ABEL support for legacy chips

E

Eirik Seljelid

Guest
Hi.

I have an old ABEL source code (no JEDEC´s) for an 82S100/PLS100 FPLA.
Problem is that I can't find any company supporting ABEL compilers for
these chips anymore. Xilinx, which aquired Synario/ABEL from Dataio,
does only support it's own families of FPGAS/CPLDS. ABEL support for
small PLDS has been taken over by Lattice also supporting only their own
PLD families. Anyone know if Xilinx released legacy ABEL compilers as
freeware, opensource or similar?

Eirik
 
Eirik Seljelid wrote:
Hi.

I have an old ABEL source code (no JEDEC´s) for an 82S100/PLS100 FPLA.
Problem is that I can't find any company supporting ABEL compilers for
these chips anymore.
Click to expand...
That's because no one makes the chips anymore.....

That said, I see you CAN still actually buy the PLS100, and I also
see my PLD programmer still shows a PLS100 on the menu...

Xilinx, which aquired Synario/ABEL from Dataio,
does only support it's own families of FPGAS/CPLDS. ABEL support for
small PLDS has been taken over by Lattice also supporting only their own
PLD families. Anyone know if Xilinx released legacy ABEL compilers as
freeware, opensource or similar?
Click to expand...
Nope - Xilinx's response will be to tell you to take your ABEL source,
and recompile for a CoolRunner CPLD.
( but that does not retrofit too easily into a PLS100 socket.)

The Xilinx ABEL has a certain amount of inbuilt ability, and it looks
like, if you really want to, you can get PLA and BLIF files from the
current Xilinx ABEL flows.

What you then need is the relevent Signetics PLS100 fitter, or you
could look for the Signetics software - IIRC their SW called Amaze
supported the PLS100, and it had a successor called SLICE, but both
are ancient.

Or, you could look for a device similar to the PLS100, but still
in production, such as the ICT PA7536 or PA7540 ?

ICT offer current software to support these devices.
See http://www.anachip.com/eng/product/pld.php

The 22V10 is still quite active (Atmel, ICT, Lattice), but has fewer
total pins than a PLS100.

-jg
 
"Jim Granville" <no.spam@designtools.co.nz> wrote in message
news:1qgRc.2273$zS6.270874@news02.tsnz.net...
Eirik Seljelid wrote:
Hi.

I have an old ABEL source code (no JEDEC´s) for an 82S100/PLS100 FPLA.
Problem is that I can't find any company supporting ABEL compilers for
these chips anymore.

That's because no one makes the chips anymore.....

That said, I see you CAN still actually buy the PLS100, and I also
see my PLD programmer still shows a PLS100 on the menu...

Xilinx, which aquired Synario/ABEL from Dataio,
does only support it's own families of FPGAS/CPLDS. ABEL support for
small PLDS has been taken over by Lattice also supporting only their own
PLD families. Anyone know if Xilinx released legacy ABEL compilers as
freeware, opensource or similar?

Nope - Xilinx's response will be to tell you to take your ABEL source,
and recompile for a CoolRunner CPLD.
( but that does not retrofit too easily into a PLS100 socket.)
Click to expand...
I would design a small PCB for the new CPLD that would plug in to the old
device socket.

Leon
 
Jim Granville wrote:
Eirik Seljelid wrote:

Hi.

I have an old ABEL source code (no JEDEC´s) for an 82S100/PLS100 FPLA.
Problem is that I can't find any company supporting ABEL compilers for
these chips anymore.


That's because no one makes the chips anymore.....

That said, I see you CAN still actually buy the PLS100, and I also
see my PLD programmer still shows a PLS100 on the menu...

Xilinx, which aquired Synario/ABEL from Dataio, does only support it's
own families of FPGAS/CPLDS. ABEL support for small PLDS has been
taken over by Lattice also supporting only their own PLD families.
Anyone know if Xilinx released legacy ABEL compilers as freeware,
opensource or similar?


Nope - Xilinx's response will be to tell you to take your ABEL source,
and recompile for a CoolRunner CPLD.
( but that does not retrofit too easily into a PLS100 socket.)

The Xilinx ABEL has a certain amount of inbuilt ability, and it looks
like, if you really want to, you can get PLA and BLIF files from the
current Xilinx ABEL flows.

What you then need is the relevent Signetics PLS100 fitter, or you
could look for the Signetics software - IIRC their SW called Amaze
supported the PLS100, and it had a successor called SLICE, but both
are ancient.

Or, you could look for a device similar to the PLS100, but still
in production, such as the ICT PA7536 or PA7540 ?

ICT offer current software to support these devices.
See http://www.anachip.com/eng/product/pld.php

The 22V10 is still quite active (Atmel, ICT, Lattice), but has fewer
total pins than a PLS100.

-jg
Click to expand...
Thanks for answering. The 82S100 is now in production reintroduced to
the marked by QP Semi. Anyway, this is not an issue for me as my
organisation has 82S100's in-house in adequate numbers. My project
consist of replacing an older version of the programmed chip with a
newer one on a limited number of circuit cards. I have already
considered the PA7536, but I find it way easyer to get an older version
of ABEL, compile the code for 82S100 and burn the chips.

Eirik
 
Eirik Seljelid wrote:
Thanks for answering. The 82S100 is now in production reintroduced to
the marked by QP Semi. Anyway, this is not an issue for me as my
organisation has 82S100's in-house in adequate numbers. My project
consist of replacing an older version of the programmed chip with a
newer one on a limited number of circuit cards. I have already
considered the PA7536, but I find it way easyer to get an older version
of ABEL, compile the code for 82S100 and burn the chips.
Click to expand...
Wow, a PLS100 data sheet with June 2004 on it :)
Google did find what looks like (most of?) Amaze, here
http://www.filelibrary.com/Contents/DOS/80/
- in case you have problems finding an old ABEL
with the 82S100/PLS100.
You could also try direct fuse editing :)
-jg
 
Eirik Seljelid wrote:
considered the PA7536, but I find it way easyer to get an older version
of ABEL, compile the code for 82S100 and burn the chips.

Eirik,
Click to expand...

Have you located it? I'm not familiar with the 82S100. I have an
ancient version of ABEL, circa 1988. Is that too ancient?

Mike
 
mmock wrote:
Eirik Seljelid wrote:

considered the PA7536, but I find it way easyer to get an older version
of ABEL, compile the code for 82S100 and burn the chips.

Eirik,

Have you located it? I'm not familiar with the 82S100. I have an
ancient version of ABEL, circa 1988. Is that too ancient?

Mike
Click to expand...
Not sure. I've found Abel 2.0 and Abel 4.0 on the net and tried to
compile the source, but in both versions I got the message "fatal error:
out of memory". It worked when I tried to compile only parts of the source.

Eirik
 
Jim Granville wrote:

Eirik Seljelid wrote:

Thanks for answering. The 82S100 is now in production reintroduced to
the marked by QP Semi. Anyway, this is not an issue for me as my
organisation has 82S100's in-house in adequate numbers. My project
consist of replacing an older version of the programmed chip with a
newer one on a limited number of circuit cards. I have already
considered the PA7536, but I find it way easyer to get an older
version of ABEL, compile the code for 82S100 and burn the chips.


Wow, a PLS100 data sheet with June 2004 on it :)
Google did find what looks like (most of?) Amaze, here
http://www.filelibrary.com/Contents/DOS/80/
- in case you have problems finding an old ABEL
with the 82S100/PLS100.
You could also try direct fuse editing :)
-jg

Thanks, but I've found and downloaded it when you gave me the name.
Click to expand...
Haven't tried it though, as disk 2 was missing and I later on found Abel
on a web site.

Eirik
 
Eirik Seljelid wrote:

mmock wrote:

Eirik Seljelid wrote:

considered the PA7536, but I find it way easyer to get an older
version of ABEL, compile the code for 82S100 and burn the chips.


Eirik,

Have you located it? I'm not familiar with the 82S100. I have an
ancient version of ABEL, circa 1988. Is that too ancient?

Mike


Not sure. I've found Abel 2.0 and Abel 4.0 on the net and tried to
compile the source, but in both versions I got the message "fatal error:
out of memory". It worked when I tried to compile only parts of the source.
Click to expand...
Some (most?) ABEL's needed keys, this may be a security artifact ?
It is hard to believe the 82S100, which my info shows has just 1928
fuses (smaller than a 16V8), would tax memory ?
CUPL probably also supported the 82S100.
-jg
 
Jim Granville wrote:

Eirik Seljelid wrote:

mmock wrote:

Eirik Seljelid wrote:

considered the PA7536, but I find it way easyer to get an older
version of ABEL, compile the code for 82S100 and burn the chips.



Eirik,

Have you located it? I'm not familiar with the 82S100. I have an
ancient version of ABEL, circa 1988. Is that too ancient?

Mike



Not sure. I've found Abel 2.0 and Abel 4.0 on the net and tried to
compile the source, but in both versions I got the message "fatal
error: out of memory". It worked when I tried to compile only parts of
the source.


Some (most?) ABEL's needed keys, this may be a security artifact ?
It is hard to believe the 82S100, which my info shows has just 1928
fuses (smaller than a 16V8), would tax memory ?
CUPL probably also supported the 82S100.
-jg

Could be, but I suppose it would come up with an error message asking
Click to expand...
for valid keys or something like that. When I cutted down the source it
would compile. I haven't really set up an old dos environment yet so I
think I will try this as soon as I get the time to do it. AFAIK CUPL is
a different HDL than Abel, which means I have to rewrite the source to
CUPL syntax. My HDL programming experience is somewhat limited. I've
written some PLD-cicuits in PALASM and another GAL-assembler called
GALASM. Very basic, no high-level coding. Although I probably understand
most of the code I'm really not so keen on translating it. The equipment
using the FPLA also incorporates a serious amout of other PLD devices,
mostly 22V10's and EP600's, all documented with Abel source code.


Eirik
 
Eirik Seljelid wrote:
<snip>
Could be, but I suppose it would come up with an error message asking
for valid keys or something like that. When I cutted down the source it
would compile.
I haven't really set up an old dos environment yet so I
think I will try this as soon as I get the time to do it.
Click to expand...
Sounds close - at this point I would try something trivial like
8 NAND gates in a test file ( uses every pin ), and confirm you
get what looks like a valid JED file.


AFAIK CUPL is a different HDL than Abel, which means I have to rewrite the source to
CUPL syntax. My HDL programming experience is somewhat limited. I've
written some PLD-cicuits in PALASM and another GAL-assembler called
GALASM. Very basic, no high-level coding. Although I probably understand
most of the code I'm really not so keen on translating it. The equipment
using the FPLA also incorporates a serious amout of other PLD devices,
mostly 22V10's and EP600's, all documented with Abel source code.
Click to expand...
CUPL was suggested, should you hit a brick wall with ABEL, right now it
sounds more like a speed-bump..... :)
-jg
 
Jim Granville wrote:
Eirik Seljelid wrote:
snip

Could be, but I suppose it would come up with an error message asking
for valid keys or something like that. When I cutted down the source
it would compile.

I haven't really set up an old dos environment yet so I
think I will try this as soon as I get the time to do it.

Sounds close - at this point I would try something trivial like
8 NAND gates in a test file ( uses every pin ), and confirm you
get what looks like a valid JED file.


AFAIK CUPL is a different HDL than Abel, which means I have to rewrite
the source to CUPL syntax. My HDL programming experience is somewhat
limited. I've written some PLD-cicuits in PALASM and another
GAL-assembler called GALASM. Very basic, no high-level coding.
Although I probably understand most of the code I'm really not so keen
on translating it. The equipment using the FPLA also incorporates a
serious amout of other PLD devices, mostly 22V10's and EP600's, all
documented with Abel source code.


CUPL was suggested, should you hit a brick wall with ABEL, right now it
sounds more like a speed-bump..... :)
-jg
Click to expand...
Finally got the time to set up a box with DOS. Didn't help much though.
I guess you were right about the need for a licence key. It seems like
it worked for smaller designs, perhaps for evaluation purposes.

Eirik
 
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