hands to reveal a bridge rectifier, 100uF cap and an LM7805.
I soon found a suitable power pack.

--
Jasen.
 
On Wednesday, 2 September 2020 03:01:50 UTC+1, david eather wrote:

I have in mind a project that will use AC Plug Packs. For safety and
legal reasons I can\'t change that, but I am troubled by the low voltage
power plugs supplied. They are 2.1mm round plugs just like those on
almost any DC plug Pack.

Time marches on plug packs get mixed in together and \"hey this fits\" and
pzzzt... magic smoke happens to someones piece of kit.

are there suggestions for an alternative plug to use. Doesn\'t need to be
polarized (of course), but something hot plug-able would be nice.

Any suggestions?
Click to expand...

One simple solution is run the kit at the highest commonish wart voltage, 30 or 32v. And always make your warts output ac so psu polarity doesn\'t matter. Another is to add overvoltage protection. Another is to have the dc socket insde the appliance case. Another is to put the whole wart inside the appliance with just a mains connector user accessible. etc etc.


NT
 
On 02/09/2020 03:01, david eather wrote:
I have in mind a project that will use AC Plug Packs. For safety and
legal reasons I can\'t change that, but I am troubled by the low voltage
power plugs supplied. They are 2.1mm round plugs just like those on
almost any DC plug Pack.

Time marches on plug packs get mixed in together and \"hey this fits\" and
pzzzt... magic smoke happens to someones piece of kit.

are there suggestions for an alternative plug to use. Doesn\'t need to be
polarized (of course), but something hot plug-able would be nice.

Any suggestions?
Click to expand...

Use two connectors, one for each pole.

--
Cheers
Clive
 
On 2020-09-01 22:18, david eather wrote:
On 2/09/2020 12:01 pm, david eather wrote:
I have in mind a project that will use AC Plug Packs. For safety and
legal reasons I can\'t change that, but I am troubled by the low
voltage power plugs supplied. They are 2.1mm round plugs just like
those on almost any DC plug Pack.

Time marches on plug packs get mixed in together and \"hey this fits\"
and pzzzt... magic smoke happens to someones piece of kit.

are there suggestions for an alternative plug to use. Doesn\'t need to
be polarized (of course), but something hot plug-able would be nice.

Any suggestions?

im pretty sure there are no good options, but I,m just checking
Click to expand...

The only vaguely common alternatives I\'ve seen are round DIN plugs or
3.5 mm phone plugs. BITD modems ran off 24VAC warts with those same
round connectors. A D-sub might work.

Alternatively, nearly all the warts I\'ve seen use 2.1 or 2.5 mm centre
pins, 5.5 mm outside. Maybe use an odd size, like this one?

<https://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/cui-devices/PPM-2-35135-S1/102-4709-ND/9486620>

Cheers

Phil Hobbs

--
Dr Philip C D Hobbs
Principal Consultant
ElectroOptical Innovations LLC / Hobbs ElectroOptics
Optics, Electro-optics, Photonics, Analog Electronics
Briarcliff Manor NY 10510

http://electrooptical.net
http://hobbs-eo.com
 
On 2/09/2020 12:35 pm, Phil Allison wrote:
david eather wrote:

==================
I have in mind a project that will use AC Plug Packs. For safety and
legal reasons I can\'t change that, but I am troubled by the low voltage
power plugs supplied. They are 2.1mm round plugs just like those on
almost any DC plug Pack.

Time marches on plug packs get mixed in together and \"hey this fits\" and
pzzzt... magic smoke happens to someones piece of kit.


** Though possible this rarely happens.
Click to expand...

Sadly, I confess I have done it. An LED clock that used 5volts got it\'s
own wake up call when I plugged 12 volts into it. I really needed the
clock and I liked it too.

You need to clearly label your AC pack with the name of the item it goes with and a warning that it be used with no other.
Click to expand...

Yep, I was thinking that would be the best I could do.

Thanks

Try to make the item damage proof if used with a DC pak up to 12V.


..... Phil
Click to expand...
 
On 2/09/2020 9:28 pm, Phil Hobbs wrote:
On 2020-09-01 22:18, david eather wrote:
On 2/09/2020 12:01 pm, david eather wrote:
I have in mind a project that will use AC Plug Packs. For safety and
legal reasons I can\'t change that, but I am troubled by the low
voltage power plugs supplied. They are 2.1mm round plugs just like
those on almost any DC plug Pack.

Time marches on plug packs get mixed in together and \"hey this fits\"
and pzzzt... magic smoke happens to someones piece of kit.

are there suggestions for an alternative plug to use. Doesn\'t need to
be polarized (of course), but something hot plug-able would be nice.

Any suggestions?

im pretty sure there are no good options, but I,m just checking

The only vaguely common alternatives I\'ve seen are round DIN plugs or
3.5 mm phone plugs.  BITD modems ran off 24VAC warts with those same
round connectors.  A D-sub might work.

Alternatively, nearly all the warts I\'ve seen use 2.1 or 2.5 mm centre
pins, 5.5 mm outside.  Maybe use an odd size, like this one?

https://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/cui-devices/PPM-2-35135-S1/102-4709-ND/9486620


Cheers

Phil Hobbs
Click to expand...

I think they are used in Android devices.
 
On 2/09/2020 9:09 pm, Clive Arthur wrote:
On 02/09/2020 03:01, david eather wrote:
I have in mind a project that will use AC Plug Packs. For safety and
legal reasons I can\'t change that, but I am troubled by the low
voltage power plugs supplied. They are 2.1mm round plugs just like
those on almost any DC plug Pack.

Time marches on plug packs get mixed in together and \"hey this fits\"
and pzzzt... magic smoke happens to someones piece of kit.

are there suggestions for an alternative plug to use. Doesn\'t need to
be polarized (of course), but something hot plug-able would be nice.

Any suggestions?

Use two connectors, one for each pole.
Click to expand...

That will work.
 
On 2/09/2020 12:01 pm, david eather wrote:
I have in mind a project that will use AC Plug Packs. For safety and
legal reasons I can\'t change that, but I am troubled by the low voltage
power plugs supplied. They are 2.1mm round plugs just like those on
almost any DC plug Pack.

Time marches on plug packs get mixed in together and \"hey this fits\" and
pzzzt... magic smoke happens to someones piece of kit.

are there suggestions for an alternative plug to use. Doesn\'t need to be
polarized (of course), but something hot plug-able would be nice.

Any suggestions?
Click to expand...

Thank you all. I think clear labels is the only practical and
aesthetically acceptable solution. Sometimes you can\'t fully protect
against stupid.
 
On 9/2/2020 2:50 PM, david eather wrote:
On 2/09/2020 12:01 pm, david eather wrote:
I have in mind a project that will use AC Plug Packs. For safety and legal
reasons I can\'t change that, but I am troubled by the low voltage power plugs
supplied. They are 2.1mm round plugs just like those on almost any DC plug Pack.

Time marches on plug packs get mixed in together and \"hey this fits\" and
pzzzt... magic smoke happens to someones piece of kit.

are there suggestions for an alternative plug to use. Doesn\'t need to be
polarized (of course), but something hot plug-able would be nice.

Any suggestions?

Thank you all. I think clear labels is the only practical and aesthetically
acceptable solution. Sometimes you can\'t fully protect against stupid.
Click to expand...

While most manufacturers distribute wall warts that just bear \"generic\"
labeling (Vin@Iin, Vou@Iout), you could actually tag the wall wart with
a label indicating its PURPOSE: \"Frajistat9000 Power Supply\".

Of course, then you can\'t leverage a common part for multiple devices
(and may require the wall wart vendor to label them for you)

I have systematically gone through EVERY wall wart, brick and \"other\"
power adapter, here, and affixed labels declaring their intended mates.
I find it makes it a lot easier to ensure the correct power adapter
stays with its intended device (as power adapters seem to \"congregate\"
and lose their distinguishing identities!)

[The ptouch labelers are great for this sort of thing]

I also label *devices* that seem to shy away from clearly identifying
their make/model -- so I can later figure out which device mates to
a particular wall wart (what good is labeling the wall wart if you
can\'t identify the device??)

Ah, the \"benefits\" of having everything \"Hecho en China\"... :<
 
Clive Arthur wrote:
Use two connectors, one for each pole.
Click to expand...

Is that a Polish joke? :)


--
Never piss off an Engineer!

They don\'t get mad.

They don\'t get even.

They go for over unity! ;-)
 
On Thursday, 3 September 2020 14:39:07 UTC+1, Michael_A_Terrell wrote:
Clive Arthur wrote:

Use two connectors, one for each pole.


Is that a Polish joke? :)
Click to expand...

one shared between 2 poles.
 
On 2020-09-02 17:45, david eather wrote:
On 2/09/2020 9:28 pm, Phil Hobbs wrote:
On 2020-09-01 22:18, david eather wrote:
On 2/09/2020 12:01 pm, david eather wrote:
I have in mind a project that will use AC Plug Packs. For safety and
legal reasons I can\'t change that, but I am troubled by the low
voltage power plugs supplied. They are 2.1mm round plugs just like
those on almost any DC plug Pack.

Time marches on plug packs get mixed in together and \"hey this fits\"
and pzzzt... magic smoke happens to someones piece of kit.

are there suggestions for an alternative plug to use. Doesn\'t need
to be polarized (of course), but something hot plug-able would be nice.

Any suggestions?

im pretty sure there are no good options, but I,m just checking

The only vaguely common alternatives I\'ve seen are round DIN plugs or
3.5 mm phone plugs.  BITD modems ran off 24VAC warts with those same
round connectors.  A D-sub might work.

Alternatively, nearly all the warts I\'ve seen use 2.1 or 2.5 mm centre
pins, 5.5 mm outside.  Maybe use an odd size, like this one?

https://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/cui-devices/PPM-2-35135-S1/102-4709-ND/9486620


Cheers

Phil Hobbs


I think they are used in Android devices.
Click to expand...

Sure, they\'re going to be used by somebody, or they wouldn\'t still be
available. The key is to make the conjunction rare.

Cheers

Phil Hobbs

--
Dr Philip C D Hobbs
Principal Consultant
ElectroOptical Innovations LLC / Hobbs ElectroOptics
Optics, Electro-optics, Photonics, Analog Electronics
Briarcliff Manor NY 10510

http://electrooptical.net
http://hobbs-eo.com
 
On 2020-09-02 17:44, david eather wrote:
On 2/09/2020 12:35 pm, Phil Allison wrote:
david eather wrote:

==================
I have in mind a project that will use AC Plug Packs. For safety and
legal reasons I can\'t change that, but I am troubled by the low voltage
power plugs supplied. They are 2.1mm round plugs just like those on
almost any DC plug Pack.

Time marches on plug packs get mixed in together and \"hey this fits\" and
pzzzt... magic smoke happens to someones piece of kit.


** Though possible this rarely happens.

Sadly, I confess I have done it. An LED clock that used 5volts got it\'s
own wake up call when I plugged 12 volts into it.  I really needed the
clock and I liked it too.
Click to expand...

That\'s why we standardized on +24V. AC won\'t kill our boxes because of
the unidirectional TVS, series Schottky rectifier, and polyfuse.
However, as you go lower in voltage, your box will draw more operating
current, so it\'ll require that much more fault current to switch the
polyfuse if somebody plugs in the wrong wart.

  You need to clearly label your AC pack with the name of the item it
goes with and a warning that it be used with no other.

Yep, I was thinking that would be the best I could do.

Thanks


Try to make the item damage proof if used with a DC pak up to 12V.
Click to expand...

24V at least.

Cheers

Phil Hobbs

--
Dr Philip C D Hobbs
Principal Consultant
ElectroOptical Innovations LLC / Hobbs ElectroOptics
Optics, Electro-optics, Photonics, Analog Electronics
Briarcliff Manor NY 10510

http://electrooptical.net
http://hobbs-eo.com
 
On 2020-09-02 05:44, Tabby wrote:
On Wednesday, 2 September 2020 03:01:50 UTC+1, david eather wrote:

I have in mind a project that will use AC Plug Packs. For safety and
legal reasons I can\'t change that, but I am troubled by the low voltage
power plugs supplied. They are 2.1mm round plugs just like those on
almost any DC plug Pack.

Time marches on plug packs get mixed in together and \"hey this fits\" and
pzzzt... magic smoke happens to someones piece of kit.

are there suggestions for an alternative plug to use. Doesn\'t need to be
polarized (of course), but something hot plug-able would be nice.

Any suggestions?

One simple solution is run the kit at the highest commonish wart voltage, 30 or 32v. And always make your warts output ac so psu polarity doesn\'t matter. Another is to add overvoltage protection. Another is to have the dc socket insde the appliance case. Another is to put the whole wart inside the appliance with just a mains connector user accessible. etc etc.
Click to expand...

I gather you\'re retired. ;)

AFAICT the use of AC warts mostly went out with the 56kbaud modem, and
for good reason. That approach requires gigundo wet Al filter caps and
so on in order to be able to handle 50-60 Hz AC. What a waste.

Cheers

Phil Hobbs

--
Dr Philip C D Hobbs
Principal Consultant
ElectroOptical Innovations LLC / Hobbs ElectroOptics
Optics, Electro-optics, Photonics, Analog Electronics
Briarcliff Manor NY 10510

http://electrooptical.net
http://hobbs-eo.com
 
On Thu, 3 Sep 2020 18:30:06 -0400, Phil Hobbs
<pcdhSpamMeSenseless@electrooptical.net> wrote:

On 2020-09-02 17:44, david eather wrote:
On 2/09/2020 12:35 pm, Phil Allison wrote:
david eather wrote:

==================
I have in mind a project that will use AC Plug Packs. For safety and
legal reasons I can\'t change that, but I am troubled by the low voltage
power plugs supplied. They are 2.1mm round plugs just like those on
almost any DC plug Pack.

Time marches on plug packs get mixed in together and \"hey this fits\" and
pzzzt... magic smoke happens to someones piece of kit.


** Though possible this rarely happens.

Sadly, I confess I have done it. An LED clock that used 5volts got it\'s
own wake up call when I plugged 12 volts into it.  I really needed the
clock and I liked it too.

That\'s why we standardized on +24V. AC won\'t kill our boxes because of
the unidirectional TVS, series Schottky rectifier, and polyfuse.
However, as you go lower in voltage, your box will draw more operating
current, so it\'ll require that much more fault current to switch the
polyfuse if somebody plugs in the wrong wart.

  You need to clearly label your AC pack with the name of the item it
goes with and a warning that it be used with no other.

Yep, I was thinking that would be the best I could do.

Thanks


Try to make the item damage proof if used with a DC pak up to 12V.

24V at least.

Cheers

Phil Hobbs
Click to expand...

We like 24 because it\'s unlikely that anybody has a higher voltage
wart around, to plug in by mistake.

Of course, my new pulse generator ships with a 48v wart!
 
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