A Stumper: PC is killing CD drives

I have an electronics repair problem that I hope the people in
this group can help me with.

I recently took possession of a used PC. (Pentium 200 MHz, 32 MB
RAM, 4 GB Quantum Bigfoot hard drive.) Everything works, except
that the CD drive reports a "drive D: not ready" error whenever
access was attempted. The previous owner told me that the CD
drive just stopped working one day. The drive was on the second
IDE interface, and was set for master device. This PC is running
Windows 95.

I put the drive on the first IDE interface, set it for slave, and
connected it to a different power connector. The problem
persisted.

I then removed this drive, and replaced it with another one that I
had in storage for a few months, and that was working when it was
taken out of its PC. This drive worked for a few days, and then
started giving the "drive not ready" error.

I then transplanted this drive into its old computer, where it had
been working, and the "drive not ready" error persisted. (This
old PC is running DOS and Windows 3.1, has a Cyrix P-200 (166 MHz)
cpu, and a 250 MB hard drive.) I checked slave/master settings
and BIOS settings, and did these tests with several CDs, including
one disk known to be readable on another PC.

The discs load and unload fine, and the light on the front of the
drive flashes when a disc is inserted, and then the light goes
out. It seems that this pre-owned PC is destroying any CD drive
that I install in it.

What could be causing this problem, and can these drives be
repaired? The CD player on the pre-owned PC is mounted right
below the Bigfoot hard drive. Could this be causing the CD drive
to overheat?

(I know something about electronics, but am not a professional.)

Thank you for any help.

--
This sig intentionally left blank.

 

[Bob M.]

Check the power supply voltages on the cable feeding the CD-ROM drive. RED
should be +5.0 volts plus or minus 0.1 volt or less. YELLOW should be +12.0
volts plus or minus 0.2 volts or less. The black wires are ground.

There's not much else in a PC that's capable of destroying a hard drive or
CD-ROM. Hard to believe it's just coincidence that they all go bad
eventually.

Also, make sure the mounting screws aren't longer than about 1/4 inch.
Longer ones can end up shorting things out inside or even preventing the
mechanism from functioning properly.

If you run the CD-ROM on the secondary IDE interface, it should be set to
MASTER. You would then run the hard drive on the primary IDE interface, also
set to MASTER (NO SLAVE PRESENT if that's an option).

A motherboard failure could be sending a bad voltage up the IDE cable to the
CD-ROM, but I'd expect other things to go wrong as well. Of course,
something as simple as a loose paper clip or staple could be floating around
on the motherboard and shorting things out. A thorough cleaning would not be
a bad thing to do.

Bob M.
======
<alicec@news.generic.com> wrote in message
news:slrnbm1h65.837.alicec@localhost.localdomain...

I have an electronics repair problem that I hope the people in
this group can help me with.

I recently took possession of a used PC. (Pentium 200 MHz, 32 MB
RAM, 4 GB Quantum Bigfoot hard drive.) Everything works, except
that the CD drive reports a "drive D: not ready" error whenever
access was attempted. The previous owner told me that the CD
drive just stopped working one day. The drive was on the second
IDE interface, and was set for master device. This PC is running
Windows 95.

I put the drive on the first IDE interface, set it for slave, and
connected it to a different power connector. The problem
persisted.

I then removed this drive, and replaced it with another one that I
had in storage for a few months, and that was working when it was
taken out of its PC. This drive worked for a few days, and then
started giving the "drive not ready" error.

I then transplanted this drive into its old computer, where it had
been working, and the "drive not ready" error persisted. (This
old PC is running DOS and Windows 3.1, has a Cyrix P-200 (166 MHz)
cpu, and a 250 MB hard drive.) I checked slave/master settings
and BIOS settings, and did these tests with several CDs, including
one disk known to be readable on another PC.

The discs load and unload fine, and the light on the front of the
drive flashes when a disc is inserted, and then the light goes
out. It seems that this pre-owned PC is destroying any CD drive
that I install in it.

What could be causing this problem, and can these drives be
repaired? The CD player on the pre-owned PC is mounted right
below the Bigfoot hard drive. Could this be causing the CD drive
to overheat?

(I know something about electronics, but am not a professional.)

Thank you for any help.

--
This sig intentionally left blank.

 

[Bob M.]

You'll get no arguments from me. I figured there was a real spec somewhere.
I was just giving him/her some good, realistic (no association with
RadioCrap) voltage readings that should be present. If things are several
volts high, then that is most likely a problem; if the voltages are low, I
would not expect damage but poor operation and eventual system failures.

Bob M.
======
"JW" <none@dev.nul> wrote in message
news:hta3mvo0psef2fdupqtlo5nhm8b0drku43@4ax.com...

On Thu, 11 Sep 2003 18:07:17 -0400 "Bob M." <xxxxx@yyyy.zzz> wrote in
Message id: <MUadnU_3Ksiab_2iU-KYuQ@comcast.com>:

Check the power supply voltages on the cable feeding the CD-ROM drive.
RED
should be +5.0 volts plus or minus 0.1 volt or less. YELLOW should be
+12.0
volts plus or minus 0.2 volts or less. The black wires are ground.

[snip]

While I agree with every other thing you said in your post, for a typical
ATX power supply the load regulation is +-5% on 12VDC and 5VDC (11.4 to
12.6 volts) and (4.75 to 5.25VDC) respectively.

See http://www.sparklepower.com/pdf/FSP300-60GRE.pdf FREX.

 

[Cher]

My PC killed a few hard drive until I figured out it was power
failures that were doing it. If the power interuption is about 1 sec,
that seemed to do it. Shorter or longer ones didn't seem to effect it.
Have had no problems since I put a UPS on it.

 

On Thu, 11 Sep 2003 18:07:17 -0400, Bob M. <xxxxx@yyyy.zzz> wrote:

Check the power supply voltages on the cable feeding the CD-ROM drive. RED
should be +5.0 volts plus or minus 0.1 volt or less. YELLOW should be +12.0
volts plus or minus 0.2 volts or less. The black wires are ground.

OK, I'll check this.

....

Also, make sure the mounting screws aren't longer than about 1/4 inch.
Longer ones can end up shorting things out inside or even preventing the
mechanism from functioning properly.

I think I used the mounting screws that came with the drive that I swapped
into the PC, but in either case, why would the drive work for a few days
before breaking?

If you run the CD-ROM on the secondary IDE interface, it should be set to
MASTER. You would then run the hard drive on the primary IDE interface, also
set to MASTER (NO SLAVE PRESENT if that's an option).

The old drive was secondary master when it stopped working. The replacement
drive was primary slave when it stopped working.

A motherboard failure could be sending a bad voltage up the IDE cable to the
CD-ROM, but I'd expect other things to go wrong as well. Of course,
something as simple as a loose paper clip or staple could be floating around
on the motherboard and shorting things out. A thorough cleaning would not be
a bad thing to do.

I gave it a good cleaning when I first got it.
Any other ideas?

Bob M.

Thanks.

 

[JURB6006]

The ups isn't going to save you. If it weren't for low voltage protection, and
you had the PS lightly loaded, meaning one HD, no super hungry processor, no
nine fans etc., the PS will put out until the main filter for the raw B+
discharged down to say 65 volts. One half of the normal rectified voltage (80V)
will usually do it, and if it's got two 680ufs, I'm pretty sure you could get
past one second.

The problem is that the thing knows it lost power. Basically it shouldn't screw
anything up, and unless it's spiking too high of a voltage, the only thing
dropouts should be able to do is possibly damage the firmware.

Incedentally, if you are having 1 second power interruptions, I hope it isn't a
loose wire in your house. Loose wires cause fires. You might want to look into
that.

JURB

 

[jakdedert]

I've not followed this thread sequentially, but I just realized the only the
removable media drives are involved.

Has anyone looked into the possibility of simple *dirt* in the drives? Any
other environmental, as opposed to electrical issues?

Sorry if this has been covered already.

jak

"Sam Goldwasser" <sam@saul.cis.upenn.edu> wrote in message
news:6wad95pscc.fsf@saul.cis.upenn.edu...

alicec@news.generic.com () writes:

Another part of the riddle is that the hard drive hasn't been affected,
and that is hooked to the same power supply. Could a voltage surplus
harm the CD drive and not the hard drive?

In principle, yes. The laser diode is a lot more sensitive to very
slight current spikes than most other electronics. In practice,
I rather doubt this to be the cause.

--- sam | Sci.Electronics.Repair FAQ Home Page: http://www.repairfaq.org/
Repair | Main Table of Contents: http://www.repairfaq.org/REPAIR/
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| Mirror Site Info: http://www.repairfaq.org/REPAIR/F_mirror.html

Important: The email address in this message header may no longer work.
To
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On Sat, 13 Sep 2003 20:05:56 GMT, Cher <ccher@your.place> wrote:

My PC killed a few hard drive until I figured out it was power
failures that were doing it. If the power interuption is about 1 sec,
that seemed to do it. Shorter or longer ones didn't seem to effect it.
Have had no problems since I put a UPS on it.

I don't think that's it. I have had lots of power interruptions
with the computer that used to hold the replacement drive, and
there were never any hardware problems associated with that.

 

On 14 Sep 2003 04:12:05 GMT, JURB6006 <jurb6006@aol.com> wrote:

....

The problem is that the thing knows it lost power. Basically it shouldn't screw
anything up, and unless it's spiking too high of a voltage, the only thing
dropouts should be able to do is possibly damage the firmware.

Another part of the riddle is that the hard drive hasn't been affected,
and that is hooked to the same power supply. Could a voltage surplus
harm the CD drive and not the hard drive?

Incedentally, if you are having 1 second power interruptions, I hope it isn't a
loose wire in your house. Loose wires cause fires. You might want to look into
that.

The only power interruptions we get around here are from lightning storms.

 

[Ian Molton]

On Mon, 15 Sep 2003 22:30:39 +0000 (UTC)
alicec@news.generic.com () wrote:

I don't think that's it. I have had lots of power interruptions
with the computer that used to hold the replacement drive, and
there were never any hardware problems associated with that.

I had two Quantum fireballs live up to their name (well, they both went BANG, one blowing the casing from its motor controller)

the PSU was interrupted about 4 time sin 1 second. Boom.

the Seagate SCSI in the same box lived to tell the tale because it wasnt stupid enough to try to spin up 4 times a second...

--
Spyros lair: http://www.mnementh.co.uk/ |||| Maintainer: arm26 linux

Do not meddle in the affairs of Dragons, for you are tasty and good with ketchup.

 

[Ian Molton]

On Mon, 15 Sep 2003 22:30:39 +0000 (UTC)
alicec@news.generic.com () wrote:

I don't think that's it. I have had lots of power interruptions
with the computer that used to hold the replacement drive, and
there were never any hardware problems associated with that.

I had two Quantum fireballs live up to their name (well, they both went BANG, one blowing the casing from its motor controller)

the PSU was interrupted about 4 time sin 1 second. Boom.

the Seagate SCSI in the same box lived to tell the tale because it wasnt stupid enough to try to spin up 4 times a second...

--
Spyros lair: http://www.mnementh.co.uk/ |||| Maintainer: arm26 linux

Do not meddle in the affairs of Dragons, for you are tasty and good with ketchup.

 

[Clifton T. Sharp Jr.]

alicec@news.generic.com wrote:

I then removed this drive, and replaced it with another one that I
had in storage for a few months, and that was working when it was
taken out of its PC. This drive worked for a few days, and then
started giving the "drive not ready" error.

You had two, old, used, CD-ROM drives go bad in a short period of time.
You're thinking the PC is to blame because each drive was hooked to that
PC when it died.

I'm thinking coincidence.

--
"Here, Outlook Express, run this program." "Okay, stranger."

 

[James Sweet]

"Clifton T. Sharp Jr." <clifto@clifto.com> wrote in message
news:3F66982A.19D59D21@clifto.com...

alicec@news.generic.com wrote:
I then removed this drive, and replaced it with another one that I
had in storage for a few months, and that was working when it was
taken out of its PC. This drive worked for a few days, and then
started giving the "drive not ready" error.

You had two, old, used, CD-ROM drives go bad in a short period of time.
You're thinking the PC is to blame because each drive was hooked to that
PC when it died.

I'm thinking coincidence.

--
"Here, Outlook Express, run this program." "Okay, stranger."

Yeah they fail quite often, could also be cigarette smoke, haze from a fog
machine, and dust from blowing things off with compressed air, I've seen all
of these kill CD drives fairly quickly.

 

[Ian Molton]

On Tue, 16 Sep 2003 06:03:12 GMT
"James Sweet" <jamessweet@hotmail.com> wrote:

Yeah they fail quite often, could also be cigarette smoke, haze from a fog
machine, and dust from blowing things off with compressed air, I've seen all
of these kill CD drives fairly quickly.

Also, PC PSUs blow *OUT* which tends to suck all manner of shite into every other opening in the case - including the PSU, floppy, case holes, zip100, and - you got it... CDROMs ;-)

--
Spyros lair: http://www.mnementh.co.uk/ |||| Maintainer: arm26 linux

Do not meddle in the affairs of Dragons, for you are tasty and good with ketchup.

 

[Ian Molton]

On Thu, 18 Sep 2003 22:00:53 +0000 (UTC)
alicec@news.generic.com () wrote:

When I got the machine, the power supply fan was completely seized up,
and I replaced it. This may have damaged the power supply, and the
damaged PS could be damaging the CD drive. On the other hand
the fan was replaced before I put the newer CD drive into the
machine.

If the PSU fan was gone, its probably because it spent a lot of its life
sucking large amounts of dust into every hole in the machine...

Does the damaged power supply theory sound plausible?

Not really.


--
Spyros lair: http://www.mnementh.co.uk/ |||| Maintainer: arm26 linux

Do not meddle in the affairs of Dragons, for you are tasty and good with
ketchup.

 

On Tue, 16 Sep 2003 06:03:12 GMT, James Sweet <jamessweet@hotmail.com> wrote:

"Clifton T. Sharp Jr." <clifto@clifto.com> wrote in message
news:3F66982A.19D59D21@clifto.com...
You had two, old, used, CD-ROM drives go bad in a short period of time.
You're thinking the PC is to blame because each drive was hooked to that
PC when it died.

I'm thinking coincidence.

Possible, but I'm reluctant to put a new drive in that system on the
off chance that it won't break too.

Yeah they fail quite often, could also be cigarette smoke, haze from a fog
machine, and dust from blowing things off with compressed air, I've seen all
of these kill CD drives fairly quickly.

None of which apply to my machine's environment.

 

On Tue, 16 Sep 2003 15:28:42 +0100, Ian Molton <spyro@f2s.com> wrote:

Also, PC PSUs blow *OUT* which tends to suck all manner of shite into every other opening in the case - including the PSU, floppy, case holes, zip100, and - you got it... CDROMs ;-)

When I got the machine, the power supply fan was completely seized up,
and I replaced it. This may have damaged the power supply, and the
damaged PS could be damaging the CD drive. On the other hand
the fan was replaced before I put the newer CD drive into the
machine.

Does the damaged power supply theory sound plausible?

 

On Mon, 15 Sep 2003 19:10:46 -0500, jakdedert <jdedert@bellsouth.net> wrote:

I've not followed this thread sequentially, but I just realized the only the
removable media drives are involved.

Has anyone looked into the possibility of simple *dirt* in the drives? Any
other environmental, as opposed to electrical issues?

I opened the unit when I got it to clean it out, and found it
remarkably dust-free inside. I suppose dirt could be the issue.
How does one go about cleaning the inside of a CD drive? The last
time I tried to open one, I couldn't even get the case open.

 

[James Sweet]

I opened the unit when I got it to clean it out, and found it
remarkably dust-free inside. I suppose dirt could be the issue.
How does one go about cleaning the inside of a CD drive? The last
time I tried to open one, I couldn't even get the case open.

Generally you don't, even a fast drive is under $30 these days and you can
get a 52x burner even for under $50, they're disposeable, occasionally have
a few motors and LED's worth salvaging though.

 

[Sam Goldwasser]

"James Sweet" <jamessweet@hotmail.com> writes:

I opened the unit when I got it to clean it out, and found it
remarkably dust-free inside. I suppose dirt could be the issue.
How does one go about cleaning the inside of a CD drive? The last
time I tried to open one, I couldn't even get the case open.

Most of the time it is 4 screws and maybe a plastic catch.

Generally you don't, even a fast drive is under $30 these days and you can
get a 52x burner even for under $50, they're disposeable, occasionally have
a few motors and LED's worth salvaging though.

Well, I still believe cleaning and checking for obvious mechanical problems
would be worth doing. It's 10 minutes work.

However, you have spent a lot of time on this newsgroup on what may be a
wild goose chase. With the crappy construction of cheap CDROM drives, two
failing could very well be a coincidence. It really is highly unlikely
that anything could be killing the CDROMs that hasn't also affected other
parts of the system.

--- sam | Sci.Electronics.Repair FAQ Home Page: http://www.repairfaq.org/
Repair | Main Table of Contents: http://www.repairfaq.org/REPAIR/
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| Mirror Site Info: http://www.repairfaq.org/REPAIR/F_mirror.html

Important: The email address in this message header may no longer work. To
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